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Emirates Non Stop To OZ On 77W  
User currently offlineBritannia25 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2006, 73 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 8412 times:

Hi,

So I was just wondering why Emirates does not send the 777-300ER on non-stop flights to Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane? Judging by the flight time i'm sure this a/c can make it non-stop no problem? It flies to JFK from Dubai and also longer routes - HKG - JFK (CX) for example.

Cheers
BY

33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineVhqpa From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 1456 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8287 times:

IIRC EK do use the 77W nonstop to PER. I would guess the reason why the 77W's go to SYD/MEL/BNE via SIN/BKK Is Because EK have 5th Freedom rights on the SE Asia-SW Pacific routes. Considering these aircraft do a "milkrun" ie. DXB-BKK-SYD-CHC and are fed from the whole of Europe and Africa from the DXB end and have local travel rights for every single citypair in such a pair It makes sense to send a high capacity aircraft (773A/77W) via Asia. Don't forget that all the stations that get 1 stop via SE Asia to Dubai services also get nonstop services to Dubai as well.





Vhq.



"There you go ladies and gentleman we're through Mach 1 the speed of sound no bumps no bangs... CONCORDE"
User currently offlineBritannia25 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2006, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8146 times:

Thanks

I never thought about the 5th freedom rights and I guess that makes sense. Cheers for the info.

BY


User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5213 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 7990 times:

Actually I'm fairly certain it's more than that: both BNE and MEL have a 345 non-stop and a 77W via SIN. Bearing in mind most of the traffic is connecting in DXB rather than O&D SIN-Oz, the non-stop flights are in much higher demand than the stopping route, and it would therefore make more sense to put the additional capacity on this route. I was led to believe it had something to do with ETOPS, but admittedly I really do not understand how ETOPS works, so I may well of the mark...


Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8544 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 7978 times:
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I wonder if it has more to do with maxing the freight loads on the 777s but not taking full advantage of their range ?


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2597 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 7883 times:
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Quoting Vhqpa (Reply 1):
IIRC EK do use the 77W nonstop to PER

I'm quite sure EK uses 77L nonstop DXB-PER. I've seen it there.



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8544 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 7870 times:
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Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 4):
I wonder if it has more to do with maxing the freight loads on the 777s but not taking full advantage of their range ?

grr , too late to edit , what I meant was ...

" I wonder if it has more to do with maxing the freight loads on the 777s by not taking full advantage of their range ? "



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineCXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 3040 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7668 times:



Quoting CXB77L (Reply 5):
I'm quite sure EK uses 77L nonstop DXB-PER. I've seen it there.

They have used A340-300, A340-500, 777-200ER, 777-200LR and the 777-300ER on that route.

-CXfirst



From Norway, live in Australia
User currently offlineEDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7438 times:

Until recently EK operated an A345 non-stop between DXB and SYD both directions on their DXB-SYD-CHC service.

User currently offlineNickofatlanta From Australia, joined May 2000, 1485 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7401 times:



Quoting EDICHC (Reply 8):
Until recently EK operated an A345 non-stop between DXB and SYD both directions on their DXB-SYD-CHC service.

Indeed, they did. But, the question remains - which I am curious for an answer to as well - why EK still operates SYD-BKK-DXB, MEL-SIN-DXB and BNE-SIN-DXB when they have aircraft that operate the route nonstop at present as well?


User currently offlineEDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7352 times:



Quoting Nickofatlanta (Reply 9):
Indeed, they did. But, the question remains - which I am curious for an answer to as well - why EK still operates SYD-BKK-DXB, MEL-SIN-DXB and BNE-SIN-DXB when they have aircraft that operate the route nonstop at present as well?

OK see your point, I guess there must be various commercial reasons rather than purely logistical ones.


User currently offlineSQ_EK_freak From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2000, 1633 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7264 times:



Quoting Nickofatlanta (Reply 9):
Indeed, they did. But, the question remains - which I am curious for an answer to as well - why EK still operates SYD-BKK-DXB, MEL-SIN-DXB and BNE-SIN-DXB when they have aircraft that operate the route nonstop at present as well?

We pick up a lot of 5th freedom traffic along the way, and cargo does well on the route as well. Granted my understanding is that a lot of the 5th freedom traffic between Asia and Australia (especially our BKK ops) are pretty low yielding.



