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IAH-GIG Already Upgraded To 764 Indefinitely?  
User currently offlineSt530 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 138 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4335 times:

Hey all, just checking on Continental.com, it looks like IAH-GIG, which launches Aug. 1/2 with a 762, is upgraded to 764 after just a few days (looks to be 764 indefinitely as from Aug. 5). Some of you correctly predicted this would happen (http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/4416966), but not this fast! Bookings probably heavy in J, which justified the quick switch. Good job CO!

48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11421 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4320 times:
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Quoting St530 (Thread starter):
Hey all, just checking on Continental.com, it looks like IAH-GIG, which launches Aug. 1/2 with a 762, is upgraded to 764 after just a few days (looks to be 764 indefinitely as from Aug. 5). Some of you correctly predicted this would happen (http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/4416966), but not this fast! Bookings probably heavy in J, which justified the quick switch. Good job CO

Well, it just confirm my expectation as IAH-GIG is an oil route connecting the two largest energy markets in the Americas. The first flights were almost full a month before and for sure business demand would fill the larger 764 business cabin.
This just proves how GIG is under served in terms of flights to the USA.

Next step for CO to consolidate it's presence in Rio (they have the best chances together with JJ) is to fight for EWR-GIG next year.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4277 times:

This is great news for GIG. In fact, CO switched aircraft from GRU and GIG. IAH-GRU will be operated with B762 while IAH-GIG with B764, while EWR-GRU will continue with B762.

Rgs,


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11421 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4262 times:
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So far seems that IAH-GIG will be back to 762 by Dec 18.
Considering that in Dec 19 the leisure demand took some space from business, we might see a change in the near future.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32627 posts, RR: 72
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4247 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 1):

This just proves how GIG is under served in terms of flights to the USA.

Yup. So does UA's cancellation of IAD-GIG. Definitely under-served.

It proves one thing: the strength of the IAH-GIG market and nothing else.



a.
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11421 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4223 times:
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Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
Yup. So does UA's cancellation of IAD-GIG. Definitely under-served.

Cancellation ?
UA is far from focus on Latin America, is far from focus on Rio. They have 7 frequencies that have been neglect to be used on a year basis.
They just realize probably after lose 20 points of load (as well as probably yields) from 2007 to 2008 that they can't compete on equal basis with all other airlines that fly on a year round basis to GIG.
While UA neglects the potential, TAM consolidates 11 weekly flights and now CO got their share.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
It proves one thing: the strength of the IAH-GIG market and nothing else

If CO only sells 100% O&D IAH-GIG, you could be right, but that's not the case. They need passengers from other markets.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4385 posts, RR: 19
Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4118 times:

Well we had EWR-GIG before and p*ssed it away. A real shame, full flights and a great trip for us.


The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlineAF086 From France, joined Jan 2007, 1059 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4118 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 3):
Considering that in Dec 19 the leisure demand took some space from business, we might see a change in the near future.

Agreed. Given these strong bookings I can see this flight getting the 764 all year long.

Another question: how is CO's 772 availability? Would it be worth, in the future of course and if the bookings remain strong, to change from the 764 to the 772?



Please insert a "smart" joke here.
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11421 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 4020 times:
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Quoting Max Q (Reply 6):
Well we had EWR-GIG before and p*ssed it away. A real shame, full flights and a great trip for us.

And it was before the oil boom in Rio! But the flight was dropped for the same reason UA nowadays is not offering the non-stop IAD-GIG for the regular IATA winter season: after 9/11 several airlines face the need to consolidate operations to fill planes. It's a shame that this flight has never been resumed.
Just need to say that Rio-NYC is a market 3x bigger than IAH. If IAH could perform so well, i have no doubts about the success, today, of a EWR-GIG with 762. Rio-NYC can sustain 2 daily flights in my view.
CO B762 fits very well this market.

Quoting AF086 (Reply 7):
Another question: how is CO's 772 availability? Would it be worth, in the future of course and if the bookings remain strong, to change from the 764 to the 772?

