1 GhYHZ: Here's a bit more on the story: http://thechronicleherald.ca/Front/1131164.html And just heard on the news, United will take another look at his claim
2 Smcmac32msn: Sounds like its about time... Its just funny how airlines can't accept responsibility and my question is... where were the ramp supervisors???
3 DescendVia: This is good BUT by the way he presents his timeline, it looks like UAX were the ones handling his guitar at the time.
4 Cessna172RG: United breaks lots of things, especially those bullet-proof japanese suitcases. They've busted three of mine and that's why I refuse to fly them.
5 Smcmac32msn: Shouldn't matter. UA should be held responsible for all companies flying under their flags. The ticket has UA's name on it holding them responsible a
6 Atomsareenough: "United Express breaks guitars" doesn't quite have the same ring to it, though. Even if UA doesn't do the ground handling for UAX at ORD, if they con
7 Tharanga: Hate to say it, but you have to look in the contract of carriage to see if they are legally responsible. I don't know that they are. That said, that
8 Thestooges: At the end of day, you should ALWAYS bring your musical instrument as a carry-on if you can. I understand that in this guys situation that he had more
9 SOBHI51: Great song, hope he get paid for the damage. Come on UA do the right thing.
10 DescendVia: Still if its the case, they (UA) could have some sort of slander case against the man. You know their are laywers out there that would make that argu
11 EwRkId: Of course they will, Somone told me that the airlines will do everything they can to stay out of the media
12 Av8orwalk: 131,000 views in a day? This video is going to be HUGE. I guess United had no idea this video was REALLY going to be produced. If they did, I'm sure $
13 Doug_or: I'm almost positive all UAL and UAX ground handling in ORD is done by mainline... and it shows. And they would almost certainly lose. He bought a tic
14 Goldenshield: If this was witnessed at ORD, then it's UA mainline employees that were at fault. The regional was only providing the lift.
15 Tharanga: It's not a matter of how the employees want to be grouped. It's a question of where the front-line legal liability lies. Outsourcing or contracting o
17 Fsnuffer: The story has now been posted on the front page of the Consumerist site. It is too late for United, the cat is out of the bag on this one http://consu
18 F9Animal: Oh man, that is a great video! I am in no way a country fan, but this one has to be one of the best country videos out there. I say, UA, give him the
19 Manfredj: Awesome! This just proves that all is not lost in the war of big business and "small time" customers. It doesn't mean that big business is bad, it jus
20 ACKattack: The possibly bigger issue for UA is that if this song becomes popular, it will probably be played at many live concerts, continuing the telling of th
21 DescendVia: No..... UAX has their own employees. Mainline will usually only handle UAX at non-hub stations like DTW or GRR.
22 Falcon84: Hard to do if it's on an RJ, unless they're small instruments. I've seen people with cello's and tuba's buy extra seats for the instruments. In any e
23 United1: UA Mainline handles UAX ground operations at ORD....
24 Spacecadet: My 2 cents: 1. He should have bought a flight case. This is why they exist. They're practically bomb-proof and bullet-proof. You don't put a regular g
25 Silentbob: And the airline would get tons of negative publicity every step of the way. The cost would be far worse than just paying the guy off.
26 Tharanga: that's an interesting legal question. I don't have the time to carefully read the contract of carriage or case law precedent to see how that would wo
27 Rampart: Except to get satisfaction, you need to be a really good songwriter with a fanbase. Sad. Do you know that he didn't do this? And even if he did... -R
28 Ridgid727: And do we kow if the UA agent at his originating city had him sign a "limited release" waiver, since a guitar case is not a regular piece of luggage.
29 Atomsareenough: The song and video were just featured on CNN... I'm sure this will get at least a million hits over the next week or so.
