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NWA Flight Attendants Challenge Uniform Sizes  
User currently offlineMcdu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1487 posts, RR: 17
Posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 11168 times:

"The union that represents flight attendants who worked for Northwest Airlines before it was bought by Delta Air Lines is crying foul over Delta's failure to offer bigger sizes for its signature red dress uniform designed by Richard Tyler."


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31856740/ns/travel-news/

61 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10653 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 11161 times:



Quoting Mcdu (Thread starter):
"The union that represents flight attendants who worked for Northwest Airlines before it was bought by Delta Air Lines is crying foul over Delta's failure to offer bigger sizes for its signature red dress uniform designed by Richard Tyler."

Oh, so THIS is what's holding up the voting, eh??  Yeah sure



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3827 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10994 times:

Earth to NWAFA: Delta Air Lines is not Lane Bryant.

I know someone who works as a pilot for DL on the NW side. He says that when it gets up to the maximum size (DL's maximum is US size 18), the red dresses start looking frumpy. And size 28 (the number NWAFA wants the red dress to go up to) is huge, as in block-the-aisle huge!

(For those of you non-US a.netters, Lane Bryant is a US-based women's clothing store that specializes in fashion for sizes 14-28.)

[Edited 2009-07-11 09:28:49]


"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineTu154m From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 683 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10971 times:

Like DL/NW needs anyone larger or older in the aisles...........the grand old ladys need to retire(the F/A's not the airplanes). Seriously, these older flight attendants are cranky, and they don't portray the best image. Plus, could any of them really get out of an overwing exit???? Seriously......at size 28 they will be known as the flying aisle tomatoes.


CEOs should swim with cement flippers!
User currently offlineDL Widget Head From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2100 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10916 times:

The NWA AFA should focus their attention on resolving representation issues instead of picking a fight with DL over outfitting their plus sized flight attendants in the red dress. Not every woman can wear the red dress well just like every woman can't wear a bikini well. This ridiculous and meaningless turmoil that the AFA would like to create is just another example of why DL F/A's (including pre merger NW F/A's) are better off without a union.

User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10875 times:



Quoting Tu154m (Reply 3):
Like DL/NW needs anyone larger or older in the aisles...........the grand old ladys need to retire(the F/A's not the airplanes). Seriously, these older flight attendants are cranky, and they don't portray the best image. Plus, could any of them really get out of an overwing exit???? Seriously......at size 28 they will be known as the flying aisle tomatoes

That's really uncalled for. Regardless of age or size, these people are there to make a living and to see that you are taken care of while under their care. BTW, they are also human beings with rights. I agree, the AFA should worry about other stuff but it is an issue they feel they need to address and that's all it really boils down to. Hey, as some on here say, nobody has a gun to your head making you fly them!



Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8508 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10816 times:



Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 2):
And size 28 (the number NWAFA wants the red dress to go up to) is huge, as in block-the-aisle huge!

Does Delta or Northwest have any FAs who wear a size 26 or 28? I can't say that I've ever seen an FA that big. 18 isn't exactly a small size for women either.


User currently offlineGayStudPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 457 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 10733 times:

As the world's largest airline Delta should NOT promote obesity!!

Instead it should help educate its flight crews on how to make healthy food choices when traveling and how to exercise on the road. Sat fat, trans fat, sodium, proper portions, required protein, etc.

Unfortunately it's tough with grueling schedules and an abundance of readily available processed food that is junk and served in portions that are out of control. You have to educate yourself. You have to have will power and work at it. But it's up to YOU. You want that red signature dress? Then work on getting your body in shape to fit in the sizes offered.

I work hard to stay fit and it infuriates me sometimes when I see obese flight attendants whose uniforms look like housecoats. Or, "Look at you, you can eat anything you want." I look like I can eat anything I want because I ran up and down stairs for 45 minutes at the hotel this morning... and because I don't eat everything I want! Compare the nutritional value of the two cups of yogurt and apple I had for breakfast to the Egg McMuffin and hash browns from McDonalds that you had.

So Delta, NO, just say NO. Stop the madness! Stop making it easy for employees to be obese. And... help stop obesity in America.


