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AA The Next To Raise Bag Fees  
User currently offlineLonghornmaniac From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 3278 posts, RR: 45
Posted (5 years 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4714 times:

Didn't see this posted. Not surprising, though.

$15 to $20 for the first bag

$25 to $30 for the second

AA Press Release

Cheers,
Cameron

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32613 posts, RR: 72
Reply 1, posted (5 years 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4699 times:

Though, unlike others, this appears to be regardless of advance-purchase or not.

Another stupid move by AA, but whatever. People are used to it, elites don't have to pay it, and life goes on.



a.
User currently offlinePanam330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2669 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (5 years 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4675 times:

How ridiculous. I'm glad I barely have to fly anymore. Sometimes I wish WN would open SYR so I wouldn't have to get nickel and dimed to death every time I want to go to/from school.

User currently offlineCrosswinds21 From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 698 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4610 times:

This isn't really a surprise. These fees typically only work if someone starts one and everyone else matches. AA was the first to charge for a checked bag and everyone (expect WN) matched. Now, since this increase was initiaed by someone else, AA pretty much "has" to match it too.

FWIW, AA (I think) doesn't have its system set up to where customers can pre pay online so that's why isn't exactly a 1 for 1 match with the other airlines.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3722 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (5 years 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4530 times:



Quoting Panam330 (Reply 2):
How ridiculous. I'm glad I barely have to fly anymore. Sometimes I wish WN would open SYR so I wouldn't have to get nickel and dimed to death every time I want to go to/from school.

B6 flies to/from SYR, and last time I checked, they don't charge for the first checked bag.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13517 posts, RR: 62
Reply 5, posted (5 years 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4437 times:
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Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
Another stupid move by AA

 redflag 

Customers have shown they'll pay these fees, they won't book away from fee-charging carriers, and they're not willing to accept higher fares in exchange for free checked bags.

So why is it stupid?



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinePanam330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2669 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (5 years 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4425 times:



Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 4):
B6 flies to/from SYR, and last time I checked, they don't charge for the first checked bag.

Yup, they do fly to SYR, but their non-stop is inconveniently timed for me. Their one-stops are through JFK, which I try to avoid at all costs.


User currently offlineCrosswinds21 From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 698 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4373 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
Though, unlike others, this appears to be regardless of advance-purchase or not.

Another stupid move by AA, but whatever. People are used to it, elites don't have to pay it, and life goes on.



Quoting Panam330 (Reply 2):
How ridiculous. I'm glad I barely have to fly anymore. Sometimes I wish WN would open SYR so I wouldn't have to get nickel and dimed to death every time I want to go to/from school.

I know I might get flamed for this, but I completely disagree with anyone who says that such fees are stupid. Everyone knows that the major carriers are bleeding cash and they can't control ticket prices to cover the cost of doing business and they can't control their labor costs for the most part as well. To all the people that take this stance, what would you do if you were management and you needed to increase revenue? Again, consider the following facts:

1. It costs $X to fly someone somwhere. However, airlines usually can't even charge the $X.
2. It's been shows that such fees (which, by the way, are only manadatory if someone is using the actual services) generally a LOT of extra revenue, thereby allowing airlines to partially offset the difference between the costs of flying someone and what people pay for tickets.
3. It's been shown that such fees have not driven away customers.
4. You're management; you need to find a way to either decrease your costs or increase your revenue - both of which can be almost impossible to do. What do you do?

People might say something like "well, they can start by providing better customer service and they'll get more business that way" but we all know that predominantly, the one and only thing that drives people to buy tickets with a specific company is the overall price of the ticket. And the price can't typically be raised (that's why we're still seeing the ridiculous $99 one way transcon fares). So again, to all who criticize fees and a l carte pricing, what do you suggest as an alternative?


User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1882 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (5 years 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4356 times:

This doesn't surprise me one bit...US is always the first of the majors to create most of the stupid new fees and AA is always right behind them to implement them.

Quoting Crosswinds21 (Reply 7):
So again, to all who criticize fees and a la carte pricing, what do you suggest as an alternative?

How about management that knew what the hell they were doing in the first place instead of the massive ineptitude they created that got them into this predicament in the first place? I have ZERO sympathy for these airlines that see the need to implement these pathetic fees because they were foolish with their management.


User currently offlineFxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7191 posts, RR: 86
Reply 9, posted (5 years 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4326 times:
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I'm EPLT at AA and haven't checked a bag on a domestic jump in years. This is a stupid move for AA. In the end, it'll hurt them more than help the bottom line. I guess getting rid of the pillows and blankets wasn't enough. What a raw deal...

 crying 


User currently offlineMcdu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1448 posts, RR: 17
Reply 10, posted (5 years 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4287 times:



Quoting Panam330 (Reply 2):
How ridiculous. I'm glad I barely have to fly anymore. Sometimes I wish WN would open SYR so I wouldn't have to get nickel and dimed to death every time I want to go to/from school.

have you read this??? Southwest is struggling like all the other carriers and is considering instituting baggage fees.

http://www.bizjournals.com/albuquerque/stories/2009/07/20/daily47.html


User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1882 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (5 years 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4267 times:



Quoting Mcdu (Reply 10):

have you read this??? Southwest is struggling like all the other carriers and is considering instituting baggage fees.

