Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
DL Flying 757's To Africa?!?!  
User currently offlineStealth777 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 372 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 5 days ago) and read 12159 times:

Hi there everyone,
I was at work and looking at out flight tracker screen and noticed DL227 being operated by a 752. At first I thought this was a mistake in our software program since the flight is still over the atlantic right now, so I checked on Delta's website and noticed that it wasn't a mistake.
I'm curious how long has DL assigned the 757 to this route, its JFK-DKR-ABV. I know the 757 has the range, but how big of a payload restiction are they taking on this flight? Does anyone know why the downgrade to the 757 from the 767/777?
Sorry if this has been discussed before, I searched and didn't see anything related to it.

-Stealth

37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAviationwiz From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 962 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (5 years 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 12083 times:

This has been going on since I believe the beginning of June, when ATL-JNB went non-stop, and the CPT flight shifted to ATL. There shouldn't be any significant payload restrictions on this flight, as JFK-DKR is only slightly farther than JFK-AMS, which SA)">NW does on a 752, and is slightly longer than EWR-BCN, which SA)">CO does with a 752.

JFK-DKR is a 752, and ATL-DKR is/used to be a 763, however, now that CPT is being canceled, and NBO never took off, I believe that is the end of ATL-DKR service, which will shift some traffic undoubtedly to JFK on SA)">DL, but also to IAD and JFK (west-bound) on SA.



Proudly from the Home of the Red Tail.
User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1760 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (5 years 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 12014 times:

The 757-200s can make it to DKR fine from JFK or ATL for that matter, without weight restrictions (at least on the way there, maybe occasionally coming back yes). Its about the same distance as PHL-OSL on US or EWR-BCN and EWR-CPH on CO.

The flight is running three times a week now, and will go back to twice a week in the fall IIRC. They are running a 777 from ATL-LOS, which although not the capital is by far more populated than ABV (similar to NY vs. DC).

The TSA blocked them from starting JFK-DKR-ROB on a 757 as well, because of security concerns at Monrovia (they also cancelled JFK-DKR-NBO for the same reason). Those 757s have PTVs, and by being run only a few times a week and with a stop to drop off and pick up passengers in DKR, they are virtually guaranteed decent loads.

They are gradually making DKR into the African version of NRT for them. Does anyone know whether they are allowed to sell tickets from DKR to the other destinations in Africa?

[Edited 2009-07-18 02:38:19]

[Edited 2009-07-18 02:39:57]

User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7402 posts, RR: 57
Reply 3, posted (5 years 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 11934 times:



Quoting Stealth777 (Thread starter):
I know the 757 has the range, but how big of a payload restiction are they taking on this flight?

JFK-DKR is "only" 3307 nm, so no "big playoad restriction".

CO's EWR-TXL is 3458 nm and many other B757 flights are longer than DL's JFK-DKR.


User currently offlinePlanesailing From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 815 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 11902 times:



Quoting OP3000 (Reply 2):
Does anyone know whether they are allowed to sell tickets from DKR to the other destinations in Africa?

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/114419.pdf

The United States and Sengeal have an Open Skies Air Service Agreement, so yes they can.


User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3186 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (5 years 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 11758 times:



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 3):
CO's EWR-TXL is 3458 nm and many other B757 flights are longer than DL's JFK-DKR.

CO's EWR-TXL isn't the longest either. DL has both CVG-AMS and ATL-REC that are both considerably longer, also run on their 757's.

The DL ex-TW 757's are pretty impressive planes. In addition to their winglets, they are all rated the 757 max-certifiable MGTOW of 255,000# along with PW2043's at 43,000# thrust-rate each.

DL has seemingly decided to use most of the NW 75A's in the Pacific and on a handful of routes across the Atlantic, as those birds are also at 255,000# MGTOW but they have the more-efficient yet slightly less-capable PW2037's at 37,000# thrust-rate.



