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JFK Runway Closed Due To Turtles  
User currently offlineGothamspotter From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 586 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 16580 times:

JFK runway 4L/22R was closed briefly this morning after pilots reported turtles on the tarmac!

JFK Runway Closed Due to Turtles

57 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12407 posts, RR: 37
Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 16484 times:

I assume they don't mean MD11s (or is that Tortoises)?

User currently offlineGothamspotter From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 16281 times:

Nope, the green, crunchy kind.

User currently offlineThestooges From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 16262 times:

I wonder if they are actually getting people to remove the turtles off the runway or are they just waiting until they clear off on their own ???

User currently offlineWILCO737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 8967 posts, RR: 76
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 16263 times:
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Quoting Thestooges (Reply 3):
I wonder if they are actually getting people to remove the turtles off the runway or are they just waiting until they clear off on their own ???

They can send out a car and clear the runway. Have seen that with other animals already. Not turtles, but rabbits or something like that.

The dead birds need to be removed as they don't walk or fly anymore  Wink

wilco737



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineWagz From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 516 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 16245 times:
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We've closed runways at PHL more than once due to Turtles as well. One of the city vehicles has to go out and clear them out of the way. Makes that guy's job intresting when they're snapping turtles though.


I think Big Foot is blurry, Its not the photographers fault. Theres a large out of focus monster roaming the countryside
User currently offlineThestooges From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 16175 times:



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 4):
They can send out a car and clear the runway. Have seen that with other animals already. Not turtles, but rabbits or something like that.

Well rabbits will naturally just run away if you drove past them, but turtles aren't exactly that fast, and someone would have to actually pick them up in order to move them.

Quoting Wagz (Reply 5):
We've closed runways at PHL more than once due to Turtles as well. One of the city vehicles has to go out and clear them out of the way. Makes that guy's job intresting when they're snapping turtles though.

For this reason it seems like it would have to be someone who's trained to handle animals, like Wildlife Rescue. If the turtles are a protected species you might not be able to get just anyone to move them, only trained proffesionals.


User currently offlineFalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6071 posts, RR: 29
Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 15929 times:
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Quoting Thestooges (Reply 6):

For this reason it seems like it would have to be someone who's trained to handle animals, like Wildlife Rescue. If the turtles are a protected species you might not be able to get just anyone to move them, only trained proffesionals.

What a waste of time that would be and a great example of government red tape. You know the pro will come out there and do the same thing I would do. Pick up the turtles and move them to another spot

Quoting Gothamspotter (Thread starter):
JFK runway 4L/22R was closed briefly this morning after pilots reported turtles on the tarmac!

I would like to a see a picture of the turtles on the runway. How many were there? How did they know they were there? Did a plane run over a few and report crunch noises?



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineGothamspotter From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 15704 times:



Quoting Thestooges (Reply 6):

For this reason it seems like it would have to be someone who's trained to handle animals, like Wildlife Rescue. If the turtles are a protected species you might not be able to get just anyone to move them, only trained proffesionals.

The Port Authority has wildlife personnel on staff. They went out there and picked up the turtles.

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 7):
I would like to a see a picture of the turtles on the runway. How many were there? How did they know they were there? Did a plane run over a few and report crunch noises?

Pilots reported seeing them...they had been using that runway at the time, not sure if any got run over.


User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2209 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 15499 times:



Quoting Kaitak (Reply 1):
I assume they don't mean MD11s (or is that Tortoises)?

No, the A340 is the real tortoise!



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlineTb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1575 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 15429 times:

The funniest thing I ever saw was a tortoise and a hare next to each other on the runway in LRD. I always wondered if they were racing?


Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlineContrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 15369 times:

Sadly this is very true. LMAO I was working at T-5 and we just pushed a flt out and we were waiting for our next one. Anyway, Port Aurthority came over to our gate to do some video of us for a training video. Well we waited half an hour for our flt to come in cuz it was stuck on the taxi way because of the ground delay due to the turtles to which i found out from the Port Authority guy that was shooting the video. I thought he was full of you know what but he explained to me that this time of year, they walk in from the swamp area next to the runnways. You wouldn't believe what a mess this made of not just our system but for every airline in JFK. Delays like you wouldn't believe because of this. The que lines were unreal not to mention how back up our alley was. There was just no room for our flts to get out. I would love to be the pilot explaining a half hour delay was due to turtles.


