Enilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 2239 posts, RR: 6 Posted (5 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4769 times:
Since I recently changed formats, here is the new key to reading this. 0>2 means previously selling 0 roundtrips and now selling 2 roundtrips as of this week versus last week. Some changes may be seasonal, but this is not a comparison versus last year. It is a comparison versus what was previously selling the week before for the future.
3E
IRK-STL NEW 0>2 EFF.8/09
AC
SFO-YUL CXLD 1>0 EFF. 11/09
AM
SAT-MTY CXLD EFF. 8/09
DL
FOLLOWING EFF. 9/09
ATL-BNA 10>12
ATL-CAE 11>10
ATL-GSO 12>10
IND-LGA XFER 3>0 (BACK TO NW)
JAX-LGA XFER 0>3 (BACK FROM NW)
Joeljack From United States, joined Feb 2005, 532 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (5 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4622 times:
I looked up some of the Delta cancellations in OAG and Delta.com and they don't show as canceled in either. DSM and MSN-DCA are a few that I looked up. Will these show shortly? I just found it weird that they are not even showing in OAG.
Enilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 2239 posts, RR: 6 Reply 2, posted (5 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4582 times:
Quoting Joeljack (Reply 1): I looked up some of the Delta cancellations in OAG and Delta.com and they don't show as canceled in either. DSM and MSN-DCA are a few that I looked up. Will these show shortly? I just found it weird that they are not even showing in OAG.
OAG leads, not follows. They put changes in OAG first and then they filter out into all the channels.
It's possible those flight are being transitioned to DL operated aircraft and have not yet appeared in the DL schedule (the transfers are usually one week offset). In that scenario they would not really be canceled, but just being moved from NW to DL. There is always that possibility.
Joeljack From United States, joined Feb 2005, 532 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (5 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4462 times:
Quoting Enilria (Reply 2):
OAG leads, not follows. They put changes in OAG first and then they filter out into all the channels.
It's possible those flight are being transitioned to DL operated aircraft and have not yet appeared in the DL schedule (the transfers are usually one week offset). In that scenario they would not really be canceled, but just being moved from NW to DL. There is always that possibility.
So why do they still appear in OAG today for dates in October?
Mke717spotter From United States, joined Dec 2005, 1512 posts, RR: 5 Reply 6, posted (5 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4431 times:
That's too bad, I really thought DL/NW would have kept MKE-LAX. But didn't NW suspend this service for a month or two during the winter? I guess that might leave the slight possibility that this is a seasonal cut.
Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
Steex From United States, joined Jun 2007, 468 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (5 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4421 times:
Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 4): Is that seasonal? Does that leave ORD with any VS service during the winter?
VS has given no indication that ORD is a seasonal suspension, so I believe it's of the "indefinite" variety. It's not the first time VS has pulled off LHR-ORD, which has proven a difficult route for them to move in on since they are stuck in 4th place. I wouldn't be surprised to see VS return to ORD sometime down the road when market conditions are better and when AA/BA ATI has allowed them to align schedules and potentially reduce overall LHR-ORD frequency/capacity a bit.
NWAESC From United States, joined Aug 2007, 1900 posts, RR: 2 Reply 8, posted (5 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4146 times:
Quoting Joeljack (Reply 1): I looked up some of the Delta cancellations in OAG and Delta.com and they don't show as canceled in either. DSM and MSN-DCA are a few that I looked up. Will these show shortly? I just found it weird that they are not even showing in OAG.
Quoting Enilria (Reply 2): It's possible those flight are being transitioned to DL operated aircraft and have not yet appeared in the DL schedule (the transfers are usually one week offset). In that scenario they would not really be canceled, but just being moved from NW to DL. There is always that possibility.
It's my understanding that MSN-DCA will be taken over by Comair come Sept.
Looks like a winter war between Spirit and NW/DL this winter. I think NW used to go up to 5 daily in the winter. That's gonna be a lot of seats in the market...
Enilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 2239 posts, RR: 6 Reply 14, posted (5 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3808 times:
Quoting Joeljack (Reply 5): So why do they still appear in OAG today for dates in October?
