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Illinois Senator Wants New Airlines For MWA/DEC  
User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5703 posts, RR: 52
Posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 6822 times:

Two members of Illinois' congressional delegation want the U.S. Department of Transportation to find a new airline for Decatur, Quincy and Marion.

Sen. Dick Durbin and Rep. Jerry Costello wrote the department Thursday asking that it solicit proposals for a carrier to replace Wyoming-based Great Lakes Airlines.


http://southernillinoisan.com/articl...news/doc4a568031c6c5a506258395.txt

Well, no one else is going to come and code share. ZK won't paint the plane for AA's colors, or pay for the codesharing.

Mesaba who has bidded for MWA-MEM before, has expressed they are not interested this time in flying the MWA-MEM route.

So interesting to hear our state folks speak up against this service. I would think airline service is better then none, but I also understand it has to be made easy.

Those who have read my TR know I utilize this service when I can and the lack of code sharing does indeed make it a lot harder to plan my trips.

Any thoughts or comments?

Alex


Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
62 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 6800 times:

You would think ZK would be on this like white on rice but apparently not. Weird.

Perhaps this is something that Locair could journey into??



Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offlinePiedmontINT From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 376 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6740 times:

With rumors flying that ZK may be closing the STL hub, they may just get their wish..  Yeah sure

User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15845 posts, RR: 27
Reply 3, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6692 times:

This sounds like sheer idiocy. Given the way Illinois politics works, probably one of these guys' nephews' son-in-laws got laid off from a cushy government job digging ditches in Chicago and decided it would be fun to start an airline.

Quoting Atrude777 (Thread starter):
I would think airline service is better then none, but I also understand it has to be made easy.

I agree. But Decatur is not a very long drive at all up to BMI so I don't get their problem there.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineMtnWest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2485 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 6627 times:

Well if I were ZK, I'd dutifully finish out contract and then tell them 'goodbye'. I would really like to hear what the real local travelers and people think. They have more clout in my book than ANY politician. A coworkers dad lives in DEC. I'll see if he has any opinion.


"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5703 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 6618 times:



Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 4):

Well I am a local! haha As I said I try to utilize the flights out of MWA whenever I can if the schedule fits, however since there is no codeshare it makes it a bit harder to combine the MWA-STL and STL-XXX schedule together.

I have flown MWA-STL at least 14 times, on ZK and when it was code shared as American Connection. So I enjoy having local air service and most certainly use it when I can and it is feasible for me.

I would be sad to see it go, yet again...

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 6561 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
I agree. But Decatur is not a very long drive at all up to BMI so I don't get their problem there.

Why would you want to drive an hour if you didn't have to? My folks live in DEC... I fly into BMI when I visit (and rent a car), but would fly into DEC if I could make a connection in Chicago (on one ticket, that is).

In lieu of that, would LOVE COEX service into BMI! (via CLE, but direct EWR service would be fantastic). As it stands now, once CO leaves SkyTeam, won't be able to fly CO itinerary into BMI, as UA doesn't even serve BMI.



An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15845 posts, RR: 27
Reply 7, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 6542 times:



Quoting TWFirst (Reply 6):
Why would you want to drive an hour if you didn't have to?

Because the alternative is a Beech 1900.  duck 

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 6):
In lieu of that, would LOVE COEX service into BMI! (via CLE, but direct EWR service would be fantastic).

I agree. Plus, I wonder if there is actually any demand for EWR flights due to State Farm. Probably not enough for a daily flight, but it would be interesting to see. I wonder how AA's flights to DFW do, but I doubt that CO would try IAH since it is not well suited geographically for connections from BMI.

I'd also like to see DL fly to CVG, but they seem too worried about their little cat fight with AirTran to care.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6521 times:

If anything out of CLE, those routes would probably start with Commutair and a Q-200 under the Continental Connection banner.

User currently offlineUncgso From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 345 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6514 times:

l flew RDU-STL-MWA on TW a while back. Was easier for me to drive 1.5 hours to RDU than it was for my family (in IL) to drive 2.5 hours to STL. For the last few years my grandma has flown NW PAH-MEM-GSO but would surely fly GSO-MWA if she could do it "seamlessly" and without 2 stops along the way.

