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Copa Orders 13 B737-800 Plus 8 Options  
User currently offlineMptpa From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 546 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6872 times:

COPA orders up to 21 B737-800. Here is the link
Click here for the link

40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline757GB From Uruguay, joined Feb 2009, 678 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6858 times:

Thanks for the good news! Congrats to Copa, Boeing & the awesome 737.


God is The Alpha and The Omega. We come from God. We go towards God. What an Amazing Journey...
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11459 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6859 times:
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Well done CM with a very good strategy.
I hope to see more CM birds flying over Brazil in the near future.

Any news about Press releases from CM ?



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3439 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6820 times:

Congrats to CM and Boeing. I assume this is for expansion? What are CM's plans over the next 5 or so years..more Latin American expansion or a focus in the Caribbean, or more US routes?

AA1818



“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8513 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6825 times:
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When are they going to fly to Madrid and other European points from their hub of the "Americas." Copa with 787 is the order I am waiting for.

User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1786 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6813 times:

Good news. This gives them the ability to keep growing the network, particularly tp the Caribbean, Brazil and more destinations in the USA and Canada. Speaking of which, I think YYZ would be a hit as early as next year with them being AC / *A partners.

User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8632 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6814 times:
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Quoting AA1818 (Reply 3):
What are CM's plans over the next 5 or so years..

hopefully these new orders will be delivered with nice pretty Star Alliance logos by the door  optimist 



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineJuanchito From Guatemala, joined Nov 2000, 1210 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6697 times:

Good for CM, maybe they will start retiring some old 73G and some for expansion.

Juanchito



Chapin de corazon.
User currently offlineCaptaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 5109 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6626 times:



Quoting Juanchito (Reply 7):
retiring some old 73G and some for expansion.

Now their is an oxymoron, and 'old" 737 "next generation" JAJA.

But yeah I suppose some of those birds have a couple years on them. Nevertheless I imagine they have a lot of life left still. When did CM begin its 737NG operations?

I was reading the latest issue of AvionRevue (pesimo, full of incorrect information) and they showed a photo of CMs 732s. When were they replaced with the NGs?



There is something special about planes....
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4396 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6396 times:

They could replace some 73Gs on heavy routes and a couple could go to BOG for P5 which has a bunch of international routes approved but not being flown, mainly to the US Good news for CM.

User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2744 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 6310 times:

Will these new a/c get the new Sky interior?


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User currently offlineJuanchito From Guatemala, joined Nov 2000, 1210 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 6174 times:



Quoting Captaink (Reply 8):

CM first receive 4 737NG on the year 2000, this deliveries will be for 2012 to 2015 so some will have 12 to 15 years. Many airlines have replace so young fleet specially narrowbodies that are more utilize than widebodies. Taca have done this, Ryanair have donde this. Maybe Copa is considering.

Juanchito



Chapin de corazon.
User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3447 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 6167 times:

The idea of transferring them to P5 is an interesting one. The oldest may be 12 years old when the first of this batch of 738s arrive, but for a 73G, it still has a lot of life left in it.

User currently offlineCaptaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 5109 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 6153 times:



Quoting Juanchito (Reply 11):
Many airlines have replace so young fleet specially narrowbodies that are more utilize than widebodies. Taca have done this, Ryanair have donde this. Maybe Copa is considering.

Ah no doubt about that... I just mentioned it in a lighthearted manner, that we usually think of 73Gs as new without thinking of when the first ones started flying, same with the A320, who may have some examples that started flying in the late 80s..



There is something special about planes....
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4619 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5992 times:



Quoting AA1818 (Reply 3):
I assume this is for expansion?

I believe this way !
As far as I was able to read some articles coming from insiders of the airline, CM is not planning the opening of new routes for the rest of the year.




.

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 4):
When are they going to fly to Madrid and other European points from their hub of the "Americas."

Notice that the wide-bodies have not been included in that order. In my view, CM is rather relying in their interline agreements to mobilize passengers to Europe as KL PTY-AMS.
Let's see if that treaty will continue in the future, taking into account that CM will leave Sky Team on October 24th.




.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 9):
They could replace some 73Gs on heavy routes and a couple could go to BOG for P5 which has a bunch of international routes approved but not being flown

As a matter of fact, the short-haul named CM PTY-CCS 3x daily is one of the routes which is getting better yields for them as it had supported up to 2x daily flights with 738s in the past.

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineWestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2135 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5928 times:

Boeing press release says: "The order represents a mixture of option conversions and new orders and brings to 27 the number of Boeing Next-Generation 737s the airline has on order."