All I know is that they show ending as "NW" flights as of this week's schedule load. Next week we may find they are now "DL" flights. No way for me to know for sure. If they now appear as Comair operator then they probably just moved from NW to DL.
Quoting Mke717spotter (Reply 6): That's too bad, I really thought DL/NW would have kept MKE-LAX. But didn't NW suspend this service for a month or two during the winter? I guess that might leave the slight possibility that this is a seasonal cut.
The drop makes me think the addition of the route was closely orchestrated with YX and now the reverse. That borders on schedule coordination which would require anti-trust immunity...and guess what? They don't have it.
Airbusaddict From United States, joined Aug 2007, 363 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (5 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3782 times:
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
Quoting Airbusaddict (Reply 12):
especially with ATL-FSD being so successful.
ATL-FSD has already been discontinued once, and only just re-launched. A little too early to determine how successful this long and thin RJ route is.
Before it was discontinued Delta stated their reasons saying it was successful, however they had to cancel it. The route just started back up again in June as a CR2, and looking through the timetable from late June to the Fall/Winter it is now a CR7. I was actually one an ATL-FSD CR7 flight earlier this month and the load was nearly full, but then again you can't say its successful just from the load, but from the larger A/C placed on the route.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 26001 posts, RR: 77 Reply 16, posted (5 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3784 times:
Quoting Enilria (Reply 14): The drop makes me think the addition of the route was closely orchestrated with YX and now the reverse. That borders on schedule coordination which would require anti-trust immunity...and guess what? They don't have it.
I wouldn't take it that far. Delta saw a gap in the market because MKE was left with zero non-stop service to LAX. Since then, Airtran and Midwest has re-entered the market, which is clearly not large enough for three carriers, and Delta drops out. Not unreasonable on Delta's part. Rational business decission.
I assume it is a new carrier for the route because I don't think they could have previously operated scheduled service without an IATA code. I'm not an expert on Kirksville air service, though!
Pbiflyer From United States, joined Apr 2004, 181 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (5 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3620 times:
Quoting Toltommy (Reply 11): Looks like a winter war between Spirit and NW/DL this winter.
DL/NW should be the winner. Your crazy to fly NK as you can't even get in the lobby of their terminal at FLL to check in, unless you allow 3 hours or more. Crazy, as so may flights are leaving within a few minutes of each other.
Knope2001 From United States, joined May 2005, 1615 posts, RR: 29 Reply 20, posted (5 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3557 times:
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16): I wouldn't take it that far. Delta saw a gap in the market because MKE was left with zero non-stop service to LAX. Since then, Airtran and Midwest has re-entered the market, which is clearly not large enough for three carriers, and Delta drops out. Not unreasonable on Delta's part. Rational business decission.
For what it's worth, YX MKE-LAX starts August 1st, and NW/DL drops MKE-LAX almost six weeks after that.
Timf From United States, joined Mar 2003, 334 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (5 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3279 times:
Dropping JFK-AMS and BOS-AMS from 2 to 1 appears to spell the end for the NW-operated Trans-Atlantic 757s. I wouldn't be surprised to see those moved to NRT to be with the other 75As.
SNA slots are awarded April thru April, and I have not seen any County documents that the airline is returning a slot in mid period. This leads to me to believe VX might use the slot for another flight someplace. hmm..
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
this kind of surprises me but at the same time doesn't. It was moved to replace CVG-FSD, and that flight was around for quite a while. I am wondering if the timing of the flight hurt it. Wasn't it only a 5pm departure out of FSD? I think an early morning departure out of FSD with a late night return from DTW would have done better.
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13): ATL-FSD has already been discontinued once, and only just re-launched. A little too early to determine how successful this long and thin RJ route is.
Quoting Airbusaddict (Reply 15): Before it was discontinued Delta stated their reasons saying it was successful, however they had to cancel it. The route just started back up again in June as a CR2, and looking through the timetable from late June to the Fall/Winter it is now a CR7. I was actually one an ATL-FSD CR7 flight earlier this month and the load was nearly full, but then again you can't say its successful just from the load
They said CID-ATL was successful too and that got cut. Loads were always full too. You just never know these days as DL keeps cutting and moving stuff around. It seems as though unless you have multiple flights a day to the ATL hub your flight is teetering on the edge (see LNK, CID, PIA, Wilkes Barre/Scranton, PA etc). That said hopefully they keep it as that gives me hope my CID-ATL route will be reinstated one day.