User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4409 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6496 times:

So, Great Lakes flies the routes. They don't code share with AA? And politicians therefore want the state to create a new competing airline just to have it code share with AA? From outside that smells like 3 weeks old fish...

User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15845 posts, RR: 27
Reply 11, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6492 times:



Quoting Burkhard (Reply 10):
From outside that smells like 3 weeks old fish...

Nope, just Illinois politics. The state could run quite a nice airline since they already have so much experience losing money. And they could even use that plane (King Air I think) that Blago used to use to go back and forth between Springfield and Chicago.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineAcey559 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1545 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6431 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 11):
And they could even use that plane (King Air I think) that Blago used to use to go back and forth between Springfield and Chicago.

I think the state owns two or three King Air 350s along with a few other random planes like a Cessna Skymaster and C206s. Nothing new as far as politics, though. My one complaint about the state of Illinois is how stupid our politicians can be, but that's not for this forum. DEC is a decent size area, but even with ADM can they really support service with other alternatives close by? There are plenty of choices with SPI, BMI and CMI literally right over/up the road.

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 6):
In lieu of that, would LOVE COEX service into BMI!

I heard that COEX was in talks to start service from CLE-MLI, but the economy tanked and the idea went out the window. I'm a big DL supporter but I definitely wouldn't complain if we were able to get new service here at MLI. A new airline would be great but more importantly we need more service to the Eastern US. We have DTW but I wish there was more available. ATL is out of the way for flights to New England, etc but EWR or LGA would be nice although I'm not holding my breath.


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7823 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6417 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 7):
I wonder how AA's flights to DFW do, but I doubt that CO would try IAH since it is not well suited geographically for connections from BMI.

AA seems very happy with its flights from DFW-CMI/BMI/MLI. They all have high average paid fares and have good yeilds. Especially since CMI has very little airline service.

Im surprised CO hasnt tried to start service to one of those airports, but AA's regional network is much stronger.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6409 times:



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 13):
AA seems very happy with its flights from DFW-CMI/BMI/MLI.

Dont forget PIA


User currently offlineKnope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3005 posts, RR: 31
Reply 15, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6322 times:

I'm certainly not going to go out of my way to defend Illinois politicians. But unfortunately, without a code share, a known brand name, and joint fares, the EAS service that Great Lakes provides has essentially killed the markets they have been awarded to serve. Traffic is off about 75-95% since 2005 at several ZK airports in this area:

Average total passengers served per day in Q1

Burlington IA -- traffic down 76% since 2005
2000 56.5
2005 33.3
2009 7.9

Cape Girardeau MO -- traffic down 91% since 2005
2000 46.4
2005 31.2
2009 2.7

Decatur IL -- traffic down 93% wince 2005
2000 82.7
2005 56.8
2009 4.0

Marion IL -- traffic down 79% since 2005
2000 47.6
2005 55.5
2009 11.5

Quincy IL -- traffic down 84% since 2005
2000 37.4
2005 41.6
2009 6.6

In 2000 these were TW Express. In 2005 these were AA Connection. In 2009 they are Great Lakes. With few exceptions (DEC had 29-seat J41 for a time) these airports were served with 19-seat aircraft in 2000, 2005 and 2009. So it really isn't much due to the aircraft.

This is not limited to Great Lakes STL-area service either.

Trouble is, there really isn't anybody left to fly code-share service to most EAS markets, especially in this part of the country. Even Mesaba, something of a holdout in still bidding for several EAS markets with their 34-seat Saabs, and recently pulled bids, suggesting that even if they plan to keep their existing EAS cities for now (like ESC, FOD, DVL, APN) they have change of heart about adding new ones.

So while it's easy to complain about how these communities have seen their air service markets destroyed...while we pay for nearly empty planes to fly in and out daily...there's not a clear solution to save these markets, either.