It's not a big challenge. The 777 offers 15 more C than the 764 and 34Y. I don't know how busy they are, but i know CO has 20 frames, and IIRC 8 to be received in the future.
But should take some time. Now it's time to expect the others reaction.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21480 posts, RR: 60
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 4001 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 8):
It's not a big challenge. The 777 offers 15 more C than the 764 and 34Y. I don't know how busy they are, but i know CO has 20 frames, and IIRC 8 to be received in the future.

But it's probably not worth it to use a 777 on this route. The 764 isn't that much smaller, and the 777s are better used on longer routes or routes with more cargo demand.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineDanVS From Brazil, joined Jul 2009, 254 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 3983 times:

I'm suprised that CO intends to downgrade IAH-GRU to a 762. It will be the only USA airline to have a "small" heavy jet flying from GRU to its main hub.
AA: 777 to DFW and MIA
UA: 777 to IAD, 763 to ORD
DL: 764 to ATL

Delta, for instance, also has a daily ATL-GIG flight and yet it uses a 764 in ATL-GRU.
So... Isn't IAH used as a hub to other destinations in the USA/Canada just like ATL, DFW, ORD or IAD? Why is there less demand for CO specifically?


User currently offlineAF086 From France, joined Jan 2007, 1059 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 3943 times:



Quoting DanVS (Reply 10):
Why is there less demand for CO specifically?

CO's IAH hub is quite large. The difference is that the IAH-GIG O&D is larger than the IAH-GRU. According to CO, the IAH-GIG market has around 30540 pax per year and the IAH-GRU one 18200 these numbers alone justify the larget aircraft going to GIG instead of GRU.

This higher O&D to Rio is justified by the large traffic generated by the energy sector which is very strong both at Rio and Houston. Also at GIG, CO faces a smaller compatition to the US than it does at GRU.



Please insert a "smart" joke here.
User currently offlineDanVS From Brazil, joined Jul 2009, 254 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 3915 times:

I'm not trying to compare IAH-GRU with IAH-GIG.

I am just wondering why CO will offer less seats to its main hub from GRU than other USA airlines.
If CO has competition flying GRU-USA, so does AA, DL and UA.


User currently offlineAF086 From France, joined Jan 2007, 1059 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 3885 times:

Quoting DanVS (Reply 12):
I'm not trying to compare IAH-GRU with IAH-GIG.

Me too. I'm just explaining why GIG will be upgraded and GRU (so far) won't be.

Quoting DanVS (Reply 12):
I am just wondering why CO will offer less seats to its main hub from GRU than other USA airlines.

CO doesn't have a plane between the 762 and the 764 so perhaps IAH-GRU and EWR-GRU don't justify the 764 yet.

AA serves GRU with 772s and 763s, DL with the 764 (which isn't year round, it's replaced by the 763 off-season) and the 763 and UA with the 763 and the 772 but remember that the 772 is shared with GIG.

My bet is that CO offers more seats to GRU than UA does but is still behind DL and very far behind AA (which has several daily flights to GRU) and JJ.

Quoting DanVS (Reply 12):
If CO has competition flying GRU-USA, so does AA, DL and UA.

True. My point is that the competition they face at GRU is much more fierce than the one they face at GIG.

[Edited 2009-07-25 20:16:05]


Please insert a "smart" joke here.
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11421 posts, RR: 58
Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 3836 times:
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Quoting DanVS (Reply 10):
So... Isn't IAH used as a hub to other destinations in the USA/Canada
just like ATL, DFW, ORD or IAD? Why is there less demand for CO specifically?

Because of oil industry. Just this.
It's not about compare hubs among them.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21480 posts, RR: 60
Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 3836 times:



Quoting DanVS (Reply 10):
Delta, for instance, also has a daily ATL-GIG flight and yet it uses a 764 in ATL-GRU.

Delta is a much larger airline...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7514 posts, RR: 24
Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 3793 times:



Quoting DanVS (Reply 10):
So... Isn't IAH used as a hub to other destinations in the USA/Canada just like ATL, DFW, ORD or IAD? Why is there less demand for CO specifically?

Well if were talking local, DFW has a larger local market to GRU than IAH. IAH's O&D to that part of Brazil is definately more geared toward GIG.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 3743 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 5):
UA is far from focus on Latin America

UA remains committed to Brazil and continues to operate ORD-GRU and IAD-GRU daily and year-around.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 3):
So far seems that IAH-GIG will be back to 762 by Dec 18.

