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US (Legacy) Airline Strengths  
User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1576 posts, RR: 2
Posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4443 times:

I just got to thinking about how the legacies match up geographically and in terms of their focus/high-yielding routes. Here is what I have so far -- please comment/amend as appropraite if I am wrong in any regard. Note: while there may be some debate, I am classifiying US as a legacy since they are (even post-merger) a continuation of a legacy carrier, just as I am including NW under DL now, but am keeping CO separate from UA since there is nothing official as of yet.

AA- They obviously have a commanding presence in Latin American traffic due to MIA (does SJU still do much connecting traffic to Latin America?); a nice "world gateway" hub at DFW, so that together with BNA and whatever is left at RDU I would imagine covers the South relatively well; ORD and to a lesser extent STL cover the Midwest pretty well (is ORD the #2 hub?); plus pretty nice East Coast ops at BOS, LGA, DCA; and a decent, although not commanding, West Coast presence from their focus city(?) at LAX. In terms of routes, the premium product on LAX-JFK,and transatlantic JFK-LHR (is this still dominant given the opening up of LHR?), but not sure about others.

CO- EWR is a nice "world gateway", and I'd imagine they get some good East Coast feed there; CLE gives a modest MW and EWR reliever presence; IAH I would presume has pretty good LA traffic similar to MIA, and again a bunch of int'l connections like EWR (altho, like MIA, is IAH a bit too far south to cover the South well as a connecting hub?). Other than whatever remains of Continental Micronesia, I am really not sure of CO's real strengths or focus routes.

DL- Massive ATL hub covers South/Southeast wonderfully for them, and another "world gateway" setup; MEM (whatever comes of it) makes a nice reliever for South ops; SLC covers interior West and provides good connections to the West Coast; JFK makes a nice transatlantic jumping off point (what's the feed like for them at JFK?); relatively strong up and down the East Coast - BOS, LGA, JFK, DCA, ATL, MCO, FLL; very strong ATL-Florida lift; wit hteh addition of MSP, they now have better coverage of great plains and upper Midwest. I would presume they do pretty well on most of the long-haul stuff (DXB, NRT, PVG, TLV, JNB, etc.) plus ATL-LAX, but not sure other than those what their most lucrative routes are; and even if its not high-yielding they do a lot of East-Coast-Florida flying for sure.

UA- Good Midwest coverage from ORD; good Mid-Atlantic from IAD; interior West/great plains at DEN; solid West Coast from SFO and LAX; PS competes with AA on lucrative premium JFK-LAX/SFO routes. AFAIK, it seems like UA is pretty weak in the South/SE nowadays, and I'm not sure about anything in the East other than IAD. Routes to Oz, NRT, China I would guess to be good moneymakers--what about *A hubs like FRA?

US- I see US as having a "H-shaped" route network, with good East and West Coast coverage with little more than connecting routes between them -- strong West Coast/SW presence at PHX; sizable ops at LAS I guess would help relieve PHX a bit too; great East Coast/NE coverage from PHL, BOS, LGA, DCA; and SE from CLT. Like UA, I don't see a large Southern presence for US (my thinking being that CLT is far enough East that it cannot do much for the likes of AR, AL, MS, LA, TX, TN).

All comments/insights/corrections are appreciated! I want to stress that I am just trying to understand each arline's presence, not favor one, and certainly not spout off my own knowledge (which is limited).


 duck   flamed   footinmouth   stirthepot 

33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16866 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4420 times:



Quoting LHCVG (Thread starter):
CO- EWR is a nice "world gateway", and I'd imagine they get some good East Coast feed there; CLE gives a modest MW and EWR reliever presence; IAH I would presume has pretty good LA traffic similar to MIA, and again a bunch of int'l connections like EWR (altho, like MIA, is IAH a bit too far south to cover the South well as a connecting hub?). Other than whatever remains of Continental Micronesia, I am really not sure of CO's real strengths or focus routes.

