DocPepz From Singapore, joined May 2001, 1938 posts, RR: 3 Posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4054 times:
Was just noticing, besides FR and U2 that have huge fleet orders in the pipeline, other airlines like Jet2, Monarch and Flybe have hardly any planes on order. Jet2 has an aging fleet of 757s with nothing on order. Monarch only has some 787s due (in the single digits) from 2015 onwards. Flybe has 8 Q400s on order but it's mostly for fleet renewal......BMI Baby has nothing on order either.
Even if I throw Thomson in, they've nothing on order as well.
So what exactly is the plan with these airlines? Are they not anticipating growth out of their bases? FR and U2 have well over 100 aircraft on order each..... Especially consider Jet2, Monarch, Flybe and Monarch are MAN-based LCCs, are they not anticipating growth ex MAN? On the other hand, FR and U2 are expanding their LPL base, so is there a chance FR/U2 might siphon some traffic that could have developed through MAN?
SXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2042 posts, RR: 19 Reply 4, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3874 times:
How long has it been since Transavia received a new aircraft? I believe it was 2006 right?
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
BA319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8276 posts, RR: 56 Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3862 times:
Quoting SXDFC (Reply 4): How long has it been since Transavia received a new aircraft? I believe it was 2006 right?
- Transavia are Dutch!
I think the burning question is what are BMI Baby (if LH keep them) and Jet 2 are going to buy to replace their 733's??
Thompson still have lots of 752's, what is going to replace them, more 738's and a few 739ER's?
BasilFawlty From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 1266 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3808 times:
Quoting Seemyseems (Reply 6): I think WW and Jet2 could benefit from a fleet update, their machines are quite old.
WW's fleet is about 12-14 years old, which is not very old if you ask me.
The LS fleet is older but they have very low costs because the whole fleet is owned. As long as the fleet is reliable there is no need to replace them with much more expensive new aircrafts. And by the way, as an aviation enthousiast I will always prefer the 737CL and the 757 over a 737NG or A320-series!
'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
PlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11253 posts, RR: 63 Reply 9, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3753 times:
A lack of new build aircraft on order doesn’t mean no expansion - the second hand market is quite active.
BMI Baby have settled on the 737-300 for the time being, supposedly they are withdrawing the 737-500 to create a single fleet type, although so far this year they have been shedding aircraft rather than adding them.
Jet2/Channel Express operate many 737-300QCs which are used on overnight cargo operations as well as passenger operations during the day, so I'm not sure if purchasing new aircraft is an option for them if they wish to continue this system - are there any other aircraft with these dual capabilities? If not, then ordering new aircraft to replace the non QC 733s would mean an additional fleet type demanding higher lease/purchase rates - I doubt they'll go down this road right now as they have only just taken delivery of another 737-300 a few days ago. As for the 757s, well what can replace them - it's an aircraft still in a league of its own; the A321 doesn't have the legs for transatlantic ops whilst the 787 is late and too large for many missions.
FlyBe still have options for another 15 DHC4s and 12 EMB195s, but they'd need to justify converting them to firm orders - domestic UK travel isn't too rosy right now and on continental routes they start hitting competition from EZY and FR who tend to offer much lower base fares.
Air Southwest chose to overhaul their Dash 8-300s with the addition of the Q technology instead of replacing them with new models.
Monarch Airlines have almost completely replaced their 757-200 fleet with A321-200s, they took two earlier this year and have taken a couple for each of the previous few years, and I believe they still have some to come when the final few 752s exit. The A300s are approaching 20 years old, but in high density configuration they are real workhorses which are probably going to stick around for some time.
FlyGlobespan received a 767-300ER earlier this year; they also have the 787s on order - quite early delivery slots I think.
Aurigny just took a couple of new ATR 72s and they may well be interested in the resurrection of the BN Islander/Trislander line which is supposed to take place soon - their examples must be pushing on for cycles if not hours. Blue Islands may also be interested.
BabyblueBHX From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 38 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3737 times:
With WW I think people at tinytown (baby HQ) are more concerned about if LH will keep the company sell it off or shut it down at this moment in time not fleet replacement. Don't forget WW shrunk by 3 aircraft last year and any new aircraft orders will need to be approved by the BD board. No one knows if WW makes a profit or not as I have said BD never publishes the financial performance of each company just the group as a whole. In my opinion I think any fleet replacement if any will come in the form of BD cast off's (A319/A320'S no longer needed at LHR) again that's if WW continues to exist in its present form. I just don't see an order for new aircraft here at this moment in time things are just too much up in the air for the BD group ATM.
Danfearn77 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 1782 posts, RR: 9 Reply 12, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3696 times:
The LS fleet is quite old now. Im sure some of their 733's are fast approaching 30 years old. They announced record profits recently so they are certainly doing well. They could benefit from some new aircraft. However, LS arnt a huge airline. Any new orders placed wouldnt be big.
In the case of WW, they have the opportunity to receive aircraft from BD. Its hard to see them get brand new aircraft for themselves.
Eagles may soar high, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines!
Danfearn77 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 1782 posts, RR: 9 Reply 14, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3580 times:
David_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7168 posts, RR: 14 Reply 15, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3545 times:
Quoting DocPepz (Thread starter): the other hand, FR and U2 are expanding their LPL base
I'm amazed that none of their new MAN routes for this winter have made it to their 2 recent press releases. Makes me wonder if there's more to come (hello aircraft no. 4!) and so make big play on the MAN plan is going according to schedule.
Bongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3045 posts, RR: 2 Reply 16, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3546 times:
Quite simply, the UK LCC market is saturated with FR & U2 flights. Once you take out their passengers, plus those of BA's shorthaul, what is there left ?