Which is when the B764 reverts back to GRU.

Quoting DanVS (Reply 10):
I'm suprised that CO intends to downgrade IAH-GRU to a 762. It will be the only USA airline to have a "small" heavy jet flying from GRU to its main hub.
AA: 777 to DFW and MIA
UA: 777 to IAD, 763 to ORD
DL: 764 to ATL

You have to remember that CO operates two daily flights in GRU: IAH and EWR.

Rgs,


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3686 posts, RR: 19
Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 3691 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 17):
Which is when the B764 reverts back to GRU.

Where are seeing that? On continental.com, we have the 762 from Dec.18th until January 4th at GIG, but there is no change at GRU. It remains 762 all the way.


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 19, posted (5 years 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 3683 times:



Quoting C010T3 (Reply 18):
Where are seeing that? On continental.com, we have the 762 from Dec.18th until January 4th at GIG, but there is no change at GRU. It remains 762 all the way.

You are right. Not good for the Brazilian market. Lets hope CO reverts the decision and reinstates the B764 in GIG or GRU during the December high season.

Quoting AF086 (Reply 11):
The difference is that the IAH-GIG O&D is larger than the IAH-GRU

Correct.

Rgs,


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3686 posts, RR: 19
Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 3629 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 19):
You are right. Not good for the Brazilian market. Lets hope CO reverts the decision and reinstates the B764 in GIG or GRU during the December high season.

I think that CO is just adapting to the fact that UA is flying IAD-GIG exactly in that period.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16829 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (5 years 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 3542 times:



Quoting Max Q (Reply 6):
Well we had EWR-GIG before

EWR-GRU
EWR-GIG-CNF
EWR-SCL



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11421 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 3277 times:
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Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 17):
UA remains committed to Brazil .

Hardi, i'm sorry to say, but i strongly disagree with you and any one trying to say that UA remains committed to Brazil. Two flights where they have the chance to run 3, while all other players are looking to expand, it's not commitment. UA have no eyes to Brazil or Latin America and just need to see their results.

Share of revenue in Latin America 2Q 2009:

UA ....

International Total : 1,156 billion
Pacific ... 518 million
Atlantic... 563 million
Latin America.................72 million
(less than 4.5% with also the bigger decrease in revenue quarter against quarter... 45.4%)


CO....

International Total : 1.133 billion
Pacific: 211 million
Atlantic: 577 million
Latin America................ 345 million
(just 30% of total int'l revenue, with a decrease of 20.8%)

Source: CO and UA investor relations, results for 2Q 2009.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 20):
I think that CO is just adapting to the fact that UA is flying IAD-GIG exactly in that period.

Good point, agree with you.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 21):
EWR-GIG-CNF

Would be a very good route if it allows connections from IAH-GIG. Or also, EWR-GIG-POA. In my view the best choice considering AA position in CNF with a non-stop.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineDanVS From Brazil, joined Jul 2009, 254 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 3127 times:

Quoting AF086 (Reply 13):
My bet is that CO offers more seats to GRU than UA does

Actually, with this change, CO will offer less seats daily from GRU:
CO: 298Y, 50C, 0F (GRU-IAH + GRU-EWR)
UA: 349Y, 71C, 16F (GRU-IAD + GRU-ORD)

Quoting AF086 (Reply 13):
CO doesn't have a plane between the 762 and the 764

Correct.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 14):
Because of oil industry. Just this.
It's not about compare hubs among them.



Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 16):
Well if were talking local, DFW has a larger local market to GRU than IAH. IAH's O&D to that part of Brazil is definately more geared toward GIG.

Oil industry is responsible for OD flights.
How about non-OD flights? People who want to go elsewhere in the US/Canada?
Correct me if I am wrong, but you guys mean people who fly CO from Brazil is basically people who work in the oil industry? So all other "non-oil" pax choose AA, DL and UA to travel to other places in the US? Why can't CO attract "non-oil" pax?

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 17):
You have to remember that CO operates two daily flights in GRU: IAH and EWR.

