United Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 8541 posts, RR: 21 Posted (11 years 1 month 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1648 times:
Hey! As you all know, the MD 11 was designed to replace the DC 10.
Before the Boeing-MD Merger, MD had plans to build a larger version of the MD 11 as well as the MD 12. However, these plans were scrapped due to the merger.
I personally think that Boeing can consider building an new MD 11 with much more efficiency as well as fuel consumption. And of course, with higher capacity.
What do you guys think?
Do you guys think Boeing will ever make a new version of the MD 11? Or a replacement which has only 2 engines?
PhilB From Ireland, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 2915 posts, RR: 17 Reply 1, posted (11 years 1 month 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1497 times:
Simple answer - NO
Where would it fit in the Boeing family - given their latest announcements?
Which airlines would want something that other types could either offer, or be manipulated to offer.
The MD11 was a first rate example of the opposite of the saying "if it looks right it'll fly right". The MD11 looks wrong and has given nothing but trouble.
Boeing did the world a favour when it canned production and the world's airlines are rapidly realising that it might just about be good enough for hauling cargo, but the MD10 is, in fact, better.
Its just a pity that the last in a mighty line of airliners was such a dog.
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 61 Reply 3, posted (11 years 1 month 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1449 times:
Why? The 777 family covers everything that the MD11 and proposed MD12 can do and/or were supposed to do; and the 764 covers the "lower capacity" requirements. The MD-11 was successful as a freighter, but there are a good number of pax MD-11s that are or will be available in the future for freighter conversion; Boeing also has the 763F, 744F and, maybe in the future, a 777F, to cover the freighter market in the longer term.
OO-VEG From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 1081 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (11 years 1 month 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1434 times:
Just like the others say, Boeing already has the 777 which is quite similar (read similar or better) than the MD-11.
The reason for trijets to be built was because airlines and passengers didn't like the idea of flying long distance woth only 2 engines for some years ago. Therefore they came up with the trijet. But nowadays everybody knows twinjets are as safe as tri- or 4-jet aircraft. So why do you need that extra engine?
B7474 From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 235 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (11 years 1 month 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1414 times:
How bout the Airbus A340 it is more succesful I think then the MD-11, how did Airbus get to sell better?Anyway back to the topic I think the MD-11 or trijets are dead so no more MD-11 plus who would want with the Boeing 777-200.
456 From Netherlands, joined Feb 2001, 259 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (11 years 1 month 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1390 times:
Well, may we say that tje md11 was a flop(if you may say so) then?
What aircraft will be replaced for this aircraft at KLM? Is KLM ordering the 777 instead for it?
FlagshipAZ From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3419 posts, RR: 18 Reply 9, posted (11 years 1 month 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1364 times:
Just my two cents here...Boeing should have continue to build the MD-11 as a freighter only. The freighter version would & could sell pretty good. You never know what the US Air Force may replace their KC-10s with. And while I'm not knocking down the C-17, the MD-11 is cheaper for the foreign air forces to acquire. Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
456 From Netherlands, joined Feb 2001, 259 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (11 years 1 month 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1356 times:
What is the reason why de MD series are so popular for freight, but not for pax? Is the 3rd engine that bad? What was the purpose to use that 3rd engine on the tail. I heard that de MD11 had a too small tail, because the engine takes a substantial part of it.
United Airline: Do you know (app.) at what time base that is? 1 yr, of more like 10 yrs?
If the KLM is smart, they wait indeed for some 5 yrs, so the 747LR is more popular/in common.
Adam84 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1400 posts, RR: 3 Reply 11, posted (11 years 1 month 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1350 times:
The DC-10 was first thought up with only 2 engines, but then American Airlines said they needed it to be able to operate from existing runways so they added the third engine. Just imagine if it was built with only 2 engines and it was built without any design flaws, Boeing would probably be running for their money right now.
