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UAL Suspends IAD-PEK And Other Intl Fall Changes  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26025 posts, RR: 50
Posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 21320 times:

Here is a summary of the current United winter long haul flying plan.

Big change is the suspension of IAD-PEK for the winter schedule, while a new replacement NRT-PEK flight is planned. Also several equipment type changes, and a few frequency adjustments.


Pacific
HNL-NRT -- daily 777 (downgauge from 744)
IAD-NRT -- daily 744 (upgauge from 777)
IAD-PEK -- suspended 10/24 -- 3/28
LAX-NRT -- daily 777 (downgauge from 744)
LAX-SYD-MEL -- daily 744
ORD-HKG -- daily 744
ORD-NRT -- daily 744
ORD-PEK -- daily 777
ORD-PVG -- daily 777 (downgauge from 744)
SEA-NRT -- daily 777
SFO-HKG -- daily 744
SFO-ICN -- 5x weekly 777
SFO-KIX -- 5x weekly 777
SFO-NRT -- daily 744 (2nd daily suspended)
SFO-PEK -- daily 777
SFO-PVG -- daily 777 (downgauge from 744)
SFO-SYD -- daily 744

Intra-Asia
HKG-SIN -- daily 744
HKG-SGN -- daily 744
NRT-BKK -- daily 744
NRT-ICN -- daily 777
NRT-PEK -- New daily 777 eff 10/25-3/27
NRT-SIN -- daily 777
NRT-TPE -- daily 744 (upgauge from 777)


Atlantic
IAD-AMS -- daily 777
IAD-BRU -- daily 777
IAD-CDG -- daily 777
IAD-DME -- 4x weekly 763
IAD-DXB - daily 777
IAD-FCO -- daily 763
IAD-FRA -- 2x daily 777 + daily 763
IAD-GVA -- daily 763
IAD-KWI -- daily 777
IAD-LHR -- 2x daily 777 + daily 763
IAD-MUC -- daily 777
IAD-ZRH -- daily 763
LAX-LHR -- daily 777
ORD-AMS -- daily 763
ORD-CDG -- daily 763
ORD-FRA -- 2x daily 777
ORD-LHR -- 3x daily 763
ORD-MUC -- daily 777 (upgauge from 763)
SFO-LHR -- daily 777 (2nd daily suspended)
SFO-FRA -- daily 744


South American
IAD-EZE -- daily 763
IAD-GIG -- daily 763 only 12/17-1/13
IAD-GRU-GIG daily 777. GIG tag suspended when GIG nonstop operates
ORD-GRU -- daily 763


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
90 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 21312 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
SFO-FRA -- daily 744

any word on the second SFO-FRA flight, UA 927? I assume it also is suspended?



John@SFO
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26025 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 21290 times:



Quoting Legacyins (Reply 1):
any word on the second SFO-FRA flight, UA 927? I assume it also is suspended?

That was seasonal summer only anyhow. Same as the DEN-LHR.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33194 posts, RR: 71
Reply 3, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 21179 times:

Has Narita implemented special exceptions for the "use it or lose it" rules given the current economy? It seems everybody is suspending Narita frequencies!


a.
User currently offlineScorpy From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 401 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 21155 times:

LaxIntl - Does this mean they park any more 744's than was previously announced?

With more routes going 772, it means that less chance of getting the upgraded C configuration.


User currently offlineLHUSA From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 569 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 21020 times:

Apparently, UA will also add a daily LHR-BRU effective 25 OCT.

UA938 LHRBRU dep 120p arr 335p 777

UA929 BRULHR dep 605a arr 620a 777

Interesting flight!


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26025 posts, RR: 50
Reply 6, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 21005 times:

Yes 744 utilization is definitely down again, but dont think will park any below the 24 planned fleet size quite yet particularly as the costly new interiors are almost done. With some luck they should get more work by Summer 2010.

It was announced the 777 IPTE refits were delayed and wont commence till Feb 2010 now.
UA 777 Fleet Upgrade Postponed (by RampRat74 Jul 10 2009 in Civil Aviation)



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1551 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 21006 times:

Hmm, looks like SFO was hit the worst and ORD was the least affected. International traffic is down horribly right now and SFO has a higher percentage of int. seats than probably any other UA hub.

