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OAG Changes 7/10/09: 3E/AC/AM/DL/NW/SY/UA/VS/VX  
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7691 posts, RR: 15
Posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8366 times:

Since I recently changed formats, here is the new key to reading this. 0>2 means previously selling 0 roundtrips and now selling 2 roundtrips as of this week versus last week. Some changes may be seasonal, but this is not a comparison versus last year. It is a comparison versus what was previously selling the week before for the future.


3E
IRK-STL NEW 0>2 EFF.8/09

AC
SFO-YUL CXLD 1>0 EFF. 11/09

AM
SAT-MTY CXLD EFF. 8/09

DL
FOLLOWING EFF. 9/09
ATL-BNA 10>12
ATL-CAE 11>10
ATL-GSO 12>10
IND-LGA XFER 3>0 (BACK TO NW)
JAX-LGA XFER 0>3 (BACK FROM NW)

NW
FOLLOWING EFF. 9/09
BOS-AMS 2>1
CVG-DTW XFER 1>0 (TO DL)
CVG-MSP XFER 2>0 (TO DL)
DBQ-MSP CXLD 2>0
DCA-DSM CXLD 1>0
DTW-FSD CXLD 1>0
JFK-AMS CXLD 1>0
LAX-HNL 2>1
LAX-MKE CXLD 1>0 (That's when YX resumes?)
MSP-MQT CXLD 1>0
MSN-DCA CXLD 1>0

DTW-FLL 5>7 EFF. 1/2010
DTW-NRT 2>1 EFF. 10/09
DTW-TPA 3>4 EFF. 10/09; 5>7 EFF. 1/2010

SY
HRL-MSP NEW 0>2/WK, EFF. 10/09

UA
MCI-SFO NEW 0>1, EFF 10/09

VS
ORD-LHR CXLD 1>0, EFF. 9/09

VX
FOLLOWING EFF. 9/09
LAX-SEA 2>4 OR 3>4 (DEPENDS ON MONTH)
SFO-SNA 5>4

48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJoeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 955 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8219 times:

I looked up some of the Delta cancellations in OAG and Delta.com and they don't show as canceled in either. DSM and MSN-DCA are a few that I looked up. Will these show shortly? I just found it weird that they are not even showing in OAG.

User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7691 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8179 times:



Quoting Joeljack (Reply 1):
I looked up some of the Delta cancellations in OAG and Delta.com and they don't show as canceled in either. DSM and MSN-DCA are a few that I looked up. Will these show shortly? I just found it weird that they are not even showing in OAG.

OAG leads, not follows. They put changes in OAG first and then they filter out into all the channels.

It's possible those flight are being transitioned to DL operated aircraft and have not yet appeared in the DL schedule (the transfers are usually one week offset). In that scenario they would not really be canceled, but just being moved from NW to DL. There is always that possibility.


User currently offlineSunking737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2058 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8143 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
SY
HRL-MSP NEW 0>2/WK, EFF. 10/09

This would be the start of Sun Country's seasonal service to HRL for the winter.



Just an MSPAVGEEK
User currently offlineJosh32121 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 369 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8128 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
VS
ORD-LHR CXLD 1>0, EFF. 9/09

Is that seasonal? Does that leave ORD with any VS service during the winter?


User currently offlineJoeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 955 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8059 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 2):

OAG leads, not follows. They put changes in OAG first and then they filter out into all the channels.

It's possible those flight are being transitioned to DL operated aircraft and have not yet appeared in the DL schedule (the transfers are usually one week offset). In that scenario they would not really be canceled, but just being moved from NW to DL. There is always that possibility.

So why do they still appear in OAG today for dates in October?


User currently offlineMke717spotter From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2465 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8028 times:

That's too bad, I really thought DL/NW would have kept MKE-LAX. But didn't NW suspend this service for a month or two during the winter? I guess that might leave the slight possibility that this is a seasonal cut.  crossfingers 


Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
User currently offlineSteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1763 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8018 times:



Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 4):
Is that seasonal? Does that leave ORD with any VS service during the winter?

VS has given no indication that ORD is a seasonal suspension, so I believe it's of the "indefinite" variety. It's not the first time VS has pulled off LHR-ORD, which has proven a difficult route for them to move in on since they are stuck in 4th place. I wouldn't be surprised to see VS return to ORD sometime down the road when market conditions are better and when AA/BA ATI has allowed them to align schedules and potentially reduce overall LHR-ORD frequency/capacity a bit.


User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3408 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7743 times:



Quoting Joeljack (Reply 1):
I looked up some of the Delta cancellations in OAG and Delta.com and they don't show as canceled in either. DSM and MSN-DCA are a few that I looked up. Will these show shortly? I just found it weird that they are not even showing in OAG.



Quoting Enilria (Reply 2):
It's possible those flight are being transitioned to DL operated aircraft and have not yet appeared in the DL schedule (the transfers are usually one week offset). In that scenario they would not really be canceled, but just being moved from NW to DL. There is always that possibility.

It's my understanding that MSN-DCA will be taken over by Comair come Sept.



