WINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 69 Reply 5, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 13277 times:
Quoting Mptpa (Thread starter): Here is the news from Flight Global.... MoU for A350, delivery starts in 2017, and Definitive order for B777LR delivery starting in 2010... Cool...Go ET!!
Congratulations to both Airbus, Boeing and Ethiopian Airlines. I have to make several observations regarding this announcement.
If I'm not mistaken this is the first time that Ethiopian Airlines have ordered Airbus airplanes. What is even more interesting is that this makes Ethiopian yet another airline to have opted for both the A350 and 787. Ethiopian currently have 8 x 788's and 2 x 789's on order.
Since Ethiopian were among the first airlines to receive the 787, I believe that the 77L will serve as a stop gap measure/compensation, especially considering the early delivery date.
It would also seem that GE will likely loose yet another customer, since RR Trent -XWB is currently the only engine option offered on the A350.
The route is barely 2/3rds full on a less-than-daily-763--I can't imagine why they'd need a 77L on it, particularly when all but a tiny minority of the traffic is connecting beyond ADD anyway. I can't think of a reason for an ET 77L other than maybe doing CAN, and maybe HKG, nonstop
Par13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 6499 posts, RR: 8 Reply 8, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 13129 times:
I read the article before logging in to this site, the main thing that struck me when I read the article were the comments on the engines, that the A350 is only available with RR and the 777-LR's with GE, wonder if the writer is trying to make a subtle point about something?
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9410 posts, RR: 11 Reply 9, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 13077 times:
Quoting WINGS (Reply 5): What is even more interesting is that this makes Ethiopian yet another airline to have opted for both the A350 and 787. Ethiopian currently have 8 x 788's and 2 x 789's on order.
Who will finance the ET order for the 787? I remember reading in the past that the financial backing for the 787 order was cancelled bringing the 787 order in doubt due to lack of financing? Pleas correct me on this.
IAD380 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 804 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 13030 times:
On what existing routes will they deploy their new long-haul aircraft? Will ET launch new routes to North America and the Asia/Pacific region once it acquires these new planes? I assume that ET will return to New York and start flying to Toronto.
MSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6347 posts, RR: 50 Reply 12, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 12940 times:
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 7): The route is barely 2/3rds full on a less-than-daily-763--I can't imagine why they'd need a 77L on it, particularly when all but a tiny minority of the traffic is connecting beyond ADD anyway
Well, I still say it's going to happen. Certainly not daily, but nonstop nevertheless.
Behramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4658 posts, RR: 43 Reply 13, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 12871 times:
I will also not be surprised at all to see ET expand to GRU with the B 788 to feed its SE Asia flights and East Africa/Middle East/Saudi Arabia/BOM/DEL bound flights. When the A 359 comes on board, the aircraft can be used easily to fly ADD GRU ADD nonstop to replace the B 788 once traffic has picked up and the route has matured fully.
Btw why did ET drop EWR in 2003? I think it had something to do with the interline baggage agreement they had with CO which got terminated and 2 other major reasons.
Abrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5000 posts, RR: 55 Reply 17, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 12611 times:
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 7): The route is barely 2/3rds full on a less-than-daily-763--I can't imagine why they'd need a 77L on it, particularly when all but a tiny minority of the traffic is connecting beyond ADD anyway. I can't think of a reason for an ET 77L other than maybe doing CAN, and maybe HKG, nonstop
= Yes. But perhaps the reason they lose connecting traffic and/or premium traffic and/or has 67% yields is because it is a 1-stop via FCO. Add in a nonstop IAD-ADD and you'll reduce times and build on a rather decent hub at ADD. Given ADD is a much better hub than most other airports in Africa, and ET has a pretty good network, I think the 77L would be placed on the market and would do well.
Kiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8442 posts, RR: 14 Reply 20, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 12453 times:
I suspect that the 777-200LRs have been selected for their hot and high performance more than for their range , but I still expect that we will start to see some of their current one-stop long hauls go non stop . ET has had huge growth from China in particular due to record levels of Chinese investment in Africa so I would expect CAN and HKG to go stand alone and lose the BKK enroute stops and likewise I would expect BJS to lose the current DEL stop and IAD to lose the current FCO stop . This will make ADD a more attractive hub . Who knows , we might even see some of the 777s being delivered with Star Alliance decals ( and entering the alliance which seems to be a matter of 'when' rather than 'if' can also be expected to increase traffic volumes for ET )
Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
PlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5030 posts, RR: 29 Reply 21, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 12239 times:
Quoting EbbUK (Reply 18): The MOU for the Airbus is a device to let Boeing know that the Africans mean business. If, as I suspect, they are being pressurised to surrender their early slots ET wants suitable compensation.
