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Air Canada Ordered To Pay Doctor $1000  
User currently offlineYZFOO7F From Canada, joined May 2005, 158 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 8046 times:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/st...2009/07/10/montreal-doctor010.html

Any thoughts on this? How often do doctors claim expenses for their time when they help a pax on a flight?


Promise me you'll always leave the ground
27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline123 From Bolivia, joined Nov 2003, 745 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 8015 times:

I heard of similar problems in the past with LH and they seemed to at least some period of time, to credit bonus miles to Doctors who give on-board assistance.

Airlines don´t forward you free of charge, so why should Doctors work free of charge ?

Correct would be that the patient pays the fees and not the airline unless the mishap is due to their fault.


User currently offlineBeechnut From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 722 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 weeks ago) and read 7828 times:

Wow.

My wife is a family doctor and she was once called to assist on a YUL to YVR flight.

She diagnosed hyperventilation in an elderly and anxious woman. The captain came back to see what was going on and whether he needed to divert. She said negative, the patient is hyperventilating and I'll give her a bit of oxygen and she'll be OK. The captain, having probably seen too many "Marcus Welby, M.D." episodes, thought she should have her breathe in a paper bag (this is no longer current accepted practice!).

She replied "listen, you go back to doing what you do best, flying the plane, and I'll stick to doing what I do best, taking care of the patient and everything will work out just fine". And on they flew to YVR Big grin

She did get a nice letter from AC's medical director as well as a whack of aeroplan points.

Never once did it occur to her to ask for monetary compensation. After all AC did, in the end, carry her to her destination.

Beech


User currently offlineDanfearn77 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 1810 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 weeks ago) and read 7792 times:

Youd do it to help out a fellow person. If i were a doctor and i helped someone out, i wouldnt expect anything. If the airline gave me something, which they dont need to, then that is an added bonus. Some people are just greedy and they want to be compensated for everything. I bet he was rubbing his hands together at the thought of getting 2 business seats. He should be doing it out of kindness.


Eagles may soar high, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines!
User currently offlinePnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2225 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 weeks ago) and read 7785 times:

Paying a doctor for a humanitarian jesture in my mind is pure nonsense. Next they will be carrying a wireless card reader, and if they stop to help you if you have a car accident, ask you before rending any aid, will that be VISA or Mastercard? Whatever happened to Good Samaritans? I think AC offering points is a nice move and good on them. Someone should turn around and charge this doctor for the time wasted in his waiting room when he gets backed up and keep you waiting.

User currently offlineThestooges From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 weeks ago) and read 7730 times:

My mother is an emergency physician and has regularly assisted with passenger on long trans-pacific flights like on SYD-LAX. She is usually given an upgrade to business or some other kind of benefit.

Isn't there something called the hypocratic oath that doctors must take saying that they must help someone in need of medical assistance ???


User currently offlineGr8Circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3092 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 weeks ago) and read 7702 times:



Quoting Thestooges (Reply 5):
Isn't there something called the hypocratic oath that doctors must take saying that they must help someone in need of medical assistance ???

Hippocratic oath is what all doctors are supposed to take......"hypocratic" is what most doctors turn out to be Big grin


User currently offlineDirectorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1651 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 weeks ago) and read 7678 times:

The guy supposedly wants to donate the $1000 to a hospital. So he went through all of this just to donate money to a hospital?

User currently offlineCrazyfoo88 From Canada, joined Feb 2005, 81 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 weeks ago) and read 7662 times:



Quoting Directorguy (Reply 7):

All the bad publicity has made him rethink more than likely. Shame it always comes down to this



crazyfoo88
User currently offlineRacko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4856 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 weeks ago) and read 7623 times:

Lufthansa awards every doctor who identifies himself and is willing to help 5000 miles per flight. If they actually have to help someone they get iirc 35.000 miles extra.

User currently offlineGolfradio From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 748 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7496 times:

I thought he volunteered in the first place. Whatever happened to the good old values of helping someone in need without expecting to be rewarded.

Quote:
He asked a small claims court for $3,058, which he calculated as the equivalent of an executive-class fare, the value of medical services rendered and compensation for a day of vacation lost

Looks like he was waiting for an opportunity like this to milk it.


User currently offlineYZFOO7F From Canada, joined May 2005, 158 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7425 times:



Quoting Golfradio (Reply 10):
I thought he volunteered in the first place. Whatever happened to the good old values of helping someone in need without expecting to be rewarded.

Agreed. I wouldn't expect or even really want monetary compensation for a situation like this.


I can't imagine that he was intending to donate the money to a hospital all along. Seems to me that its a result of the bad press he's getting.



Promise me you'll always leave the ground
User currently offlineFxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7186 posts, RR: 86
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7334 times:
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Hope this affects his pocketbook negatively; shame on him.  no 

Quoting Racko (Reply 9):
Lufthansa awards every doctor who identifies himself and is willing to help 5000 miles per flight. If they actually have to help someone they get iirc 35.000 miles extra.