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4433 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7655 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting NWAESC (Reply 8):
It's my understanding that MSN-DCA will be taken over by Comair come Sept.

DSM-DCA will also be going to Comair.


User currently offlineMtnWest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2485 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7503 times:
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Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
3E

Who is 3E?
I didn't know the IRK service was up for rebid lately.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineToltommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3308 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7449 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
DTW-FLL 5>7 EFF. 1/2010

Looks like a winter war between Spirit and NW/DL this winter. I think NW used to go up to 5 daily in the winter. That's gonna be a lot of seats in the market...


User currently offlineAirbusaddict From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 415 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7440 times:

DTW-FSD was not doing good at all, especially with ATL-FSD being so successful. Its not a surprise.


Finally F9! FSD-DEN 7-4-2011
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33280 posts, RR: 71
Reply 13, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7417 times:



Quoting Airbusaddict (Reply 12):
especially with ATL-FSD being so successful.

ATL-FSD has already been discontinued once, and only just re-launched. A little too early to determine how successful this long and thin RJ route is.



a.
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7691 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7405 times:



Quoting Joeljack (Reply 5):
So why do they still appear in OAG today for dates in October?

All I know is that they show ending as "NW" flights as of this week's schedule load. Next week we may find they are now "DL" flights. No way for me to know for sure. If they now appear as Comair operator then they probably just moved from NW to DL.

Quoting Mke717spotter (Reply 6):
That's too bad, I really thought DL/NW would have kept MKE-LAX. But didn't NW suspend this service for a month or two during the winter? I guess that might leave the slight possibility that this is a seasonal cut.

The drop makes me think the addition of the route was closely orchestrated with YX and now the reverse. That borders on schedule coordination which would require anti-trust immunity...and guess what? They don't have it.

Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 10):
Who is 3E?

The code was just assigned.
http://www.multiaero.com/


User currently offlineAirbusaddict From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 415 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7379 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):

Quoting Airbusaddict (Reply 12):
especially with ATL-FSD being so successful.

ATL-FSD has already been discontinued once, and only just re-launched. A little too early to determine how successful this long and thin RJ route is.

Before it was discontinued Delta stated their reasons saying it was successful, however they had to cancel it. The route just started back up again in June as a CR2, and looking through the timetable from late June to the Fall/Winter it is now a CR7. I was actually one an ATL-FSD CR7 flight earlier this month and the load was nearly full, but then again you can't say its successful just from the load, but from the larger A/C placed on the route.



Finally F9! FSD-DEN 7-4-2011
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33280 posts, RR: 71
Reply 16, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7381 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 14):
The drop makes me think the addition of the route was closely orchestrated with YX and now the reverse. That borders on schedule coordination which would require anti-trust immunity...and guess what? They don't have it.

I wouldn't take it that far. Delta saw a gap in the market because MKE was left with zero non-stop service to LAX. Since then, Airtran and Midwest has re-entered the market, which is clearly not large enough for three carriers, and Delta drops out. Not unreasonable on Delta's part. Rational business decission.



a.
User currently offlineMtnWest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2485 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7313 times:
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Quoting Enilria (Reply 14):
The code was just assigned.
http://www.multiaero.com/

Ok got ya. So it is just the same services as now but with an 'official' code.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7691 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7287 times:



Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 17):
Ok got ya. So it is just the same services as now but with an 'official' code.

The 3E code was just assigned according to :
http://www.avcodes.co.uk/#

I assume it is a new carrier for the route because I don't think they could have previously operated scheduled service without an IATA code. I'm not an expert on Kirksville air service, though!


User currently offlinePbiflyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 185 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7217 times:



Quoting Toltommy (Reply 11):
Looks like a winter war between Spirit and NW/DL this winter.

DL/NW should be the winner. Your crazy to fly NK as you can't even get in the lobby of their terminal at FLL to check in, unless you allow 3 hours or more. Crazy, as so may flights are leaving within a few minutes of each other.



PBI is South Florida's BEST airport!
User currently offlineKnope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2999 posts, RR: 31
Reply 20, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7154 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16):
I wouldn't take it that far. Delta saw a gap in the market because MKE was left with zero non-stop service to LAX. Since then, Airtran and Midwest has re-entered the market, which is clearly not large enough for three carriers, and Delta drops out. Not unreasonable on Delta's part. Rational business decission.

For what it's worth, YX MKE-LAX starts August 1st, and NW/DL drops MKE-LAX almost six weeks after that.


User currently offlineTimf From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 971 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 6876 times:
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Dropping JFK-AMS and BOS-AMS from 2 to 1 appears to spell the end for the NW-operated Trans-Atlantic 757s. I wouldn't be surprised to see those moved to NRT to be with the other 75As.

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26150 posts, RR: 50
Reply 22, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 6868 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
SFO-SNA 5>4

Interesting move if true.

SNA slots are awarded April thru April, and I have not seen any County documents that the airline is returning a slot in mid period. This leads to me to believe VX might use the slot for another flight someplace. hmm..



