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DL And Virgin Blue (DJ) Seek To Form Joint Venture  
User currently offlineDL747400 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 322 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 9584 times:

This should be interesting:

http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&item=742

Should really give DL a leg up in the Australian/South Pacific region. Do we hear SkyTeam in Virgin Blue's future? Hmmmmm........  Wink

77 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineQF744 From Australia, joined Feb 2004, 415 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 9563 times:

Does this mean SYD-HNL flights could also be on the way - and possibly NAN-LAX?

QF744



IT'S ALL ABOUT THE UPPER DECK
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11559 posts, RR: 62
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 9544 times:

Smart move on Delta's part, since they can certainly use all the help they can get in their new LAX-Sydney flight. However, I would hardly say that this is going to give either a "leg up" in the market - they're still never going to be as competitive in the U.S.-Australia market as QANTAS.

User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 9518 times:



Quoting QF744 (Reply 1):
Does this mean SYD-HNL flights could also be on the way - and possibly NAN-LAX?

I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility, at least as far as codeshare flights are concerned. Good luck for DJ getting the authorities, though.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineTayser From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 1130 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 9498 times:

Hopefully this means VA's eventual MEL-LAX service goes daily helped along by DL codes on the flight - very smart move.

edit: actually - wouldn't it be even smarter to have the smaller, more longer range 77L fly MEL-LAX rather than the larger shorter (although still long-range!) range 77W?

this is the route which required a special variant of the 744 for QF to run it non-stop throughout the year - although they still have some restrictions afaik?

anyhow $0.02

[Edited 2009-07-08 16:49:25]

User currently offlineETA Unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2077 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 9498 times:

I highly doubt you will see SYD-HNL or LAX-NAN flights. Codesharing on BNE/MEL/SYD-LAX definately.

User currently offlineAtlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1046 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 9395 times:

Very interesting development. Certainly makes it alot more compelling of a route with help on the Australia end.


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
User currently offlineAVek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4369 posts, RR: 19
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9255 times:

This is scary for UA because all other players on USA-OZ will have a strong "native" in-country sales and marketing presence on both ends supported by large local carriers.


Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4748 posts, RR: 45
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9076 times:

I think those who cast Delta's Australia demise need to rethink. Nice to see its finally final.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 2):
they're still never going to be as competitive in the U.S.-Australia market as QANTAS.

Never say never.



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineETA Unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2077 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9036 times:

Not scary for UA at all- they have a strong in-country USA base to draw from. If anything, this is a return to the QF/UA/NZ SYD-LAX nonstop days... and my opinion is DL/VA will be the last to fill up just like NZ was.

User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1540 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9015 times:

So Virgin Blue will now feed passengers to UA, DL, and VA? Are they going to keep their current codeshare that they have with UA?


717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlineNickofatlanta From Australia, joined May 2000, 1487 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9015 times:



Quoting ETA Unknown (Reply 9):
Not scary for UA at all- they have a strong in-country USA base to draw from. If anything, this is a return to the QF/UA/NZ SYD-LAX nonstop days... and my opinion is DL/VA will be the last to fill up just like NZ was.

I think it is important to note that for most of the time that NZ was flying the route, Ansett was feeding both UA and NZ on the LAX-SYD route. Now, UA is left with no feed on the Aussie end - the Aussie press is reporting that DJ has cancelled the interline agreement with UA effective today.


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11559 posts, RR: 62
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 9007 times:



Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 8):
Never say never.

On this one, I'm sticking with never.

With one caveat: if QANTAS ceases to exist, then maybe Delta will have a shot. But short of that, no, I'm still going with never - Delta will never be "as competitive" (bigger, stronger, etc.) in the U.S.-Australia market than QANTAS.


User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4748 posts, RR: 45
Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8975 times:



Quoting Commavia (Reply 12):
With one caveat: if QANTAS ceases to exist, then maybe Delta will have a shot. But short of that, no, I'm still going with never - Delta will never be "as competitive" (bigger, stronger, etc.) in the U.S.-Australia market than QANTAS.