If there are further delays to the 7evenL8r7 then the Airbus are insurance.
I cannot see why ET would buy Airbus now, it makes no sense only as negotiating tactic.
5 777LR is good compensation. Wonder how much they paid?
There will never be an A350 in Ethiopian colours in my lifetime
Well, the good news is that EbbUK is predicting no further drastic delays to the 787 schedule. I mean, if the A350 is merely insurance against a further delayed 787, and he "knows" that there will never be an A350 ..... well, I guess I am thrilled that the 787 delay saga is over.
TravellerPlus From New Zealand, joined Nov 2008, 347 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 12020 times:
Quoting IAD380 (Reply 10): Prestige, ET is the flag carrier of Ethiopia.
I think this is an illconsidered post that smacks of stereotyping about the contintent. If Africa was such a black hole, why are airlines like DL adding capacity to the routes? Why are the yields traditionally quite high on African routes? Are you aware that African economies have still recorded growth these past few years, unlike us lot in the developed world?
ET is one of the most successful airlines in Africa. It has traditionally operated at a profit, it provides valuable maintainence services to the continent and has a history of developing new routes. It has a not too shabby service reputation too.
The location of ADD is not that far removed from the hubs of the Middle East, which are well located for linking the emerging and large economies of countries like India, China and Brazil. China has large interests in Africa too. ET and the ADD hub is well placed for serving northern and western Africa.
What goes around comes around....unless your luggage is not on the carousel...
Abrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5000 posts, RR: 55 Reply 24, posted (4 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 11994 times:
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 22): Perhaps, although the one stop puts it on par with any other routing between WAS and ADD, and the unique destinations offered beyond ADD don't get much better connected than via ET.
= Perhaps. However, they instantly become more competitive on beyond ADD to DEL, BOM, JED, and East Africa. And, ADD is a very nice airport to connect .
[Edited 2009-07-28 12:00:23]
Live, and let live.
25 Kaitak: Got to say, can't wait to see 777s in ET colours (although, frankly, I had also hoped to see them in ET's old colours, which I loved). A friend of min
26 Hardiwv: Verry good news for ET! I am sorry they pulled out of AMS to start operations in BRU. But AMS offered direct competition with KL AMS-KRT-ADD-AMS A330.
27 Abrelosojos: = Aaah ... but then it will lose its "GRU"ness and we'd both miss it . Saludos, A.
28 EPA001: A very good posts which basically says it all. I am pretty sure that you will be proved wrong in about 8 years. Talk to you then.
29 Hardiwv: Any ideas of future expansion of ET? ET also benefits from traffic generated by the African Union and its bodies, with plenty of bureaucrats flying in
30 Osteogenesis: Not if they have already decided to cancel the 787 order.
31 Thorben: Really good news, if you ask me. These are hardly routes that requires the range of a 77L. Certainly less than they would have without the 787 delay.
32 A342: As already stated above, ADD being a hot and high airport is a huge factor. IMO the A358 might have been more useful. With both wings and engines siz
33 Stitch: I'm going to hazard a guess they will be sending their 77Ls out at MTOW so even if they drop an engine shortly after rotation, they should be fine. T
34 Pellegrine: From your wording I'm guessing you meant to say "they will not be sending 77Ls at MTOW" According to Boeing, 77L with GE90-110B1L would have trouble
35 MaverickM11: Why would ET of all people want to jump into those hypercompetitive connecting markets? Not the range but the payload, particularly eastbound to CAN
36 A342: Yep, but the capability is still there. I guess the temperature and rpm limits will be the same, so the nominal thrust is maintained to a higher alti
