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YX Adding 2nd MKE-LAX Flight  
User currently offlineMke717spotter From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2458 posts, RR: 5
Posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4121 times:

Midwest adds another nonstop flight to L.A.
By Doris Hajewski of the Journal Sentinel

July 15, 2009 1:12 p.m. | Midwest Airlines will launch a second nonstop flight between Milwaukee and Los Angeles beginning Oct. 1. The new service, which will operate daily except Saturday, includes a 7:35 p.m. departure from Milwaukee and an 11:30 p.m. departure from Los Angeles.

An Embraer 190 aircraft with 20 Signature seats with extra legroom and 79 Saver seats will be used for the flight, which will offer meals for purchase and baked-onboard chocolate chip cookies.

Midwest is offering $79 one-way tickets to mark the launch. Tickets must be purchased at least 21 days in advance and by midnight Aug. 3 for travel Oct. 1 through Nov. 18.

http://www.jsonline.com/newswatch/50866687.html

I remember reading that five 717s will be leaving in September, so does anyone know how many E190s they are supposed to have by the start date of this extra flight?


Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDLHFLYER From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 184 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3981 times:

Who announces a second flight before the first one has even begun? I mean, have bookings been strong or what? But more importantly, how can they feel confident in a second flight, when they don't know how yields will be? They must feel threatened by Airtran or something.


Duluth is a nice city, we even get 3 months without snow per year
User currently offlineMUWarriors From United States of America, joined May 2005, 291 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3937 times:



Quoting DLHFLYER (Reply 1):
Who announces a second flight before the first one has even begun? I mean, have bookings been strong or what? But more importantly, how can they feel confident in a second flight, when they don't know how yields will be? They must feel threatened by Airtran or something.

It's not as though this is the first time they flew this, so they have a good feel for what the market will be. Basically they are reinstating a flight that was discontinued around a year ago.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23148 posts, RR: 20
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3920 times:



Quoting MUWarriors (Reply 2):
It's not as though this is the first time they flew this, so they have a good feel for what the market will be.

 checkmark  FWIW, didn't DL drop MKE-LAX between the announcement of the first and second flights?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineKnope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2947 posts, RR: 30
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3893 times:



Quoting MUWarriors (Reply 2):
It's not as though this is the first time they flew this, so they have a good feel for what the market will be. Basically they are reinstating a flight that was discontinued around a year ago.

Midwest flew MKE-LAX nonstop for 18 1/2 years.

After an absence of 10 months and 3 weeks, MKE-LAX returns 8/1. They did not always fly MKE-LAX with two flights per day, but now that they have a smaller, much more effecient aircraft to fly the route, restoring the red eye makes sense.


User currently offlineMke717spotter From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2458 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3762 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 3):
didn't DL drop MKE-LAX between the announcement of the first and second flights?

Your right, and the NW/DL flight was a redeye which leads you to believe there's probably a connection here.



Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
User currently offlineKnope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2947 posts, RR: 30
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3638 times:



Quoting Mke717spotter (Thread starter):
I remember reading that five 717s will be leaving in September, so does anyone know how many E190s they are supposed to have by the start date of this extra flight?

I don't think there's any credibility to the notion that five 717's are leaving in September. The 717's are likely going eventually, but the specific timetable is not public. To think five

However, with only the two previouly-announced E190s and a few minor schedule tweaks, they can add the two MKE-LAX nonstops and still remove two 717's from the fleet by October 1.

That does not necessarily mean that's what is going to happen, but they could pull two 717's by October. When MKE-MCO returns later this fall, however, they'll need more lift from someplace to fly that.


User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1545 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3460 times:



Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 6):
When MKE-MCO returns later this fall, however, they'll need more lift from someplace to fly that.

Are you sure this is even seasonal anymore? It looks like its running except Tues/Wed for the Fall.

Quoting Mke717spotter (Thread starter):
An Embraer 190 aircraft with 20 Signature seats with extra legroom and 79 Saver seats will be used for the flight, which will offer meals for purchase and baked-onboard chocolate chip cookies.

What is the configuration really going to be? Right now the early LAX shows 10 signature seats while the new LAX flight shows 15. But now this release says 20.

Also how does the 190 compare to the 73G on CASM? I think it will be interesting to watch MKE over the next few years and see if YX adds more west coast stuff back. FL is doing pretty well right now with the monopoly on SFO, SEA, and SAN.



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2887 posts, RR: 31
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3421 times:

Here is what the Midwest Airlines website says about the new (daily) MKE-LAX flights:

Nonstop service from Milwaukee to Los Angeles will begin Aug. 1
Daily nonstop service between Milwaukee and Los Angeles will begin Aug. 1, with service offered aboard an Embraer 190 configured with 10 extra-wide leather Signature seats and 84 leather Saver seats. The Midwest Class seating option combines the airline’s award-winning service and onboard amenities with two choices of seating in the same coach cabin. Buy-onboard Best Care Cuisine meals and baked-onboard chocolate chip cookies will also be available.

