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Small Plane Crash In Vancouver (Richmond)  
User currently offlineTwinotter4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 213 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8232 times:

Just to let everyone know, there has been a plane crash, smaller plane apparently according to reports. Went down a few Kms east of runway 26R (or for locals near the Knight street bridge near Vickers Way). There are reports of a structure fire, however no word of injuries or the type of aircraft. Obviously doesn't look too good  worried 

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineTwinotter4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8217 times:

early TV report are that it is a Piper Navajo with up to 8 people on board.....New location of crash may be near #5 road and Bridgeport or possibly down the road a little ways at the Richmond automall. The RCMP chopper is at 400ft over the site which which is below the glide slope for 26R. Aircraft are using 26R still which would put it closer to Bridgeport. 26L has been shut for maintenance.

http://d.liveatc.net/cyvr.m3u

http://yvr.webtrak-lochard.com/template/index.html


User currently offlineBartonsayswhat From Canada, joined Oct 2007, 435 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 8021 times:

CTC ch9 says was following close behind an A321, possible wake turbulance. Nice to see the media asking the expert non stupid questions, expert has actually flown this type, and the file photo was of the correct type.



edited for content

[Edited 2009-07-09 23:15:17]

User currently offlineTwinOtter4Ever From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7951 times:

Confirmed it is a PA31 Piper Navajo was on approach to 26R and went down into an industrial park after hitting hydro pole which I noticed 20 miles away (lights flickered). It did indeed go down near #5 and Bridgeport. So far one confirmed dead (on ground or from aircraft..not determined) was following an A/C A321. As per the webtracker, he swung in behind the A321 and did look like he was following a little close within 2-3 KM. Some on the news seem to think it may be wake turbulence as the Navajo seemed to drop out of the sky web tracker showed a quick drop from 900 to 700 ft (may be tracking error) then stabilized (within a few feet) at 700ft and then dropped off radar...large post crash fire...showing burn't out aircraft on TV now  Sad

Now reports of 2 people on board....Sad  Sad RIP


User currently offlineFlyboy2001 From Canada, joined May 2005, 186 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7943 times:

Apparently 2 people believed to be onboard, according to Global reporter who spoke to "people familiar with accident investigations". Witnesses describe the plane as "swerving" wildly before diving nose-first into the ground. Wake turbulence could do that.


And you... Revolution, or just resistance?
User currently offlineTwinOtter4Ever From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7905 times:

Crashed into 2 parked buses and a few cars...Apparently was closing in on residential area 300 ft away..may have been closer to shell and bridgeport.

Kinda odd....The crash is about a block away from the local TSB office....

 Sad


User currently offlineFlyboy2001 From Canada, joined May 2005, 186 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7878 times:

CTV is saying Canadian Air Charters are the operator... Jeez, I know one of their pilots.   

[Edited 2009-07-09 23:31:47]


And you... Revolution, or just resistance?
User currently offlineTwinOtter4Ever From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7849 times:



Quoting Flyboy2001 (Reply 6):
CTV is saying Canadian Air Charters are the operator... Jeez, I know one of their pilots.

I hope it is not the same person...In any case though, a devastating time for this company and those involved.....


User currently offlineDlowwa From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 7328 posts, RR: 30
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7687 times:

Drove by the scene tonight, the RCMP had the area pretty well sealed-off south of Bridgeport and north of 5 Road. The closest anyone can get (even heard a media guy complaining to his producer on the phone that "all I can get is shots of cops directing traffic") is the McDonald's parking lot across from Ikea. The intersection of Bridgeport and Sweden Way about an hour and a half after the fact:

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/3089/imgp118142900.jpg

We'll find out for sure in the morning, but as best I could tell it looks like it went down just to the south-west of Ikea, which is right under the approach path for 26R.

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/1182/googlemaps1247212720431.jpg

Pretty scary, not only for the people who live/work nearby, but for me too... I was at Ikea shopping about four hours before.

So sad, and my condolences go out to the families of the crew and those involved...


User currently offlineYVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 7301 times:

Confirmed Canadian Air Charters C-GNAF, bringing in blood from YYJ.

They have voluntarily suspended operations until Monday, their fleet is parked up behind Avitat.

Was wondering what all the sirens were about as I was getting into bed, even though I have an aircraft fly over every 2 minutes most of the day, the last thing you expect is a plane crash in your neighbourhood...

Lots of comments round YVR today about the "notorious YVR Navajo operators". Its simply not fair to add fuel to that fire at the moment. RIP guys  sorry 



Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
User currently offlineAmritpal From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 7167 times:

Around the same time, I was on Marine Way heading from Queensborough to Boundary road in Vancouver. I pretty much drive parallel to flight path. never saw any flash of fire or anything.

RIP two pilots.



Lost in Translation
User currently offlineYXXMIKE From Canada, joined Apr 2008, 310 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 7116 times:



Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 9):

Lots of comments round YVR today about the "notorious YVR Navajo operators". Its simply not fair to add fuel to that fire at the moment.

The ho' operators as we refer to them are an interesting group of guys and girls. For many of the people that fly a Navajo as a full time job it is the first job that they have got out of flight school, its hard work, long hours and low paying. Not too many people realize that the Navajo operators really supply a life line to some serious industries in this province. Many of these planes are going into the remote communities with cargo, bank mail and things that many of us take for granted.

I have a huge amount of respect for anyone that get inside that airplane and fly it every day because they love their job and want to continue on as a pilot, I have very little respect for the owners of these machines and the way they treat their staff and their equipment. Things have gotten better in the past 3 years for PA-31 pilots but they are by no means perfect. They days of Regency Express/Sonic Blue airways and Nav Air are over ( G-NAF was an ex Nav Air machine) but things could still be better.