30 T5towbar: That's true. If he was flying on UAX, he was on one of those RJ's where you would have to gate check the item, and the ramp crew would have to handle
31 Fsnuffer: Lol This YouTube video is recommended when you watch the original musical video. Read the comments http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8nO-w9Iz2Y&NR=1
32 Type-Rated: I think we all should bombard UA e-mail addresses with this video, just to rub their noses in it. I imagine some UA employees are actually laughing at
33 777fan: One detail that hasn't been mentioned yet, but is mentioned in this Chicago Tribune article on the subject: http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...rs-
34 Simpilot459: Are you talking about the hard plastic ones? When I worked baggage, those were the worst. they don't stack well and they slide easily, which causes t
35 Tharanga: " target=_blank>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8nO-...&NR=1 funny stuff. you can see the cutoff when the guitar story broke. if youtube commenters m
36 Spacecadet: Yes, I do. And do you know how I know? Because they broke his guitar. Guitars in flight cases don't break. Have you ever seen one? This is a flight c
37 Fsnuffer: According to this guy he has said there was going to be three videos. The first is done and the second is close to wrap and he said the third is upto
38 IAirAllie: I think UAL would be stupid to pay him anything at this point. The damage has been done. If they pay out its sends a message that they will pay out t
39 Aircellist: I really whish there was at least ONE airline that would take the time to sit down with musicians, listen to how we would like our instruments be take
40 Aeropix: NOT Original at all... In the 1984 Album "One Million Lawyers and Other Disasters" comedy folk singer TOM PAXTON sang a rousing complaint about Republ
41 Tharanga: " target=_blank>http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...story According to that article, somebody at UAL said they'd use the music video internally as
42 Thestooges: " target=_blank>http://www.prostagegear.com/images/b...9.jpg Great explanation. So really, at the end of the day he should have been traveling with a
43 IRelayer: Very true. After all, it is SkyWest doing business as United Express. This would imply to me United is responsible for all conduct of SkyWest and the
44 AndyinPIT: What exaclty is that supposed to mean?
45 Atomsareenough: Sure, but if you want to get all "good customer service", they should have taken care of this guy instead of giving him the runaround and ticking him
46 NIKV69: This is what makes me laugh, the cost of replacing the guitar was nothing compared to the bad press UA is getting. Another bonehead move.
47 Pellegrine: This is also on HuffPo about midway down the front page on 8 July. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/
48 HarrisonRuess: It's nearly at a 1/4 million views now. While I entirely agree that shift inevitably happens with luggage; things get bumped about, etc - this story
49 Theredbaron: I have 2 Ibanez Jem guitars one cost 2300 and the other 3400, both come with professional hard cases. Well I brought them from California on the overh
50 IAirAllie: No one is suggesting a bomb proof case. Merely a suitable TRAVEL case for when he TRAVELs. That is called packing your belongings responsibly. It is
51 Speedbird128: As an air traffic controller in a tower which was alongside the ramp, i have witness willful and intentional abuse and destruction of people luggage
52 IAirAllie: I said WE not all baggage handlers. I never witnessed abusive behavior on my ramp. I do think some people see normal handling and freak out.
53 Goldenshield: As stated before, even IF SkyWest was flying the flight, it was NOT that company's rampers that caused the issue, because they don't exist at ORD. It
54 JohnMKE: Proves that the Union United Ramp Employees that are getting paid $15.00 plus an hour are really makeing there pay....United shoud contract thier gro
55 Fxramper: Never heard of this guy or his 'band'. Hitting golf balls. UA can furlough a few more FA and pay him for his guitars.
56 Ac888yow: Good on him for fighting back. It's quite a catchy tune and the video is very well produced. You have now, as have hundreds of thousands (inevitably m
57 AndyinPIT: its, making their pay... And how do you know that they had 7 years with the company? (thats how long it takes to make $15 an hour with United) How di
58 Thestooges: But there are idiots out there everywhere, its more a case of not entrusting your valuable items with anyone else but yourself and taking the necessa
59 Joeljack: I fly United a ton and have NEVER has any baggage issue at DEN. 100% arrival rate...undamaged. My issues with bags not making my flights etc have alwa
60 SeeTheWorld: To all you that suggest he should have packed it better ... that may be so. But the airline should never accept checked luggage that is not OBVIOUSLY
61 Fxramper: I don't fly them a lot, but have checked golf clubs (SFO-HNL/OGG) before and never had an issue. Hope there was no malicious intent with the accusati
62 JohnMKE: I have 11 years in the industry, and 8 of them have been working on the ramp or supervising a ramp. At no time did I indicate that I thought ramp emp
63 Jawake: On the website he has promised 3 songs..... To date I have written “United: Song 1” and “United: Song 2” and I’m proud to now release the f
64 Atomsareenough: No one is disagreeing with you that he should have had a flight case. But just because he didn't have one, it doesn't mean he deserved to get his gui
65 United1: Union or non-Union on United, Southwest, American or any other airline on the planet baggage handlers break things mostly by accident but sometimes w
66 Thestooges: After re-reading the Chicago Tribune story . . . even though there were no UA agents to report the damage to when he arrived in OMA, would it have bee
67 Tharanga: They can accept it, but they should inform the passenger of the terms of liability up front, so there is no confusion later. For whatever it's worth,
68 SeeTheWorld: Except all of that doesn't matter. The reason that it has blown up in United's face is because they subsequently handled the issue poorly. We have no
69 Speedbird128: Well when normal behaviour results in damage (to either the suitcase or its contents), then perhaps 'normal' needs to be reviewed...