You're right, but so does AA (DFW, MIA and JFK) and UA (IAD and ORD). But, as Ikramerica said, these two are larger airlines and possibly offer more options for intra-US flights.

[Edited 2009-07-26 11:56:32]

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11421 posts, RR: 58
Reply 24, posted (5 years 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 3070 times:
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Quoting DanVS (Reply 23):
Oil industry is responsible for OD flights.
How about non-OD flights? People who want to go elsewhere in the US/Canada?

You will agree that CO can attract more passengers to GIG from YYZ, ORD, DFW and LAX, places where there are non-stops to Sao Paulo.

Quoting DanVS (Reply 23):
Correct me if I am wrong, but you guys mean people who fly CO from Brazil is basically people who work in the oil industry? So all other "non-oil" pax choose AA, DL and UA to travel to other places in the US? Why can't CO attract "non-oil" pax?

We're talking about Houston-Rio de Janeiro O&D. There's more than 100 corporations from Houston with offices in Rio,
The point is that there's a mix among O&D and connections, that probably IAH-GIG performs better and therefore received the upgrade.
I



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
25 Hardiwv : Sorry to disagree, Lipe. Market share for each one of the carriers for the consolidated US-Brazil-US Market in December 2008: 1. AA 33% 2. TAM 26% 3.
26 LipeGIG : Try to compare with 5 years ago, and remember to compare this year-end. UA share is getting lower every year. The reason they got a 12% share in 2008
27 Hardiwv : Sorry, Lipe I disagree. UA also expanded because of TAM codeshare as I mentioned to you you may fly GRU-MIA or GIG-JFK on UA ticket via TAM codeshare
28 DanVS : I agree 100%. That's the thing. I was talking about the downgrade of GRU-IAH to a 762.
29 LipeGIG : This wouldn't increase their share on the market Hardi. They use 1 old configured 772 and you think it's make a difference ? The 763 used by UA is sm
30 DanVS : According to CO's website, here are the "loads" for the first flights IAH-GIG-IAH. (We all know these loads aren't 100% correct, but they can give us
31 LipeGIG : And sometimes this don't include passengers with unassigned seats. And you're correct, first three flights are 100% full and maybe with overbooking.
32 MAH4546 : And they also show seats taken when the seats are empty. They are of little value.
33 LAXdude1023 : Let me show you whats actually for sale on those dates: Aug.2 IAH-GIG: CO 129 J0 D0 Z0 A0 Y0 B0 M0 H0 K0 Q0 IAHGIG 915P 915A+762 U0 V0 G0 W0 E0 S0 T0
34 LipeGIG : It confirms flights are packed for the first days. Thanks.
35 Incitatus : Don't read too much into being sold out early August. On August 01 even ATL-MAO is sold out.
36 Hardiwv : KLM is sold out on all classes on 01Aug and 2Aug AMS-GRU B772. Rgs,
37 LipeGIG : You're right about this as it's the last week of the "top" peak season on iata summer. Hard to find seats to any place in Brazil. But the bookings fo
38 DanVS : I'm sorry to tell you this, but these data are even more useless than the seat maps. For example, what can you tell me with the data below? Aug. 7 IA
39 Incitatus : This tells me that this flight may be booked from about 0% to about 90%.
40 LAXdude1023 : This data tells you what is for sale.
41 MAH4546 : When every number is 6, 7, 8 or 9, you can say the flight has wide open availability.
42 LH506 : Does anybody know how US CLT-GIG pre-bookings look? That will certainly also effect UAs IAD-GIG service, even more than COs new service.
43 MAH4546 : UA will only fly IAD-GIG for about three weeks during the Christmas holiday.
44 LipeGIG : Last time i heard, very low advance bookings. But in fact, they do not advertise the flight yet in Brazil. However, demand from Brazil to US will be
45 MAH4546 : Airline routes advertise themselves through online booking systems. Airlines do not need to invest heavily in advertising. It is no surprise that US
46 LipeGIG : There's no perfect world for any airlines right now. They do need to advertise because the general public doesn't know US will begin flights, neither
47 C010T3 : The flight still shows "subject to foreign government approval", so nobody even touches it.
48 LipeGIG : Thanks for the update, and right now, a little more than 4 months for the first flight.
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