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777 Or 747 For LOT In Recompense For 787  
User currently offlineLot767sp-lpa From Poland, joined May 2002, 156 posts, RR: 1
Posted (5 years 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 14777 times:

My friend who works for LOT told me yesterday that LOT has received proposition from Boeing that until B787 will not join the fleet, Boeing will deliver used planes 777 or 744 depends on LOT needs. LOT will take decisions in 3-4 weeks. Probably B777 will be taken because is good for routes WAW-JFK, WAW-ORD. We have to wait.

60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 14774 times:

Seems like a pretty reasonable deal, but I highly doubt that LOT will get 747s. I think that they would be just too much airplane for them. 777s are a definite possibility though if these reports are correct, and I should think that they would fit well.


Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 14737 times:

Will be a damn fine looking triple seven if it goes through.

Gemini Jets take note!  Smile



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1871 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 14628 times:

Even 777 is too big for LO. They should either play hardball and have Boeing pay for either the new built 767-300ERs with winglets or have Boeing lease them some A330-200s.


STOP TERRORRUSSIA!!!
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8544 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 14590 times:
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I would have thought additional 767-300ERs would be more suitable for interim capacity . The 747 is absurdly large for LO , but even the 777-200ER seems far too big for their network . ( except maybe for a one or two weeks a year on US routes )


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6870 posts, RR: 63
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 14390 times:

"used" 777s. Wonder where they are coming from? Cathay, Emirates and Singapore (off the top of my head) are all reported to be looking to offload planes.

User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 14360 times:



Quoting PM (Reply 5):
Singapore (off the top of my head) are all reported to be looking to offload planes.

I don't know if any of the ones SQ is trying to dump are -200ERs. If all they have are the A models, that probably won't help LOT that much.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7058 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 14346 times:



Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 2):
Will be a damn fine looking triple seven if it goes through.

No, that would be a fine looking 747  Smile
How many used 777s are available right now ? I guess not so many and the ones available are most likely 777-200A models.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6870 posts, RR: 63
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 14345 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 6):
I don't know if any of the ones SQ is trying to dump are -200ERs. If all they have are the A models, that probably won't help LOT that much.

SQ only have -200ERs. But couldn't a basic -200 do, say, Warsaw to Chicago?


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 14309 times:



Quoting PM (Reply 8):
But couldn't a basic -200 do, say, Warsaw to Chicago?

Not with a full payload.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineDJ748 From Australia, joined Jul 2006, 355 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 14084 times:



Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 4):
I would have thought additional 767-300ERs would be more suitable for interim capacity . The 747 is absurdly large for LO , but even the 777-200ER seems far too big for their network

Boeing could easily offer their 767-400ER as interim capacity, but whether that is still too big or not is another issue.


User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10654 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 13964 times:



Quoting DJ748 (Reply 10):
Boeing could easily offer their 767-400ER as interim capacity, but whether that is still too big or not is another issue.

And who would take these obsolete niche aircraft after a few years when LOT could get their 787s? No, it makes absolutely no sense to build new frames of this sales flop.

Used 772s could. I think SQ, CX, China Eastern or Emirates would be more than happy if they could sell some surplus 772s/772ERs to Boeing. These airlines have been trying to get rid of their early built 777s for quite some time.
If Boeing suggests leasing used 744s or 777s to LOT (and not more 763s) then the airline seems to have a limited demand for a larger aircraft than they currently operate.
As much as I would like them to take some 744s, I doubt that it makes sense for LOT, even if they could lease some older frames for less than a Triple Seven. I know El Al fills 744s to fly to Poland, I dont know if LOT could do as well.


User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1661 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 13736 times:

WOULD LOOK GREAT, a T7 would be the way to go, just wish they think about some new colours and some updated IFE (avod) in Y class , would they replace all 763's x6? so are we talking a 1 for 1 swap? the 744's would be way to big for the airline their fuel bill would be huge.! for an airline that is already short of cash...


NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlineUnited787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2692 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 13689 times:

Since they don't have a fleet of either, who would fly these planes and who would maintain them???

User currently offlineSeemyseems From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 967 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 13643 times:

I think the 744 will be too big for LOT, perhaps the B772 could be a possibility, but maybe LOT should stick to B767's.

