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TAM Axes SSA/REC-CDG And SSA-MIA  
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3681 posts, RR: 19
Posted (5 years 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4224 times:

TAM is suddenly cutting the one-weekly stopover flights from SSA, REC to CDG and from SSA to MIA. There seems to be no perspective for resumption.

JJ8092 GRU-SSA-MIA - last flight August 9th
JJ8093 MIA-SSA-GRU - last flight August 9th

JJ8068 GRU-SSA-CDG - last flight August 6th
JJ8069 CDG-SSA-GRU - last flight July 30th
JJ8069 CDG-REC*-GRU - single flight August 6th
*routed to REC, because of runway closure for maintenance at SSA

JJ8088 GRU-REC-CDG - last flight August 7th
JJ8089 CDG-REC-GRU - last flight August 9th

Eff. August 8th
JJ8098 GRU-CDG daily

Eff. August 10th
JJ8099 CDG-GRU daily

Eff. August 16th
JJ8092 GRU-MIA 7
JJ8093 MIA-GRU 7

All flights are operated by 332.

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32604 posts, RR: 72
Reply 1, posted (5 years 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4218 times:

There was talk of resuming the A320 on MIA-MAO-BEL, and then the 763 would route MIA-SSA-GIG daylight 4w and MIA-BSB-GIG 3w. Maybe this will be happening?

The MIA-SSA flight relied on resort contracts. Maybe AA has them now?



a.
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (5 years 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4110 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
The MIA-SSA flight relied on resort contracts. Maybe AA has them now?

My guess: that's what actually happened.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11416 posts, RR: 59
Reply 3, posted (5 years 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4083 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

CDG and SSA flights to CDG currently have very low loads, and with TP agreement, better to offer (if TP allows) LIS as a daily code-share. MIA was a surprise, but seems currently loads are not so good in terms of yields.

Quoting C010T3 (Thread starter):
TAM is suddenly cutting the one-weekly stopover flights from SSA, REC to CDG and from SSA to MIA. There seems to be no perspective for resumption.

That's a surprise but it's a sign that the new flights are producing damages on JJ and they are reacting, trying to consolidate.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
There was talk of resuming the A320 on MIA-MAO-BEL, and then the 763 would route MIA-SSA-GIG daylight 4w and MIA-BSB-GIG 3w. Maybe this will be happening?

Could be. One thing is highly expected is that they will have 1 B763 available. MIA-GIG is performing very well, but at this time, a new flight is not expected. However BSB-MIA would be a way to defend their position against DL new flight.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3681 posts, RR: 19
Reply 4, posted (5 years 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4082 times:



Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 2):
My guess: that's what actually happened.

Why would JJ axe CDG after losing contracts to MIA?


User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7402 posts, RR: 57
Reply 5, posted (5 years 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3984 times:

TAM is with Star Alliance ... CDG is SkyTeam homebase.

It would sound logical to me that TAM should rather try to feed a Star Alliance HUB and focus on it.


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3681 posts, RR: 19
Reply 6, posted (5 years 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3957 times:



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 5):
TAM is with Star Alliance ... CDG is SkyTeam homebase.

TAM isn't reducing capacity neither at MIA, nor at CDG with this move. They're basically cancelling the stopovers in Northeastern Brazil. TAM only flies to one sole Star hub and that is FRA.


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 7, posted (5 years 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3914 times:



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 5):
TAM is with Star Alliance ... CDG is SkyTeam homebase.

It would sound logical to me that TAM should rather try to feed a Star Alliance HUB and focus on it.



Quoting C010T3 (Reply 6):
TAM isn't reducing capacity neither at MIA, nor at CDG with this move.

Correct. SSA-CDG, SSA-MIA and REC-CDG originate in GRU. All flights will continue nonstop from GRU.

TAM capacity in CDG and MIA will remain unchanged. TAM operates 3 daily flights in CDG: GRU-CDG twice daily A330 (3-classes) and GIG-CDG daily A330 (3 classes), and 4 daily flights in MIA: GRU-MIA twice daily A330 (3-classes), GIG-MIA daily B763 (2 classes), and MAO-MIA daily B763 (2 classes).

Rgs,


User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1760 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (5 years 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3863 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 7):
MAO-MIA daily B763 (2 classes).

How good are JJ's connections to/from MAO to SSA/REC/FOR/BEL and even BSB? Perhaps that's why MIA-MAO does not perform better.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11416 posts, RR: 59
Reply 9, posted (5 years 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3782 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 5):
TAM is with Star Alliance ... CDG is SkyTeam homebase.