Have you read it? (apparently not)
Gary said, "We’ve got to be open minded to anything quite frankly." That means he's keeping ALL the options open...but doesn't even remotely imply that they're gonna institute any baggage fees. Just like with other businesses, he's keeping an open mind.
People are reading too much into the entire thing.


User currently offlineMcdu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1448 posts, RR: 17
Reply 12, posted (5 years 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4255 times:

He did rule them out. That in itself is generally mgmnt speak for a high possibility they will actually happen. The problem swa has is they have used hedges and flying to smaller cities to the max potential. They have mocked the fees of the other carriers and now that the business plan has to be amended they have put themselves on an island.

AA and the others can hang fees and people will gruff and pay. When swa does start charging the bloom will be off the lily.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32613 posts, RR: 72
Reply 13, posted (5 years 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4243 times:

Quoting Fxramper (Reply 9):
I'm EPLT at AA and haven't checked a bag on a domestic jump in years. This is a stupid move for AA. In the end, it'll hurt them more than help the bottom line. I guess getting rid of the pillows and blankets wasn't enough. What a raw deal...

It's annoying and stupid, but no, its not going to hurt the bottom line. AA has done a good job keeping perks for the elite flyers. For example, on my frequent LAX-SFO trips, there are always pillows and blankets in the bulkheads and exit rows occupied by Elite members, and while I don't believe this is "official" policy, wine or beer is given free with a meal if flying Y and elite.

[Edited 2009-07-24 17:47:15]


a.
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25008 posts, RR: 85
Reply 14, posted (5 years 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4243 times:
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Quoting Crosswinds21 (Reply 7):
1. It costs $X to fly someone somwhere. However, airlines usually can't even charge the $X.

So if the route can't be profitable, why fly it?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1882 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (5 years 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4192 times:



Quoting Mcdu (Reply 12):
The problem swa has is they have used hedges and flying to smaller cities to the max potential. They have mocked the fees of the other carriers and now that the business plan has to be amended they have put themselves on an island.

Aaah, there we are...you're one of those who mocks WN because they were smart enough to hedge...while companies like AA are having to charge these pathetic fees to hedge their bottom line because they weren't smart enough to hedge.
And WN's been on an island since their first day of operations...so this position you want to put them in is nothing new.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32613 posts, RR: 72
Reply 16, posted (5 years 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4132 times:



Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 15):
Aaah, there we are...you're one of those who mocks WN because they were smart enough to hedge...while companies like AA are having to charge these pathetic fees to hedge their bottom line because they weren't smart enough to hedge.

Southwest is well on their way to adding these "pathetic fees." They'll be added within 18 months, I don't doubt it. I think the one thing WN will keep is no first-bag fee, like JetBlue.



a.
User currently offlinePocho From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 89 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3994 times:

People will book a flight based on the cheapest airfare. If one airline charges $99, and another charges $98, people will book the $98 fare even if it ends up costing more with the baggage fees. Some people just don't even think about these extra fees when booking flights.

User currently offlineCkfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5179 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (5 years 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3901 times:

What would be interesting is if a corporation with a contract with an airline says that they will renew the contract, but that the carrier has to waive the checked bag fee for every one of the corporation's employees, regardless of elite status or fare paid.

My wife is supposed to fly UA, but she can book AA if it's cheaper. She had gold status on AA, so if UA is $20 cheaper, it winds up being $20 more expensive after the bag fees (1 bag each way).

Someone could argue that AA, UA, or anyone else can match WN or B6 on fares, but by the time you add bag fees, those tickets are costing $30 to $40 more. If a large company buys 10,000 tickets over the course of a year, and half of those tickets include a bag fee, that's $150,000 to $200,000 extra that the corporate client is paying.

If that client takes its business to WN, assuming an average of $250 a ticket, that's $2,500,000 in lost business for the airline.


User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1882 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (5 years 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3879 times:



Quoting Ckfred (Reply 18):
What would be interesting is if a corporation with a contract with an airline says that they will renew the contract, but that the carrier has to waive the checked bag fee for every one of the corporation's employees, regardless of elite status or fare paid.

My wife is supposed to fly UA, but she can book AA if it's cheaper. She had gold status on AA, so if UA is $20 cheaper, it winds up being $20 more expensive after the bag fees (1 bag each way).

Someone could argue that AA, UA, or anyone else can match WN or B6 on fares, but by the time you add bag fees, those tickets are costing $30 to $40 more. If a large company buys 10,000 tickets over the course of a year, and half of those tickets include a bag fee, that's $150,000 to $200,000 extra that the corporate client is paying.

If that client takes its business to WN, assuming an average of $250 a ticket, that's $2,500,000 in lost business for the airline.