Unless I calculated wrong it looks like the schedule will only use 19 or 20 744s. I wonder what will happen with the remaining six?



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3728 posts, RR: 19
Reply 8, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 21011 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
IAD-GIG -- daily 763 only 12/17-1/13

Why do they even bother... US must be thrilled.


User currently offlineScorpy From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 401 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 21001 times:



Quoting LHUSA (Reply 5):
Apparently, UA will also add a daily LHR-BRU effective 25 OCT.

UA938 LHRBRU dep 120p arr 335p 777

UA929 BRULHR dep 605a arr 620a 777

Interesting flight!

I wonder if this is to preserve slots


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11458 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 20936 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
IAD-GIG -- daily 763 only 12/17-1/13

Thanks for the info, seems that UA presence this year will be even smaller. They are almost using the 7 frequencies as the seasonal upgrade authorized by the bilateral.
But considering current market conditions, smart decision, even making UA lose the rest of the market they keep in Rio.
South America for sure is not their priority



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineJoeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 20946 times:



Quoting LHUSA (Reply 5):
Apparently, UA will also add a daily LHR-BRU effective 25 OCT.

UA938 LHRBRU dep 120p arr 335p 777

UA929 BRULHR dep 605a arr 620a 777

Interesting flight!

Wow...really????

Does UA have 5th Freedom rights on this flight???

So IAD-BRU stays and gets an additional LHR-BRU right?


User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4412 posts, RR: 19
Reply 12, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 20913 times:



Quoting LHUSA (Reply 5):
UA938 LHRBRU dep 120p arr 335p 777

UA929 BRULHR dep 605a arr 620a 777

Interesting flight!

...and the kicker is that UA can sell seats on that flight under the US-EU Open Skies agreement.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineDctennis From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 6 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 20912 times:

i'm just excited to see a UA 747 back at IAD  Big grin

User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17786 posts, RR: 46
Reply 14, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 20850 times:



Quoting Scorpy (Reply 9):
I wonder if this is to preserve slots

It's certainly not to preserve cash Wink

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
Has Narita implemented special exceptions for the "use it or lose it" rules given the current economy? It seems everybody is suspending Narita frequencies!

I've wondered the same, particular for another NRT resident.

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
IAD-PEK -- suspended 10/24 -- 3/28

This was a lost cause from the start.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26025 posts, RR: 50
Reply 15, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 20828 times:

I believe those are part of the 4 slots that United had leased out in Nov 2005 that are coming back now.

However in the mean time airlines are desperately soliciting for suspension of the use or lose slot rules for IATA W09/10.

Even BA's winter plans hinge much on such a decision
BA%20Cuts" target=_blank>http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener...0Could%20Prompt%20More%20BA%20Cuts

Ultimately if approved, I dont expect the flights to operate actualy. Long term I can see UA leasing the slots out again with first bids going to Star partners.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33194 posts, RR: 71
Reply 16, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 20766 times:



Quoting Scorpy (Reply 9):
Quoting LHUSA (Reply 5):
Apparently, UA will also add a daily LHR-BRU effective 25 OCT.

UA938 LHRBRU dep 120p arr 335p 777

UA929 BRULHR dep 605a arr 620a 777

Interesting flight!

I wonder if this is to preserve slots

Probably. They also did this around 2001/2002, at one point operating both LHR-BRU and LHR-AMS.



a.
User currently offlineScorpy From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 401 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 20762 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 15):
Ultimately if approved, I dont expect the flights to operate actualy. Long term I can see UA leasing the slots out again with first bids going to Star partners.

I wonder if continental would be interested as part of their partnership with UA.


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 18, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 20738 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
IAD-AMS -- daily 777

Good to see UA holding firm in AMS although AMS is not Star market.