Of course there are some people who don't think there should be any subsidized service like EAS period. But even for people who believe that EAS does in some cases provide an important link which serves significant traffic in remote places, the sorts of results seen in places like DEC, MWA and UIN are pitiful.


User currently offlineOMA2FAI2SAV From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6252 times:

As a local, I see this as a bad move. Even when DEC had more seats and service, ADM shuttled workers to BMI. BMI even had (has?) a dedicated ADM lounge at the airport. Unless the DEC flights codeshare with AA or UA out of ORD, or WN out of MDW, companies will still bleed the traffic to the larger airports. It is cheaper for them to drive the workers to BMI or SPI or PIA and fly them BMI-ORD-XXX or whatever than it would be to buy a ticket DEC-STL-ORD-XXX. And the employees will do a lot of crying if they are required to fly, claim luggage, check in, and fly.

Second off, from VERY reliable sources at BMI, the airlines there are not doing that great. From an airport exec, I was told the only airline close to a profit at BMI is DL. Take it for what it is worth. I asked what airline had the higest chance of leaving next, and the reply was, and I quote "The question is not who will leave next, but who we will be able to keep." Air travel is getting tougher here in BMI. With the FBO Platinum Jet Center closing its doors, and the word coming out that if the other FBO Image Air does not pay its $1.9 million debt by the end of Aug they will be shut down, it is getting hairy. It does seem that DL sees something here as they shut down their PIA operations. They have upgraded (Upgrading?) all ops here in BMI to CR7s and added a DTW and MSP flight to BMI. CO to CLE or EWR or US to PHL or CLT would be great, but i dont ee it happening. I dont see US in central Illinois for a LONG time, if ever. I recently lost my job at the BMI airport, and many more are on the brink. Central Illinois air travel is on the decline. I think this service would do nothing but bleed more money from the Illinois coffers......Money that is not there in the first place. Just my 2 cents.


Jason in KBMI


User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6173 times:



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 8):
If anything out of CLE, those routes would probably start with Commutair and a Q-200 under the Continental Connection banner.

That's what I assumed and meant... I should have said "Continental branded service"..  Wink

Quoting OMA2FAI2SAV (Reply 16):
I recently lost my job at the BMI airport, and many more are on the brink. Central Illinois air travel is on the decline.

Very sad to hear... and perplexing too... BMI has... what, at least 600,000 people within an hour's drive? Is the problem that there's too many seats in cachement area? (5 airports all clumped pretty close together) If BMI can't make it, I don't know how the others can, regardless if PIA is the biggest city, SPI is the capital, and CMI has the U of I.



An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15845 posts, RR: 27
Reply 18, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6092 times:



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 13):
AA seems very happy with its flights from DFW-CMI/BMI/MLI. They all have high average paid fares and have good yeilds.

Which makes me wonder why DL has never tried flights to CVG. Why would they keep having this pissing match with FL when they could almost certainly pull down better yields with a flight or two to CVG?

Quoting OMA2FAI2SAV (Reply 16):
From an airport exec, I was told the only airline close to a profit at BMI is DL.

Was he speaking as if DL included NW Airlink or was he talking as if they were separate? If he was talking about just the DL flights to ATL, I would be surprised to hear that since those flights are there to fight AirTran as much as anything and I'd bet the yields are crap.

Quoting OMA2FAI2SAV (Reply 16):
Air travel is getting tougher here in BMI.

That is true. I've done a lot (relatively) of flying this summer, and it has all been out of ORD or STL. It is too easy to drive, and some of the air fares to BMI are often more expensive the fare to ORD or STL. Plus, I'm not particularly keen on paying extra so I can sit on a CRJ for 2 hours, even if it is a 700.

Quoting OMA2FAI2SAV (Reply 16):
CO to CLE or EWR or US to PHL or CLT would be great, but i dont ee it happening.

I don't either. They have bigger fish to fry.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5703 posts, RR: 52
Reply 19, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6070 times:



Quoting TWFirst (Reply 17):
CMI has the U of I.

