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Brazilian GOL And American Airlines Codeshare  
User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5374 times:

Panrotas website www.panrotas.com.br is saying American Airlines and GOL will announce an alliance this week. There is going to be code-share and frequent flyer partnership.

[Edited 2009-07-06 13:45:14]


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44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 10003 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5323 times:

Interesting, is it confirmed by AA and G3 themselves because as far as I know G3 also has a codeshare with KL. This would mean that G3 will have links to the Oneworld and SkyTeam Alliances.

A388


User currently offline4EVERVARIG From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5155 times:



Quoting A388 (Reply 1):
Interesting, is it confirmed by AA and G3 themselves because as far as I know G3 also has a codeshare with KL. This would mean that G3 will have links to the Oneworld and SkyTeam Alliances.

Yes G3/RG announced agreements with KL/AF a few months ago a partnership up to distribute KL/AF passengers through G3/RG network and to allow ticketing. Only recently they agreed to share and accept each others' miles. Same with AA. When they announced limited cooperation last year, they would not honor each others' miles, but passengers could get tickets for G3/RG destinations from AA systems. It appears that the AA - G3/RG relationship has grown to allow exchange of miles.

Maybe this is the first step for G3/RG to study and test the waters for international expansion.


User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5011 times:



Quoting A388 (Reply 1):
Interesting, is it confirmed by AA and G3 themselves because as far as I know G3 also has a codeshare with KL. This would mean that G3 will have links to the Oneworld and SkyTeam Alliances.

I am surprised too. I always thought GOL would end up partnering with Delta.

It will get interesting if GOL uses 737s to feed passengers from secondary destinations in Brazil through MAO and BEL into Miami.



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User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3736 posts, RR: 19
Reply 4, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4960 times:



Quoting Incitatus (Reply 3):

I am surprised too. I always thought GOL would end up partnering with Delta.

I'm not that surprised. G3 wants to mantain its current structure, but both alliances would impose requirements G3 is neither willing nor able to accept. So, G3 is only mimicking what JJ once did, when they wanted to browse which alliance would fit them best. G3 will be the whore of the alliances until it gets the upper hand on the situation, when G3 is needed more than G3 needs an alliance.


User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 10003 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4952 times:



Quoting C010T3 (Reply 4):
So, G3 is only mimicking what JJ once did, when they wanted to browse which alliance would fit them best.

More airlines have done this in the past, so it is a good thing.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 4):
G3 will be the whore of the alliances until it gets the upper hand on the situation, when G3 is needed more than G3 needs an alliance.

With that logic every airline in an alliance is a whore, they need each other. Again, nothing wrong there.

A388


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33280 posts, RR: 71
Reply 6, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4934 times:

On AA's site:

http://www.aa.com/aa/viewPromotionDe...ntRepository&repositoryId=16122442



a.
User currently offlineJJ8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4917 times:

Thanks for the good news. Will be very good to earn miles for AAdvantage when flying G3.


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User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4875 times:

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 4):
G3 will be the whore of the alliances until it gets the upper hand on the situation, when G3 is needed more than G3 needs an alliance.

How about we just say G3 is "speed dating"? It sounds just so much more acceptable.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
On AA's site:

http://www.aa.com/aa/viewPromotionDe...22442

English version:

http://www.aa.com/aa/i18nForward.do?...dvantage/partners/airlines/GOL.jsp

[Edited 2009-07-07 15:46:53]


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User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3736 posts, RR: 19
Reply 9, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4841 times:



Quoting Incitatus (Reply 8):

How about we just say G3 is "speed dating"? It sounds just so much more acceptable.

Because I was comparing them with JJ, when AF and AA were led on until they both got dumped for UA and LH. At least G3 will have to choose between both of them.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4830 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Good for both airlines. AA found the best alternative to TAM, and GOL got a partner that can help to increase it's demand thru the two main AA destinations in Brazil.


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7808 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4786 times:

Excellent news!

I cant wait to try them out on my trip to POA in October. Ill be able to fly DFW-GRU-POA and get Aadvantage miles!



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11973 posts, RR: 62
Reply 12, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4777 times:

Smart move.

AA already serves virtually all of the largest and most important business and leisure markets in Brazil nonstop from Miami and other U.S. gateways, and this will give them feed to all the remaining big internal markets within Brazil.

It will be interesting to see where AA applies to fly to in Brazil next: Brasilia, Fortaleza, Natal, Manaus, Belem?


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4734 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

One interesting point, AFAIK G3 was in negotiations with DL and now come with such deal with AA !

Quoting Commavia (Reply 12):
It will be interesting to see where AA applies to fly to in Brazil next: Brasilia, Fortaleza, Natal, Manaus, Belem?