70 Thestooges: No that was not his fault, but it was his fault that he didn't return to the airport the following day to report it within the 24 hour period stated
71 Tharanga: Is it reasonable to assume that everybody has the opportunity to do so? You don't know if he's busy the whole next day; you don't know if he's got to
72 Thestooges: Yes it does make life difficult, but if he wants to be re-imbursed, then that is what he has to do !!! And how hard is it make one phone call, or may
73 Tharanga: If you set some restriction on the customer, you have to give them a reasonable chance at fulfilling it. I think keeping the claims desk manned while
74 ChrisNH: If he didn't 'name names' of the baggage handlers, who's the plaintiff? The only name that I saw in the video was some customer service woman. If she
75 Rampart: You have now! Different paths to fame. I like the music, as it turns out. Or, perhaps, avoid the extreme you suggest, encourage better baggage handli
76 SeeTheWorld: LOL - I don't even think United would agree with that statement at this point.
77 Thestooges: Well I don't think it would have taken anywhere near a whole day. If he had tried to call, I'm sure it wouldn't have been that straightforward, it mi
78 SeeTheWorld: Accidents do happen and customers understand that. We're saying the same things - i.e. it was the failure of UA's initial response that has caused th
79 Thestooges: Well no, we're not saying the same things. I agree that part of the blame should be placed on the airline for not having a CSA at OMA when the custom
80 Thestooges: Actually from reading the article yet a 3rd time it does clearly say that he did not attempt to find a CSA agent in OMA to make a claim for his damage
81 FlyDeltaJets87: I'm sorry, but if I'm now paying $25 each way per bag, they better handle my bags with care. That I agree with. This I do not. That's not the respons
82 IAirAllie: This normal behavior doesn't cause damage to properly packed items. It only damages items that aren't properly packed like this guitar. 1) I find it
83 Silver1SWA: !!! Exactly right! What do you mean? Do you expect ramp supervisors to be present at all times with clip-boards in hand observing every single action
84 Richierich: Understatement of the day!! I will give the benefit of the doubt and say there is another side to this story that we are not hearing (UA's) but it do
85 Tharanga: Since airlines love charging fees, I suggest a $15 "We'll be responsible for any damage to your guitar" fee. Actually, is it possible to buy insurance
86 Hestaman: ...For those who standby their carrier's CoC... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKdIKP1arF0 Enjoy!
87 Wn700driver: That's because they don't have a side. They destroyed property, for a fee no less, and botched a few opportunities to recover. Typical United. Anyway
88 Thestooges: There is no way to prove that they did in fact destroy any property. Like I've said before in my above post, the damage to the guitar could very well
89 Jolau1701: Why assume UAX? If it was any UAX aircraft except for the EMB170s, it would have been hard for him to see anything plane-side since the cargo pit is i
90 United1: uhem WN isn't much better.....there's a reason why I won't check a bag with them on any flight....Lets just say it involved crushing and my bag and t
91 PlanesNTrains: To be fair, I doubt anyone will choose to fly United specifically because of this incident, though a few might choose not to. But he doesn't need to
92 Iairallie: Actually the facts are on United´s side because mr. Guitar chose not to report it before leaving the airport. The excuse that no one was available i
93 Vfw614: It appears that most of you completely fail to understand that the main story is not about United breaking the guitar, but about the saga that came af
94 Thestooges: But thats funny, because the song is NOT entitled "United Has Bad Customer Service", but in fact it's called, "United Breaks Guitars". And as I and m
95 Arrow: That will help. The story is already a runaway success. If United sues for slander, how many other disgruntled United passengers will suddenly start
96 Vfw614: The story that United broke a guitar is non-news. What makes the story interesting is what happened AFTER United broke the guitar. If United had just
97 Thestooges: But if he had entitled his song "United Has Bad Customer Service", then we wouldn't be listening to it either. The point I'm trying to make is that t
98 LAXintl: United's official response this morning: Online Video Strikes a Chord With Us In the Internet era, our customers continue to find creative ways of rea
99 Vfw614: The problem is that United is now losing customers because not those customers, but someone else has been given - among other things - parrot talk. U
100 Silentbob: Anyone that checks a guitar that isn't in an ATA certified case is an idiot. I learned that long before I started working in the industry.