EWR gives CO the strongest position of any carrier in the NYC market, and IAH is a large business center which is riding out the current economic downturn much better than the rest of the Country.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4394 times:
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Quoting LHCVG (Thread starter):
DL- Massive ATL hub covers South/Southeast wonderfully for them, and another "world gateway" setup; MEM (whatever comes of it) makes a nice reliever for South ops; SLC covers interior West and provides good connections to the West Coast; JFK makes a nice transatlantic jumping off point (what's the feed like for them at JFK?); relatively strong up and down the East Coast - BOS, LGA, JFK, DCA, ATL, MCO, FLL; very strong ATL-Florida lift; wit hteh addition of MSP, they now have better coverage of great plains and upper Midwest. I would presume they do pretty well on most of the long-haul stuff (DXB, NRT, PVG, TLV, JNB, etc.) plus ATL-LAX, but not sure other than those what their most lucrative routes are; and even if its not high-yielding they do a lot of East-Coast-Florida flying for sure.

DL need to work out with a solution for the big number of Hubs and focus cities, some of them too close to others. And need to do that trying not to lost many customers.

Quoting LHCVG (Thread starter):
(is this still dominant given the opening up of LHR?),

Dominant i don't think so, but still an important player and route. There's more LHR service which for sure diminish the power of JFK-LHR to attract connections.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1576 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4236 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 2):
DL need to work out with a solution for the big number of Hubs and focus cities, some of them too close to others. And need to do that trying not to lost many customers.

I cagree wholeheartedly -- when I count DL "hubs" nowadays and get to using two hands...I think that's a bit too many (not too mention some being too close, as you say)


User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9209 posts, RR: 20
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4141 times:



Quoting LHCVG (Thread starter):
AFAIK, it seems like UA is pretty weak in the South/SE nowadays, and I'm not sure about anything in the East other than IAD.

They could probably send all the South?Southease traffic through IAD. Aren't/didn't they expanding IAD in terms of terminal space and/or runways?



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineJohns624 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 923 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4121 times:



Quoting LHCVG (Thread starter):
DL- Massive ATL hub covers South/Southeast wonderfully for them, and another "world gateway" setup; MEM (whatever comes of it) makes a nice reliever for South ops; SLC covers interior West and provides good connections to the West Coast; JFK makes a nice transatlantic jumping off point (what's the feed like for them at JFK?); relatively strong up and down the East Coast - BOS, LGA, JFK, DCA, ATL, MCO, FLL; very strong ATL-Florida lift; wit hteh addition of MSP, they now have better coverage of great plains and upper Midwest. I would presume they do pretty well on most of the long-haul stuff (DXB, NRT, PVG, TLV, JNB, etc.) plus ATL-LAX, but not sure other than those what their most lucrative routes are; and even if its not high-yielding they do a lot of East-Coast-Florida flying for sure.

I believe that DL has a decent sized hub at DTW also... Big grin


User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1576 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4041 times:



Quoting Johns624 (Reply 5):
I believe that DL has a decent sized hub at DTW also...

AFAIK you would be correct  banghead 


User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3959 times:



Quoting LHCVG (Thread starter):
UA- Good Midwest coverage from ORD; good Mid-Atlantic from IAD; interior West/great plains at DEN; solid West Coast from SFO and LAX; PS competes with AA on lucrative premium JFK-LAX/SFO routes. AFAIK, it seems like UA is pretty weak in the South/SE nowadays, and I'm not sure about anything in the East other than IAD. Routes to Oz, NRT, China I would guess to be good moneymakers--what about *A hubs like FRA?

United also has a strong European network from IAD second only to Continental and Delta (in terms of destinations), as well as a nice Asian network besides NRT.


User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1576 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3903 times:



Quoting Rjpieces (Reply 7):
as well as a nice Asian network besides NRT.

Where all do they still fly? I can only think of NRT, HKG, PVG, PEK offhand, so I don't know where else they go in Asia (of course SYD is there as well)


User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5955 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3899 times:



Quoting LHCVG (Reply 8):
Where all do they still fly? I can only think of NRT, HKG, PVG, PEK offhand, so I don't know where else they go in Asia (of course SYD is there as well)

BKK, SIN, KIX, ICN, SGN, NRT, HKG, PVG & PEK in Asia (KWI and DXB from IAD as well) SYD and MEL in Oz.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9209 posts, RR: 20
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3678 times:



Quoting United1 (Reply 9):
Quoting LHCVG (Reply 8):
Where all do they still fly? I can only think of NRT, HKG, PVG, PEK offhand, so I don't know where else they go in Asia (of course SYD is there as well)

BKK, SIN, KIX, ICN, SGN, NRT, HKG, PVG & PEK in Asia (KWI and DXB from IAD as well) SYD and MEL in Oz.