Thomsonfly and Monarch have been mentioned, but they are primarily charter airlines, plus they have either added new planes recently, or have some on order.
The others will come and go, leasing 2nd hand planes, living off the scraps left behind by the big boys.
DocPepz From Singapore, joined May 2001, 1938 posts, RR: 3 Reply 17, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3488 times:
Thanks for your reply guys. So is it safe to assume that airports in the UK that have FR and U2 as anchor carriers are more likely to get long term LCC growth compared to airports that don't? For example, MAN has Flybe, Monarch, Jet2 and Bmi Baby based there. U2 has a very small base (most of their ops are in LPL) and FR doesn't have a MAN base (most in LPL too) but operates into MAN from their other European hubs, as an end-point destination.
Since the trend for charter airlines is on the way down, Jet2 doubles as a cargo airline, and BMI Baby's fleet is downsizing, what do you think this has on the implications of MAN as a hub compared to LPL, NCL compared to MME etc......
SXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2042 posts, RR: 19 Reply 18, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3483 times:
Jeez.... you would have thought after almost 100 years free of foreign British rule, the world would realise the Republic of Ireland is independent..... Republic / Kingdom....not really compatible...!!!!
Perhaps a change of thread title is on order?
Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
Well FR has a lot of UK bases..... And I know they are Irish, but FR ranks among the largest UK based LCCs. For discussion purposes I would similarly speak of Tiger Airways Australia as an Australian LCC even though it is majority Singaporean owned..... I won't be the least bit insulted if Tiger Airways Australia is referred to as an Australian carrier because for all intents and purposes, it is.
There's no point lumping Tiger Airways Australia with Indonesia Air Asia or Thai Air Asia in a discussion on South East Asian LCC developments, is there! And in developments on Swiss aviation I'm not going to say "Oh since LX is owned by LH, it makes them German thus we shall not discuss them in the context of Swiss aviation".
Also, the topic thread "UK LCCs (excluding FR&U2) - Why No Planes On Order" was the longest possible number of words I was allowed to type. I would have liked to type "UK-BASED LCCs...." but that would have exceeded the word limit.
If I put "UK - based LCCs - why no planes on order" I would have been told off too!
Slinky09 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2009, 615 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (3 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3305 times:
Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 9): BMI Baby have settled on the 737-300 for the time being, supposedly they are withdrawing the 737-500 to create a single fleet type, although so far this year they have been shedding aircraft rather than adding them.
IIRC it was mentioned on a LH thread recently that LH had confirmed that it was dropping BMI Baby ...
25 Richardw: As an airline or changing the name? Will they sell it on, perhaps to U2?
26 AirNZ: I think you'll find that BE is Europe's largest regional airline with 36 UK/30 European airports and 190 routes in 13 countries. Did you somehow forg
27 Pe@rson: Yep, and BE are successful with their niche approach.
28 Burkhard: That's a multi billion $ question, which I'm sure is discussed and decided in Cologne.
29 Humberside: Most people would regard them as a seat only tour operator. They are mainly focusedon trade sales to travel agents, rather than direct sales to the p
30 Thestooges: Well yes, the aircraft are of course registered in Ireland but there are many more Ryanair aircraft actually based in the UK than in Ireland. The pla
31 DocPepz: If I'm not wrong LS was a pure cargo operator till a few years ago when they started pax operations right? If their aircraft are approaching 25 years
33 Gilesdavies: Wow that is a difficult question too answer... I think the simple answer is, UK LCC (other than easyJet and Ryanair) are always going to struggle agai
34 Humberside: I wouldnt put GSM in that category I think as well in this discussion we should remember that most of the airlines being discussed are not just LoCo'
35 AmricanShamrok: They have larger operations in the UK than ROI but that does not mean they're based there.
36 Leej: I think (wishfully!!) that Monarch should buy up the Lufty AB6's - give them a good capacity lift while the endless wait for the 787's continues.
37 AirNZ: Meaning what, if I may ask? Could that possibly be because there are only three airports in Ireland in which to base aircraft???? So, considering how
39 Humberside: And there is a 5th, Knock, that would be capable of a FR base
40 AirNZ: Yep, Kerry is there (so is Knock) but I wasn't considering either large enough in which to base aircraft so I'm not sure if any were actually based t
41 Humberside: FR do base an aircraft at KIR, and they probably could find enough work for one Knock based aircraft, but it is probably cheaper to operate NOC route
43 Kennyk: Would be nice if BMI Baby and Jet 2 merged, complementing each other, especially north of the Watford gap.
44 Flybehubby: Not to mention a large fleet of aircaft - 74 (60 Q400s and 14 E195s) by the end of this year (including 4 going to Athens.) Thats more aircraft by nu
45 Bongodog1964: I admit the slipped under my Radar; their 7.5 million passengers, is however a small number compared to FR or U2. In addition how do you define "Euro
46 Extspotter: Regional as in very short flights, mainly within the UK (or at least as was in the past). Also using aircraft which could be referred to as regional a
47 Thestooges: What I am saying is that the majority of aircraft that Ryanair own are technically, in aviation terms, based in UK airports. Fine, let me make myself
48 AirNZ: Hmmm, if you consider 7.5 million passengers a 'small' number then that's a matter for yourself considering many 'well known' airlines would give the
49 Bongodog1964: This is fairly typical, to quote some statistics, but neither know nor care how they were complied or on what basis. Much of what is claimed by Airli
50 Shamrock604: I must admit, I can see where your coming from..... Not anymore! I think a cursory look at their route map reveals the scale of their european operat
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