101 PlanesNTrains: 1. IMHO, it doesn't matter what United did at this point, they need to handle it and make it go away. You aren't going to be able to convince many pe
102 Atomsareenough: Dude, it's a song, not a police report or a Supreme Court decision. Sure, he might have taken a hammer to his own guitar for all we know. He could ha
103 Wn700driver: Fair enough. The name reffers to a type of tool, not an LCC with a case of personality cultism. . . But I understand the confusion. Yes, he will. He
104 Thestooges: I definitely agree with this, whether its United's fault or not, it looks like they will definitely have to suffer for it to some extent. It's not ju
105 Atomsareenough: Well, you were quibbling with the facts and evidence presented in the song, and saying that since he couldn't "prove" that UA broke his guitar, he wa
106 Silver1SWA: Of course it's believable. All sensational stories are! That's the idea, grab the public's attention. And the fact that "throwing" bags can be consid
107 Vfw614: Which is totally irrelevant as we are not talking about proving something in a court of law, but about customer service. For example, this "report wi
108 Thestooges: Well the whole reason I even brought up the name of the song was to respond to this statement . . . So I said in my response . . . that if this was t
109 Lufti5525: I fly to asia twice a year. When I started I flew UA. When I had a question, I emailed them three times. No Answer. I wrote them. No answer. I am/was
110 LAXintl: Dave Carroll had a 5 minute interview this morning on CBS. http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5149361n Certainly getting lots of press. I'm sure m
111 Crewchief: I'm completely bewildered by most comments on this thread. The video doesn't have 1.4 million views (and counting) because people think United broke a
112 Thestooges: Well, seeing that I've clinked on his video 3 times myself, I therefor make up 3 out of those 1.4. million viewers. And it does matter to me that his
113 Silver1SWA: My comment was completely relevant to the post I was quoting! I'm not trying to legally prove anything. I'm just giving a rampers opinion on the matt
114 Vfw614: The guy has now published a statement on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_X-Qoh__mw Amongst other things, he says that he is not after any mo
115 Richierich: Nail on the head. You and several other people on here get it, but some posters are apparently bent out of shape about the guitar being broken. Of co
116 Tonyban: HaHaHa.....I don't really listen to country music but this one is good. I'm glad United is getting negative publicity. Grumpy old airline !!!
117 Enginebird: The only problem there is that the song will never go away, no matter how much UA pays for it. This is the digital age and once it's out there it's o
118 Thestooges: Once again, I was responding to a comment made by another poster saying that every single one of the 1.4 million people who had clicked on the video
119 Atomsareenough: Nope, it makes perfect sense to me. Seeing as how they were arriving into ORD, and not departing, his guitar would likely have been sitting on the ba
120 N104UA: I finally saw this video and even though I understand that he is upset, he should not portray ramp agents in that manner, many of my friends and famil
121 F35: YouTube doesn't count multiple views by an individual user, they count views by how many different users, computers have watched their videos. You ca
122 KBOS: As a person who loves to fly United (Ch 9), I think they did an excellent job with this explanation. Pitty this will get nowhere near the exposure th
123 Thestooges: Lets go back to what I said in my last post, where I said there is no conclusive evidence that United broke his guitar and that that this was the mai