Giants football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineMyt332 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 9112 posts, RR: 71
Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 15292 times:



Quoting Contrails15 (Reply 11):
There was just no room for our flts to get out. I would love to be the pilot explaining a half hour delay was due to turtles.

I was taxiing around JFK waiting to depart for over 2 hours last night on BA114. We were number 50 in the queue and went on a guided tour of the field. I guess this is normal? Is there a pre-defined route you have to take? We were in a procession of aeroplanes randomly going up and down taxiways and runways. Finally airbourne at 0036 vice 2130. Urgh.



One Life, Live it.
User currently offlineRampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3103 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 15117 times:



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 7):
What a waste of time that would be and a great example of government red tape. You know the pro will come out there and do the same thing I would do. Pick up the turtles and move them to another spot

Do you know how to handle a snapping turtle?

If, for instance, a mechanic or air traffic controller calls in sick, will it be OK to substitute with, say, a wildlife specialist, because isn't it just as simple to unscrew a wing nut or queue up a dozen planes for takeoff?

-Rampart


User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21504 posts, RR: 56
Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 15113 times:



Quoting Myt332 (Reply 12):

I was taxiing around JFK waiting to depart for over 2 hours last night on BA114. We were number 50 in the queue and went on a guided tour of the field. I guess this is normal? Is there a pre-defined route you have to take? We were in a procession of aeroplanes randomly going up and down taxiways and runways. Finally airbourne at 0036 vice 2130.

That's not uncommon during the departure rush, unfortunately. I was on the ground for about an hour and a half on BA112 a couple of weeks ago. There is no pre-defined route as such, but the ATC guys have their contingency plans for when the field backs up, and then the planes always follow the same pattern. When they're departing 22R, they form a line on 13L and another on taxiway C, let all the planes in one of the lines go, then let all the planes in the other line go. For 13R departures, the same principle exists, except the lines are on taxiways P and Q. From the METARs, you probably departed on 4L, which has one long line that extends down taxiway K and 13R as far as it needs to go (it can get all the way down to the end and loop around onto the taxiways if things get really screwed up).

Given what they have to work with, the procedures are pretty efficient (using two lines lets the aircraft stop and shut down their engines to save fuel, rather than creeping along and having to keep the engines running), but the simple fact remains that when you only have one runway, and a lot of planes want to use it, it's going to get congested. That's especially true when talking about heavy jets, which shut down the runway for at least two minutes every time they go - those slow down the works even more.

Quoting Myt332 (Reply 12):
Urgh.

Indeed.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineFlyingfox27 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2007, 424 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 15064 times:

"This is JFK Tower, would Leonardo, Michealangelo, Donatello and Raphael please clear the runway or we will tell Master Splinter!"

Hope they find good homes!


User currently offlineMyt332 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 9112 posts, RR: 71
Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 14927 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 14):
There is no pre-defined route as such, but the ATC guys have their contingency plans for when the field backs up, and then the planes always follow the same pattern

Thanks for that, it kind of makes more sense now. It's just hard to believe it can get so screwed up like it does. We definitely taxied down 13R at some point and I think we actually went off 31L. It was out over Jamaica Bay with that funky left turn.

Maybe next time I'll use EWR.  Wink



One Life, Live it.
User currently offlineContrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 14891 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 14):
Quoting Myt332 (Reply 12):

I was taxiing around JFK waiting to depart for over 2 hours last night on BA114. We were number 50 in the queue and went on a guided tour of the field. I guess this is normal? Is there a pre-defined route you have to take? We were in a procession of aeroplanes randomly going up and down taxiways and runways. Finally airbourne at 0036 vice 2130.