COPA currently have 12 undelivered 737s and this was a firm order for 13 which makes 25.
So, assuming Boeing did not mess up the math, there are two UFO 737s that are for COPA.
Possible candidates are EITHER the 2 -700s on 13-Nov-2008 OR the 2 -800s on 11-Apr-2007.



The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
User currently offlineN1786b From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 560 posts, RR: 17
Reply 16, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5892 times:



Quoting LY777 (Reply 10):
Will these new a/c get the new Sky interior?

Yes.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Boeing...es-prnews-3366584708.html?x=0&.v=1


User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4409 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5853 times:

Good news.

Congrats to COPA and Boeing!


User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8632 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5822 times:
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Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 9):
They could replace some 73Gs on heavy routes and a couple could go to BOG for P5 which has a bunch of international routes approved but not being flown, mainly to the US Good news for CM.

I wondered about P5 as well , as you say it could be an opportunity for expansion there as well as at CM . The only problem I could foresee if whether some of Colombias current bilateral agreements contain restrictions on the 'Colombian-ness' of a carrier ? This could be an impediment to growth .

In any case , it is nice to see in the current economic situation a carrier ( CM ) that is continuing to do well and is able to plan for the future .



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1786 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5782 times:

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 18):
I wondered about P5 as well , as you say it could be an opportunity for expansion there as well as at CM . The only problem I could foresee if whether some of Colombias current bilateral agreements contain restrictions on the 'Colombian-ness' of a carrier ? This could be an impediment to growth .

Colombia does not have any foreign ownership restrictions. That said, the govt. does have the right to allocate the Colombian quota of each bilateral amongst the domestic carriers. I've heard that LA had explored going into Colombia as a domestic carrier, but that they were rebuffed in terms of getting key routes allocated to them (mainly those involving MIA like MIA-MDE, MIA-CLO, MIA-BAQ), even though AV was not using up all of the frequencies allowed. So in that respect there seems to be some favoritism going on, although some on here have previously denied that being the case.

[Edited 2009-07-16 23:54:20]

User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8632 posts, RR: 13
Reply 20, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5761 times:
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Quoting OP3000 (Reply 19):


Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 18):
I wondered about P5 as well , as you say it could be an opportunity for expansion there as well as at CM . The only problem I could foresee if whether some of Colombias current bilateral agreements contain restrictions on the 'Colombian-ness' of a carrier ? This could be an impediment to growth .

Colombia does not have any foreign ownership restrictions

thanks for the info OP3000  thumbsup  but there are two sides to a bilateral , often states insert clauses saying that a carrier using rights allocated to country XYZ must be 'substantially' owned in country XYZ . In such a case it would not matter whether Colombia considers P5 to be Colombian , the other country could still conceivably say that they are not eligible for traffic rights . As an example a few years ago Virgin Nigeria applied for rights to fly to the US from Nigeria , and , if I am not mistaken , the US refused them on the grounds that they regarded VK to be a British airline rather than a Nigerian airline. So , in theory , country XYZ could say that P5 is a Panamanian airline rather than a Colombian one and therefore they cannot fly to our country using rights that are meant for Colombian airlines .



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1786 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5725 times:



Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 20):
often states insert clauses saying that a carrier using rights allocated to country XYZ must be 'substantially' owned in country XYZ .

You're right - I forgot about that angle of it. Going back to the LA example I mentioned, they've gotten some Colombia-USA cargo-only routes assigned through the bilateral, and to do so they set up their subsidiary with a Colombian partner owning only 10% of the company. That apparently was enough to satisfy the US FAA. IIRC CM has more than 90% of P5 so they may have to re-shuffle shares if that's the cut-off which satisfies the US feds, which doesn't seem like a big obstacle. But I can see some other countries (Brazil for example) being tougher than that.


User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5160 times:

Even if it looks like it's unlikely to happen, but I would think that CM could change the B737-800 for another B737 type if they wanted to.
For new Brazilian destinations: CM B737-600 could make it POA-PTY or CWB-PTY non-stop; To increase the seats between PTY and CCS: B737-900ER would come handy; And for those who want to see CM in MAD: B737-700ER could do that route.
Plus I believe CM Cargo do need a B737-700F, good use for any "old" B737-700 which CM wants to retire.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4396 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4779 times:

Im guessing that Copa is looking to increase the traffic volume at PTY with this order. Replacing 73Gs with 738s will bring them more flexibility and capacity thus lowering their CASM. Routes I can see being flown with those are MIA, CCS, MEX, HAV, KIN, BOG, LIM, SJU and MCO. I can see CM opening places like YYZ and ORD with the 73Gs taken from those flights.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 14):
As a matter of fact, the short-haul named CM PTY-CCS 3x daily is one of the routes which is getting better yields for them as it had supported up to 2x daily flights with 738s in the past.