Is LOT planning any future long haul routes? Whats happening with their B737's?



seemyseems
User currently offlineFlylot From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 187 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 13622 times:

I hear rumors like this from people who "work" at LOT all the time. So I'll wait till I see it. Hope it doesn't happen though, 777 would only work during the summer.

Quoting NA (Reply 11):
El Al fills 744s to fly to Poland

That's only on charters that take place during Jewish Holidays and pilgrimages.



"In Soviet Russia, airplane flies on you"
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6870 posts, RR: 63
Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 13595 times:



Quoting NA (Reply 11):
I think SQ, CX, China Eastern or Emirates

You mean China Southern. China Eastern don't have and have never had 777s.


User currently offlineKrisYYZ From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1593 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 13580 times:

The T7 would look great in LO's colours. But I doubt that LO would want to incorporate a new type into its fleet. Even if the aircrafts were free, the start up cost may be to much to bear for LO at the moment.

KrisYYZ


User currently offlineAmirs From Israel, joined Dec 2003, 1333 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (5 years 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 13541 times:



Quoting NA (Reply 11):
I know El Al fills 744s to fly to Poland, I dont know if LOT could do as well.

LY flies 744 to Poland only for the "march of the living"., which takes place once a year in the spring.


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7058 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 13532 times:



Quoting Seemyseems (Reply 14):
Whats happening with their B737's?

I have read once that they will be replaced with EJets ?



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10654 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 13513 times:



Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 17):
The T7 would look great in LO's colours.

Hardly any different than their 767s I guess Wink

Quoting PM (Reply 16):
Quoting NA (Reply 11):
I think SQ, CX, China Eastern or Emirates

You mean China Southern. China Eastern don't have and have never had 777s.

You´re of cause right.


User currently offlineMptpa From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 545 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 13389 times:

How about the Jet Airways B773ERs being returned by Turkish? Or the ones being returned by RJ? I do believe both B744 and B777 are too big for them.... But perhaps Boeing is willing to cover the operating 'losses' too?? Either case, Boeing is trying to compensate without burning cash, which is good if they have some 'spare' frames collecting dust.

User currently offlineAA777223 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1232 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (5 years 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 13233 times:



Quoting PM (Reply 5):
Singapore

I understand SQ to be the carrier most seriosuly looking to sell their "de-rated" 772-ERs. They have been reduced from 95K lbs of thrust to 84, but I believe that is easily reversed. These powerplants are Rolls-Royce 800 series. Considering how well these aircraft have surely been taken care of, they would probably be great interim solutions.



Sic 'em bears
User currently offlineLot767sp-lpa From Poland, joined May 2002, 156 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (5 years 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 12113 times:

Just received confirmation that LOT is considering T7, and won't be too big for the routes to JFK and ORD, number of daily flights might be reduced from two to one.
second, with LOTs plans to expand long haul network, they have to upgrade quality of product to get more passengers. LOTs 767 have a very poor outfit which don't gain passengers.
With charter long haul plans, this would be good solution.


User currently offlineQantas744ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1286 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (5 years 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 12055 times:



Quoting AA777223 (Reply 22):
I understand SQ to be the carrier most seriosuly looking to sell their "de-rated" 772-ERs. They have been reduced from 95K lbs of thrust to 84, but I believe that is easily reversed. These powerplants are Rolls-Royce 800 series. Considering how well these aircraft have surely been taken care of, they would probably be great interim solutions.

That is very true! Actually a 92K downrate to 84K but that is simply a rating plug that needs to be changed and takes no time. In addition some documents would be replaced to reflect the new thrust rating.

What many dont know is that SQs 772s with Trent 884s have a MTOW of 251T and not 297T like the 892 powered ones. So a document change would be needed to reflect the new MTOW. And that needs to be purchased from Boeing which can be pretty expensive.