VirginA340 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 15 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (11 years 1 month 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1341 times:
Mc Donnell Douglass had a good thing going from the DC-10-30. A big improvement from the DC-10-10; but ruined it with the inefficiant both in maintinance and in fuel as well on how far it can fly. Where the series 30 would soar and be cost effective back in the day; the 40 would be the oppisite. The MD-11 had gotten MD into a bigger hole considering that their most valued customer AA was quite dissappointed and then CEO Robert Crandall canceled their optional orders. He was angry that the plane could not fly further on a full payload and that it guzzled way too mus fuel and was too expensive to maintain.
The 11's safety record wasn't goo either. the Wall ST Journal (September 2000 issue) In it there were FED EX pilots trying to avoid the 11 by flying the 10, 727, A300 or other aircraft and those based at MEM, ANC, EWR called it The Scud or Mega Death 11. The rudder was so small that one needs a fighter pilot's mentality to fly it. The problem with DL's 11s were so bad that pilots demaded an MD tech on-board for the first month. There was a chart comparing the accident/incident rating of the 11 to other aircraft. If the plane has an inciden/accident rating higher than the DC-10 and equivelant to the 707 and the DC-8 after only 9 years of service then something is definantly wrong with this plane. All of this is in the September late 2000 issue of the Wall Street Journal.
I agree with PhilB and I'm glad that Boeing has shut down the produaction to focus on the 777.
Cba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4530 posts, RR: 4 Reply 13, posted (11 years 1 month 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1324 times:
Problem with the MD-11 is that MDC didn't get it right the first time. The original MD-11 guzzled too much fuel, and could not carry a load of pax the promised range. MDC later fixed this by releasing the MD-11ER, but it was too late. SIA cancelled their major order, and it was all downhill from there.
There is no way that Boeing will build the MD-11 or MD-12. Boeing already has the 777-200ER in the 250-300 pax market, and it is a better aircraft than the MD-11. Boeing has the 777-300ER and the 744 in the market that the MD-12 was proposed to cover.
456 From Netherlands, joined Feb 2001, 259 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (11 years 1 month 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1311 times:
Indeed VirginA340, i read that specific article as well. What me suprises was that in this century, you have such incident table. One reason is the rudder they mentioned. But is the rudder for a dc10-30/40 larger?
What me otherwise suprise, is that there are not any other airliners think so.
Is KLM not satisfied with it? Why did they choose this ac anyway? Wasn't there an alternative 10yrs ago?
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 61 Reply 15, posted (11 years 1 month 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1301 times:
KLM, was a loyal Douglas customer, it was reported that KLM got a really good deal on their ten MD-11s, and they could trade-in the DC-10s still in their fleet for them - an offer too good to refuse? KLM, like Swissair, was very pleased with their DC-10s (almost the economics of a 747 Classic, good cargo payloads, the "correct" amount of pax capacity and range) and, I guess, had hoped that the MD-11 would be even better. It wasn't, as stated above. There was an alternative 10 years ago, called the Airbus 330/340, but KLM was not thrilled with its A310s and stuck with Douglas. Now, KLM is looking for one aircraft type to replace its MD11, 747 Classic and 763 fleets; rumour has it that it will be a mix of 772 and 773 aircraft, but Airbus is still in the compeition with the 332/333/345/346.
Qantas737 From Australia, joined Jul 2000, 738 posts, RR: 5 Reply 16, posted (11 years 1 month 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1293 times:
The answer is NO. The MD-11 wasn't very successful to begin with so why would they build a successor to it? Airlines prefer twin engine aircraft for operations these days with 777 for ETOPS and so on. If they arent too keen on twins, they can always opt for the economical 4 engined A340 family, simple.
Your second question, will Boeing build a 2 engine replacement for it? They already have in the 777 family.
AerLingus From China, joined Mar 2000, 2371 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (11 years 1 month 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1278 times:
The 763 is by no means old enough to replace. It was build in the '70's and was build for a number of years after. At max, the oldest 763 in regular service would be around twenty years of age.
PhilB From Ireland, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 2915 posts, RR: 17 Reply 20, posted (11 years 1 month 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1267 times:
The main problem with the MD11 from a control point of view is the tailplane which is 40% SMALLER than the DC10.
