FLYAAY From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 3 posts, RR: 0 Posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 16637 times:
Does anybody have any other information about this? I was told they bought 6 757's from Thomson in the U.K. and that the airplanes are sitting at I believe Goodyear in Arizona. The price tag on each 75 was estimated at around $8 million. Seeing how Allegiant is a public company the purchases would have to made public as well, but if the CEO bought them and put them in his name and not the company then he could keep it a "secret" or atleast try. Another rumore in this ongoing "mystery, if you will" is that they are planning on keeping the 75's seprate from Allegiant in other words flying them under another name. Lots of twist and turns in this story but if you have something to add please do so im all ears.
Srbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 16438 times:
There have been reports of them doing flights to Hawaii. Perhaps they're going to try to snag the Boyd Gaming/Vacations Hawaii charter contract away from Omni Air International. Or maybe they're going to start a similar type program with Harrah's Entertainment. Allegiant already has a charter deal with Harrah's, so this definitely could not be out of the realm of possibilities as well.
Quoting FLYAAY (Thread starter): Seeing how Allegiant is a public company the purchases would have to made public as well, but if the CEO bought them and put them in his name and not the company then he could keep it a "secret" or atleast try.
They could always have procured them via a subsidiary (potentially a shell) company.
As for operating them separately from G4, that's always a possibility. They could establish that operation as a separate airline that is a subsidiary of the parent company as a way to keep labor costs down.
Drerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5174 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 15734 times:
Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 5): The article talks a little about the former TZ 753 fleet and the possiblity of getting them. That be a tad hard as they are all (last 4 to be delivered late this year/next year) part of CO's fleet.
Good luck, though to this possibilty!
That article is super old - If this rumor proves true I'm sure the birds will be 752s.
Pilotboi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2366 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 15376 times:
Quoting BmiBaby737 (Reply 9): NWA sold 10 757's to Citicorp this year, they're all stored... could be these?
Two of them have been ferried to SFB using their registration as a call sign. The two aircraft are former NW ship 5509 (N509US) and former NW ship 5511 (N511US). Perhaps more will be moving over in the coming weeks/months. Who knows. We will find out in due time.
Wedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5902 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 14204 times:
If G4 indeed purchased a handful of 757-200's, is it possible that they might use them on longer LAS and LAX flights that cannot be supported by Maddogs? Or perhaps they could link places like SFB or PIE with LAS or LAX. I wouldn't think that G4 would use 757's solely for Hawaii service.
Gilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3014 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 14083 times:
Think you might want to ask the moderators to modify the title of this thread to attract some UK members, who are familiar with Thomson Airways...
According to Thomson Airways wikipedia page they had 25x 752's in the fleet as of July 2009, if these figures are correct then it is likely some maybe sitting in the desert. First Choice and Thomson Airways completed their merger in May 09 and both airlines had a fleet of about 15-20 aircraft each, so it appear some have been removed... Also they are slowly receiving 738's, which are gradually replacing all the single aisle aircraft in the fleet.
It will be interesting to see how much life is left in the 752's from First Choice and Thomson, these aircraft have had a busy life, and will have very high cycle rates... Most of them are approaching 17-20 yrs old and in-common with other UK charter airlines, they are some of the most utilised aircraft in the world, flying 18+ hrs a day.
EXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 13152 times:
Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 17): If G4 indeed purchased a handful of 757-200's, is it possible that they might use them on longer LAS and LAX flights that cannot be supported by Maddogs?
I think youre looking at Hawaii. Since TZ and AQ's demise fares are high and capacity has fallen quite a bit. Also keep in mind a LAS-HNL flight would be unique for G4 as both ends would attract lots of sales as opposed to most G4 LAS flights which are less than 10% LAS originating
G4LASRamper From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 170 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 11095 times:
Before I left the company in May, they were definitely talking about adding 757s to the fleet. At that time, the thinking was on basing them in BLI, and running from there to Hawaii. I never heard exactly where in Hawaii, nor did I hear any mention of basing these tails at any other G4 maintenance base. And of course there were many technical issues yet to work out. A short sample of the issues:
BLI's runway length can barely handle the weights needed to operate 757s ETOPS to Hawaii. Without changes, there would be many days when such operations would be weight-restricted. Also, the ramps would have to be strengthened and expanded. Ramp space is kind of tight as it is, with two MD-80s on the ground every night.
Although there are quite a few people at G4 that have 757 and RR experience, the logistics of adding a new aircraft and engine type to the existing flight and maintenance operations are formidable, especially at G4's present staffing levels.
Adding ETOPS capability to the existing operation is an even more formidable challenge. In materials purchasing alone, they would need to do things like set up a separate quarantined ETOPS parts operation. The company would also need to demonstrate ETOPS operations under direct FAA observation for two years before having ETOPS capability added to their operating certificate.
Also, G4 is actively looking at replacements for the MD-80. There are lots of A-320 and B-737-800 models scattered around the headquarters building.
Managing both a fleet replacement and starting up an ETOPS operation with a new aircraft type would be quite the challenge. Plus, the MD-80 fleet is still growing - they are at 45 tails now and there's still a few more coming later this year.
It could be that with fuel prices relatively low for now, the priority for fleet replacement has taken a back seat to the 757 ETOPS project.