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineCIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2362 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 6634 times:



Quoting Airbusaddict (Reply 12):
DTW-FSD was not doing good at all

this kind of surprises me but at the same time doesn't. It was moved to replace CVG-FSD, and that flight was around for quite a while. I am wondering if the timing of the flight hurt it. Wasn't it only a 5pm departure out of FSD? I think an early morning departure out of FSD with a late night return from DTW would have done better.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
ATL-FSD has already been discontinued once, and only just re-launched. A little too early to determine how successful this long and thin RJ route is.



Quoting Airbusaddict (Reply 15):
Before it was discontinued Delta stated their reasons saying it was successful, however they had to cancel it. The route just started back up again in June as a CR2, and looking through the timetable from late June to the Fall/Winter it is now a CR7. I was actually one an ATL-FSD CR7 flight earlier this month and the load was nearly full, but then again you can't say its successful just from the load

They said CID-ATL was successful too and that got cut. Loads were always full too. You just never know these days as DL keeps cutting and moving stuff around. It seems as though unless you have multiple flights a day to the ATL hub your flight is teetering on the edge (see LNK, CID, PIA, Wilkes Barre/Scranton, PA etc). That said hopefully they keep it as that gives me hope my CID-ATL route will be reinstated one day.


User currently offlineEvanbu From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 379 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 6499 times:

Just talked to Gary Hagan at Des Moines Int'l (Marketing Dept), he informed me that DSM-DCA is being axed from NW in favor of DL. So essentially the route is here to stay. He also said AA has a direct flight from DSM to DCA. I was unaware.

25 BMI727 : I agree that DL is in a constant state of change at the moment, but I should point out that there were a lot of factors in the PIA-ATL cut.
26 Enilria : Keep in mind that with the code share the airlines already ship their schedules to each other in advance in order for the code share flight numbers t
27 Joeljack : Direct flight is not a nonstop flight. AA does not have a nonstop flight from DSM-LGA.
28 Evanbu : I'm aware of what Nonstop vs. Direct is. However, I am asking if they have DSM-DCA direct from AA.
29 AirplaneBoy : Evanbu is using a standard industry term. In the airline industry, 'nonstop' means just that - non-stop (no stops from point 'A' to point 'B'). 'Dire
30 Iowaman : A direct flight is a flight that uses the same flight number, (example- flight #9999) DSM-ORD-DCA. A non-stop would depart Des Moines and arrive at N
31 FlyASAGuy2005 : Don't really remember from last week but over the past few weeks/ months, i've seen a lot of markets teeter between Delta and Northwest. Is it a norm
32 MSPNWA : This is the one I'm most interested in. It seems like there's only one flight now, and it only goes twice daily sometime in August. That means it wou
33 Pilotboi : A few corrections: - CVG-IAH was originally planned to be axed, however that plan has since been rescinded. - DCA-DSM/MSN are not being cancelled. The
34 Socalatc : VX already operates 4 RT LAX-SEA. Were they going to drop it from 4 to 2 and changed their minds? I don't understand why, it it their worst preforming
35 Centrair : I wonder if this is the result of JFK and SLC getting NRT. With a JFK non-stop, the need for transferring at DTW is decreased. With SLC, there is yet
36 Evanbu : Apparently you guys can't understand my question.... I don't consider myself a stupid person, and I know what nonstop vs. direct is. I want to know i
37 Airbusaddict : The timing is what killed it, I agree 110%. If that flight was in the morning between 5:30 and 7:30 it would have been more successful. DL has four f
38 MSPNWA : Sounds like a plausible theory to me. The list of cities with direct service to NRT on DL is growing longer, so plenty of options exist. If I can rem
39 Uncgso : Is GSO finally losing mainline DL? Some of the schedules i have seen in Oct/Nov none. That means NO more mainline legacy carriers at GSO since, what,
40 FlyASAGuy2005 : Seems like you're pretty abreast on the happenings at High Point. With DL's exit, they have had continued mainline service since '66 up until this poi
41 ScottB : Maybe, but it's not clear that VX would be able to keep the existing passenger allocation quota if they dropped a daily flight. It's also easier to u
42 Rampguy : IND-DCA is also transfer back to all NW. Comair is discontinuing the only flight that is currently operating.
43 Enilria : There are two possibilities. 1) They are managing the whole thing as one airline and nobody cares about the operating code except us. 2) They are cle
44 Iowaman : Not that I can find.
45 Evanbu : THANK YOU! Thats what I wanted to know. Does anybody know how DL decides what is run with DL and what is run with NW?
46 FlyASAGuy2005 : I figured that much but I had to ask . I would see above. There is not clear or concise way at the moment. For them, a code is a code (speculation) w
47 LAXintl : Did some reasearch. VX was alloted 419,924 seats for 2009 (Apr1-Dec31). Considering they did not launch service till April 30th, the 419,924 seats wo
48 Enilria : Hmm...assuming that's all correct they just decided to surrender a perfectly good slot. I guess the next logical question is whether that slot is gra
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