Do they also fly to Hanoi or is Ho Chi Minh City the only city in Vietnam they serve?



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineAirlinespotter From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3635 times:



Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 10):
Do they also fly to Hanoi or is Ho Chi Minh City the only city in Vietnam they serve?

Ho Chi Minh City is the only city in Vietnam United Airlines fly to.


User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1764 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 3507 times:



Quoting LHCVG (Thread starter):
ORD and to a lesser extent STL cover the Midwest pretty well (is ORD the #2 hub?);

Yes ORD is their #2 hub. Its also a bigger gateway than DFW for Asia (by far) and to Europe.

Quoting LHCVG (Thread starter):
Like UA, I don't see a large Southern presence for US (my thinking being that CLT is far enough East that it cannot do much for the likes of AR, AL, MS, LA, TX, TN).



Quoting LHCVG (Thread starter):
a nice "world gateway" hub at DFW, so that together with BNA and whatever is left at RDU I would imagine covers the South relatively well

In both the DFW and CLT cases, it depends on where you are flying from and where you are headed to. If you are in the Northeast, CLT would be a better connection than DFW. But if you are in the Midwest or West, DFW works better. CLT is also the US hub for the Caribbean and Central America.

In terms of DL, its not clear to me or to many how they are going to sort out the hub redundancies they have with NW in the picture, which already had some issues with having DTW and MSP in the same region. If they do it right though, they could have the most balanced network, althought that would go against the ATL megahub strategy that seems so engrained in their psyche. I'd balance out the network with with hubs in ATL, DTW, and SLC for domestic connections, while further building LAX and JFK as intl hubs for Asia / Europe respectively). ATL would still remain strong for Latin America and Africa, but scrapping the idea of trying to cover Asia and Europe so much from there. They would stack up really well if you add to that the rest of the places where they could remain as focus cities (BOS, MEM, DCA, LGA, MSP).


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7605 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 3457 times:



Quoting OP3000 (Reply 12):

Yes ORD is their #2 hub. Its also a bigger gateway than DFW for Asia (by far) and to Europe.

ORD is much bigger than DFW to Europe, but not Asia. They both have 2x daily nonstops to the reigon. I give ORD the slight edge right now because they have one flight to NRT and one to PVG as opposed to 2x NRT that DFW has. When they decide to fly ORD-PEK, that would make ORD officially bigger.

Quoting OP3000 (Reply 12):

In both the DFW and CLT cases, it depends on where you are flying from and where you are headed to. If you are in the Northeast, CLT would be a better connection than DFW. But if you are in the Midwest or West, DFW works better. CLT is also the US hub for the Caribbean and Central America.

I also think CLT is a really great Caribbean hub. Second only to MIA in my opinion, though I think DL has more Caribbean flights from ATL. CLT is much more user friendly. DFW also has way more O&D than CLT.

Quoting LHCVG (Thread starter):

AA- They obviously have a commanding presence in Latin American traffic due to MIA (does SJU still do much connecting traffic to Latin America?); a nice "world gateway" hub at DFW, so that together with BNA and whatever is left at RDU I would imagine covers the South relatively well; ORD and to a lesser extent STL cover the Midwest pretty well (is ORD the #2 hub?); plus pretty nice East Coast ops at BOS, LGA, DCA; and a decent, although not commanding, West Coast presence from their focus city(?) at LAX. In terms of routes, the premium product on LAX-JFK,and transatlantic JFK-LHR (is this still dominant given the opening up of LHR?), but not sure about others.

DFW, ORD, and MIA will always be the back bone of AA's route network. DFW is their largest and most versitile hub and the only hub that serves every region of the network. MIA works great because there is a lot of Latin American O&D and its location is close to many Latin American and Caribbean cities meaning the flights cost less to operate. ORD's location and large O&D to Europe and Asia make it a winner for AA. Of course AA will maintain as much precence at JFK and LAX as they can, but DFW, ORD, and MIA are the the most important. If it came down to it, AA could survive with those three hubs.