Can anyone confirm this?  eyepopping 


User currently offlineTxjim From United States of America, joined May 2008, 240 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7184 times:

I read different motivation into the news article. The doctor offered to help, was told he was not needed and was then awakened twice, the second time simply to fill out forms. I believe his point was that he was unnecessarily disturbed and wanted two tickets to make up for being awakened.

He also stated that the $1000 awarded would be donated to a hospital so the motivation was not monetary.

One can argue that taking AC to court because he could not have undisturbed sleep is a bit over the top (I tend to agree) but I don't see him as a greedy doctor. Simply a pissed-off one.


User currently offlineBakersdozen From Canada, joined Nov 2006, 336 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7156 times:

This CBC article is poorly written to be very biased against the doctor.

Have a read through this Montreal Gazette article as it seems to get to the heart of the story. The Doctor has a point and AC SHOULD be thankful for his help. You would think it would be the least they could do.

http://www.canada.com/topics/bodyand...64d9cb-2e5e-4c2a-9ca4-b347396a6f6f


User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8941 posts, RR: 40
Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7156 times:

If it was my airline, I would reimburse the guy for his seat. He worked rather than sit on his ass on a comfy business class seat that he shelled out thousands for.

I wouldn't expect to pay for the help, or even get paid for it if I was a doctor.

[Edited 2009-07-10 13:58:42]


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineArrow From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 2676 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7027 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Txjim (Reply 13):
The doctor offered to help, was told he was not needed and was then awakened twice, the second time simply to fill out forms. I believe his point was that he was unnecessarily disturbed and wanted two tickets to make up for being awakened.

I think the doctor was entitled to something more than AC offered. He was brought back into a situation that was already being handled by another doctor -- and asked to overrule that doctor. Which he did. That's not an easy decision to make, and I think it's interesting that it was the FA who had concerns about the other doctor's credentials. There was a lot of potential for that alone to cause problems, especially if the other doctor decided to make an issue of it with the Quebec Medical Association.

Bottom line: he would have been within his rights to stay in his seat, once advised that another physician was on the job. He intervened at the specific request of the crew.

Fortunately for all of them, it was a minor medical issue. If it had been major, with an unhappy result, there'd be lawsuits flying all over the place.,



Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19371 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6920 times:



Quoting PPVRA (Reply 15):
If it was my airline, I would reimburse the guy for his seat. He worked rather than sit on his ass on a comfy business class seat that he shelled out thousands for.

I wouldn't expect to pay for the help, or even get paid for it if I was a doctor.

As a physician, I agree completely.

I work because I am so passionate about it that I took an oath to do it whenever I could. "
That into whatsoever house I shall enter, it shall be for the good of the sick to
the utmost of my power;"

It is a privilege and an honor to provide my services whenever they are required.

But this physician bought (with currency and mileage assessed a monetary value by airlines) a J-class ticket. So he spent the night working. All well and good, but an A/C the size of anything from a 767 to a 773 didn't have to land because of him. TWICE. And when you're a a doctor, "I need you right know" has a very specific meaning to it. And it gets really obnoxious when you have to spend a good part of that filling out paperwork.

AC could have saved a lot of money in legal fees by simply being polite and appreciative. AFTER landing: "Thank you, Doctor. We have some forms for you to fill out, and then as a token of our appreciation allow us to take you to your hotel and won't you please have a shower in our premium lounge to help you get a fresh start on your day?" It would have cost AC maybe $100 to make such a gesture. If you run an honest business and treat your customers the right way, you will get sued less. Especially when a customer goes above and beyond the call of duty to help you out.

I bet that if he had received that, he wouldn't have been so upset.


User currently offlineLH431 From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6724 times:



Quoting Racko (Reply 9):
Lufthansa awards every doctor who identifies himself and is willing to help 5000 miles per flight. If they actually have to help someone they get iirc 35.000 miles extra.

If I remember correct you get 5000 miles if you register your doctors degree at your miles&more account. So the crew can identify you on the passenger manifest. If there is a case where you help someone you are entitled to 35.000 miles extra.



There is a better way to fly
User currently offlineThestooges From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6709 times:



Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 6):
Hippocratic oath is what all doctors are supposed to take......"hypocratic" is what most doctors turn out to be

Ha, ha, I thought I had spelled it wrong !!!


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19371 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5936 times:



Quoting LH431 (Reply 18):

If I remember correct you get 5000 miles if you register your doctors degree at your miles&more account. So the crew can identify you on the passenger manifest. If there is a case where you help someone you are entitled to 35.000 miles extra.

I don't know how much I'd be comfortable with this. It sounds a bit too much like being paid for my services. For those who are comfortable with it, go right ahead, of course. But something about it doesn't feel right to me. I'd feel responsible on each flight, I guess.