A340-500: 4 engines 4 long haul. 777-200LR: 2 engines 4 longer haul
User currently offlineIADCA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1256 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (5 years 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 11365 times:



Quoting Planesailing (Reply 4):

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/114419.pdf

The United States and Sengeal have an Open Skies Air Service Agreement, so yes they can.

Not necessarily. The language here sounds like Fifth Freedom ("beyond"/ see Annex I), but I'm not sure it gives traffic rights here. The reason I wonder is that it's also the same language, except for formatting, which is in the EU-US Open Skies, and that doesn't give European carriers traffic rights to fly, say, LAX-YYZ AFAIK. Note the contrast between the passenger service and what it allows for cargo, which is Seventh with traffic rights.


User currently offlineAirNovaBAe146 From Canada, joined Jun 2008, 362 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 11168 times:



Quoting OP3000 (Reply 2):
(they also cancelled JFK-DKR-NBO for the same reason).

How can this be so. The NBO airport is a widely used international hub; among other airlines that fly there are BA, KL, LX, EK, SA, AI, Ethiopian, EgyptAir, plus the hometown KQ.

Although the terminal is pretty nondescript, each gate has a boarding lounge where pax are screened for security (similar to AMS). If it works for some of the premier European airlines who go to NBO, I don't know why it wouldn't work for DL.


User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4336 posts, RR: 19
Reply 8, posted (5 years 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 11072 times:



Quoting IADCA (Reply 6):
and that doesn't give European carriers traffic rights to fly, say, LAX-YYZ AFAIK

Yes, they can fly LAX-YYZ and sell tickets on LAX-YYZ provided the flight ultimately originates or terminates in Europe.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlinePilotboi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2366 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (5 years 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 11019 times:

13 of the 17 75Es (Trans-Atlantic 757s/Ex-AA 757s) just recently got a mod to increase the lav tank size. This was necessary to fly this extra long routes and back. Headrests in Y and SATCOM was also added to the entire 75E fleet.

User currently offlineIADCA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1256 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (5 years 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 10932 times:



Quoting Avek00 (Reply 8):
Yes, they can fly LAX-YYZ and sell tickets on LAX-YYZ provided the flight ultimately originates or terminates in Europe.

Good to know; it looked like it from the language, but I figured this would have been discussed more (and maybe even tried by some carriers). Learn somethin' every day.


User currently offline1011 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 315 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 10834 times:

Now this is just me but who in their right mind would even want to fly on a 757 for those distances. It sucks enough on a trancon. 3-3 one aisle. I guess I am spoiled by the widebody! SAN-IAD is pretty much my max distance on a narrowbody. Even after 5 hrs you have to pull me out of the seat with a crowbar. But like I said this is just me.

User currently offlineDirectorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1650 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (5 years 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 10710 times:



Quoting 1011 (Reply 11):
Now this is just me but who in their right mind would even want to fly on a 757 for those distances. It sucks enough on a trancon. 3-3 one aisle. I guess I am spoiled by the widebody! SAN-IAD is pretty much my max distance on a narrowbody. Even after 5 hrs you have to pull me out of the seat with a crowbar. But like I said this is just me.

I agree, especially with the lack of PTVs in Y. But USA-Africa is pretty much a niche market for DL. Pax would otherwise have to take a detour via Europe or the Middle East. Those stops add at least 4 hours each way, IImNM.


User currently offlineThegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (5 years 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 10657 times:

Quoting OP3000 (Reply 2):
They are gradually making DKR into the African version of NRT for them.

   .........number 1 it's DKR.....2 there's only so many African airports which meet EU and FAA standards....

Quoting AirNovaBAe146 (Reply 7):

How can this be so. The NBO airport is a widely used international hub; among other airlines that fly there are BA, KL, LX, EK, SA, AI, Ethiopian, EgyptAir, plus the hometown KQ.

Exactly NBO is easily up there when it comes to East Africa....there's no way it's security concerns unless they wanted to start the route 6 years ago.....

Quoting 1011 (Reply 11):
Now this is just me but who in their right mind would even want to fly on a 757 for those distances.