User currently offlineRacers22 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 175 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 10714 times:

Unless there is a medical reason, LOSE SOME WEIGHT...

User currently offlineCokePopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1190 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 10692 times:

I personally believe that its bad enough they offer it in a size 18.
What will happen is, if Delta is "forced" to offer it
in a larger size then they will just discontinue it all together. The
AFA isn't making many friends these days. First, not participating in
seniority integration talks, then delaying a vote, now this....


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21582 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 10553 times:



Quoting Lexy (Reply 5):

True, but what does that have to do with complaining because all uniform options aren't available in all sizes? Some people should have enough sense and self respect to know that not all things look good on them, and a giant red dress would not look good on them.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 10508 times:



Quoting Evan767 (Reply 10):

IIRC the NWAFA/ DAL-S F/As havent set a date.......same for the IAM IIRC. At least i haven't seen anything on it.



yep.
User currently offlineType-Rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 10499 times:

A woman that is 5'6" tall and takes a Sixe 18 dress is usually around 175 lbs. The same woman who would take a size 28 would be at least 225 lbs. We are definitely getting into obesity here.

If the airlines saved a ton of money on jet fuel simply by replacing glass mini bottles with plastic, just think how much they could save with weight proportionate to height F/A's.

I was on a AA flight last year that had an F/A that was very large. I wondered how she even made it down the aisle. When she served a drink to someone on the opposite side of the plane, the person in the aisle seat (me!) on the other side had her as* in their face!


User currently offlineVapar8 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 69 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 10485 times:



Quoting GayStudPilot (Reply 7):
Compare the nutritional value of the two cups of yogurt and apple I had for breakfast to the Egg McMuffin and hash browns from McDonalds that you had.

Hey now the Egg McMuffin is the best thing you can get there for breakfast. Not so much the hash browns. Only 300 cal but 20g of protein.
Serious how would someone over a size 18 fit down the isle. Talk about getting bumped into.


User currently offlineChgoflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 10385 times:

NW has always had the largest F/A's out there. Its amazing. I had a larger F/A ask me not long ago if I was "OK" and "able" with the emergancy exit procedure. I kept thinking to myself- you use a door because there is no way you'd fit thru this window..


Will someone please wake me up in 4 years
User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2858 posts, RR: 48
Reply 15, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 10313 times:



Quoting Lexy (Reply 5):
BTW, they are also human beings with rights.

They have a right to wear a red dress?

Quoting Lexy (Reply 5):
Regardless of age or size, these people are there to make a living and to see that you are taken care of while under their care.

And they can do that without wearing a red dress.

Quoting CokePopper (Reply 9):
I personally believe that its bad enough they offer it in a size 18.

 checkmark 

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 11):
True, but what does that have to do with complaining because all uniform options aren't available in all sizes? Some people should have enough sense and self respect to know that not all things look good on them, and a giant red dress would not look good on them.

 checkmark  Even at the larger current sizes it's unflattering to put it kindly.

I am certainly glad to see that AFA is focusing on their top priorities.


User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 10147 times:



Quoting PGNCS (Reply 16):
They have a right to wear a red dress?

You misunderstood me. I was talking about people who are old or of size. Perhaps you understand it a bit better now?



Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offlineYXwatcherMKE From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1020 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 9835 times:

My Word what is wrong here is that the union is not helping the F/A's live a health life style. My wife wears a size 18 and the Doctor told her that she needs to lose weight, NOW! Plus she does not like the way she looks at this size! And she is 5-7. Really can not believe that the NWA union is not helping their people get healthy. I can't say I've Noticed F/A's on other carriers that were over weight. Or am I just taking a blind eye to it?


I miss the 60's & 70's when you felt like a guest on the plane not cattle like today
User currently offline1stfl94 From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 1455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 9699 times:

Wow, all those flight attendants who could be losing jobs in the current climate and trying to sort seniority in a massive merger but of course wearing a dress is more important. Why would you join this union, its nearly as bad as the Alitalia ones!

User currently offlineCdgdtw From United States of America, joined May 2003, 200 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 9370 times:

Great to see such maturity and level headed thinking in this discussion.