I've had medical emergencies (or urgencies) jump out and surprise me just about anywhere where I would be in contact with the general public. Malls, subway stations, subway trains (several times), a high-speed train, the street. Interestingly not a plane, though.


User currently offlineBeechnut From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 722 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5740 times:



Quoting Arrow (Reply 16):
I think the doctor was entitled to something more than AC offered. He was brought back into a situation that was already being handled by another doctor -- and asked to overrule that doctor. Which he did. That's not an easy decision to make, and I think it's interesting that it was the FA who had concerns about the other doctor's credentials. There was a lot of potential for that alone to cause problems, especially if the other doctor decided to make an issue of it with the Quebec Medical Association.

Minor quibble: the Quebec Medical Association which is an affiliate of the Canadian Medical Association has nothing to do with it. It's not a regulatory body but is a physician's association providing members with various benefits and lobbying much like the AOPA and COPA for private pilots; as such it has no power to settle disputes between physicians or discipline physician misconduct. The proper place for a dispute would be the Collège des médecins du Québec, which is the regulatory, licensing and disciplinary body. Sorry for the trivia but as I work in the field, I think it's important that people understand how things work and who is responsible for what. And of course we can't assume that the other physician was Canadian and from Quebec, s/he may have been neither and thus out of jurisdictional reach of the Collège.

That said I agree with you, there's probably more to this story than meets the eye. Surely we aviators are aware of how journalism distorts aviation, and I can tell you, being near the medical field both in my work (analyst and product manager for clinical software) and my private life (physician spouse), I can tell you that journalists mostly get it wrong with medicine as well, preferring the sensational sell to looking at both sides of the story to unearth the truth. I lost count of the number of times I read in the newspaper the implication that doctors are greedy because they earn $300k a year without the qualifier that they pay up to 50% in overhead (clinic rent, staff, equipment, malpractice insurance, etc), have no pension plan, work crazy hours, require a minimum of 7 years of post-secondary education + internship and residency to get the precious MD and license to practice, have heavy debts to pay off when they graduate, are not compensated for time off, etc.

It might just be that the good doctor ended up on the flight from hell, delays, etc, and wanted compensation for the trouble just like many of us request when the airline drops the ball.

Beech


User currently offlineGolfradio From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 748 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5353 times:

The way I see it, the doctor paid for and wanted to enjoy his J class ticket. Fair enough. In such a case please do not volunteer if you think volunteering is going to rob you of your comfort. It is worthless if you volunteer to help someone and then complain about the extra trouble that caused you.

Good Samaritans do not help people and then go about claiming compensation because they missed their train or could not sleep or had to spend money from their own pockets. My sister always volunteers on flights when called for and does it knowing fully well that she would be handed a wad of papers, will have to spend a lot of time on the flight filling them and spend some extra time on the ground handing over the patient to the attending medical team in cases of serious emergencies.

Just my  twocents 


User currently offlineGasman From New Zealand, joined Mar 2004, 857 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5073 times:

I am a doctor myself.

While most of us have a fundamental desire to help our fellow man, practising medicine at 35,000 ft in a noisy and cramped aircraft, without equipment and trying to make a judgment call as to whether or not to divert the plane is a pretty unenviable experience. There is also the very real issue that the physician is exposing themselves to potential litigation if things don't work out for the best.

A colleague of mine once spent 4 hours assisting a critically unwell passenger, and all he received in the way of thanks was a vinyl airline wallet.

It needs to be remembered by either the passenger or the airline that a significant service is being provided, and it should be recognised by some form of appropriate thanks.


User currently offlineEDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (5 years 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4648 times:

I am a Registered Nurse

On one occasion I have found it necessary to intervene in an emergency, when a child (I think she was about 8 or 9 years old) had choked on a sweet. Of course I acted quickly and without hesitation without thought of reward. Thankfully at the 2nd attempt the Heimlich Manouvre proved successful and the youngster was none the worse for the experience.

Quoting Gasman (Reply 23):
There is also the very real issue that the physician is exposing themselves to potential litigation if things don't work out for the best.

Well that consideration is not an option for Nurses. The Nursing Councils in both the UK and NZ consider it a serious case of professional misconduct to fail to render assistance in an emergency situation. In France if you fail to render medical assistance in an emergency you are committing a criminal offence.

Any healthcare profession is a vocation not a job


25 Francoflier : A bit off topic, but how is oxygen an acceptable remedy for hyperventilation? Wouldn't it make the situation worse? As far as the paper bag goes, it
26 Gasman : It isn't. No, it wouldn't affect things either way, unless the cause of hyperventialtion is a deficiency in oxygen delivery to the tissues rather tha
27 Post contains links Fn1001 : Also in Israel: http://tinyurl.com/kslhz9 and Germany: http://dejure.org/gesetze/StGB/323c.html
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