I'm talking about sending them to P5 so that the airline can start its US routes which cannot be operated with the E190...

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 18):
The only problem I could foresee if whether some of Colombias current bilateral agreements contain restrictions on the 'Colombian-ness' of a carrier ?

Well, Avianca has had no problem with that with any country, so i don't see it being an obstacle.

Quoting OP3000 (Reply 19):
I've heard that LA had explored going into Colombia as a domestic carrier, but that they were rebuffed in terms of getting key routes allocated to them (mainly those involving MIA like MIA-MDE, MIA-CLO, MIA-BAQ), even though AV was not using up all of the frequencies allowed. So in that respect there seems to be some favoritism going on, although some on here have previously denied that being the case.

Again, rumours that hide the real situation. There are currently NO US freqs. available on the non-openskies cities. Every airline flying those routes is using most of the frequencies allowed, with only maybe 1-2 weekly flights left unused. Nothing LA would be interested abou


User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4619 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (5 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4520 times:

According to airfleets.net, the entire 737 fleet of CM is aged as follows:


Model.......First flight.........Amount
.73G.............1999.................4
.73G..............2000................4
.73G..............2001................3
.73G..............2003................2
.738...............2003................2
.73G..............2004................3
.738...............2004................1
.73G..............2005................1
.738...............2005................1
.73G..............2006................2
.738...............2007................2
.738...............2008................1
.738...............2009................1


Most of their 73Gs are becoming pretty old and they need a renewal into their entire fleet. It also should be noted that their regional competitors sometimes are advertising as "the most modern fleet in Latin America."
Another remarkable fact consists in the chosen of more 738s over the 73Gs in the past years.

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
25 EcuadorianMD11 : Everybody is waiting for the 787.........don´t hold your breath just yet. I like the regional airlines growing bigger & bigger: Copa, but TACA as we
26 AirNovaBAe146 : Are you out of your mind? The only way a COPA B737-700ER could make it to MAD is either.... 1. All fuel and no pax, for those who want to go non-stop
27 SJOtoLIR : That route of course needs the participation of wide-bodies. The triangular IB MAD-GUA-PTY-MAD 5x weekly is operating rugularly and such market share
28 2travel2know : You're welcome to review Boeing website info for the B737-700ER, which isn't a B737-700. An estimate of a B737-700ER with 2 extra tanks and 96Y (or 4
29 AirNovaBAe146 : You're forgetting this is Latin America to Europe we're talking about. Even GIG or GRU don't have 4 departures on the same airline to MAD. No airline
30 SJOtoLIR : "The total number of Boeing Next-Generation 737s Copa has on firm order now stands at 27. The first deliveries of the 13 newly ordered airplanes will
31 OP3000 : I don't think their 73Gs necessarily need to be replaced from a competitive standpoint, despite other airlines boasting their modern fleets. Its prob
32 Hardiwv : CM-KLM cooperation is doing very well on the AMS-PTY route and I expect it to continue. Thanks for the information. What about PTY-BSB? How are the r
33 LipeGIG : The chances of success in my view are bigger at POA and CWB. About a 3rd flight to GRU, almost impossible as ANAC will not allow it. A second flight
34 2travel2know : In both POA and CWB CM must likely won't face competition from an AA MIA flight. In BSB, FOR, REC, SSA CM is out to suffer if there're non-stop fligh
35 LipeGIG : POA and CWB for sure are the two best possible new stations for CM in South America right now. Could be a good decision, VCP is developing and CM cou
36 RCS763AV : Most Latin American airlines are on par with all of IATA standards in terms of reliability and maintenance. That is not really an advantage CM has ov
37 LipeGIG : You may add: - Part of alliance, now SkyTeam, soon *A - Access to secondary markets, like COR, CNF, MAO which brings additional demand from other mar
38 Kiwiandrew : has there been any official confirmation that CM will be joining *A , I have seen lots of rumours , and it seems a logical move for all parties , but
39 OP3000 : Nothing official. I had mentioned their advantages in terms of connections. Airline reliability refers to on-time record, cancellations, lost baggage
40 LipeGIG : Kiwi, just rumors as OP300 also said
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