That makes perfect sense...which is apparently a problem here. You're not supposed to make sense. You're supposed to say that this is perfectly reasonable because of the following broken record fallacies seen repeatedly in threads like this:
a. the true cost of a ticket is seriously deflated nowadays...the airlines are being charitable in flying you across the country for so cheap and you should give back to them by paying more in add-on fees
b. it's not the airlines' fault that they mismanaged and ran their corporations into Chapter 11 (or close to...or into Ch 11 numerous times), so we should pay whatever we can to make sure they don't have to go back or else someone might go unemployed for a bit and we'll all be labeled heartless bastards if we dare to speak out against that airline
c. nickel and dime fees are now a way of life...and we should just shut up and get used to it...because we don't want to rock the boat

Thinking just doesn't get you anywhere anymore.


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13517 posts, RR: 62
Reply 20, posted (5 years 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3815 times:
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Quoting Fxramper (Reply 9):
I'm EPLT at AA and haven't checked a bag on a domestic jump in years. This is a stupid move for AA.

Yet many other top-tier FFs who don't check bags have said, "Why should my higher-than-average fares subsidize the free bags of the family of 5 going to Walley World?"

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 11):
Gary said, "We’ve got to be open minded to anything quite frankly." That means he's keeping ALL the options open...but doesn't even remotely imply that they're gonna institute any baggage fees.

Fact of the matter is that WN will eventually charge baggage fees, as they'll likely bring in anywhere from $250 to $350M annually - revenue increases they simply won't realize by raising fares, as fare increase stifle demand, particularly for WN.

If Gary won't, the BOD will eventually make him do it because LUV shareholders will eventually demand it.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineMcdu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1448 posts, RR: 17
Reply 21, posted (5 years 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3743 times:



Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 19):
b. it's not the airlines' fault that they mismanaged and ran their corporations into Chapter 11 (or close to...or into Ch 11 numerous times), so we should pay whatever we can to make sure they don't have to go back or else someone might go unemployed for a bit and we'll all be labeled heartless bastards if we dare to speak out against that airline
c. nickel and dime fees are now a way of life...and we should just shut up and get used to it...because we don't want to rock the boat

Thinking just doesn't get you anywhere anymore.

First of all an airline is a corporation and a corporation is devised to create profits. Airlines are not charitable organizations and in the case of baggage fees the airlines are responding to the changing marketplace.

AA/UA/US/DL/CO are doing what it takes to create a system that provides enough money to run the corporation. WN on the other hand has had some beneficial moves by their previous management but they have played their hand. The market has changed, WN has a mature workforce with some of the highest cost of all the carriers. They have traditionally had low LF's and operated at perimeter airports. Now that the hedging has begun to run its course they are facing some issues on the horizon that no longer separate their business plan from the other carriers. With the recent lowering of their debt to near junk status you can see that they are no longer infallible in the eyes of wall st.

Again what will hurt them worse than the other carriers is how they have hid behind the veil of difference all these years. I want to see the first major carrier produce an add welcoming WN to the fee club when they implement them. If I had my guess AA may have the cajones to create such an ad.


User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1882 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (5 years 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3644 times:



Quoting Mcdu (Reply 21):
AA/UA/US/DL/CO are doing what it takes to create a system that provides enough money to run the corporation. WN on the other hand has had some beneficial moves by their previous management but they have played their hand. The market has changed, WN has a mature workforce with some of the highest cost of all the carriers. They have traditionally had low LF's and operated at perimeter airports. Now that the hedging has begun to run its course they are facing some issues on the horizon that no longer separate their business plan from the other carriers.

So they've decided to "provide enough money to run the corporation" by stomping on the collective balls of their paying passengers.

And give me a break about WN and the hedging thing. That's the only leg the WN bashers ever have to stand on anymore...and since WN just re-upped the majority of their hedges for the next few years, the hedges aren't going away.


User currently offlinePagoFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 85 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3493 times:

You just know that pay toilets are next!

User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1882 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (5 years 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3456 times:



Quoting PagoFlyer (Reply 23):
You just know that pay toilets are next!

The sad thing is that it's gonna take a few of these majors going under for the rest of the industry to realize how ridiculous all this fee crap has become.
Oops, I'm not supposed to say that...cause that means I want people to lose their jobs.


25 Longhornmaniac : So hostile...the bottom line is the average "joe public" flyer doesn't compute everything together when they buy a ticket. If they see AA at $245 on
26 BalZ18 : I agree all the other major american airlines have already done it and suddenly AA does it so it makes them stupid?
27 AJMIA : Today at the airport I tried to help a woman who had booked a ticket MIA - ATL (overnight stop) - DFW - BUR. The whole trip was going to take her ove
28 TSS : Upon which routes has AA gotten rid of pillows and blankets? They're certainly still very much in evidence on DFW-RNO and back... in fact, the last c
29 JFernandez : Websites are very clear how long the flights will take. No matter what, people won't read everything.
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