By that argument, MWA has SIU-C (Southern Illinois University of Carbondale) in Carbondale, Illinois, big aviation program and ties with MDH, the regional Carbondale Airport named, Southern Illinois Regional Airport.

In STL connecting from ZK is a hassle if you are not going to UA, DL, US, CO, or WN, otherwise, F9, AA and FL are easy to connect with.

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 15):
Cape Girardeau MO -- traffic down 91% since 2005
2000 46.4
2005 31.2
2009 2.7

What did CGI have in 2007 when they HAD code-sharing with Delta Airlines via Big Sky?

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7823 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5994 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 18):
Which makes me wonder why DL has never tried flights to CVG.

Im not sure. But if they havent by now, I can tell you they never will. It might also have to do with the fact that DFW is a much bigger hub.

For fun I looked up the O&D from these airports to the major hubs in the area:

DFW:

CMI- 26
BMI: 33
MLI: 65
PIA: 48

ATL:

CMI: 8
BMI: 212
MLI: 229
PIA: 30

MSP:

CMI: 21
BMI: 22
MLI: 37
PIA: 25



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5939 times:



Quoting Atrude777 (Thread starter):
ZK won't paint the plane for AA's colors....

Why should they? ZK is known for going it alone and being proud of who they are flying under their own banner. What they are doing now is working out very well for them.

Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 4):
Well if I were ZK, I'd dutifully finish out contract and then tell them 'goodbye'.

 checkmark  I agree. I would have done the same thing and then pursue other avenues elsewhere.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineJA From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 579 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5884 times:

There aren't a lot of bigger aircraft left in EAS. He may regret that request.

User currently offlineBrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4416 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5864 times:

You got got love politicians. Someone from their district put a bug in their ears I'm sure. It is not uncommon for a politician to open their mouths without much thought is put into what comes out of it. They think that every small town, village and hamlet they represent should have service. I think that if an airline were to see a profit on a particular route they would get on it right away.


Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineAccess-Air From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1940 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (5 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5838 times:

To fix this situation, the current American Eagle carrier in STL, Trans States if I am correct would need to go back to 19 passenger Ops, Perhaps bring back some Jetstream 31s and run those, that way they would and could provide thru ticketing service into these cities...

Anyone see the problem we have now created with Code Shares and E-tickets????
Back in the 80s, a carrier like Great Lakes could negotiate and thru ticket on ANYONE out of STL because you had paper tickets and joint fares.
So who loses here? The cities that were abandoned by American Connection a few years back are the losers!!!!.....Sure, passengers could drive if they wanted to, but why should they if they have a perfectly viable airport in their hometown?

Technology is not always beneficial to everyone, nor does it make things better.....