I can't stand flying on a 752 transatlantic.....but RDU-ATL...it's great

[Edited 2009-07-18 10:48:25]


Our Returning Champion
User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4336 posts, RR: 19
Reply 14, posted (5 years 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 10591 times:



Quoting 1011 (Reply 11):
who in their right mind would even want to fly on a 757 for those distances

*Raises hand*

I'd take the DL international 757, with PTV and all, over the DL 763 any day of the week. Than again, I'm also a fan of the 747 upper deck, so I'm basically unfazed by narrowbody flying over long distances.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineThegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (5 years 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 10591 times:

My bad here's why NBO is a no go for DL...
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Airlin...irobi-apf-3071256710.html?x=0&.v=2
Airlines flying to Nairobi hire private guards



Our Returning Champion
User currently offlinePlanesailing From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 815 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 10584 times:



Quoting IADCA (Reply 6):
Not necessarily. The language here sounds like Fifth Freedom ("beyond"/ see Annex I), but I'm not sure it gives traffic rights here. The reason I wonder is that it's also the same language, except for formatting, which is in the EU-US Open Skies, and that doesn't give European carriers traffic rights to fly, say, LAX-YYZ AFAIK. Note the contrast between the passenger service and what it allows for cargo, which is Seventh with traffic rights.

The air service agreement states:

"From points behind the United States via the United States and intermediate points to a point or points in Senegal and beyond."

From the way I read that it states that a flight can originate from the United States, transit via an intermediate point, land in Senegal and then continue to another destination in Senegal or beyond.


User currently offlineIADCA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1256 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (5 years 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 10470 times:



Quoting Planesailing (Reply 16):
The air service agreement states:

"From points behind the United States via the United States and intermediate points to a point or points in Senegal and beyond."

From the way I read that it states that a flight can originate from the United States, transit via an intermediate point, land in Senegal and then continue to another destination in Senegal or beyond.

That's correct; my impression of the parallel language in EU-US was wrong. Sorry for the needless haggling. That said, it still presents some difficulties, since everything still must be operated as tag-ons.


User currently offlinePlanesailing From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 815 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 10426 times:

The US - EU air service agreement also states the same wording:

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/114872.pdf


User currently offlineSteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1606 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (5 years 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 10399 times:



Quoting IADCA (Reply 10):
Good to know; it looked like it from the language, but I figured this would have been discussed more (and maybe even tried by some carriers). Learn somethin' every day.

The most obvious example of this that comes to mind is CX flying HKG-YVR-JFK daily with full traffic rights on the YVR-JFK-YVR sectors.


User currently offline28L28L From Australia, joined Nov 2005, 459 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 10351 times:

I've lost track of DL's operations throuth DKR.
Do they currently have anything in addition to JFK-DKR-ABV, and the soon to be discontinued DKR-CPT?
Cheers.


User currently offlineJoseKMLB From United States of America, joined May 2008, 493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9979 times:



Quoting 28L28L (Reply 20):
and the soon to be discontinued DKR-CPT?

Looks like 29th of AUG will be last flight.


User currently offlineManfredj From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9894 times:



Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 5):
The DL ex-TW 757's are pretty impressive planes.

Here here! Long live the 757. The 757 never ceases to amaze me. Brilliant brilliant aircraft. Now imagine if there was away to make it slightly more fuel efficient with a new wing and engines.



757: The last of the best
User currently offlineAviateur From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1351 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (5 years 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 9378 times:

Quoting 1011 (Reply 11):
Now this is just me but who in their right mind would even want to fly on a 757 for those distances.

JFK to DKR is only about 7 hours, which is on a par with many US-Europe pairings served by the 757. Shorter than some, actually.

The Cape Town service, while it lasts, is via Atlanta, but New York flight crews are flying some of these rotations. Some of the assignments are quite long (eight or nine days), going JFK-DKR-CPT, then returning to DKR with an Abuja turn thrown in before returning to New York. Crews fly a mix of 757 and 767.

And yes, DL can carry local traffic two and from Dakar.