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
South American
IAD-EZE -- daily 763
IAD-GIG -- daily 763 only 12/17-1/13
IAD-GRU-GIG daily 777. GIG tag suspended when GIG nonstop operates
ORD-GRU -- daily 763

ORD-GRU B763 and IAD-EZE B767 were both operated with B777 in Winter 08/09, correct? At some point in the past I guess IAD-EZE was even operated with B747.

It seems UA is not using TAM to upgrade its market in Brazil. Good to see the return of GIG nonstop if at least for 4 weeks while the double daily GRU is confirmed.

AA, UA and KE are the only airlines using the B777 between Brazil and the US.

Rgs,


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3728 posts, RR: 19
Reply 19, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 20636 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
IAD-GIG -- daily 763 only 12/17-1/13

On ual.com the flight is only available until 1/10.


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4956 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 20597 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting LHUSA (Reply 5):
Apparently, UA will also add a daily LHR-BRU effective 25 OCT.

UA938 LHRBRU dep 120p arr 335p 777

UA929 BRULHR dep 605a arr 620a 777

Interesting that they're sending the 777; both 938 and 929 are ORD-LHR-ORD flights with the 763. It's not like BRU needs more capacity to/from the U.S., and in the winter no less....


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26025 posts, RR: 50
Reply 21, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 20569 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16):
Probably. They also did this around 2001/2002, at one point operating both LHR-BRU and LHR-AMS.

 checkmark  both the BRU and AMS tags have operated over various periods since acquiring Pan Am's LHR ops.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 18):
ORD-GRU B763 and IAD-EZE B767 were both operated with B777 in Winter 08/09, correct?

No EZE was a 763, while ORD-GRU was upgauged briefly to the 777 for about 2-months due to the 767 cabin refit program.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 18):
At some point in the past I guess IAD-EZE was even operated with B747.

Last time UA reguarly scheduled the 747 into EZE was with the MIA hub.

However in 2004 a couple individual flights upgrauged to a 744 to accomodate very heavy loads for Christmas holiday.
UA 744 In EZE Tomorrow! (by Estick Dec 20 2004 in Civil Aviation)



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11458 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 20512 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting C010T3 (Reply 19):
On ual.com the flight is only available until 1/10.

Never imagine to see UA giving up the January market. But their results this year was not so fantastic. While DL got 90% loads on a bigger plane, UA just reach 67%



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 23, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 20489 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 21):
while ORD-GRU was upgauged briefly to the 777 for about 2-months due to the 767 cabin refit program.

Thanks for the clarification.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 21):
Last time UA reguarly scheduled the 747 into EZE was with the MIA hub.



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 21):
However in 2004 a couple individual flights upgrauged to a 744 to accomodate very heavy loads for Christmas holiday

Again, thanks for the information. I was referring to the seasonal upgrade in 2004 Christmas. Thanks again.

Rgs,


User currently offlineUA933 From Germany, joined Feb 2006, 220 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 20343 times:

That's minus two 744 routes. Will this result in a further parking wave of the 747s?