It would sound logical to me that TAM should rather try to feed a Star Alliance HUB and focus on it.

This might change when TAM officialy join *A. With more B77W to come in the future, i see TAM changing the 2 A332 changed into 1 B77W in the near future.

By the way and off-topic, finally the 77W will get the First Class seats. First LHR.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8204 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3687 times:



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 5):
It would sound logical to me that TAM should rather try to feed a Star Alliance HUB and focus on it.

TAM's strategy has be to stay away from *A hubs and rightfully so. There's a lot of capacity between GRU and *A hubs. TAM can get higher yields by being the only *A carrier on p-to-p routes like GRU-CDG/LHR/JFK/MIA.


User currently offlineThegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3686 times:

Latin America--US US-Latin America is coming off as saturated to me..especially in this global meltdown...


Our Returning Champion
User currently offlineRobffm2 From Germany, joined Dec 2006, 1115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3669 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 9):
By the way and off-topic, finally the 77W will get the First Class seats. First LHR.

That's certainly good news! But it's also about time, it took almost one year to get F installed in the brand new 77W.

And cutting out SSA and REC on the flights to CDG. I begin to wonder whether we do overestimate the potential of these two cities for flights to Europe. Certainly it would be nice to have direct connections, but right now it seems only charter airlines are able to sustain operation to them.


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3656 times:



Quoting Robffm2 (Reply 12):
And cutting out SSA and REC on the flights to CDG. I begin to wonder whether we do overestimate the potential of these two cities for flights to Europe

Northeast Brazil has services from TAP to Europe and this is enough, provided service is complemeted by charter flights eg Arke Fly AMS-NAT etc. No other legacy airline has demonstrated interest in serving Europe-Northeast Brazil.

The next wave of expansion Europe-Brazil will take place in GIG. Only after we could perhaps see legacy European carriers other than TAP starting flights to NE Brazil.

Rgs,


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3681 posts, RR: 19
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3650 times:



Quoting ThegreatRDU (Reply 11):
Latin America--US US-Latin America is coming off as saturated to me..especially in this global meltdown...

34 US-Brazil frequencies were allocated on the second semester last year. 14 were allocated this year so far, so I guess you can say that...


User currently offlineSSCAF001 From Switzerland, joined Aug 2007, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3611 times:



Quoting FlySSC (Reply 5):

Hello FlySSC and good afternoon from Geneva,
By the way, AF and G3 signed a code-share agreement that was supposed to begin in July '09.
However, no trace in the GDS (ex. Amadeus) and, on its web site, when booking a flight between CDG and SSA (as an example), TAM operating flights are shown for GRU-SSA segment.
Do you have some informations about this ?

Thanks a lot.

Frederic


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32604 posts, RR: 72
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3545 times:



Quoting ThegreatRDU (Reply 11):
Latin America--US US-Latin America is coming off as saturated to me..especially in this global meltdown...

LatAm-US is currently the only major U.S. international market that is faring well.



a.
User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8204 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3538 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 13):
Northeast Brazil has services from TAP to Europe and this is enough, provided service is complemeted by charter flights eg Arke Fly AMS-NAT etc. No other legacy airline has demonstrated interest in serving Europe-Northeast Brazil.

The biggest problem is that in order to operate succesfully to these cities it requires very close cooperation with the local businesses, because the volume is not there like it is at GRU and GIG. TP has been able to make it work for them because they have a long history in the region and a lot of partners on both ends of the Atlantic (i.e. tour operators, travel agencies, hotel chains, and other businesses and government institutions), that feed them passengers. Case in point, the above mentioned marketing campaing for Natal, recently done in Portugal. They didn't go to France, or Germany, or England. They went to Portugal and to TAP.


User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3531 times:



Quoting C010T3 (Reply 4):
Why would JJ axe CDG after losing contracts to MIA?

One thing has nothing to do with the other. If JJ lost contracts with MIA operators but JJ also axed CDG, ask JJ about CDG.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3681 posts, RR: 19
Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3451 times:



Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 18):
One thing has nothing to do with the other. If JJ lost contracts with MIA operators but JJ also axed CDG, ask JJ about CDG.

I wanted to imply with my question that there is no reason to believe that there is a correlation between the MIA-cut and a possible lost contract.


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3450 times:



Quoting Airbazar (Reply 17):
TP has been able to make it work for them because they have a long history in the region and a lot of partners on both ends of the Atlantic (i.e. tour operators, travel agencies, hotel chains, and other businesses and government institutions), that feed them passengers. Case in point, the above mentioned marketing campaing for Natal, recently done in Portugal. They didn't go to France, or Germany, or England. They went to Portugal and to TAP.