Leo  Smile



Happiness is V1 in Lagos
25 NA : Perfect I´d say.
26 Jfk777 : 744's are WAY too big for lot. 777 in a high coach has too many seats too. LOT 767 have small Business cabins as Polish travel is friends and relative
27 Mke717spotter : This is exactly the same thing that I'm wondering about, I mean a newly refurbished 767 just went into service about a month ago and weren't they pla
28 Flylot : this could be a replacement for the additional 767 LOT needs for their summer scheduling. As in its a summer lease because they cant find another 767.
29 Fanofjets : My guess is that a large twin, either the SQ 777s or an Airbus A330-200 would be best. LOT has plenty of experience flying ETOPS, so why would they wa
30 YULWinterSkies : Well, the 787 is supposed to be quite a lot bigger, similar in size to an A330-200, if not -300, if the 9 abreast config is used. Of course the 777 w
31 EwRkId : You forgot WAW-EWR
32 Ariis : Whichever way LO chooses, are there any talks about when the airframe(s) will be arriving? Additional capacity in autumn or winter will not make much
33 Post contains links and images Mke717spotter : I found these pics over on Modified Airliner Photos and thought I'd share them here.
34 Theredbaron : I hope we this is not the start of a trend regarding the delay of the 787. Boeing should be grateful that the world economy is now out of gear (to put
35 PM : Nice to see LOT chose RR for their 747s...
36 BestWestern : Did someone say rearrange the deckchairs? The last thing LOT needs right now is more long haul capacity and more fleet capcity. The 763 is not profita
37 OP3000 : I agree, re-negotiate for a pair of 737NGs instead.
38 BestWestern : Diasgree - re-negociate to take back all the centralwings 733's Lot should become an all E1** airline.
39 Lufthansa : Guys all of you are quick to jump on the 744's fuel bill...but none of you asked the question what will lot be paying Boeing for their use? What if th
40 Bestwestern : It has a monopoly on the vast majority of its long haul services, as they arent anywhere near profitable or sustainable. Considering introducing a 777
41 Lufthansa : If that is set in concrete and can't be changed...then what on earth do they need the 787 for in the first place? Is that perhaps the real problem an
42 Post contains links Bestwestern : That is the real problem - the 787 was part of a mini - world domination plan when things were going well back in 2005. In the past few years LOT has
43 Mgmacius : Oh my God! I love this 747 pic - T7 looks a bit too poor, but Jumbo is just perfect!
44 Delta777jet : LOT should return all long haul aircraft, they seem to miss understand the difference of having a full aircraft and earning money with it. May be only
45 Post contains links WROORD : There is an interview with the new CEO of LOT and some manager of Boeing for Europe on the topic of 787 delivery to LOT. The interview is on Polish we
46 Mke717spotter : Well the only thing which would need replacing is their current 737 fleet, right? In that case I'd say some 737NG are the clear choice as the capacit
47 Post contains links and images SXDFC : 737-85D :
48 Seemyseems : Is LOT likely to replace their B737 fleet? Their current 737's were delivered in the early to mid 90's, so a replacement could be likely.
49 Babybus : I doubt LOT would ever be capable of filling a 777 on WAW-ORD. So that option remains open to them.
50 BestWestern : If their strategy was to develop long haul, their choice of 787 for long haul was perfect, as it has a smaller capacity. I argue that their strategy
51 Par13del : The same person who "gave" it to them, Boeing, these a/c are being offered as interim lif and compensation, when the 787 becomes available, the 767 g
52 PM : It's also a question of whether you already have it or not. If you already have a fleet of 767s and they are paid for (as many airlines do) then that
53 Flylot : Yes LOT needs an additional 767 for fleet commonality. But as usual 767 are hard to come by so 777 only makes sense (I don't even know why people are
54 WROORD : The long-haul flights loads are the same for most european carriers and LOT is not an exception to that May-September, they are overbooked and in win
55 BMI727 : If LOT gets the new jets, it will most likely not be on their dime anyway.
56 WROORD : Are you suggesting that Boeing 787s are that cheap, they give them away for free??? I think they already pre-paid most cost and got nothing in return
57 BestWestern : Nobody prepays that far in advance - not even second rate government run airlines...
58 WROORD : That far in advance? 787 should have been in LOTs fleet in mid 2008.
59 Delta777jet : You can be sure LOT did not pay that much yet for the 787. WROLOT, I must admit that during summer loads picking up, but large network carriers having
60 BMI727 : No, but IF LOT were to get these rumored 777s or even 747s, it would be rather cheap for them or possibly even free. I think that several airlines go
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