Like the use of quotes.



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineFlyibaby From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1017 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8975 times:



Quoting ETA Unknown (Reply 9):
Not scary for UA at all- they have a strong in-country USA base to draw from. If anything, this is a return to the QF/UA/NZ SYD-LAX nonstop days... and my opinion is DL/VA will be the last to fill up just like NZ was.

There is no way to predict if it will be good or bad for UA at all; to do so is pure speculative at best.

What is known is that both Delta and Virgn Blue Group can offer good feed on both ends, and perhaps might warrant additional capacity at some point for DL for connections from LAX.


User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10397 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8963 times:



Quoting Commavia (Reply 12):
Delta will never be "as competitive" (bigger, stronger, etc.) in the U.S.-Australia market than QANTAS.

Are you prepared to munch on your hat???  Wink



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineFlyibaby From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1017 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8949 times:



Quoting Commavia (Reply 12):
With one caveat: if QANTAS ceases to exist, then maybe Delta will have a shot. But short of that, no, I'm still going with never - Delta will never be "as competitive" (bigger, stronger, etc.) in the U.S.-Australia market than QANTAS.

Considering they provide substansially more lift to the US, that would be a little obvious.


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11559 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8939 times:



Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 13):
Like the use of quotes.

?

Quoting Flyibaby (Reply 16):
Considering they provide substansially more lift to the US, that would be a little obvious.

Apparently not.


User currently offlineSxf24 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8842 times:

What hasn't been mentioned is that VA=DJ. A joint-venture has the potential to eliminate the competition between VA and DL, significantly improving the opportunities for both carriers to succeed in the US to Australia market.

User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8842 times:

DL doesn't have to be the dominant airline in the market to be a strong and viable player and I don't at all think that DL is aiming to surpass QF.

What Delta and Virgin Blue both need is to cooperate to cement a strong position for each of themselves in a hotly competitive market. What is very interesting about this arrangement is how quickly DL is moving to a JV arrangement; that alone should tell you how much DL intends to be a player in the S. Pacific.

Yes, UA is the one at a disavantage in this whole arrangement. You will see DL target UA and its Pacific markets one right after another.

It also will be interesting to see how DL and Virgin cooperate but I think it is very safe to say that they will not be content just to "bulk up" on LAX-SYD; you will see new routes from both carriers that make them a much more viable competitor combined.


User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5249 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8837 times:

Excellent news. Hopefully this will stop a lot of the naysaying regarding DL's commitment to the US-Australia market.


Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineSxf24 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8826 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 19):
It also will be interesting to see how DL and Virgin cooperate but I think it is very safe to say that they will not be content just to "bulk up" on LAX-SYD; you will see new routes from both carriers that make them a much more viable competitor combined.

Makes me just think there could now be a use for some of the NW NRT slots...


User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8816 times:



Quoting QF744 (Reply 1):
Does this mean SYD-HNL flights could also be on the way - and possibly NAN-LAX?

Why would a DL tie up with DJ result in NAN-LAX???

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 8):
Never say never.

NEVER....


User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5193 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 8750 times:



Quoting ETA Unknown (Reply 9):
Not scary for UA at all- they have a strong in-country USA base to draw from. If anything, this is a return to the QF/UA/NZ SYD-LAX nonstop days... and my opinion is DL/VA will be the last to fill up just like NZ was

I think UA will likely be the last to fill up. DL/VA should be a strong player given the feed on both ends...

As for overtaking QF, I doubt they would want to do that. VA is branded as being a boutique airline and DJ like being 2nd biggest domestically....
This will be good for VA's BNE and MEL flights also.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6417 posts, RR: 38
Reply 24, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8641 times:

This sounds strange.. Do you use DL from USA then switch to DJ in SYD or just use DJ/VA/VX? I guess we wait and see what happens. IMO they don't have the capacity in one 77L to be able to say they're truly committed to the Australian/South Pacific market. Knowing how big the SYD-LAX route is, it seems like only a handful would be connecting onwards. Because of this, getting to the South Pacific is much easier simply by flying Air NZ; and it'd still be easier to be flying VA or QF to other destinations than SYD.