Evanbu From United States, joined Mar 2009, 175 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2902 times:
Just talked to Gary Hagan at Des Moines Int'l (Marketing Dept), he informed me that DSM-DCA is being axed from NW in favor of DL. So essentially the route is here to stay. He also said AA has a direct flight from DSM to DCA. I was unaware.
BMI727 From United States, joined Feb 2009, 3321 posts, RR: 1 Reply 25, posted (5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2876 times:
Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 23): It seems as though unless you have multiple flights a day to the ATL hub your flight is teetering on the edge (see LNK, CID, PIA, Wilkes Barre/Scranton, PA etc).
I agree that DL is in a constant state of change at the moment, but I should point out that there were a lot of factors in the PIA-ATL cut.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
26 Enilria: Keep in mind that with the code share the airlines already ship their schedules to each other in advance in order for the code share flight numbers t
27 Joeljack: Direct flight is not a nonstop flight. AA does not have a nonstop flight from DSM-LGA.
28 Evanbu: I'm aware of what Nonstop vs. Direct is. However, I am asking if they have DSM-DCA direct from AA.
29 AirplaneBoy: Evanbu is using a standard industry term. In the airline industry, 'nonstop' means just that - non-stop (no stops from point 'A' to point 'B'). 'Dire
30 Iowaman: A direct flight is a flight that uses the same flight number, (example- flight #9999) DSM-ORD-DCA. A non-stop would depart Des Moines and arrive at N
31 FlyASAGuy2005: Don't really remember from last week but over the past few weeks/ months, i've seen a lot of markets teeter between Delta and Northwest. Is it a norm
32 MSPNWA: This is the one I'm most interested in. It seems like there's only one flight now, and it only goes twice daily sometime in August. That means it wou
33 Pilotboi: A few corrections: - CVG-IAH was originally planned to be axed, however that plan has since been rescinded. - DCA-DSM/MSN are not being cancelled. The
34 Socalatc: VX already operates 4 RT LAX-SEA. Were they going to drop it from 4 to 2 and changed their minds? I don't understand why, it it their worst preforming
35 Centrair: I wonder if this is the result of JFK and SLC getting NRT. With a JFK non-stop, the need for transferring at DTW is decreased. With SLC, there is yet
36 Evanbu: Apparently you guys can't understand my question.... I don't consider myself a stupid person, and I know what nonstop vs. direct is. I want to know i
37 Airbusaddict: The timing is what killed it, I agree 110%. If that flight was in the morning between 5:30 and 7:30 it would have been more successful. DL has four f
38 MSPNWA: Sounds like a plausible theory to me. The list of cities with direct service to NRT on DL is growing longer, so plenty of options exist. If I can rem
39 Uncgso: Is GSO finally losing mainline DL? Some of the schedules i have seen in Oct/Nov none. That means NO more mainline legacy carriers at GSO since, what,
40 FlyASAGuy2005: Seems like you're pretty abreast on the happenings at High Point. With DL's exit, they have had continued mainline service since '66 up until this poi
41 ScottB: Maybe, but it's not clear that VX would be able to keep the existing passenger allocation quota if they dropped a daily flight. It's also easier to u
42 Rampguy: IND-DCA is also transfer back to all NW. Comair is discontinuing the only flight that is currently operating.
43 Enilria: There are two possibilities. 1) They are managing the whole thing as one airline and nobody cares about the operating code except us. 2) They are cle
45 Evanbu: THANK YOU! Thats what I wanted to know. Does anybody know how DL decides what is run with DL and what is run with NW?
46 FlyASAGuy2005: I figured that much but I had to ask . I would see above. There is not clear or concise way at the moment. For them, a code is a code (speculation) w
47 LAXintl: Did some reasearch. VX was alloted 419,924 seats for 2009 (Apr1-Dec31). Considering they did not launch service till April 30th, the 419,924 seats wo
48 Enilria: Hmm...assuming that's all correct they just decided to surrender a perfectly good slot. I guess the next logical question is whether that slot is gra
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