Fares from Milwaukee to Los Angeles start at $238 roundtrip.

Click here to book your flight.


Since I now live in LA and my parents still live in Lake Forest (northern suburb of Chicago) I fly the LA-Chicago route quite frequently. Usually I fly out of ORD, which is about 30 minutes from me. I used to use B6's LGB-ORD service, which was initially quite cheap and twice daily. But now that the airline is quite well known and down to a single daily flight, it isn't such a cheap option anymore. I also have an incredibly hard time finding cheap LAX-MDW fares on WN; plus, Midway is at least an hour from me.

This summer, I discovered the joy of saving time, money, and hassle by flying out of MKE. With I-294 under construction and last minute one way flights from ORD-LAX (with a connection in PHX) hovering around $350, I found myself on the MKE-LAX nonstop for just $99. MKE is less than an hour from my house and the longer drive is mitigated by fewer lines, hassles, and a much nicer, friendlier airport. I'm already booked on the August 5th LAX-MKE run in a Signature Saver seat ($129 + $70 upgrade to Signature Saver Seat, again hundreds cheaper than ORD). There is a 1-2 layout, with 4 rows of single seats and 3 rows of double seats. I'll try to do a TR if I can to show you guys the new E-190 aircraft, a brand new type for me!



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineMKENut From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 699 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3270 times:



Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 8):
With I-294 under construction

Just a word of warning for you... I-94 between Milwaukee and the Illinois State Line will be under contruction for at least 5 years. Driving to MKE might be a hassle for now but probably less of a hassle than I-294. I am glad to hear MKE works out for you otherwise.  Smile


User currently offlineYx302 From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3262 times:

The first 2 e190s for YX will only have 10 signature seats. After that the next ones will be configured with 20 signature seats. The first two are used and coming with there previous owners config. Once YX has a spare 190 the first two will rotate in to be configed to the 20/79 layout. Right now iam hearing theres a total of 12 E190s headed for YX or should i say Republic.

User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7322 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 3205 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 3):
FWIW, didn't DL drop MKE-LAX between the announcement of the first and second flights?



Quoting Mke717spotter (Reply 5):
Your right, and the NW/DL flight was a redeye which leads you to believe there's probably a connection here.

It is pretty suspicious, but as I said on another thread, when you have a code share the other airline sees your schedule in advance and can react to it before it is even published. "Schedule coordination" is not approved by DOT/DOJ, but while you are coordinating code share flight numbers, some other things probably get coordinated too.  Wink

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 6):

I don't think there's any credibility to the notion that five 717's are leaving in September.

I heard 1Q by a good source, but things are changing quickly with the REP deal.


User currently offlineTZTriStar500 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1453 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 3122 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 11):

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 6):

I don't think there's any credibility to the notion that five 717's are leaving in September.

I heard 1Q by a good source, but things are changing quickly with the REP deal.

The 1Q is when BCC will need them for redelivery to Mexicana Click per their delivery schedule. If any of the 9 leave earlier, then they will just sit in VCV like the rest. By the way, all 9 remaining will be gone by the end of 2010 if not sooner.



35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
User currently offlineKnope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2947 posts, RR: 30
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 3091 times:



Quoting FL787 (Reply 7):
Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 6):
When MKE-MCO returns later this fall, however, they'll need more lift from someplace to fly that.

Are you sure this is even seasonal anymore? It looks like its running except Tues/Wed for the Fall.

You're right...they must have slipped that back into the schedule when I wasn't looking. With MKE-MCO still operating, then they could only remove one 717 without needing additional replacement lift, not two.

Based on furlough warnings to labor groups, they are preparing for additional 717's to go as early as later in September. Before that happens, it's almost certain that we'll see news on replacement E190's or other aircraft coming online to backfill that capacity.

Quoting Enilria (Reply 11):
Quoting Mke717spotter (Reply 5):
Your right, and the NW/DL flight was a redeye which leads you to believe there's probably a connection here.

It is pretty suspicious, but as I said on another thread, when you have a code share the other airline sees your schedule in advance and can react to it before it is even published. "Schedule coordination" is not approved by DOT/DOJ, but while you are coordinating code share flight numbers, some other things probably get coordinated too.

I’m sure that there are times when code-share partners may have an early advantage in knowing what their code-sharing competitor is doing. But it’s a fine line, and I’m not so sure that what Delta and Midwest are doing doesn’t make sense without any sort of collusion. Let's look at the specific events:

**Last Summer**
Midwest was the largest carrier on MKE-LAX, and when they announced they were ending that flying because the no longer had aircraft capable of doing it, another airline stepped in to replace that capacity. That airline was NW, the #2 carrier in Milwaukee. (AirTran, for what it’s worth, did *not* step in to replace Midwest on MKE-LAX, only restoring MKE-LAX three months ago.)