BSB would be the most interesting destination, as its the 4th largest GOL operation just behind GIG, GRU and CGH.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 14, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4671 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 13):
BSB would be the most interesting destination, as its the 4th largest GOL operation just behind GIG, GRU and CGH.

We could also see AA adding no destinations and G3 adding BSB-MAO-MIA and FOR-BEL-MIA.

Or if AA does add more cities in Brazil, then G3 could go for secondary tags a few times a week like NAT-BEL-MIA, MCZ-BEL-MIA, GYN-MAO-MIA, CGB-MAO-MIA.



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User currently offlineJJ8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4623 times:



Quoting Incitatus (Reply 14):
We could also see AA adding no destinations and G3 adding BSB-MAO-MIA and FOR-BEL-MIA.

Or if AA does add more cities in Brazil, then G3 could go for secondary tags a few times a week like NAT-BEL-MIA, MCZ-BEL-MIA, GYN-MAO-MIA, CGB-MAO-MIA.

I would love to see G3 expanding internationally, but I don't think this is likelly to happen. I think this services you mentioned would be very low-yielding considering G3's product, and I am not sure if they could get interesting loads. IMO, if they wanted to expand internationally they should develop a totally new and competitive product, including premium product and widebodies for long-haul. Right now, I think their best option is to use AA's Brazil-USA network with code-share, and in medium-term they could develop their own.



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User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4611 times:



Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 15):
I would love to see G3 expanding internationally, but I don't think this is likelly to happen. I think this services you mentioned would be very low-yielding considering G3's product, and I am not sure if they could get interesting loads. IMO, if they wanted to expand internationally they should develop a totally new and competitive product, including premium product and widebodies for long-haul. Right now, I think their best option is to use AA's Brazil-USA network with code-share, and in medium-term they could develop their own.

Yes, something like MCZ-BEL-MIA is a long shot and would likely lose buckets of money. But I don't think the solution is to invest (buckets of) money on a premium product or widebodies. Adding an additional equipment type to GOL will come at considerable cost for planning and for equipment, maintenance and spares to support them. Besides that, outside GRU and GIG, there is no critical mass in Brazil for premium service. If GOL is to serve the US, it should go for the least cost option - service with the current fleet from cities within MIA's range. And if they add MAO-MIA and it does well, they don't need a wide-body. They can do it twice a day and on top of it put a peak season MAO-MCO.

I think the days of TAM flying MAO-MIA are numbered.



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User currently offlineJJ8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4566 times:



Quoting Incitatus (Reply 16):
Yes, something like MCZ-BEL-MIA is a long shot and would likely lose buckets of money. But I don't think the solution is to invest (buckets of) money on a premium product or widebodies. Adding an additional equipment type to GOL will come at considerable cost for planning and for equipment, maintenance and spares to support them. Besides that, outside GRU and GIG, there is no critical mass in Brazil for premium service. If GOL is to serve the US, it should go for the least cost option - service with the current fleet from cities within MIA's range. And if they add MAO-MIA and it does well, they don't need a wide-body. They can do it twice a day and on top of it put a peak season MAO-MCO.

I agree with you that as for now investing hard in international expansion isn't a smart option for G3, and surely won't happen in short term. However, even considering they can do what you said with their current fleet, I don't think they will succeed on it right now, not only becouse of their current poor international product, but also becouse we still have AA, DL and JJ playing around there.

I thing G3 should focus on domestic market, and use AA coda-share to offer international options to their passengers. Than in 2-3 years time, they can think of restarting a (well-planned) international expansion.

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 16):
I think the days of TAM flying MAO-MIA are numbered.

I'm curious and also optimistic about how they will do on the route (in terms of loads and profits) if they change it into two-class A320.



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User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33280 posts, RR: 71
Reply 18, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4556 times:



Quoting Incitatus (Reply 16):
I think the days of TAM flying MAO-MIA are numbered.

Definitley not. The days fo the 763 on the route might be numbered, however.

Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 17):
I'm curious and also optimistic about how they will do on the route (in terms of loads and profits) if they change it into two-class A320.

Well, when it was an A320, it did very, very well.



a.
User currently offlineJJ8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4550 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 18):

Well, when it was an A320, it did very, very well.

I'd say the reason for them to have upgraded this route was to increase the use of their B763 fleet used on the GIG-JFK route. As you mentioned, the A320 fits it much better.



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User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33280 posts, RR: 71
Reply 20, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4547 times:



Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 19):
I'd say the reason for them to have upgraded this route was to increase the use of their B763 fleet used on the GIG-JFK route. As you mentioned, the A320 fits it much better.

What TAM should do, IMO, is re-launch MIA-MAO-BEL on an A320, daily, and then fly the 763 on a daylight MIA-FOR/BSB-GIG, on alternate days.



a.
User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4068 posts, RR: 13
Reply 21, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4538 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 18):
Definitley not. The days fo the 763 on the route might be numbered, however.