I have no doubt that all of this will eventually happen. G4 has already put a lot of time and effort into both projects, and they definitely want to continue to grow the company.
But I would be really surprised to see 757 ETOPS operations at G4 any time soon. But I also wouldn't be surprised if they managed to surprise me!
"A pig that doesn't fly is just a pig." - Porco Rosso
HAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2560 posts, RR: 53
Reply 24, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 10990 times:
Quoting G4LASRamper (Reply 23): But I would be really surprised to see 757 ETOPS operations at G4 any time soon.
So would I. After spending most of the last decade flying ETOPS to Hawaii, I know there is a lot of paperwork, planning, and $$$ involved in getting certified as an ETOPS airline, expecially when you have zero experience flying across the ocean. They'd have to have ETOPS trained mechanics at each of the places where the planes go, ETOPS trained crews, ETOPS certified aircraft, extra equipment aboard, and go through a long drawn-out certification process with the FAA once they acquire the aircraft.
Given how 'low cost' Allegiant is, it kind of surprises me that they'd go for Hawaii flights, as the ETOPS requirement put an extra layer of cost on everything they would do. Of course the could do it, but it wouldn't be anything like the $29 fares from Podunk to Cabbage City (via LAS) they're so fond of doing.
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
: However, the LAX move turned my head. G4 has really taken strong moves to increase its vacation packages it offers. Add Hawaii to that mix, and it re
: Allegiant has been actively looking for ETOPS rated B757's for awhile. I was told by a very good source they are looking for at least 3 frames for fli
: I think that if you want to connect, you have to set it up yourself. Obviously that will have to change if they start flights to Hawaii.
: Only if they allow connections to Hawaii. But I don't think that will happen, I believe they will still focus on non-stop flights from a city to the
: I think I mentioned that in an earlier thread when someone noted how easily they could feed a Hawaii flight. I reckon that if they allow connections,
: That is an opportunity that others (including HA) have already done much to fill. HA added a third LAS flight 4x/week, and are talking about a fourth
: But again, they have very few markets that operate daily so I still doubt there would be connections. A missed connection could mean 2 or 3 days befo
: That is a hurdle, but it would be quite attractive if they could get past it. Plus, adding connections to Hawaii would increase demand somewhat so so
: FAT, PSP, and MRY could operate a 757 as their runways are long enough (just barely in the case of MRY). But BLI & SBA are just too short to regularl
: You are right there, I forgot that detail. oops. But if we are talking about 6 planes, where will they all go? Two daily to LAX and two daily to LAS
: Maybe ... And while the main discussion here seems to be about use of Hawaii flights for any B757's, theres nothing stopping them being used for char
: IF, and I mean IF, they really are finally getting these 757 a few things: ** We have to figure at least one is a spare. ** They also might consider
: For those talking Hawaii, this spreadsheet might prove to be interesting. It shows the MSAs that send the largest number of tourists to Hawaii. http:/
: Many airports served by G4 are already preparing: SBN is building a new concourse with FIS to prepare for G4 international flights, possibly to CUN,
: Would they actually keep a spare? Couldn't they just cancel/postpone whatever flights they needed to, if there were a problem?
: Allegiant already maintains spares among its fleet. And what if it is a mechanical problem that might take 2 or 3 days to fix? Now you are cancelling
: That's why I brought up the LAS-Hawaii charters. Boyd Gaming/Vacations Hawaii does a very strong job of marketing charter service and vacation packag
: Don't count WN out on Hawaii. They have the all the gateways in place and all the feeds to make Hawaii a go and they saw the many full daily flights
: I've figured that a midwestern hub would work for an ULCC carrier, but I agree that I doubt Allegiant would go this route. As soon as you start marke
: Here is what I have heard and seen. Allegiant indeed has express interest in the B757, apparently having gone far enough as an LOI to acquire some fra
: I completely forgot they were based out of Las Vegas. That definitely thickens the plot. Now that's one way to do things and set the pay scale at wha
: Great stuff, 'Flyer; thanks a bunch for providing that link! Anyone buy into the idea of, instead of connections, offering thru, direct (multi-stop)
: What if instead of Hawaii, they add flights from some east coast cities to LAS, or west coast to SFB. They could also do flights to Mexico or the Cari
: At least some of the ex-First Choice (originally Air 2000) 757s must be very high-time/high-cycle machines by now. rj
: Thanks that is an interesting link. ANC had more visitors to Hawaii thru May 09 than LAS!? I suppose that this would make the issue of misconnects on
: OAI and World were doing LAS charters for different travel companies. They must have since they flew the Kona Air Shuttle charter, OAK-KOA, twice a w
: I'm not sure where you got that. The first column is January 2009, so totals thru May 09 are: Las Vegas - 20,762 Anchorage - 18,167 For the full year
: Yeah, I used the wrong thing in the spreadsheet program. That didn't seem right to me either, but it was what my (flawed) math said. So if G4 purchas
: The whole airline has to become ETOPS certified, which includes the flight planning, maintenance, spares, and training costs, in addition to all the
54 A/c dxer
: The Primaris certificate is useless they filed chapter 7 on March 30th. If Allegiant wants to do 180 ETOPS without doing the proving runs they have tw