It was designed this way for better handling at cruise speeds but is causes the aircraft to be unstable in crosswinds and windshear conditions on final approach, just the time you need stability - as FedEx, Mandarin and a few others have found out.
JAL From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 4953 posts, RR: 9 Reply 21, posted (11 years 1 month 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1235 times:
Boeing already have the 767 and 777 so they're not likely to built new versions of the MD-11 though it would be great to see new versions of the MD-11.
Trintocan From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2000, 3134 posts, RR: 5 Reply 23, posted (11 years 1 month 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1211 times:
Sad to say, the simple answer to this question is that the trijet concept is now obsolete. At least 3 engines were needed in the past to ensure adequate take-off and landing performance (as mentioned earlier) and to cross oceans in the pre-ETOPS days of the '80s. As such the trijet was promising as a less costly alternative to the very large 747 and the then obsolescent 707/DC8 and in fact fitted well into an intermediate slot. However, since then aircraft engines have evolved rapidly so that 2 engines are needed to do what 3 were once required for and then at significant savings in fuel consumption and even better performance.
By the way, Boeing is not keen on in-house competition, hence the dropping of MD80 and MD90 along with MD11.
So, no new MD11 or derivative model will ever arise. The future is with the 777 and updated models of 767 and 747.
N766AS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (11 years 1 month 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1195 times:
>Just my two cents here...Boeing should have continue to build the MD-11 as a freighter only
Thus the MD-10 was born...
25 Red Panda: I don't think so. The 777 is actually a direct competitor to MD11. Moreover, the tail-mounted engine is very costly to be repaired. It just won't be a
27 Ribbon-Demon: Here at Delta, we are going to get rid of the god awful MD11! United Airline: you seem kinda quiet...is everything ok? Or did we just scare you?
28 456: Skippy>to get away from pursuing fighter jets (useful in Peru).
29 United Airline: I was busy and I didn't have time to check the replies. I think Boeing should have continued the MD 11F.
30 Skippy208: I was busy and I didn't have time to check the replies Really, United Airline? I was under the impression that posting here was more or less a full ti
31 Cfalk: To those who say Trijets are dead, I would argue the same about 4-engined aircraft. If twins are perfectly good for long-distances, using ETOPS proced
32 United Airline: You can't call it a job can you? Coz I am not making money. I am a Freshman student and I am quite busy with the tests coming up. Des
33 Dutchjet: To the questions about KLM's 763s above, yes they are newer aircraft, but they are on 10 year leases which start to expire in about 4 to 5 years time.
34 Qantas737: United Airline, he does seem to have a point there. Some kind of test coming up, I hope it involves how to use this forum
35 Baec777: I consider the Boeing 777s to replace all Boeing widebodied trijets(DC10/MD11). So Boeing MD-10 is Boeing newest freighter trijet only for cargos. Boe
37 Woodsboy: Boeing wont be resurecting any new varient of the MD-11 although I think that if they had kept the MD-11 around as a frieghter only they could have se
38 Srbmod: If the MD-11 is such a great plane, why are so many airlines getting rid of them. Delta and Swissair have already sold theirs to FedEx and UPS once th
39 Teahan: Hey, Srbmod, what you said is definitely wrong! The Swissair ones are sold but the last one will only leave in 2006. FedEX and UPS are not getting rid
40 Woodsboy: Please be aware that Delta is not getting rid of their MD-11s, they are not earmarked for freighter conversion at this time. Swissair IS returning all
41 GOT: No, I can't see that Boeing will build a new MD11. The main reason is that they already have an airplane in the segment - the 777. So why build anothe
42 FedExHeavy: Not going to happen, that's like saying that Lockheed should build a L-1011, it also might give counter competition to Boeing's B777. That's what I th
43 United Airline: I have heard rumours about Lockheed building another Commerical Aircraft. The L 1011 NG.
44 Trintocan: A resurrection of the MD11F is also out of the question. When Boeing and MD merged it considered the futures of all of the jetliners which MD had in p
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