124 Thestooges: OK, so I stand corrected, I therefor make up only 1 out of those 1.4 million viewers !!!!
125 IAirAllie: A passenger also does not want to arrive to their destination without a bag because it missconnected because the rampers were slow in offloading/load
126 Silver1SWA: Exactly right. I could not have said it any better. It is the responsibility of the airline to get the customers' bags from point A to point B on tim
127 Atomsareenough: I'm not determined. I don't know exactly what happened, as I wasn't there. Based on what we DO know, however, it seems EXTREMELY plausible, and in fa
128 Tharanga: the internet has a short attention span. fads come and go. if united can make this go away, nobody will remember this time next year. and i sure as h
129 Hestaman: The best part of the video are the responses... Here are a few from the last few minutes: United is such a terrible company that if someone were to te
130 IAirAllie: Actually they are. They refused the claim because they don't believe they are responsible. Even their press release does not accept responsiblity for
131 PlanesNTrains: Good question! I think the way that they were portrayed was light and funny. If you are on the "inside", it might be offensive, but to most of us, it
132 IAirAllie: He says many times in his story that he want's them to pay for the damage. He is only now changing his tune to say he wants the money donated to char
133 PanHAM: it is a hidden damage, you are not supposed to open your bags when you take them off the carousel. In that caee, claiming that he had indirect witnes
134 Vfw614: Further development in this saga: " "United will donate $3,000 to the Thelonious Monk Institute of Jazz for music education for kids," a spokeswoman s
135 PanHAM: well.you have to show sufficient cause that the damage took place while the goods were in )uniteds) custody. After leaving the airport that could hav
136 Vfw614: But it must be said that it is a pure windfall. He could never have imagined that the video would go viral. If you listen to the guy in some intervie
137 Tharanga: They aren't responsible for paying for the guitar. That doesn't mean they think the guitar did not break while under their care.
138 Thestooges: Once again you ARE NOT properly reading my previous posts where I CLEARLY state that I strongly agree with anything you or any poster has said to the
139 PanHAM: yes, I agree that he is a good guy and he makes good music. He certainly deserves the success he has woth the song. It is just amazing to watch how t
140 Vfw614: By the way, within the last hour, the video has passed the 2 million views threshold. Amazing. I am wondering if the song will eventually get some air
141 ChrisNH: He'll end up getting twice as many views of one video in six days than he thought all three videos would get...in a YEAR! He'll crack 2 million this w
142 Thestooges: Yes I agree, this is indeed a perfect ending !!! United did however get a lot of bad press over this, and even though it will be forever debatable as
143 Vfw614: What is particularly noteworthy is that not only 2m viewers have watched the movie by now, but 11.000 (!) have left comments, most of them with bitter
144 Tharanga: Do not over-interpret youtube comments. look at comments left under other videos. these are generally not serious members of society. they'll say anyt
145 Vfw614: I think there is a big difference between people being directed to youtube through news outlets such as CNN, FOX, CBS etc. (who all link to the video)
146 Thestooges: No, I don't think this really has anything to do with Mr. Carrols case, I think it has more to do with the fact that United is very well known for pr
147 Hestaman: And the point many of us are trying to make is that if he took this to court: a) He would have a definitive answer to his plea that same day b) He wo
148 Thestooges: Ok, maybe I'm guilty of not reading other posts properly even though I have accused others of not reading mine properly, but I have not seen any comm
149 Hestaman: My "point" is that it is not about the guitar... all three points above are about CUSTOMER SERVICE. The fact it would take a year to go "higher and h
150 Hestaman: ... After some thought... maybe it is better said that my "point" is that all three statements could have been handled more satisfactorilly through be
151 2175301: I find the story extremely believable because I have experience similar things in my air travels over the years. When arriving late at night (remembe
152 Tharanga: While that's generally true, you'd think he'd have checked right away, since he had specific reason to think there might be a problem. But he didn't;
153 Silver1SWA: But in these personal experiences, did you hear about and see your items being mishandled? Perhaps it's just me, but if I'm traveling and I see my be
154 Thestooges: I would just like to thank you, very, very much for posting that link because I didn't know a detailed version of his story existed like that !!! Thi
155 BOACVC10: The author and writer has updated his video on youtube! Please see his clarification which is posted as a "response" to his original video. He has bee
156 Rightrudder: Pardon if someone already wrote this statement but "Why didn't he buy the guitar a seat?" Also ,the link is on the home page of MSN.