Just my 2c



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
25 Atlwest1 : Once again VX really doesn't offer the feed to Virgin Blue or V Australia. Delta along with its Alaska codeshare can offer VASTLY more connections and
26 777ER : Could this new tie up result in either VA or DL starting AKL flights with Pacific Blue providing domestic connections in New Zealand? If DJ/DL are ver
27 Atlwest1 : Maybe also this is an indication for the broader Skyteam alliance. Technically you could use the AF/KL-DL JV and then the DL-V7/DJ JV id imagine.
28 The Coachman : No it wouldn't. VA's flight ex SYD leaves late at night with an afternoon arrival into LAX, far too late for any meaningful East Coast connections to
29 Atlwest1 : Im sure though that Delta can figure out how to make it work on there end and the same for Virgin Blue. A simple tweaking of the flights or even the g
30 CV880 : I believe that they do from SFO, JFK, BOS & IAD, which leaves the question of DL/VX codeshare within California, since DL still has no feed from the
31 VirginFlyer : I have to say I'm not surprised by this at all - it always seemed like the obvious move to me. One thing I am wondering is what, if any, impact this w
32 ANstar : the VA flight still connects to East Coast red eyes... None - Virgin is not tied to an alliance, so they can work with airlines from seperate groupin
33 Airbear : I have always believed that the major thing holding DJ back from the govt./large corporate traffic they have always tried to attract - at least since
34 ANstar : One of the DJ staffers on another forum hinted at a single FF program for the Virgin grouo of airlines.... watch this space I guess.
35 VirginFlyer : If we were just talking about VirginBlue codesharing and offering FF reciprocity with Delta, then I'd agree that it shouldn't be expected to have any
36 MaverickM11 : Who cares? It would be obscenely unprofitable.
37 MasseyBrown : Assuming the agreement is approved, it probably wouldn't have any affect on HA unless the joint venture decided to operate flights to Hawaii. When ex
38 VictorKilo : Could DL/VA use the joint venture and have VA lease a pair of slots from NW so VA could start SYD-NRT service using a 77W - a service that would be fr
39 Post contains links VirginFlyer : It might be of interest to note that the ACCC in Australia last year rejected an application from Air New Zealand and Air Canada to operate Air Canada
40 Theginge : And I thought a certain person close to the Virgin Group has said that alliances are bad for consumers! But thats another topic.
41 MaverickM11 : It is an odd move in the whole Virgin Group strategy; it kinda leaves VX out in the cold but they need to go away anyway .
42 VirginFlyer : I may be out of date now, but I was under the impression the Virgin Group only held around 25% of VirginBlue. I would assume that at end of the day,
43 EddieDude : Do we know if DL SkyMiles frequent flyers will also receive Medallion Qualifying Miles when flying with Virgin Blue / V Australia on codeshared flight
44 Post contains links Tayser : Today's Australian article on the matter: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...ory/0,28124,25756980-23349,00.html
45 EMB170 : Doesn't DL route its NAN passengers via HNL on HA? Come to think of it now, HA is developing quite a remarkable South Pacific network...and the new A
46 The Coachman : Red-eyes aren't particularly popular for good reason.. Also a 4 hr 45 min connection time...
47 Atlwest1 : All things easily fixable by just adjusting times on either end. adding an additional flight to catch the connections from the aussie flight(s) or by
48 Post contains links VirginFlyer : I don't think so - Hawaiian doesn't fly to Nadi. In the South Pacific they only fly to Sydney, Pago Pago and Papeete at present - see http://hawaiian
49 777ER : You think a 4h 45min wait in LAX is bad.....try doing a 10-12 hour layover!!! I like the red eyes as they are nice and quiet, always also allow a lit