You are mistaken in this one.

Ultimately either GOL or American will wrestle the route out of TAM's hands. MAO-MIA can't survive on local market only. Even with the A320, TAM relied on FOR/BEL traffic to sustain it, and it had pretty good interline options at MIA. If American enters the market, it will have its network beyond Miami, and Brazilian code-share on GOL to sustain it. If GOL enters the market, it will have its own network in Brazil, and codeshare with American beyond MIA. Either way TAM will be left with the weaker network to sustain its service.

Also GOL and TAM at MAO are not "similar". GOL is a much stronger carrier there. If GOL adds MAO-MIA, it will grab a greater share of the local market. JJ's MAO-MIA is a sitting duck.



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User currently offlineJJ8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4536 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 20):

What TAM should do, IMO, is re-launch MIA-MAO-BEL on an A320, daily, and then fly the 763 on a daylight MIA-FOR/BSB-GIG, on alternate days.

BEL tag to MAO-MIA is definetly smart. Regarding GIG-MIA, I don't think they should add a stop on their non-stop service. They would lose a lot for AA. If they kept all 3 B763s, they could run GIG-MIA daily red-eye non stop, and use the 3rd one in 4x weekly GIG-GRU-CCS and 3x weekly, say, BSB-FOR-MIA...



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User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33280 posts, RR: 71
Reply 23, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4523 times:



Quoting JJ8080 (Reply 22):
don't think they should add a stop on their non-stop service

They should not. They should have 2x daily MIA-GIG, a non-stop redeye and a daylight via FOR/BSB, IMO.



a.
User currently offlineJJ8080 From Brazil, joined Aug 2008, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4506 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 23):
They should not. They should have 2x daily MIA-GIG, a non-stop redeye and a daylight via FOR/BSB, IMO

Ok I got you. In this case they would need 3 planes just for this two routes, unabling non-stop GRU-CCS (if we are talking about 767s)....



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25 LipeGIG : G3 has good conditions now to establish a BSB-MAO-MIA for example. AA could provide connections and with a better schedule, G3 product will be even b
26 JJ8080 : I don't think G3 will be succesfull in any new international route without a considerable product improve...
27 LipeGIG : The 738 in a RG set up, is a very good player for a MAO-MIA flight. The premium demand for MAO-MIA is not strong, but with BSB and even better, with
28 JJ8080 : It would in terms of seat pitch, but IFE, food service and other in-flight amenities would still be very poor and far from DL and JJ, even considerin
29 A388 : How important is having a good inflight product on a route such as MAO-MIA or BSB-MIA? Just curious. A388
30 LipeGIG : JJ does not offer IFE and G3 could just introduce a good food service in the route. DL goes to ATL but can't attract connections on Brazilian side so
31 Incitatus : It is all about price. You or anybody else in a.net may be typical frequent travelers but are not typical travelers. In 2008 Brazilian airports saw 1
32 PPVRA : Correct, both in the US and Brazilian sides. Most Brazilians in the US, legal ones, still can't afford $1000 fares to visit grandma back home, much l
33 JJ8080 : Agree that non-stop with any product is better than a long connection in GRU/GIG, however if there is competition it's completely different. I presum
34 LipeGIG : Agree, but you can compete in price and with better connectivity Yes they have IFE which includes radio. Regard the service i don't think it's a prob
35 JJ8080 : Do you know if their 737s have ovens? Sorry, I didn't got you... How/Why is G3 different from JJ here? This is true, however, as I mentioned above, I
36 Incitatus : JJ has two international services at MAO to feed: MIA and CCS. If I remember right, someone once said MAO generates pretty much no traffic to CCS. Th
37 C010T3 : It's not anymore since last August. Perhaps JJ carries cargo from MAO to CCS, so it was decided to keep the flight as it is.
38 Incitatus : If so it is more probable that the A320 won't do GRU-CCS with a satisfactory load.
39 PPVRA : Right now you're right, but when the economy rebounds it could easily go up again unless we've got some kind of major policy change.
40 LipeGIG : Agree. Exactly, many times TAM boards 1 pax only at MAO. The problem is that, seems to be a lot but it's too limited. MAO can't be a good hub because
41 JJ8080 : Checking the numbers you brought us there is no doubt G3 is bigger in MAO, however, what I am trying to say is that I don't think that if they had mo
42 LipeGIG : Correct, the only places MAO can expect to get some feed are BVB, PVH, CGB, BSB and BEL
43 JJ8080 : I'd only add some smaller cities on MAO surroundings, like Santarem, Marabá, Tefé, etc.. Surely, with small number of pax.
44 LipeGIG : You right but considering their size i doubt they can make a big difference. BEL and BSB are the possible important feed markets. RBR, BVB, PVH and o
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