NW’s competitive response makes sense, with or without the YX code share.


**This Past Winter**
NW pulled MKE-LAX for six weeks during the dead of winter. Then the restored it, but it flew as a red-eye.

NW’s actions show they were in it for themselves, not necessarily to pseudo-replace Midwest’s lost daytime MKE-LAX nonstop. If they were, it would have stayed a daytime flight and stayed daily even through winter.

**This Summer**
Midwest again acquired aircraft able to fly MKE-LAX, and are starting this August 1.

**Later This Summer**
NW (DL) announced they were pulling MKE-LAX after Labor Day. September is slow month, and given what they did in January, perhaps NW would have pulled it anyway after the summer travel peak ended -- with or without YX coming back. NW knows that with both FL and YX having hubs in Milwaukee to support their MKE-LAX nonstops, their own point-to-point MKE-LAX would struggle once the summer peak is over.

**Yesterday**
Midwest announced a second MKE-LAX nonstop, a red-eye which runs about the same time the pulled NW nonstop ran. That may well have been in the cards all along, however, because Midwest has historically had a MKE-LAX red-eye much of the time, and it is a good utilization of aircraft. It also dovetails the AirTran redeye, something Midwest is likely doing for competitive reasons.

Does this mean that things would have played out precisely the same had it been United instead of Northwest that came into MKE-LAX after Midwest pulled out? Not necessarily. But NW/DL’s actions show that there were reasons behind their actions other than a collusion by which NW was a placeholder for YX.


User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7322 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 3003 times:



Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 13):
But it’s a fine line, and I’m not so sure that what Delta and Midwest are doing doesn’t make sense without any sort of collusion.

Well the definition of collusion is:
LEGALLY: a secret understanding between two or more persons to gain something illegally, to defraud another of his or her rights, or to appear as adversaries though in agreement

I'm sure DL would argue that having information (that YX is going to drop LAX-MKE and then add it again) and using it is not collusion because it is not an agreement, merely an advance notification. There is nothing specifically illegal about "notifying" one party prior to others, although it is just a hair away from illegality. It is murky enough so that it would never be prosecuted without incriminating emails.

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 13):
NW’s actions show they were in it for themselves

They were in it to hurt FL I think. There is no reason for NW to be flying LAX-MKE after they basically dropped all their other pt2pt flying and LAX isn't even a NW focus city...and barely one for DL. They pretty clearly flew it this Summer because FL was flying it and YX had dropped it. But that is all just my opinion.


User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1545 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 2918 times:



Quoting Yx302 (Reply 10):
Right now iam hearing theres a total of 12 E190s headed for YX or should i say Republic.

Are they going to be new or are they really a bunch of E190s just sitting around?

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 13):
It also dovetails the AirTran redeye, something Midwest is likely doing for competitive reasons.

Just FYI, both of Airtran's LAX-MKE are early morning departures. No redeye.



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlineKnope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2947 posts, RR: 30
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 2812 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 14):
They were in it to hurt FL I think. There is no reason for NW to be flying LAX-MKE after they basically dropped all their other pt2pt flying and LAX isn't even a NW focus city...and barely one for DL. They pretty clearly flew it this Summer because FL was flying it and YX had dropped it. But that is all just my opinion.

Clearly there was a market for them to add MKE-LAX while Midwest was not flying it because they filled the plane well. Remember that between early September 2008 and mid April 2009, they were the *only* nonstop carrier on MKE-LAX. AirTran only returned about 3 months ago.

Quoting FL787 (Reply 15):
Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 13):
It also dovetails the AirTran redeye, something Midwest is likely doing for competitive reasons.

Just FYI, both of Airtran's LAX-MKE are early morning departures. No redeye.

Yup...I'm guilty of thinking of it from the MKE side. Both FL and YX will have an evening MKE-LAX, but while YX returns as a red-eye, the FL plane doesn't return until early morning.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23148 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 2480 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 14):
I'm sure DL would argue that having information (that YX is going to drop LAX-MKE and then add it again) and using it is not collusion because it is not an agreement, merely an advance notification. There is nothing specifically illegal about "notifying" one party prior to others, although it is just a hair away from illegality. It is murky enough so that it would never be prosecuted without incriminating emails.

Is there any evidence of advance notice, though?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25738 posts, RR: 50
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 2391 times:

Regarding 717s leaving, make of it what you will but the YX pilot MEC was notified of 41 additional furloughs by October.

Either we will see a further pull down of flying post Labor Day, or planes are truly leaving property creating the excess staffing.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1545 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 2369 times:

I just noticed looking on Republic's website under fleet plan that they are planning on flying 22 70-86 jets for YX in Q4 of this year. They are getting two E190s (even though those don't fit the seat category) but where are these other planes coming from if it's true?

http://www.flychautauqua.com/investorrelations.html

Click on financial reports on the left side.



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
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