50 Alangirvan : Now that DL is ending flights to Mumbai, they would have some 77Ls available to do LAX-MEL as a joint venture. Would free VA 77Ws to do other things.
51 Edina : So Richard Branson is OPPOSED to Anti Trust Immunity on the Atlantic (BA/AA/IB) and yet he embraces the concept over the Pacific???!!!
52 Aaway : I wonder if this proposed JV is somehow reflective of long term viability of VX. Or rather, if the airline economic realities of Australia vs. the U.
53 ANstar : Branson has no say in the day to day running of Virgin Blue....
54 Alangirvan : Maybe VX will be sold to Republic and then operate as a Delta Connect airline?
55 Mattnrsa : Does anyone think this is just the two weakest players in the US-Australia market teaming up to minimize their losses? Neither one has much chance for
56 ANstar : I'm guessing that is someone flew all 4 carriers on the route, UA would be the one that they wouldnt want to return to. I mean, no PTV's in economy f
57 Koruman : No, Qantas is roadkill. They have put all their resources into SYD-LAX, and into gouging absurd fare levels there. But Sydney is in New South Wales,
58 ANstar : No it hasn't - please advise how it has failed... on routes like HNL they are still able to achieve higher loads than HA and likewise their short hau
59 RyanairGuru : I wouldn't say JQ have failed, but they are VERY Japan orientated - and the Au - Jp market has totally collapsed and had done before the global financ
60 Ben175 : QF operate PER-NRT 2-3 x weekly with a 763. Also, JQ do extremely well on HNL, i've caught the flight many times and it's been chock-a-block every ti
61 ANstar : Looking at the BTRE stats they achieve higher loads than HA and tend to get late 70's in the low season and high 80's in the high season on the route
62 Koruman : That's exactly why they have failed. Hawaiian's services on SYD-HNL profit courtesy of yields as well as loads, as they have passengers on $5000-$700
63 MasseyBrown : I think it's very defensive on the part of Virgin Blue, which watched a third of their equity evaporate in the Jul-Dec 08 period, and a shrewd hedge
64 VirginFlyer : Koruman, I think your pronouncement of Jetstar International's failure is premature. Let's come back and revisit it 12, 24 months down the track. I'm
65 Mayor : Pardon me for sounding stupid, but weren't we talking about Virgin Blue and not Virgin Australia?? Are they not separate entities?
66 VirginFlyer : V Australia (not Virgin Australia due to restrictions on Virgin Blue's rights to use the Virgin brand outside of Australia) is a wholly owned subsidi
67 DeltaL1011man : The DALPA would have a s**t fit. IMO DL will keep 1x daily LAX-SYD just for the name. Outside of that I agree. We may see more VAs 77Ws doing SYD run
68 Mayor : Ok, thanks for the explanation.
69 ETA Unknown : DL and VA will each operate SYD-LAX, VA will operate BNE-LAX, DL will operate MEL-LAX... that would be a cozy arrangement. As for the HA/Jetstar HNL d
70 ANstar : MEL-HNL was axed as no carrier can support that flight... it was axed only a couple of months from its inception. As for Japan, it is not just JQ str
71 Post contains links ANstar : An interesting opinion piece here about the proposed JV http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalk...9/07/11/delta-v-how-it-might-work/
72 Gemuser : This is totally correct, but as an interesting little tidbit: I was coming back from Hamilton Island yesterday on VH-VBI and if you didn't pay for Li
73 ANstar : I believe that is also a result of the fact they are now doing a single advertising campaign for both US and AUS POS... whereas the last campaigns we
74 Mariner : It goes with the territory. If you franchise the Virgin name, then SRB will happily use his media clout on your behalf. mariner
75 MaverickM11 : DL has already pulled LAXSYD down to 6/week in the Fall.
76 DocLightning : Maybe because you can't get to LAX on DL from anywhere on the West Coast? Come on, DL, you shoulda thought that one through. You need to feed LAX fro
77 OA412 : They had already hinted that they might do this some months ago.
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