157 PlanesNTrains: I agree 100%. Great video, but the comments are pretty much invalid as a true barometer of how the public really feels. I don't think it's United - t
158 Lymanm: United should quickly record their own video & post as a response on youtube...rampers singing their apologies...something like that! Shows UAL has a
159 AirframeAS: I would pay to see that! Tilton should be the cameo appearance!
161 Bralo20: The song is actually very good, better then expected!
162 Thestooges: I definitely agree with you that it's not just United but definitely all airlines in general. As far as I'm concerned the exact same situation could
163 ChrisNH: For the same reason that you don't buy two houses in the event one burns down. Or two cars in case one crashes. Or...
164 Rightrudder: Shows the power of art and music. I especially liked the funeral procession with the flowers.
165 2175301: Because it's not really practical for all the equipment he was carrying: He was also traveling with a backup guitar as well. So does he buy 2 seats f
166 IAirAllie: It doesn't make it any less rude or insulting.
167 Rightrudder: Insure it then with an "Entertainment Equipment Floaters" insurance policy. Premiums start as low as $250.00 a year with some brokerages.
168 Rampart: Yes, they could hire Carroll and The Sons of Maxwell to pen it for them! Doubt UA would do that, nor do The Sons of Maxwell need it at this moment. Y
169 Bwohlgemuth: If it was something that I felt more comfortable playing and it was my livelihood, you can bet I would buy a good guitar. But I would also most likel
170 Rampart: I believe he did travel with another guitar or two. But this one was probably his favorite. Talk about negative promotion, think of the symphony musi
171 Thestooges: At the end of the day, I think it's really all a matter of opinion, and taste in guitars of course !!! Every guitar has a different sound and every g
172 Rampart: It will sound bad in a refined, well-crafted way. I resemble that remark. -Rampart
173 2175301: I am quite sure that it was in fact insured. In fact, I'm willing to bet that the band has a general insurance policy for all of their equipment. The
174 Ken777: UA now faces a situation where 2.6 Million people have watched the video. Good PR is expensive and bad PR is free. One area where airlines have failed
175 Rightrudder: Very good point. Yet, after getting compensated by his insurance company, subrogation would take effect and the deductible paid towards the claim mos
FrmrCAPCADET From United States, joined May 2008, 616 posts, RR: 0 Reply 176, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4366 times:
I would not be unwilling to fly United ( although I do remember from the 70s that they seemed to lead the way in making Y uncomfortable), but I would assume a crappy seat and service. Which is in part, what the guitar player got. So he was in a position to publicise it, and funny to boot. Poor United. And even funnier, those to are going to such extremes in defending them.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
2175301 From United States, joined May 2007, 627 posts, RR: 0 Reply 177, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4334 times:
Quoting Rightrudder (Reply 182): Very good point. Yet, after getting compensated by his insurance company, subrogation would take effect and the deductible paid towards the claim most certainly would be refunded to him. In my opinion, if he was insured, it would of been much easier to allow the insurance carriers to settle the claim.
I'm not sure you understand how "deductables" work. If the band had a $2000 deductable - then the insurance company would only get involved if the repairs cost more than $2000. The band (Dave) has to pay the first $2000.
It is also likely that the deductable applies per "event" as well.
It is likely that Dave never even bothered to tell the insurance company about the damage if it was under the deductable limit.
Rightrudder From United States, joined Aug 2008, 70 posts, RR: 0 Reply 178, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 4274 times:
Quoting FrmrCAPCADET (Reply 183): I'm not sure you understand how "deductables" work. If the band had a $2000 deductable - then the insurance company would only get involved if the repairs cost more than $2000. The band (Dave) has to pay the first $2000.
True. Unless the other party is 100% at fault. Then Dave would most certainly get his ded. back.
"Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana".
2175301 From United States, joined May 2007, 627 posts, RR: 0 Reply 181, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4205 times:
Quoting Rightrudder (Reply 188): True. Unless the other party is 100% at fault. Then Dave would most certainly get his ded. back.
Only if the "at fault" party was willing to pay.... United was not willing to pay a cent. Thus, Dave (and anyone else in a similar situation) is out the cost of repairs or replacement up to whatever the deductable is on their insurance policy. While suing is an option - that takes considerable mental energy and time for several years. Not worth it in most cases.
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 189): I know nothing about guitars, but wouldn't be cheaper (given the $2000 deductible) to just buy a brand new one or is that besides the point?