Quoting LHCVG (Thread starter):
CO- EWR is a nice "world gateway", and I'd imagine they get some good East Coast feed there; CLE gives a modest MW and EWR reliever presence; IAH I would presume has pretty good LA traffic similar to MIA, and again a bunch of int'l connections like EWR (altho, like MIA, is IAH a bit too far south to cover the South well as a connecting hub?). Other than whatever remains of Continental Micronesia, I am really not sure of CO's real strengths or focus routes.

I think CO has the right idea. They arent trying to be everything to everyone. They have niche markets in NYC, IAH, and Latin America. As mentioned Texas is fareing better than anywhere else in the USA right now. CO at IAH and AA at DFW are reflecting this as well.

Quoting LHCVG (Thread starter):

DL- Massive ATL hub covers South/Southeast wonderfully for them, and another "world gateway" setup; MEM (whatever comes of it) makes a nice reliever for South ops; SLC covers interior West and provides good connections to the West Coast; JFK makes a nice transatlantic jumping off point (what's the feed like for them at JFK?); relatively strong up and down the East Coast - BOS, LGA, JFK, DCA, ATL, MCO, FLL; very strong ATL-Florida lift; wit hteh addition of MSP, they now have better coverage of great plains and upper Midwest. I would presume they do pretty well on most of the long-haul stuff (DXB, NRT, PVG, TLV, JNB, etc.) plus ATL-LAX, but not sure other than those what their most lucrative routes are; and even if its not high-yielding they do a lot of East-Coast-Florida flying for sure.

With the merger came some changes. DL knows that ATL no longer has to be the center of the Universe for them. They also had a bite of a reality sandwich with ATL-Asia flights. ATL-Asia was eliminated except one NRT flight daily. DL cut the most of any carrier. That being said, with the merger, that was expected. DL seems to be fareing just fine and they will continue to prosper. We havent seens DL's full plans yet though. They have taken the ax to CVG and its officially the smallest hub. We dont quite know the fate of MEM. Also I believe there will be some redistribution of flights from SLC, MSP, and DTW, though I dont think for a second any of those will be substantially touched.

Quoting LHCVG (Thread starter):

UA- Good Midwest coverage from ORD; good Mid-Atlantic from IAD; interior West/great plains at DEN; solid West Coast from SFO and LAX; PS competes with AA on lucrative premium JFK-LAX/SFO routes. AFAIK, it seems like UA is pretty weak in the South/SE nowadays, and I'm not sure about anything in the East other than IAD. Routes to Oz, NRT, China I would guess to be good moneymakers--what about *A hubs like FRA?

I seriously doubt anyone is makeing money to China. One thing that is in question of UA is how they will handle DEN. They are hurting there right now. There are simply too many flights between UA, F9, and WN. Someone will blink and I think it will be UA. If all else failed, I believe the back bone of UA's network to be IAD, ORD, and SFO. They could survive with just those three if need be. I have no doubt DEN will remain a hub for them, but I think some cuts might be on the way.

Quoting LHCVG (Thread starter):
US- I see US as having a "H-shaped" route network, with good East and West Coast coverage with little more than connecting routes between them -- strong West Coast/SW presence at PHX; sizable ops at LAS I guess would help relieve PHX a bit too; great East Coast/NE coverage from PHL, BOS, LGA, DCA; and SE from CLT. Like UA, I don't see a large Southern presence for US (my thinking being that CLT is far enough East that it cannot do much for the likes of AR, AL, MS, LA, TX, TN).

US is hurting out west and doing ok out east. Though they actually seem to be improving financially, so I dont think theyre down for the count anymore. They seem to be fighting and I think they will be ok. They might have to make some cuts though. They could take a page from CO's book, dont be everything to everyone.



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User currently offlineThegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 3390 times:



Quoting OP3000 (Reply 12):
which already had some issues with having DTW and MSP in the same region.

I haven't read anything from anyone about this granted DTW and MSP have their own little niches going on MSP and the midwest DTW and Asia and Europe and the east coast etc. does anyone think one of these 2 could see a reduction in flights?