Keep Discovering
User currently offlineOjas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2964 posts, RR: 24
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7249 times:



Quoting SQ_EK_freak (Reply 11):
We pick up a lot of 5th freedom traffic along the way, and cargo does well on the route as well. Granted my understanding is that a lot of the 5th freedom traffic between Asia and Australia (especially our BKK ops) are pretty low yielding.

Emirates is raising fares ex- Australia by 7% itself is an indication that irrespective of the flight the yields are poor. But still they are adding a 3rd daily to SYD.

The dumping capacity theory still holds true.

http://business.theage.com.au/busine...quits-price-war-20090719-dpkl.html



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineSQ_EK_freak From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2000, 1633 posts, RR: 20
Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 7183 times:



Quoting Ojas (Reply 12):
Emirates is raising fares ex- Australia by 7% itself is an indication that irrespective of the flight the yields are poor.

Yup but demand is there, so hopefully this will help us out during these tough times. I heard through the grapevine that another OZ route might come online soon, but don't know what city. Rumor only at this point.



Keep Discovering
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5213 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6271 times:

Ojas, how did you reach that conclusion?
If EK were 'dumping capacity', surely they would be DECREASING fairs by 7% in order to fill the aircraft. As it is they are doing completely the opposite, thus suggesting that demand is in fact high.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineMoek2000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6130 times:



Quoting Nickofatlanta (Reply 9):
Indeed, they did. But, the question remains - which I am curious for an answer to as well - why EK still operates SYD-BKK-DXB, MEL-SIN-DXB and BNE-SIN-DXB when they have aircraft that operate the route nonstop at present as well?

SYD-BKK and MEL-SIN are high density routes and competes with SQ and QF. I flew SYD-CHC-SYD and MEL-SIN on EK last winter, I was very pleased! It also made for a good story when I told friends that I flew Emirates from Australia to New Zealand...Response: "You can do that!!?"


User currently offlineSmi0006 From Australia, joined Jan 2008, 1525 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days ago) and read 5927 times:



Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 3):
both BNE and MEL have a 345 non-stop and a 77W via SIN

In MEL infact we have two A345 non stoppers and then one service via SIN with I think its a 772ER but not sure, don't think we get the 77W here except for the occasional sub


User currently offlineAlangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5287 times:

I think the reason is that DXB-Australia East Coast is just a bit too far for best possible payload range for the 77W. This may have been discussed in an EK thread or EY or QR. Has the 77W reached its max weight - is there any chance of an improvement. It may not bother EK, but the 77L would be a good aircraft if First and Business Class loadings are going well - the 77W gives a better yield for a range of air fares.

It is good that EK is looking at another Australian ports. Some people said Adelaide was going to get service, but the slow delivery of A380s meant that it was hard to release other aircraft to start ADL.

If ADL does get the nod - will the runway at ADL allow unrestricted departures to DXB by A345s? If they start one stop flights from ADL to DXB, you might note that ADL has flights to SIN by QF and SQ, but no non stops to BKK. If EK started making noises about start ADL, I wonder if JQ would start doing ADL to BKK, just to try and annoy EK?

If EK did think about ADL, whether they still have enough Trans Tasman frequencies available to extend ADL flights on to NZ.


User currently offlineDirectorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1652 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5133 times:



Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 17):
If ADL does get the nod - will the runway at ADL allow unrestricted departures to DXB by A345s? If they start one stop flights from ADL to DXB, you might note that ADL has flights to SIN by QF and SQ, but no non stops to BKK. If EK started making noises about start ADL, I wonder if JQ would start doing ADL to BKK, just to try and annoy EK?

If EK did think about ADL, whether they still have enough Trans Tasman frequencies available to extend ADL flights on to NZ.

Hmm....
Perhaps DXB-BKK-ADL-WLG ?


User currently offlineAerokiwi From New Zealand, joined Jul 2000, 2684 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (5 years 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5132 times:



Quoting SQ_EK_freak (Reply 13):
Yup but demand is there, so hopefully this will help us out during these tough times. I heard through the grapevine that another OZ route might come online soon, but don't know what city. Rumor only at this point.

Demand is there at the current fares - at +7%, it may very well evaporate. And doing so in this environment is a pretty risky move - does EK rate itself that highly? Perhaps profitability across other parts of their network has declined to the point where they need to milk some of the stronger areas.