united - It's time to fly!
25 MaverickM11 : I really don't know what UA gets out of GIGIAD. GIGNYC is bad enough and the WAS market is much smaller, although the fares are a little better.
26 LipeGIG : Theres a strong VFR traffic out of WAS area to Brazil as well as government traffic. As you know, BSB is not connected, so they depend on connections
27 Doug_or : nice to see TPE go to a 744, seems like that was often a very packed flight.
28 RJpieces : Why?
29 Enilria : Can they really sell local seats? I thought once the EU bilateral came into play it was then considered 8th freedom (single market) and not 5th freed
30 Jfk777 : Whatever happened to the Capitol to Capitol concept UA sold the DOT on to when they were awarded the route. UA didn't want AA going from ORD to PEK.
31 LAXintl : I think its a mute point. Global economies have changed everything. Anyhow AA was later awarded ORD-PEK, but in August 2008 they already sought its d
32 Coolfish1103 : I thought the traffic in Taiwan to and from Japan has gone significantly lower... it's probably just transit passengers to the US.
33 SurfandSnow : Its too bad UA went for the IAD-PEK route to grab the high profile Olympics traffic and didn't think of the opportunity for LAX-PVG until well after t
34 Flanders : Quite fascinating indeed! I found out the above flight numbers already exist: UA 929 LHR 10:05 am ORD 01:21 pm - 763 UA 938 ORD 09:07 pm LHR 11:05 am
35 Pellegrine : Word. Me too, love the 747s. I fondly remember seeing a couple of them usually at the end of C concourse for so long. Weird. Ugh. Boo.
36 Chgoflyer : My Eticket itinerary for PVG-ORD in early April still shows 747-400. What are my chances of having the new business class product on a 777? Any ideas?
37 BlueFlyer : Once you've decided to burn the cash on such a short hop and your options are a 767 or a 777, might as well send the plane that's the most expensive
38 757MDE : I am curious as to why it was a lost cause from the start. I don't have any numbers and I'm not really questioning or being in disagreement with what
39 Sparkingwave : Is UA resuming SYD-MEL away from NZ? When did this happen?
40 Boston92 : Nil.
41 OA412 : UA dropped AKL from their network several years ago.
42 UA772IAD : Interesting. I didn't realize HNL-NRT was a 747 route... it's typically operated by a 777, so I'm not totally surprised. Glad to see the 744 back at
43 Dreamflight767 : That's the way it always is. Never fails.
44 DeltaL1011man : IF talking about DL They will slot hold with 757s. The 757 can use the small runway and doesn't use the Widebody slots. This is how Delta has more fl
45 Mk777 : Maybe UA can try IAD-DEL in the winter months after suspending IAD-PEK. Winter time is the peak ravel season to India. I am sure they could fill the p
46 Avek00 : United would lose a boatload of money given 1) the extreme weakness of the USA-India market and 2) the significant startup costs and booking lag asso
47 Jfk777 : UA might be better trying IAD to Tel Aviv, EL AL doesn't fly to IAD. UA would do well with such a flight since they are big in large Jewish populatio
48 VictorKilo : Since the IAD-BRU flight itself is a 777, my guess is a IAD-BRU-LHR-XXX-LHR-BRU-IAD routing.
49 N770WD : Maybe a factor, but the primary reason is that to get 5th freedom rights the flight must be a continuation of an existing flight originating in your
50 Panamair : Uh, UA is suspending IAD-PEK, a flight it was awarded at the same time as DL for ATL-PVG...
51 Runway23 : Anybody know how these two have been doing?
52 MaverickM11 : There isn't that much local demand, and the connecting opportunities are weak; same goes for DFW, ATL, ORD, and PHL. Capital to capital sounds nice,
53 United1 : UA has been operating a SYD-MEL tag since they pulled out of AKL a few years ago, during the high season UA has even operated LAX-MEL non-stop. I thi
54 LAXdude1023 : Im not sure about IAD, but I know that in Texas (both DFW and IAH), the local markets to PVG are WAY larger than they are to PEK. Also it seems that
55 UA772IAD : The Washington area also has a pretty significant Jewish population itself, particularly in Montgomery County, MD's Bethesda, Chevy Chase and Potomac
56 Flyiguy : GVA is a strong preformer with passenger and cargo loads strong both directions. DME has been strong on Y class but F & J numbers as well as cargo nu
57 Gigneil : They certainly can. They still have those rights from before. Especially keeping ORD. But keep in mind, AMS is a huge trading post, as is Chicago. NS
58 Joeljack : It's not pulling up on United.com yet. It pulls up on Orbitz but only one way. The other way is via BMI. It's priced at north of $900 bucks for a 200