That is normal, welcome to JFK in the evening. What is not noraml, 40 and up que line for takeoff with god only knows how many inbounds waiting to taxi to gates at 0930 on a Wed. JFK ground I'm sure had the Pepto Bismal flowing like milk and honey in that tower. This as they say was just one of those days.
You gottta love JFK banghead 



Giants football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently onlineBEG2IAH From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 933 posts, RR: 17
Reply 18, posted (5 years 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 14702 times:
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Turtles are much faster than what you get while taxiing on a plane at JFK or any other NY airport, so they might let them vacate the runway on their own.

BEG2IAH



FAA killed the purpose of my old signature: Use of approved electronic devices is now permitted.
User currently offlineFlyby519 From United States of America, joined exactly 7 years ago today! , 1124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 14233 times:

I was on taxiway Kilo headed for departure from 4L when the invasion begun. It was hilarious seeing little sea turtles storming the taxiways and runways. I must have counted 20 of them total. There were 3-4 Port authority vehicles listening on the frequency and chasing down the turtles when we called in the locations. Several times they thought the turtles were all gone, and a jet would depart only to call back saying there were 3 more on the runway! I wish I had my camera, priceless moment  Smile


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User currently offlineLuv2cattlecall From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1650 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 14095 times:
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Quoting Mir (Reply 14):
That's especially true when talking about heavy jets, which shut down the runway for at least two minutes every time they go - those slow down the works even more.

Is that 2 minute spacing true even if the jet following is a heavier one...i.e. does a 747 have to wait 2 minutes after a 757 departs?

I always wondered why they don't order them up in ascending banks... like launch a CRJ, then some E-Jets, then the A320s, then 757, then 747s, etc... Instead of doing the A320/E-Jet/A320 back and fourth with a heavy thrown in every so often to slow things down even more.



When you have to breaststroke to your connecting flight...it's a crash!
User currently offlineDAL763ER From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2008, 519 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 13631 times:
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Quoting Luv2cattlecall (Reply 20):
I always wondered why they don't order them up in ascending banks... like launch a CRJ, then some E-Jets, then the A320s, then 757, then 747s, etc... Instead of doing the A320/E-Jet/A320 back and fourth with a heavy thrown in every so often to slow things down even more.

Because you just can't have them depart in that order. Not all are ready at the time they should and you can't hold the big guy for the little one...just the way it is...a better question would be: Why can't they use a runway for heavies only and the other for small-med planes - heavies as well, but behind them as you said...?



Where aviation is not the side show, it's the main show!!!
User currently offlineKl911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 5119 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (5 years 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 13230 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 14):
That's not uncommon during the departure rush, unfortunately. I was on the ground for about an hour and a half on BA112 a couple of weeks ago. There is no pre-defined route as such, but the ATC guys have their contingency plans for when the field backs up, and then the planes always follow the same pattern. When they're departing 22R, they form a line on 13L and another on taxiway C, let all the planes in one of the lines go, then let all the planes in the other line go. For 13R departures, the same principle exists, except the lines are on taxiways P and Q. From the METARs, you probably departed on 4L, which has one long line that extends down taxiway K and 13R as far as it needs to go (it can get all the way down to the end and loop around onto the taxiways if things get really screwed up).

But why can Heathrow cope with it with only 2 runways?? Sounds to me somebody screwed up at the slot allocations... Bigger planes, less frequency, thats what this industry needs!

KL911



Next trip : DUB-AUH-CGK-DPS-KUL-AUH-CDG-ORK :-)
User currently offlineFalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6071 posts, RR: 29
Reply 23, posted (5 years 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 13185 times:
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Quoting Rampart (Reply 13):
Do you know how to handle a snapping turtle?

You shoot it with a small caliber rifle and eat it.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineN243NW From United States of America, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 1624 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (5 years 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 13080 times:

Does anyone have a NOTAM from this morning? It would be interesting to see how it was worded there.