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 13):

DFW, ORD, and MIA will always be the back bone of AA's route network. DFW is their largest and most versitile hub and the only hub that serves every region of the network. MIA works great because there is a lot of Latin American O&D and its location is close to many Latin American and Caribbean cities meaning the flights cost less to operate. ORD's location and large O&D to Europe and Asia make it a winner for AA. Of course AA will maintain as much precence at JFK and LAX as they can, but DFW, ORD, and MIA are the the most important. If it came down to it, AA could survive with those three hubs.

Agreed, you'd think MIA is up there when you talk about the most profitable hubs, is it?

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 13):
I seriously doubt anyone is makeing money to China. One thing that is in question of UA is how they will handle DEN. They are hurting there right now. There are simply too many flights between UA, F9, and WN. Someone will blink and I think it will be UA. If all else failed, I believe the back bone of UA's network to be IAD, ORD, and SFO. They could survive with just those three if need be. I have no doubt DEN will remain a hub for them, but I think some cuts might be on the way.

Well put, it has to be a bloodbath going on at DEN right now. There's competition on a huge majority of the numerous flights. UA will scale back some at DEN IMHO.



Our Returning Champion
User currently offlineEwRkId From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 594 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 3360 times:



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 13):
I think CO has the right idea. They arent trying to be everything to everyone. They have niche markets in NYC

Very well said, CO has done a pretty good and choosing routes for its EWR hub and is the largest in the NYC as of now and I think it will stay that way for a while....it will be an even more important hub when CO joins *Alliance as it will give * carriers access to a NY hub they never had before.....


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7605 posts, RR: 24
Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 3276 times:



Quoting ThegreatRDU (Reply 14):

Agreed, you'd think MIA is up there when you talk about the most profitable hubs, is it?

On a per flight basis, MIA is the most profitable hub. As I mentioned, MIA is very close to cities in the Caribbean, Central and South America. That means the flights are less expensive to operate. Couple it with the fact that you have good O&D, you have a winner. In terms of total revenue, Im pretty sure DFW brings in the most. That makes since since its more than double the size of the second largest AA hub.



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User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7545 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 3216 times:



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 13):
DL knows that ATL no longer has to be the center of the Universe for them.

I'm pretty sure they don't know that yet... they are still going to try and focus on ATL like they always have done.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 13):
That being said, with the merger, that was expected

Well Delta told everyone this was a merger about Growth... not reduction, and they money they would save should have been more than enough even in this economy not to cut... but thats what they told the DOJ to get it approved anyway.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7605 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 3139 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 17):
Well Delta told everyone this was a merger about Growth... not reduction, and they money they would save should have been more than enough even in this economy not to cut... but thats what they told the DOJ to get it approved anyway.

Yes, but I think most people knew better. They will blame the economy and swine flu, but its crap. Of course in a normal situation, the economy would bring about the need for flight reductions but not to that degree. Theyve known all along what they were going to do.
Otherwise, what would the point of a merger be? With any merger there is overlap and with overlap means cuts. Thats a simple premise of mergers. No way around it. If it says its too good to be true than it is. Some wished we would forget it, but we didnt, did we?



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User currently offlineVeeseeten From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 3122 times:

Possibly slightly off topic - but just out of curiosity, how many aircraft does each carrier have based at its various hubs? i.e. How many aircraft does AA have at DFW and CO at EWR?

I appreciate that could almost be a thread on its own, so if this is inappropriate, then I apologise!


User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9209 posts, RR: 20
Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 3099 times:



Quoting EwRkId (Reply 15):
Very well said, CO has done a pretty good and choosing routes for its EWR hub and is the largest in the NYC as of now and I think it will stay that way for a while....it will be an even more important hub when CO joins *Alliance as it will give * carriers access to a NY hub they never had before.....

 checkmark  on that!

With that, NYC-LHR will have a Star carrier. We all know how UA did on JFK-LHR...

Quoting Veeseeten (Reply 19):
How many aircraft does AA have at DFW

I want to say somewhere around 600 or 700 flights. Am I in the ballpark here?

As far as CO at EWR, tho, I am not sure, maybe around 300 or 400, but again I could be dead wrong here.



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7605 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 3082 times:



Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 20):
I want to say somewhere around 600 or 700 flights. Am I in the ballpark here?