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25989 posts, RR: 22
Reply 20, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 9304 times:



Quoting Chgoflyer (Reply 15):
I had a larger F/A ask me not long ago if I was "OK" and "able" with the emergancy exit procedure. I kept thinking to myself- you use a door because there is no way you'd fit thru this window..

How things have changed since the 1960s. Following UA documents from the late 1960s (and related union letter dated 1970). UA stewardesses (as they were called then -- very few male flight attendants on US carriers then) had to be weighed in monthly, could only do that job until they were 32, and were not permitted to marry.
http://chnm.gmu.edu/cabinandcrew/evidence/documents/weight.html
http://chnm.gmu.edu/cabinandcrew/evidence/documents/emploment.html
http://chnm.gmu.edu/cabinandcrew/evidence/documents/alpa32.html


User currently offlineELAL772 From Israel, joined Jun 2008, 158 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 9428 times:



Quoting PGNCS (Reply 16):

Quoting Lexy (Reply 5):
BTW, they are also human beings with rights.

They have a right to wear a red dress?

No, they have the right to not be discriminated against due to size.

That being said, it is beyond me why a women who wears these sizes would want to wear the DL red dress.
The issue isn't how these obese f/a look while they work and how they are percieved by pax.
The issue is why aren't these ladies being forced to lose weight for their OWN health and appearance, and why is this STUPID union helping them avoid thier medical issues by demanding they get the dress at such a big size.
The other issue that should be adressed is their ability to perfrom their inflight duties (service and safety)


User currently offlineCdgdtw From United States of America, joined May 2003, 200 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 9028 times:



Quoting ELAL772 (Reply 26):
The issue is why aren't these ladies being forced to lose weight for their OWN health and appearance, and why is this STUPID union helping them avoid thier medical issues by demanding they get the dress at such a big size.

OK - let's be clear about this. The union does not presume to tell women or men what size they should be and how they might attain that goal. The union is not the eating or health police. The function of the union is to uphold the collective bargaining agreement, principles of just cause, and the advancement of the flight attendant profession.

Agreeing that only certain sizes may order certain uniform pieces is the start of taking this group back decades. How many would the over size 18 affect? 10? 20? 1? It doesn't matter. If there is one person who wishes to order this dress in a size 20 (which by current red dress size standards is probably around a size 16), should she be denied?

The union is not wrapping itself around the red dress, but it does try to effect change when it feels policies are discriminatory. The media love this story because of its (apparent) hot button capability. Do you all get "forced" to lose weight at your jobs?

Seriously.


User currently offlineWestjet!Eh! From Canada, joined Jul 2001, 153 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 8891 times:

In my opinion, fat cabin crews won't look good when they wear red dress. It depends on the shape and the size. Don't you agree?

User currently offlineSsublyme From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 517 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 8832 times:



Quoting Cdgdtw (Reply 27):
Do you all get "forced" to lose weight at your jobs?

Every job has it's limits on what is acceptable to perform the job satisfactorily. It's really that simple. Lets not act like any size 24 person can be an effective F/A.

On the flip side though, is there a max size a passenger can be before they are turned away? Some "oversize" passengers area already forced to buy two seats etc, at what point do they say "sorry, you won't be able to fit down the aisle/emergency exit in the event of an emergency, you cannot board".