I used "$2000" as an example. I have no idea what the exact deductable is on the Sons of Maxwell band's policy. However, it doesn't make sense to have a low deductable as that leads to a high premium. Just like my car, my home, and other things. I can personally afford the first thousand or two (not saying it would not pinch a bit). I am more worried about major damage or complete loss. I am sure that same is true for the band.
In this case, I would be surprised if a $1200 repair would have been covered by the insurance policy.
Rightrudder From United States, joined Aug 2008, 70 posts, RR: 0 Reply 182, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4092 times:
Quoting 2175301 (Reply 184): Only if the "at fault" party was willing to pay.... United was not willing to pay a cent. Thus, Dave (and anyone else in a similar situation) is out the cost of repairs or replacement up to whatever the deductable is on their insurance policy. While suing is an option - that takes considerable mental energy and time for several years. Not worth it in most cases.
You are missing the point altogether. His own insurance company would compensate him for the damaged equipment provided he met the deductible. Then it would be up to his insurance company to seek a demand on United's insurance which includes the recovery of the deductible back to the insured. It has nothing to do whether or not the "at fault party" is willing to pay.
Quoting 2175301 (Reply 184): I used "$2000" as an example. I have no idea what the exact deductable is on the Sons of Maxwell band's policy. However, it doesn't make sense to have a low deductable as that leads to a high premium. Just like my car, my home, and other things. I can personally afford the first thousand or two (not saying it would not pinch a bit). I am more worried about major damage or complete loss. I am sure that same is true for the band.
Your auto or home is personal lines policy. The band probably has a commercial lines policy.
Quoting 2175301 (Reply 184): In this case, I would be surprised if a $1200 repair would have been covered by the insurance policy.
It would be safe to say, "Entertainment Equipment Floater" insurance would cover it.
"Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana".
2175301 From United States, joined May 2007, 627 posts, RR: 0 Reply 184, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4014 times:
Quoting Rightrudder (Reply 185): Your auto or home is personal lines policy. The band probably has a commercial lines policy.
Quoting 2175301 (Reply 184):
In this case, I would be surprised if a $1200 repair would have been covered by the insurance policy.
It would be safe to say, "Entertainment Equipment Floater" insurance would cover it.
Of course it would be an Entertainment Equipment Floater"; but the deductable would likely be larger than the cost of the repair - thus the insurance company would never get involved.
I did a little web searching: The standard commercial policy for most bands starts at $100,000 of equipment with either a $2500 or a $5000 deductable, and goes up from there (although I suspect that someone offers $50,000 and $75,000 policies).
The standard individual "Personal" Entertainment Equipment Floater that an individual buys for their personal instrument - usually as an add-on to renters or homeowners insurance usually has a $250 or $500 deductable.
It seems there is a big difference between individual "personal" insurance and commercial line insurance policies on deductibles. Individual people seem to want less risk of exposure - and pay the appropriate premiums.
In this case, with a commercial band policy, I see no reason to expect that a $1200 repair would not be within the deductable and that there would be no reason for the insurance company to get involved - or even be notified.
Vfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 2772 posts, RR: 6 Reply 185, posted (3 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3815 times:
Reporting on the story, the Chicago Tribune has raised an interesting point:
"In fact, airlines are losing fewer bags because they're handling less luggage after adding fees for checked bags over the past year. "That was one of the first questions that people asked: 'If you're going to charge me extra for this bag, are you going to do a better job of it?'" aviation consultant Robert Mann said. "We're starting to see the answer -- 'Nope. You just pay.' ""
On a somewhat lighter note, the idea of revenge videos seems to have taken off - now it is "Northwest Breaks Dulcimers"
2175301 From United States, joined May 2007, 627 posts, RR: 0 Reply 187, posted (3 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3600 times:
Additional information from another interview:
The music video cost $150; and according to Dave:
"We took wild exaggerations with the video for the song, but the lyrics are an exact replication of what happened with United. I don't see myself as the champion of any cause."
Oh, and this is not the first time Dave has had a broken instrument during airtravel - but with different results:
Has he ever had another guitar damaged while flying to a performance?
Dave: "No one has asked me that before, but I had a similar issue with Continental Airlines a few years ago in Texas," he said. "They immediately took responsibility -- that was part of my frustration with United (stonewalling) me."
Any other twists? Just one.
"The strange thing about this is that if Dave would have just called us, we would have taken care of his damaged guitar (free) and none of this would have ever happened," said Hosler, Taylor's (Guitar's) vice president.