59 Gigneil : It may NOT change. They may really just want this for x-ORD-BRU passengers, and will price it unattractively to others. NS
60 MAH4546 : When the route was last operated in 2001/02, UA had no local traffic rights.
61 Gigneil : Did they not? Certainly my mistake... I thought they did. NS
62 Panamair : Pan Am, which sold UA those LHR rights, never had any local traffic rights on LHR-BRU or LHR-AMS, only on the German tag-ons (LHR-FRA/HAM/MUC).
63 Bralo20 : On some local sites in The Netherlands / Belgium the BRU/LHR flights are available to book... Both on the UA777 plane. A round trip BRU/LHR on the 777
64 OA412 : Yeah it would have been so much smarter for DL to lose money just to keep flights going.
65 DeltaL1011man : .......no they are moving it to NRT for 3-4 months. DL dropped ATL-PVG,SEA-PEK and 2x weekly DTW-PVG for a least a year. Would be nice if Delta wouln
66 BlueFlyer : I should have been more specific and state that I was talking about picking the ORD - LHR flight number, as opposed to any other existing flight numb
67 OA412 : So how exactly is UA able to operate NRT-PEK in lieu of IAD-PEK? Unless I'm mistaken, the route authority that UA holds for IAD-PEK is city specific s
68 Daron4000 : The flight will operate as UA 803/804 from IAD-PEK with a stopover in NRT. That is how they will still make it a city specific pair. UA has no dorman
69 MAH4546 : NRT stopover is allowed without penalty. The flight will become IAD-NRT-PEK.
70 DeltaL1011man : So? DL can starting using it anytime they want. But they dont. DL could do ATL-PVG via NRT but they dont. ? what are they? AA has 7, DL has 16, US ha
71 757MDE : This flight has been operating for some time now.
72 757MDE : Another thing that I wonder is, if IAD - NRT - PEK is going to be flight 803/804 what is going to happen to IAD - NRT - SIN? Is the NRT - SIN flight g
73 Pellegrine : I think IAD-DEL flight would be better than TLV. If UA's 777s can fly that far, I do not know. AFAIK, from other ex-UA 772 sales, they are only 640,0
74 LAXintl : Nothing is happening with the SIN tag. Its planned to operate daily. Flight numbers change quite regularly on such tags flights, and is rather meanin
75 757MDE : Thanks. Do you know where is it going to start? Flight 803 started from IAD, is this flight 875 starting from another city in the US (as in XXX - NRT
76 LAXintl : 875/876 is the SEA flight, however this does not necessarily even mean its the same plane. Thru flight numbers are simply a marketing exercises. For i
77 757MDE : Thanks again. I'm aware of what you say, I took flight 890 a month ago all the way from BKK to LAX and I had a plane change at NRT to another 744, I
78 LAXintl : DME is now loaded as daily again for the winter in United online schedules, but still 4x on a couple of the GDS. Sounds like a misscue on someones pa
79 Carpethead : No such rules exist. However, most carrier's unused slots do go to their country's carriers. For example, the most recent case a few years ago when D
80 Pellegrine : I TOTALLY did not even think of the following. I hope the 744s on this route are the new cabin, since there's no hope for a while on the 777s. And th
81 LAXintl : Well considering 21 of the 24 are ready today, and United has indicated that 744 IPTE conversions would be complete "by end of 2009", I say you are h
82 LAXintl : IAD-DME back down to 4x in GDS and even ua.com. IAD-DME ops Tu/Th/Fr/Sa
83 Naritaflyer : I think they are turning a blind eye given that there is not much demand for slots. My observation, and this is not scientific, Japanese people have
84 Mutu : Not sure that is true under Open Skies Agreement 2008? This gives US carriers "full access" to intra european traffic and was the main grumbling poin
85 Bobnwa : Yes but none of them are using those rights are they. A domestic flight within the US borders is quite a bit different that flights between two EU co
86 LAXintl : United just published some added peak Holiday Mexico flying. Daily Eff Dec17 - Jan5. UA764 LAX-MEX 2359-0534 A319 UA985 MEX-LAX 0725-0930 A319 UA671 D
87 UN_B732 : Does the 777 sit in BRU for that long? Seems like pretty poor utilisation. I wonder if they will offer routings like SFO-LHR-BRU or BRU-LHR-SFO, along
88 UALWN : No, it isn't. The EU is a single aviation market, just like the US is. And they have similar sizes.
89 Viscount724 : The difference is that flights between EU countries are still legally international flights, not domestic. For example, the US-EU Open Skies Agreemen
90 Bobnwa : If the EU is the same as the US, why does each country within the EU have a seat in the UN and its own Olympic team as well as its own parliament. Le
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