Access-Air



Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
25 Zone1 : As someone who lives in central IL I really don't see this going very far. Durbin's track record of getting us new flights is not good. UA's SPI-IAD s
26 BMI727 : I've lived in Central Illinois for 14 years, and I've only ever used BMI, and even that was before the new terminal. My family used PIA once. That sa
27 Ridgid727 : There are not a lot of 6-19 passenger operators left to recruit for this type of service. When Big Sky Shut down operations, many EAS cities in Montan
28 BMI727 : The Twotter is certainly the right size and a great performer, but I fear that that attribute may be its downfall. Like the PC-12, I fear that its pe
29 Flyibaby : If only we still had Air Illinois flying routes like Carbondale-SPI-MDW, etc. Those were the good old days.....
30 Planespotting : Dudes - there's only one way that all these little towns can get right-size air service. It's called regulation. Without that, it ain't gonna happen.
31 BMI727 : I don't know when this was, but I want to say that it was sometime in 08. I think that SkyWest did operate into BMI, but I could be wrong.
32 Toltommy : Lemme guess.... You were ASA and they lost the bid to handle the combined NW/DL ops at BMI, right? Jobs weren't cut due to lack of demand, but due to
33 Atrude777 : Trans States no longer flies for American Airlines under ANY banner, the contract ended. American Eagle at STL is just that, American Eagle. Just say
34 BMI727 : AA contract flying at STL is split between Chautauqua and American Eagle. I want to say that at STL, the 140s are flown by RC and the 145s by MQ, but
35 Knope2001 : CGI had no service for several months. Big Sky started during November 2007, and ended at the end of December 2007. During December '07...the only co
36 AirframeAS : Right, I'm just saying that they shouldn't have to, IMO. What works for ZK shouldn't change. I hope you agree. How well branded is ZK anyway? I mean.
37 EXAAUADL : FL does better to BMI than they do to FNT. DL was actually doing better in PIA (yields) than BMI but DL wants to put pressure on FL in every market.
38 BMI727 : Not surprising considering that FL probably shoots their yields in BMI, but I fear that DL is putting capacity into the market just to compete with F
39 CIDFlyer : seem like they do this at MLI as well, they are up to 5 CR7's to ATL to compete with FL. its too bad something could have been worked out. After Corp
40 Knope2001 : Yes, they bid for these routes with the promise of code sharing with AA. Same as the promise they made when they took over Manistee, Ironwood, and Ir
41 CIDFlyer : That's what I was thinking, it seems like Great Lakes kind of dropped the ball with failing to deliver on a promise. I would agree, I think it would
42 OMA2FAI2SAV : My appologies, I was away for a few days. This comment came before NW/DL were tied up. The problem with DL vs FL in BMI is the fact that the fares are
43 Planespotting : And most of those were Ozark trunk routes from regulation days. My father-in-law lives in southeast Iowa, and he flew about once a month for business
44 BMI727 : Interesting. So do you think that they were siphoning traffic from FL, because of greater connections or FF programs or were they stealing pax from A
45 Highliner2 : What a joke, I saw this coming years ago. Executive Air, Corporate Express...whatever they wanted to call it - used to serve the MWA-STL route and whi
46 BMI727 : To be fair to it, most politicians are clueless when it comes to aviation.
47 MtnWest1979 : If ZK gets pushed out, I'd bet either a) there will be no service to MWA or DEC, or b) hope you like Caravans or PC-12s. And still no codeshare of any
48 OMA2FAI2SAV : The way I understand it, they were slowly siphoning traffic from FL. Then when the CR7 was added to the RON flight, more traffic came to them. The bl
49 BMI727 : I agree. There is enough business traffic in the area and people might be less apt to go to Chicago or St. Louis if they can get first class. In June
50 TWFirst : Back in the 80's, all the cities in the region (SPI/PIA/BMI/DEC/CMI) contributed to a study to look into the feasability of such a facility... the ci
51 OMA2FAI2SAV : Rumor around airport management is DL has mentioned service to MEM. CVG I do not see. With the dropping connection opportunities there, I dont see th
52 BMI727 : Wow, I'd never heard that. That's funny because for all that time NW seemed like an also ran (at least in my mind) compared to FL, UA, and AA. I can'
53 CIDFlyer : I would have to agree with that, a CVG flight will probably never be seen in BMI. CVG keeps losing destinations left and right. If anything they will
54 Atrude777 : How the hell did BMI come into topic when MWA/DEC is topic at hand?! BMI is just fine so far compared to us EAS cities! I re read the article, they ha
55 BMI727 : Because for the most part these airports are more or less interchangeable. It is hard to make a case for DEC with BMI 50 miles up the road.
56 Atrude777 : Granted but MWA is nowhere near BMI so we need a case for MWA here! LOL Alex
57 BMI727 : MWA is different. But still, a drive of a little over 100mi isn't too unreasonable. I've never spent time in the area, but I would guess that a fair
58 AirframeAS : Atrude: MWA is Marion? Am I correct on that assumption?
59 Atrude777 : Yep, Williamson County Regional Airport--Marion/Herrin, Illinois Airport Code KMWA I don't live there but it is the closest commercial airport period
60 AirframeAS : Thanks. How far from you....approximate?
61 Atrude777 : Approx 15-20 minutes or so depending on traffic. Alex
62 Highliner2 : They already tried MWA-Chicago service, it was a disaster. I do agree that Chicago-MWA has far more potential than MWA-STL. I used the MWA-MDW service
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