With Etihad and Qatar on the route, along with a lot of high quality ASian carriers, you gotta wonder what the rationale for this move is.


User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5213 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4817 times:

If EK were to start another flight to Australia, it must surely be to ADL.

In theory: CNS, OOL, CBR, Darwin and Hobart are also 'international' airports (a slightly spurious claim in some circumstances) although I don't think any of them would work out for EK:

1) OOL - Primarily leasure destination with very light loads up front, might also imapct on the performance of their flights to BNE.

2) CNS - Similarly, almost exclusively a leasure destination. Given the number of European tourists who go to Cairns each year I'm sure they could fill Y, but yields will be very low, therefore highly unlikely EK will ever fly there.

3) Darwin, CBR, and Hobart: The markets are simply to small...

If EK were to lauch flights to ADL one-stop (via. BKK for example) would they use the 332 or 772?



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineAlangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (5 years 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4685 times:

My prediction is that Adelaide might get three weekly non stops with an A345 to DXB, and three weekly one stops in BKK with either A332 or 772. The non stops would leave ADL at about 1500 to arrive in DXB to connect with 0200 flights to UK cities. The flights through BKK would be timed to arrive in DXB at 0600 to connect with 0800 flights around the Middle East region. If EK does have any Trans Tasman frequencies still available, the widebody would be attractive against the AirNZ A320 service. ADL-CHC is a city pair that is not done by anyone at the moment.

User currently offlineThegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 week 1 day ago) and read 4565 times:



Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 21):
My prediction is that Adelaide might get three weekly non stops with an A345 to DXB

That's a possibility, but I seriously doubt extending to NZ would work. The A320 flight AKL-ADL is only 5x weekly. There's just no demand.

If freight flows are strong, they might be more interested in going via SIN with an A333, or (unlikely) BKK.


User currently offlineSmi0006 From Australia, joined Jan 2008, 1525 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 4501 times:

EK to ADL would be great, how is their A345 fleet looking I take it one is still out for repairs, do they have the frames to add a new route with one? I'm not sure ADL would have the F demand would it perhaps a two class aircraft via Asia?

I hope once the new termial is complete and maybe 5 or so years time we see EK in CBR lol Canberra international Airport really needs one scheduled international service to earn it that title lol


User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5213 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (5 years 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 4469 times:

I heard a while back that CBR was seeking a flight to SIN. If SQ or QF aren't interested then EK could potentially be an option with a 332 DBX-SIN-CBR. This would mean that they satisfy the desire for a SIN-CBR while also offering a flight to DXB to connect to their European network. Still that's probably a few years away. Arguably, since there a no flights from CBR-AKL they could tag this route onto the end, although this would be even less likely: if NZ and DJ don't think they could make a narrow body work on the route what chance is there of ever filling an A330...


Worked Hard, Flew Right
25 Alangirvan : If EK starts to use A380s to MEL, that would release a couple of A345s for ADL. When the A380s start to arrive in the EK fleet that will give lots of
26 Fly2CHC : I think it does. Late last year when there were protesters at BKK airport, their daily 77W DXB-BKK-SYD-AKL cut out BKK and operated non-stop DXB-SYD
27 ZK-NBT : That was more because it can do it but not probably with the most it could carry, I think they may have used some of the newer 77Ws in the fleet at t
28 DavidByrne : I'd be interested to know what EK's rights to New Zealand are. I had thought that they were pretty wide open, but I may be mistaken.
29 Cartoonranger : Here are all the scheduled Oz routes and equipment: Sydney: DXB/SYD/AKL = A388 DXB/BKK/SYD/CHC = 77W Melbourne: DXB/MEL = A345 DXB/MEL/AKL = A345 DXB/
30 Alangirvan : I think EK may have reached the limit for the number of Trans Tasman flights they could operate - I was just wondering if anyone knew for sure. If EK
31 Kiwiandrew : I do not claim to be sure ( sorry ) but my understanding was that there is no limitation as to how many flights EK can operate to New Zealand , howev
32 DavidByrne : That certainly tallies with my underdstanding. I didn't think New Zealand placed any restriction on EK, but Australia may well be a difernt matter.
33 Smi0006 : I think I remember reading something that there is a limit for EK only from MEL, BNE and SYD, all other ports are alright, I vaguely recall there was
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