25 DocLightning : Here's what I don't get: how do airlines in other countries, like SQ, get away with these sorts of weight/age policies without creating a fuss? SQ's S
26 NWAESC : I hope no one ever fires you for "being too old." Your profile says you're 36-45... Might not be too far out of the realm of possibility.
27 NWAESC : To be honest, I hope they do. Of all that I've seen wearing it (big, small, short, tall), *maybe* 10% look decent in it. ...And before any of the usu
28 OA412 : Exactly. People don't seem to grasp the function of the union or the reason that they are even fighting this policy. That's what I don't understand a
29 Jamake1 : I totally appreciate the value of being represented by a collective bargaining agreement in the airline industry, but believe this has gone way too fa
30 Brilondon : Are there not size requirements for the F/A's? I think that size 18 is quite large. I have no clue though when it comes to women's' dress sizes. As a
31 Chgoflyer : Proof- The proof is I said so. You have the fattest angrest oldest f/a's in the entire global airline industry. If it was not the case the union woul
32 OA412 : Oftentimes, labor laws in countries that can fire/hire an FA based primarily on looks are extremely weak and/or non-existent. What happens in most of
33 OA412 : It's amazing what people are willing to say about overweight people. You sometimes have to remind yourself that most of the people making these comme
34 DocLightning : Anyone know about Singapore's labor laws?
35 Chgoflyer : When it comes to the size and overall fitness of the person trained and paid to evacuate me and others in an emergency it is far more than "talking a
36 Mayor : I sincerely doubt if there are any flight attendants out there between size 18 and 28. That being said, I can't imagine what the AFA is getting at. Ar
37 KGAIflyer : Okay, I know whose name is on the dress. And it *is* stylish on anorexic supermodel types. And it looks comfortable -- like those Diane von Furstenber
38 Mayor : Nope, remember what they say about "assume".......
39 SkyguyB727 : That is very well put. I wish airlines in the United States enforced their appearnce standards like the foreign airlines do. Once while checking in a
40 KGAIflyer : Cartouche.
41 DeltaMD90 : A lot do. Look at the US Military. There are a few million people right there!
42 Kevin752 : I agree with mostly everyone here. That dress will look really really bad if it is worn by someone of size. I am a bit fat but I know what to wear and
43 Tu154m : Actually, I am 54, and would love to retire. To many "raking over the coals" and benefit cuts in the airline industry to retire. Plus, as a US citize
44 XFSUgimpLB41X : This whole red dress thing is about looking sharp. Watching the Kool-aid lady squeeze into that very form fitting dress doesn't exactly look sharp or
45 Commavia : In a word: discrimination. But there are many reasons. In many other countries, including Singapore, the airlines are not held to the same legal requ
46 C767P : This really shows just how unprofessional some of these flight attendants are. They'll probably have their picket signs and start marching outside of
47 SkyguyB727 : At the same time, agents at European airports do not have to stand for eight hours (back and foot fatigue) or lift and twist with heavy bags (potenti
48 Post contains links Tharanga : Hooters actually gets sued now and then by a bunch of wise-asses. Here's one article I found, in which they settled. http://www.nytimes.com/1997/10/0
49 SkyguyB727 : There is no "assortment of uniforms". On all NW and DL flights, there is only one uniform: the Delta uniform. That has been the case since the end of
50 EASTERN : If the majority of uniform pieces are available in plus sizes, what is the difference if one piece is only offered in specific sizes? I believe they a
51 Lightsaber : My main concern about this union complaint is that its going to send the wrong message. A F/A is there for safety. Otherwise, skip the training and hi
52 Ikramerica : Do you? What does offering a uniform in size 28 have to do with a collective bargaining agreement? If that's in there, that's one over written agreem
53 Post contains links DocLightning : Yet, honey. After we complete our nefarious agenda, she'll be the norm! She'll be your kid's first grade teacher! MWHAHAHAHAHAHA!! eh... ahem. 'scuse
54 Post contains links Melpax : I would've thought that it'd be very unsafe for an FA to operate effictively in an emergency if they were 'of size', especially in the confines of an
55 USAFDO : Thank God for the union..... DL...get it together....it's a new day, and an new airline!!!! You have to...HAVE TO keep it fair & equitable......
56 NASBWI : To be honest, it can be unsafe if the FA's weight interferes with his/her ability to do their job. This is why most airlines will specify that an app
57 Post contains links OA412 : I understand them quite well, thank you very much. I highly doubt that uniform sizes are listed in the agreement. Personally, I've never seen a contr
58 Tsaord : O dear. I hope they don't win. That was the purpose...everyone is not made for that dress. Hell even the blue ones lol. And so it begins!!!
59 TheCommodore : NASBWI, if in your own words you are "over weight" according to the body mass index then that is exactly what you are OVER WEIGHT. How else do you exp
60 KiwiRob : Austrian Airlines wear an all red uniform, on some women it looks great, however they all remind me of mrs santa, the red stockings don't help. Snap,
61 Scbriml : OK, this thread is being locked - I have wasted 30 minutes of my life deleting low-quality, childish and totally unacceptable posts. I apologise to th
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