This winter, AA will have 749 flights per day at DFW. That is up YOY by 19 flights.



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User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10426 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 2942 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 17):
I'm pretty sure they don't know that yet... they are still going to try and focus on ATL like they always have done.



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 17):
Well Delta told everyone this was a merger about Growth... not reduction, and they money they would save should have been more than enough even in this economy not to cut... but thats what they told the DOJ to get it approved anyway.

Give it a rest, Burnsie.  Yeah sure

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 18):
With any merger there is overlap and with overlap means cuts. Thats a simple premise of mergers. No way around it. If it says its too good to be true than it is. Some wished we would forget it, but we didnt, did we?

But, there really wasn't that much overlap with this merger, was there?? There was virtually NO overlap with the DL/WA merger, nor with the NE merger.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2825 posts, RR: 45
Reply 23, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 2871 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 17):
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 13):
DL knows that ATL no longer has to be the center of the Universe for them.

I'm pretty sure they don't know that yet... they are still going to try and focus on ATL like they always have done.

And you know this how? ATL will continue to be the biggest hub due to the simple fact that it was massively bigger than any other hub prior to the merger; that in no way implies that DL will give short shrift to DTW, MSP or anywhere else. I'm confident Mr. Anderson (who knows a thing or two about NW's strengths) wants to maximize revenue regardless of flying allocation.

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 17):
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 13):
That being said, with the merger, that was expected

Well Delta told everyone this was a merger about Growth... not reduction, and they money they would save should have been more than enough even in this economy not to cut... but thats what they told the DOJ to get it approved anyway.

Amazing that prefessionals and analysts in the business have seen continued and intensifying pressures on airline balance sheets since the merger was announced. I say amazing, not beacuse DL has responded to deteriorating conditions, but because apparently you haven't seen that news.

Quoting Mayor (Reply 22):
Give it a rest, Burnsie.

 checkmark 

Quoting Mayor (Reply 22):
But, there really wasn't that much overlap with this merger, was there?? There was virtually NO overlap with the DL/WA merger, nor with the NE merger.

 checkmark  Excellent point, Mayor. The cuts occurring now are in the greatest part due to conditions that have deteriorated greatly since the announcement of the merger. I have seen no evidence that the former NW network will see a disproportionate amount of cutting, despite what other posters may contend. When the aircraft start to be parked in the fall we will know more.


User currently onlineMexicana757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3042 posts, RR: 28
Reply 24, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 2831 times:



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 13):
ORD is much bigger than DFW to Europe, but not Asia. They both have 2x daily nonstops to the reigon. I give ORD the slight edge right now because they have one flight to NRT and one to PVG as opposed to 2x NRT that DFW has. When they decide to fly ORD-PEK, that would make ORD officially bigger.

Don't forget that AA also flies to DEL out of ORD. AA has three routes to Asia from ORD; DEL, NRT and PVG. And PEK will be the fourth starting next year.


25 OP3000 : NW grew domestically in the past 40 largely as a regional powerhouse for the Northern Midwest, and so it made a lot of sense to have two big hubs (DT
26 LAXdude1023 : There was certainly some. Why do you think CVG is being sliced and diced in favor of DTW. Of course the overlap wasnt major, but its there. DL has do
27 Mayor : I believe what DL said was "there would be no cuts or frontline jobs lost because of this merger", not because of the economy. I'm sure they'd love to
28 Captaink : SJU never really served as a Latin America connection point. It was Caribbean hub, with the great majority of its US bound flights feeding off of, co
29 Brilondon : DFW is by far the best situated for a hub as it is one of the only airports in AA's system that could be expanded significantly. ORD and JFK/LGA are
30 OP3000 : All flights from SJU to the Caribbean are run on MQ, except for single daily flights to SDQ and CCS.
31 Atomsareenough : Really? Their route map still shows ICN, PVG, BOM, DXB, and TLV. Are all of those gone in the fall or something?
32 7324ever : LAS/PHX kinda serves as a redundant double negative it is one of the most popular western state routes anything between LA area-LAS-PHX-SLC is a bitc
33 LAXdude1023 : ATL-ICN/PVG/BOM are kaput starting in August and September depending on the route.
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