Something like this? JFK RWY 4/22 CLSD DUE TURTLES ON RWY.  Smile



B-52s don't take off. They scare the ground away.
25 Thestooges : Man, I'd hate to be in your family if you were working as a wildlife specialist at an airport . . . "Hey kids, I hope you're hungry cause I got a who
26 Flyboy1108 : LMAO well said... The funny/sad thing is that I know people (and even more sadly very good friends with a few of them) who go out and do this for fun
27 Eightball : That has to be one of the funniest posts I've ever read in Airliners.net
28 Mjgbtv : Not a NOTAM, but I believe the FAA flight delay website showed delays due to OTHER: RWY CONTAMINATION for JFK earlier today.
29 Us330 : I assume these weren't sea turtles (all species of which are protected and endangered), right? I guess this kind of stuff is to be expected when an ai
30 MSYPI7185 : Well maybe they could just fire up the snow plows and let it rip...Those turtles would be back in the swamp in no time!! Could you imagine having to e
31 Ikramerica : They are too busy pining for the fjords. I find fireplace mitts work fine. They can snap or bite all they want, and who cares. Move the animal in que
32 Moose135 : "Delta 77, caution wake turbulence behind a departing turtle..." Tuesday evening's mess was helped along by some wicked thunderstorms that rolled thro
33 Jetsetter629 : "I like turtles..." Hahah
34 ExFATboy : Doesn't Darwinian selection demand that we just let the planes squish the turtles? The stupid turtles that don't adapt to their environment get run ov
35 Post contains links and images Phoenix9 : Reminds me of this picture..."It's all about priorities in life" [Edited 2009-07-08 19:56:00]
36 Levg79 : Reminds me of a humurous ATC transcript I came accross a few years back: Cessna: Tower, confirm you want me to taxi in front of a 747 Tower: Yeah, it
37 KBUF : I take it Mario and Luigi were out of town?
38 Pellegrine : How about a broom, give them a gentle push?
39 Post contains images Phoenix9 : How about a baseball bat, send them for a ride of their life  [Edited 2009-07-08 21:34:07]
40 MCOatc : This kind of stuff actually is pretty common at most airports, large and small. There is just generally so much vacant land and animals become immune
41 Phoenix9 : Sorry for a stupid question: being that this stuff is quite common and sometimes can results in monetary loss (e.g. all the waiting aircraft) or at t
42 VirginFlyer : How about instead of just the runway, having it surround the movement area? I don't think it would necessarily need to be electrified - just so long
43 Mir : That was definitely 31L then, but I doubt you were taxiing down 13R, since that would be the same piece of pavement but in the other direction. Maybe
44 Burkhard : Turtles are extremely rare in Europe. Heathrow is further away from the sea. But your conclusion is absolutely correct. As long as the US airline ind
45 RedChili : Haven't you heard the news? The turtle actually beat the rabbit in the most recent race.
46 Burkhard : Yup, last minute change of the rules and it includes a 10m dive or to run around the globe in the other direction.
47 Aero145 : Shows how short you’ve been here. A good thing, ya know.
48 FlyDeltaJets : That my friend is called the Canarsie Climb
49 Mir : Don't forget the Breezy Point and Bridge Climbs. They have the left turn, too. -Mir
50 Carlisle : And if one wishes to go to the right, you always have the "Gateway Climb" over my house from 13R.
51 Mir : That's the Idlewild Climb, actually. The Gateway Climb is off of 22R, and is used late at night for noise abatement purposes - it's not that much dif
52 DocLightning : YES!!! Good going, guys! I mean, I don't get why everyone is so shell-shocked.
53 Mir : True. A major international airport shouldn't have to retreat into its shell just because someone finds a turtle on the runway. -Mir
54 Rampart : Also reminds me of a story, a while back, of a C-5 parked while a smallish Air Force plane, a T-38 or F-16 IIRC, taxis by in front. C-5 began to open
55 Contrails15 : At times there were upwards of 80 reported by pilots on the runway. Your gonna need to shut it down. I am happy to report no turtles sited today. Pre
56 WESTERN737800 : They should do that, it'd save the airlines some catering costs.
57 Revelation : Yes, pretty funny. Even funnier!
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