"I didn't know that," Carroll said. "But this wasn't about somebody else taking responsibility and fixing a problem caused by United. Where I come from -- and I think most people also believe this -- if you break something, you should fix it."
Theredbaron From Mexico, joined Mar 2005, 1172 posts, RR: 5 Reply 190, posted (3 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3491 times:
Most Taylor guitars I have played (the expensive ones 2000 and up) are very good guitars with great tone and amazing resonance, if this guy had a Taylor and was his favorite I guess it was a great instrument.
Even the Taylor guitars vice president said they would have provided him another Guitar.
The point here is that he was pissed because of how he was treated so he made the video.
Now I expect a blizzard of You tube videos trying to pull the same stunt... for all the wrong reasons.
Silentbob From Vatican City State (Holy See), joined Aug 2006, 959 posts, RR: 1 Reply 191, posted (3 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3442 times:
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 182): I know nothing about guitars, but wouldn't be cheaper (given the $2000 deductible) to just buy a brand new one or is that besides the point?
Richierich From United States, joined Nov 2000, 3227 posts, RR: 7 Reply 192, posted (3 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3317 times:
Quoting Theredbaron (Reply 193): Now I expect a blizzard of You tube videos trying to pull the same stunt... for all the wrong reasons.
Good point, I was thinking about this too.
Everyone who has been wronged by an airline - rightly or wrongly - will now take to YouTube with a video. Chances are slim that any of them will come close to the original though. United Breaks Guitars was a success because it is believable and you can feel the frustration felt by Mr. Carroll. Whether or not it is accurate is irrelevant at this point.
Hestaman From United States, joined Jun 2008, 76 posts, RR: 0 Reply 193, posted (3 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2940 times:
I certainly hope I'm not beating a dead horse here... I was away on vacation for a while - so I'm a bit out of the loop. I just wanted to post one more comment that I haven't seen a comment and/or reaction to and that is the public's perception of United vs. that of the Taylor guitar company. Specifically... read a couple pages of youtube comments to Dave's song on United vs the comments on Taylor's video response:
BlueFlyer From United States, joined Jan 2006, 1140 posts, RR: 2 Reply 194, posted (3 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2880 times:
The whole adventure made it on the BBC World Service's World Update radio program today, complete with an interview of the unfortunate passenger and fortunate author, who quite readily admitted that, aside from everything else, this story has helped his musical career.
EDICHC From New Zealand, joined Nov 2006, 1015 posts, RR: 4 Reply 196, posted (3 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2345 times:
Quoting Tharanga (Reply 7): Hate to say it, but you have to look in the contract of carriage to see if they are legally responsible.
Not necessarily. If a carrier insists that a pax checks in an item, by refusing to allow the item as hand baggage, then they would be deemed as liable for any damage regardless of what it states in the contract of carriage. If a carrier insists on parting a customer with an item they are accepting responsibility for that item, if they lose/damage/destroy it then any 'sneaky' clause in the CoC they tried to invoke to avoid liability would be ruled illegal by a court. Just because something is printed does not make it legal.
"... This time he’s not fooling around: the video and song plainly titled ”United Song 2″ will feature 100 extras and camera shots from 40 feet up. The topic focuses on his interactions with a customer service representative who last November denied his claim to be compensated for an expensive guitar broken on a United flight.
“It’s about my emails with “Miss Irlweg” and features my relationship with her in a lighthearted way. She did a fantastic job as an employee and it’s too bad the policy handcuffed her. We could have been great friends if it was not for United policy.""
Some other details:
- United Breaks Guitars was the number one country song in the United Kingdom iTunes store
- For the remainder of 2009, he is planning two trips to Las Vegas and one to Denver for which a travel agent tried to put him on United. ”You better not. I wrote the song United Breaks Guitars.” The travel agent viewed the video, called back and said “I see what you mean.”
The first song now has close to 4.8m hits on youtube, by the way.
Shanxz From Singapore, joined Apr 2006, 171 posts, RR: 0 Reply 200, posted (2 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1400 times:
An interesting video reply in response to Song 1 and Song 2 has been posted YouTube, which has 10 tips for United Airlines to handle this issue. Quite funny too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLBfMD5MlRo
Airlines are in the service business, not transport. Brand matters...
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