RIP Gents


User currently offlinePnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2248 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7025 times:

Is this the aircraft chartered by Canadian Blood Services (Canada's replacement of the Red Cross) and apparently carrying blood products.

User currently offlineConnector4you From Canada, joined May 2001, 932 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7008 times:

RIP

Quoting TwinOtter4Ever (Reply 3):
As per the webtracker, he swung in behind the A321 and did look like he was following a little close within 2-3 KM. Some on the news seem to think it may be wake turbulence

I'm not a pilot or a traffic controller but that 2-3 Km seems like a lot of separation between the A321 and the following Piper. Could that wake turbulence be so strong and persistent at that distance considering that the A321 was slowing down to perhaps 160 knots (correct me if I'm wrong) ? Were the A321 and the Piper lined up for landing on an identical glide slope one behind the other ? The reason I ask is that every day small aircraft are touching down or taking off behind Jumbos at intervals of a few minutes and everything seems to be under control, or not?


User currently offlineYXXMIKE From Canada, joined Apr 2008, 310 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7001 times:



Quoting Pnwtraveler (Reply 12):
Is this the aircraft chartered by Canadian Blood Services (Canada's replacement of the Red Cross) and apparently carrying blood products.

correct, I believe the routing goes YVR - YYJ - YCD two to three times a week


User currently offlineTwinOtter4Ever From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6934 times:

From what the flight tracker had mentioned. The Navajo came in below the flight level of the A321, but from my understanding. Wake turbulence tends to sink and that may have affected the Navajo. will try and do some digging to find the flight levels...though the tracker showed about 700 ft before it went down, while the A321 was closer to 900-1000 at that point. the 2-3 Km was a guesstimate from the tracker....Information on the tracker was not entirely accurate either. the plane disappeared from radar about 2 blocks after it had already crashed..

Incidentally I checked out the crash site and found the plane when down in a very small area. Doesn't appear that it took out any power line though the power was cut off after a little bit. There is a high tension pole and a lower voltage pole site by side. It appears they only contacted the line but they did not fail. In the small area is it amazing there wasn't more carnage. There are houses less than 200 feet away from he crash site. Though fortunately or unfortunately there really isn't any view of the crash site. The industrial yard is surrounded by large concrete blocks and thick blackberry bushes...only thing you really can see are the 2 burnt out buses. unfortunately I didn't have a camera with me at the time though it does seem the aircraft was already moved. Only missed the IKEA by a few hundred feet.


User currently offlineKtachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1794 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6897 times:



Quoting Connector4you (Reply 13):
I'm not a pilot or a traffic controller but that 2-3 Km seems like a lot of separation between the A321 and the following Piper

No, 2-3 km is extremely close from my understanding. Although I work in different departments, I hear from my collegues in the opeartion control centre at our airport authority that there should be at least 5 miles seperation between aircrafts.

We never tend to think that an A321 is a heavy, but when it comes to regional jets, I imagine they are extremely vulnerable.

I saw a Dash 8 on approach to 08L a couple years ago and he was behind a BA B747. The ATC put 6 miles distance but the Dash 8 was still getting hit pretty badly, and he requested to approach higher than the BA.



Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
User currently offlineVirginFlyer From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 4575 posts, RR: 41
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6867 times:



Quoting Connector4you (Reply 13):
I'm not a pilot or a traffic controller but that 2-3 Km seems like a lot of separation between the A321 and the following Piper. Could that wake turbulence be so strong and persistent at that distance considering that the A321 was slowing down to perhaps 160 knots (correct me if I'm wrong) ? Were the A321 and the Piper lined up for landing on an identical glide slope one behind the other ? The reason I ask is that every day small aircraft are touching down or taking off behind Jumbos at intervals of a few minutes and everything seems to be under control, or not?

An aircraft actually produces stronger wake turbulence when it is flying slowly than when it is flying quickly. It is all to do with the wingtip vortices, which become less powerful as the aircraft increases speed.

Looking at my documents for Australia, the separation standard between a medium wake turbulence category aircraft (MTOW less than 136,000kg but more than 7,000kg) and a following light wake turbulence category aircraft (MTOW 7,000kg or less) on approach is 2.5 minutes, or 5nm (=9km). I'd suspect this is fairly standard around the world. So *if* the Navajo was 2-3km behind the A321, it would be very close. However, I think we'd need to see an official report on that rather than the webtrak data before we could be certain what the relative positions of the aircraft were.

Also, assuming your figure of 160 knots (I don't fly transport category jets, so I'm not going to speculate on that being an accurate approach speed, but I *suspect* it may be slightly on the low side), and nil wind, then the few minutes (lets say three) you see between the aircraft equates to 8nm, or about 14.5km...

RIP to the pilots...

V/F



"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
User currently offlineAmritpal From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6689 times:

The area is behind a tall fence. Cannot see anything from the road. And it is not in the IKEA parking lot. Instead, at a mechanical shop across the road.

I heard today that yesterday everything was trucked away.



Big version: Width: 1280 Height: 699 File size: 157kb



Lost in Translation
User currently offlineACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7643 posts, RR: 35
Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6588 times:



Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 11):
For many of the people that fly a Navajo as a full time job it is the first job that they have got out of flight school, its hard work, long hours and low paying. Not too many people realize that the Navajo operators really supply a life line to some serious industries in this province. Many of these planes are going into the remote communities with cargo, bank mail and things that many of us take for granted.

Thought I recognized this when I read The Province today ....

http://www.theprovince.com/news/Pilo...g+their+careers/1783221/story.html

.... 2nd last paragraph.



A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
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