I've posted some photos from layovers in CPT and DKR if anybody wants to see them....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/globetrodden/sets/

Hopefully I'll have some pics from Abuja added in a couple of weeks....

[Edited 2009-07-18 13:44:35]


Patrick Smith is an airline pilot, air travel columnist and author
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15713 posts, RR: 26
Reply 24, posted (5 years 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 8524 times:



Quoting ThegreatRDU (Reply 13):
I can't stand flying on a 752 transatlantic.....but RDU-ATL...it's great

Having been on a DL 75E, I can tell you that those planes are perfectly adequate for going across the pond. I think that the BizElite seats are the same as Virgin America's first class ones.

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 8):
Yes, they can fly LAX-YYZ and sell tickets on LAX-YYZ provided the flight ultimately originates or terminates in Europe.

Pakistan Airlines used to fly IAH-YYZ I think. And I want to say that LAN flew from JFK to YYZ.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
25 Steex : Good catch, LAN does still operate that route SCL-JFK-YYZ in fact. I seem to recall PR also flies MNL-YVR-LAS too, and I believe RJ also has some of
26 Viscount724 : Open Skies with Senegal doesn't automatically give DL 5th freedom rights beyond DKR. The air services agreement with the other country involved (e.g.
27 Aviateur : I did some research, and turns out local traffic is NOT allowed between Dakar and Abuja. This is not true with South Africa, but apparently it's the
28 Panamair : DL's transoceanic 752s all have AVOD PTVs at every seat.
29 KGAIflyer : TACV ["Cabo" Verde Airways] has been flying two 757s between BOS and SID and JFK and SID as long as I can remember (and remembering that Cape Verde i
30 OP3000 : Yes on both points - PR does that route still, and they sell the YVR-LAS segment too (and well priced if I may add). And RJ does a very short YUL-DTW
31 Steex : The point being discussed at the time (as I understood it) was whether or not the agreement between Canada and USA allowed fifth freedom operations,
32 Pellegrine : Thank u for posting, I love your photos! Your flickr page looks like a rainbow kaleidoscope of travel, word.
33 Viscount724 : AI no longer operates JFK-LHR. They dropped that 5th freedom service a few months ago. All their JFK flights are now nonstop to/from India and their
34 MAH4546 : Air France flies MIA-PAP-FDF, which is fifth freedom (FDF is considered part of France). I don't get what we are trying to figure out. U.S. and EU ha
35 SeaBosDca : I remember you telling me in an earlier thread that the NW 75As were at 240klb MTOW. Did DL uprate them?
36 OP3000 : AFAIK before the merger NW had eight 757-200s with winglets that had an MGTOW of 255,000lb. They used to route these to Europe from DTW, primarily to
37 SurfandSnow : DL (and other airlines, notably CO and US) either fly the 757 to smaller markets that cannot support widebody service or only service the major gatewa
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
CO Flying A 757 To AMA? posted Fri Sep 10 2004 05:30:54 by United4EverDEN
DL Completes First Trans A In Etops 757 To SNN posted Fri Sep 7 2007 18:19:50 by GWYIRE
DL Starts 757 Service To PNS Today. posted Fri Sep 1 2006 10:25:31 by JmhLUV2fly
DL 394 Change To 757. Why? posted Wed Nov 30 2005 21:45:54 by Cgnnrw
What Is Tony Blair Flying To Africa? posted Tue Oct 5 2004 08:36:06 by ETStar
DL 762 Flying GYR To ATL posted Wed Jul 14 2004 22:14:08 by Pbiflyer
Air India Flying To Africa Via Dxb? posted Mon Dec 2 2002 00:07:21 by United777
When Did DL Start 757 Service To Day? posted Sat Oct 26 2002 02:04:18 by Maiznblu_757
NWA Flying 757-200 To Mdw? posted Tue Oct 15 2002 08:04:16 by Mexicana757
What Is DL Flying To Europe From Cvg? posted Mon Jun 18 2001 03:55:03 by ContinentalEWR