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Any ATR With Front Boarding  
User currently offline330lover From Belgium, joined Jul 2008, 583 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4882 times:

Question is simple: are there any operators who have ATR with boarding doors in the front of the plane? On all photo's I have noticed doors in the back and cargo hold in front?


Britten Norman Islander VP-FBR on Falkland Islands. THAT'S FLYING!
18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBritair From United Kingdom, joined Aug 1999, 933 posts, RR: 16
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4844 times:

I flew on an ATR72 of Kar-Air, Finland and boarded at the front. These aircraft went on to serve with Finnair and Aero.


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User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7403 posts, RR: 57
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4838 times:

There is no door (only an emergency exit) for a front boarding on the ATR42. just the Cargo hold on all versions.
Front boarding is possible on the ATR72 only I think.


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[Edited 2009-07-09 07:10:52]

[Edited 2009-07-09 07:15:20]

User currently offlineNASBWI From Bahamas, joined Feb 2005, 1308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4585 times:



Quoting 330lover (Thread starter):
Question is simple: are there any operators who have ATR with boarding doors in the front of the plane? On all photo's I have noticed doors in the back and cargo hold in front?

On early models of the ATR-72 (Britair showed an example), there was a forward entry door. Later models of the -201s and subsequent -210/212/500 series of the -72 were sporting forward cargo doors only. I'm not sure if a forward door is an option, or if it's no longer offered. My question about the forward door was: where was the cargo door? On those earlier models of the -72, there appeared to be two entry doors; one in the front, and one in the rear of the aircraft. Was the cargo compartment much smaller on the earlier models?



Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
User currently offlineKonrad From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 523 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4478 times:



Quoting Britair (Reply 1):
I flew on an ATR72 of Kar-Air, Finland and boarded at the front. These aircraft went on to serve with Finnair and Aero.

Those aircraft were (still are?) boarded via jetways at Helsinki Vantaa, a big convenience during Finnish winter.


User currently offlinePrebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6389 posts, RR: 54
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4424 times:

The quite many ATRs around here (mainly Cimber Air) only have back doors. They are not operated with air bridges.

When borading it is quite a hazzle. Everybody knows that in the back of the cabin the engine and propeller noise is a lot less, so the first four pax to enter the cabin always occupy the backmost row and spend ten minutes on taking off their coat and stowing their bags. While the rest wait out in the rain or snow. Same procedure with the second backmost row and all way up. But usually they get the morning flights in the air before sunset.

Sometimes it a lot faster with great assistance from some mean FAs who make so much noise shouting "move up front please" that some pax prefer the engine noise instead. Most flights are barely over 30 minutes, so internal noise isn't a big problem. For longer flights they mostly use their CRJ-200s.

Last time I was on an ATR (a -72), then we were only 13 pax. All seats except the four backmost rows were blocked for balance reasons. So there wasn't much of a problem. I remember two gate operators talking to each other before the gate was opened for boarding.
- "Are there many pax?" one asked.
- "No, only about a dozen I think".
- "Okay, that's not too bad".
I wonder what the Cimber Air manager would have said if he had heard those words.

At least those back doors keep the scalps of the pax away from a windmilling propeller in the dark. Apart from that I only see disadvantages.



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently offline330lover From Belgium, joined Jul 2008, 583 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4311 times:

Thanks so far.

I can only see disadvantages in this.
Boarding not possible via jetways, in bad weather or in hard winter conditions this seems not to be very pleasant.
The problem of pax blocking the aisle and hindering the other pax is typical in all aircraft, but I suppose you mean when it's free seating?
I can imagine that 'normal' pax (not airline nuts like us) could find this strange as well.
When the cargo part is totally loaded, can the cockpit crew get into the pax cabin if needed?

Anyone knows if a front pax door is an option?



Britten Norman Islander VP-FBR on Falkland Islands. THAT'S FLYING!
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4188 times:



Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 5):
The quite many ATRs around here (mainly Cimber Air) only have back doors. They are not operated with air bridges.

AA use to have jet bridges for the rear loading ATRs in ORD in the 1990s


User currently offlineAndaman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4145 times:



Quoting Konrad (Reply 4):
Quoting Britair (Reply 1):
I flew on an ATR72 of Kar-Air, Finland and boarded at the front. These aircraft went on to serve with Finnair and Aero.



Quoting Konrad (Reply 4):
Those aircraft were (still are?) boarded via jetways at Helsinki Vantaa, a big convenience during Finnish winter.