Plus LIS is an excelent hub for connections Brazil-Europe, TAP has low yielding configuration (perfect for NE Brazil), and there is no competition.

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 17):
Case in point, the above mentioned marketing campaing for Natal, recently done in Portugal. They didn't go to France, or Germany, or England. They went to Portugal and to TAP.

As a side notel, NAT focused so much in Portugal (see the multi-million campaign carried out in Portugal) that now it lost its position in the domestic market (as holiday destination in Brazil) to MCZ according to reports by media. I think NAT had to do this campaign to keep TAP operations.

Rgs,


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11416 posts, RR: 59
Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3373 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting ThegreatRDU (Reply 11):
Latin America--US US-Latin America is coming off as saturated to me..especially in this global meltdown...

It faces hard times during March-April-May, but recover very well June and now July is showing impressive results. I believe will be the first month to reach 300,000 passengers both ways.
Fares are also moving back to higher levels, and it's almost impossible to find deals Brazil-US for example, for less than US$ 1,000 (R/T Economy). Premium seats however are still with weak demand.

Quoting Robffm2 (Reply 12):
And cutting out SSA and REC on the flights to CDG. I begin to wonder whether we do overestimate the potential of these two cities for flights to Europe. Certainly it would be nice to have direct connections, but right now it seems only charter airlines are able to sustain operation to them.

This could be because of consolidation... i believe we might see TAM using the 77W to CDG instead of 2 planes every day. This would allow them to run more flights to LHR. This would improve their average load factor.

Quoting Robffm2 (Reply 12):
That's certainly good news! But it's also about time, it took almost one year to get F installed in the brand new 77W.

The first will be grounded in August, IIRC.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 13):

The next wave of expansion Europe-Brazil will take place in GIG. Only after we could perhaps see legacy European carriers other than TAP starting flights to NE Brazil.

Despite AZ that announced their plans to fly FCO-GIG and may be LH in the near future i can't see nothing new. VS can be a surprise with LHR-GIG but i can't see this happen before Summer 2010.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32604 posts, RR: 72
Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3328 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 21):
Despite AZ that announced their plans to fly FCO-GIG

They have "announced" GIG (and a few others) annually for about how many years now? Five?

AZ won't be landing at Rio anytime soon.



a.
User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2848 posts, RR: 30
Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3328 times:

These Northeastern Brazil markets still have yet to develop into cities on the international radar. For now, most foreigners continue to only know Brazil for Sao Paulo, Rio de Janeiro, and Brasilia.


Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3328 times:

I think in terms of GIG-Europe it could be realistic to expect BA and IB increasing frequencies, AF using a different aircraft with F product, TAM launching new routes such as GIG-FRA and/or GIG-LHR, TK as tag-on, not to mention LH GIG-FRA, and announcements will come in the wake of the World Cup. New bilaterals could also bring surprises such as KLM.

Rgs,

[Edited 2009-07-23 14:02:59]

25 C010T3 : I reallz think that now is the time for something in the GIG-Europe market. TP has made it possible by decreasing frequencies.
26 Hardiwv : The market is certainly there and at this stage offers much more opportunities than for example US-GIG, I have no doubt. GIG-Europe has not developed
27 LipeGIG : No, not five years but some months ago, but i don't expect to see AZ in the near future, also. Correct, both are almost the same size, about 850,000
28 MAH4546 : Hardly. A quick look at old posts shows that talks of returning go as far back as March 2005.
29 LipeGIG : Well, they requested slots to Infraero (airports) in 2008 but their request was denied... by the lack of check-in counters.
30 JJ8080 : I'm pretty sure that's what happened. One weekly flight is too poor schedule to most markets, mainly when there is another carrier on the route with
31 LipeGIG : Could be, but i don't expect any new JJ service right now. Even JNB will be postponed for sure. GIG-FRA in my view is something for 2010 and may repr
32 JJ8080 : IIRC, they will be receiving "a lot" of new widebodies this year and also in 2010... Either they will need to open new routes or they will need to le
33 LipeGIG : Yes, but there's some comments about JJ returning the 3 B763 in the end of this year. It might need 3 A332 to replace them.
34 JJ8080 : I see... Would be smart to padronize the fleet, IMO.... In fact, do you have info about widebody deliveries for them in 2009/2010?
35 LipeGIG : Some people told me they are on negotiations to take 2 additional A332 later this year. I'm waiting for their 2Q results to see their fleet projectio
36 Hardiwv : Apparently 2Q is not bad despite all negative trend in the industry. TAM is studying launching a dedicated SSA-REC-CDG flight in the second semester,
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