These aircraft have left Finland, there is FinnComm flying new ATR's with back boarding now. Missing those jetways in winter...


User currently offlineNorthStarDC4M From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2994 posts, RR: 37
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4142 times:
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Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 7):

AA use to have jet bridges for the rear loading ATRs in ORD in the 1990s

Yes, i remember that, they had to modify the jetways and the ATRs had to pinwheel at the gate go sidelong to the terminal, interesting to watch from the Hilton, kind of a strange apron ballet.

They parked 2 deep as well, so only half the people got jetways. Found a pic:


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Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
User currently offlinePrebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6389 posts, RR: 54
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3927 times:



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 7):
Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 5):
The quite many ATRs around here (mainly Cimber Air) only have back doors. They are not operated with air bridges.

AA use to have jet bridges for the rear loading ATRs in ORD in the 1990s

Yes, but the CPH domestic terminal never had air bridges. I think it has historic reasons.

Before the Great Belt railway and motorway bridge was built in the late 90'es, by far the most domestic air traffic was operated by DC-9s and MD-80s. They were very efficiently boarded and deboarded using both front and back doors simultaneously. That counts when many flights were airborne for only 22 or 23 minutes.

When the bridge was built, then domestic air traffic shrunk to a fraction of earlier days, and several routes were simply discontinued. ATRs (and for some period also Q400s) became the norm on much of the remaining netwok. And with the limited traffic left, I doubt there will be money for jet bridges in the future.



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently offlineLuftfahrer From Germany, joined Mar 2009, 1012 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3794 times:

Since MQ has opened an ATR base in DFW, airbridges are in use there as well.
I've bookmarked a picture of it, but it's not mine, so I don't know if it's ok to post it here.



Et là tu montes encore plus haut et ça persiste, alors on vole
User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3964 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3780 times:

The "front door" version was the -201, the "aft door" version the -210.

Not sure, but it looks that since the change to the -500, there is only the aft door version available. The -201 was not terribly popular sales-wise. It must have a somewhat limited cargo capacity as the main cargo compartment in the ATR is at the front. Even if the toilet and galley is moved to the front, the space in the back will not make up for that.


User currently offlineNASBWI From Bahamas, joined Feb 2005, 1308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3671 times:



Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 12):
The "front door" version was the -201, the "aft door" version the -210.

Ahh, but there are many -201s flying around with the front cargo door as well. Could that have been a retrofit? Or did ATR start making the forward cargo door standard on all models beginning with -201s, and carrying over to subsequent models?



Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
User currently offlineAlexEU From Serbia, joined Oct 2007, 1817 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3659 times:

What's the reason that ATR decided not to put front door?

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 10):

Yes, but the CPH domestic terminal never had air bridges. I think it has historic reasons.

I didn't know that CPH actually has domestic flights (not including Faroe's and Greenland).


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3617 times:



Quoting 330lover (Reply 6):
When the cargo part is totally loaded, can the cockpit crew get into the pax cabin if needed?

The front cargo hold is actually seprated by a small wak way that runs from the cockpit into the hold and into the passenger compartment. Both sides are secured by nets so the bags don't fall into the walkway. The passenger door is simply just a door that locks from the hold and can easily be penetrated but the door leading to the cockpit is the one that is enforced per law.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3964 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3589 times:



Quoting NASBWI (Reply 13):
hh, but there are many -201s flying around with the front cargo door as well. Could that have been a retrofit? Or did ATR start making the forward cargo door standard on all models beginning with -201s, and carrying over to subsequent models?

Pax versions? Or converted freighters? A random search did not produce any pictures of an ATR72-201 with a front cargo door.


User currently offlineNASBWI From Bahamas, joined Feb 2005, 1308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3505 times:



Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 16):
A random search did not produce any pictures of an ATR72-201 with a front cargo door.

Y'know, I think you're right on that one. I guess it's the -202s that have the forward cargo door (same engines as the -201s, but perhaps a later version and introduced before the -210/212s).



Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24915 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3485 times:



Quoting AlexEU (Reply 14):
I didn't know that CPH actually has domestic flights (not including Faroe's and Greenland).

There are many domestic flights in Denmark, for example CPH-AAR (Aarhus) and CPH-AAL (Aalborg), the 2nd and 4th largest cities in Denmark. SK uses aircraft as large as the MD-80 and A321 on some flights on those shorthaul sectors.


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