37 BmiBaby737: Would we see these 777LR's at LHR at all?
38 EbbUK: Totally agree. And when you look at their route structure and loads, it is so clear that the T7 in any guise is too much metal. I think everyone know
39 Ikramerica: You are mistaken, because ET has not ordered the A350. An MoU is not an order. It's just a piece of paper that defines a potential order for a potent
40 BMI727: It certainly seems as though Ethiopian is still set on getting the 787. They have this portion of their website dedicated to it. http://www.ethiopiana
41 Pellegrine: " target=_blank>http://www.ethiopianairlines.com/en/....html Sweet find! Surprised they put the 'real' Boeing config diagram on the site. 24J/246Y=27
42 BMI727: They seem to already know what seats they want, so I'm inclined to think that this isn't generic. But it is stuffed, that 787-8 will have more seats
43 Egyptair269: Thats fantastic news! ET now has A350s, 777LRs and 787s on order! Huge plans!
44 PM: I doubt it. These news items generally indicate the engine choice if known. All the writer is doing is stating the current facts. GE is a given on th
45 Ikramerica: Well the 788 is a bit larger, and with 9Y seating, it's a lot larger. Saw that too. So they seem very serious about the MoU. Good to see.
46 Astuteman: I doubt that, given that it supposedly has at least a 300Nm range advantage over the A350-1000XWB... Rgds
47 Stitch: Yet it tanks 27,000 less liters so I'm guessing they figure that the A350-800XWB will dedicate more of her TOW to fuel than payload.
48 AerorobNZ: Is ET to take a leaf out of EKs book and open up a hub operation that allows them to reach anywhere in the world directly?? (and certainly all the Sta
49 Pellegrine: Ok, I'm confused about what you guys are talking about because it's a given: -every airliner will be carrying more fuel weight than payload weight fo
50 Kiwiandrew: considering how important freight is to ET I would not be surprised to see 777-200Fs added to this order at some point - at the moment they have a cou
51 Babybus: Is it me or is that a very odd mix of aircraft to have? It doesn't add up. I'm just guessing here that it was a political order and not an operational
52 USAFDO: ?????....Is this really going to happen? Unbelievable that this airline in this part of the world is going to spend this type of money!
53 Kiwiandrew: no more unbelievable than it would be for a US legacy carrier to be spending 'this type of money' , ET is in way better shape financially than most o
54 BMI727: A few decades ago people could have said the same thing about Middle Eastern carriers.
55 WINGS: A ''MOU'' is the final step before a firm contract is signed, and in which deposits are made to secure delivery slots. Do not confuse a ''LOI'' with
56 Aviationbuff: Congrats to ET, Boeing and Airbus. Best of luck to ET for their future expansion plans and growth.
57 EbbUK: OH! I think have confused the two. Not so sure about my earlier statements. I am now 99.2% sure that the A350 will not be in ET livery in my life tim
58 WINGS: I sure hope that you do not have suicidal tendencies. I'm personally still holding my breath to see the A330/A380 with ANA/JAL and UA. No that is som
59 EbbUK: You don't share my viewpoint then? It just does not make sense given that ET is a Boeing outpost in Africa. Something has to give, either the 7evneL8
60 Zeke: That is not all "Ethiopian has 35 new airplanes on order direct from the manufacturers. Including the recent orders of five B777-200LR and twelve A35
61 WINGS: What I believe is that in order for an airline to be kept competitive they have to look at all options. A well managed airline will look towards both
62 A342: "The B777-200LR will be powered by General Electric GE90-115 engines while the A-350-900 will be powered by Trent XWB-84." http://www.ethiopianairline
63 Behramjee: The Boeing press release mentions that ET will use these aircraft to fly to PEK and IAD nonstop. If they do use this aircraft to PEK daily as stated i
64 Airbazar: If that's such a huge factor they'd be ordering A340's That's a lot of money for a small carrier like ET to throw out the window just to play hard ba
65 AustrianZRH: They'd be more expensive as Boeing is now giving 777s away for free as the 787 is delayed . Sorry, couldn't resist, just had to remember the 330/380
66 EbbUK: Yes sea level reality would point to that. But this is hot and high ADD we're talking about. Aren't there anymore sacred cows in civil aviation? It w
67 AF022: I'm not an expert on these things, but why the A350 in addition to the 787 and 777. What can the A350 do that the 787/777 cannot? Or is it purely as a
68 Stitch: The A350-900XWB and A350-1000XWB will be larger than the 787-9. Both are also claimed by Airbus to be much more efficient than the 777.
69 Cchan: Even now before JNB's renovations are finished, I would think spending a few hours at JNB would be easier than ADD. At JNB, there are more planes and
70 Airbazar: They can still be the first to fly the A350 in Africa
71 BMI727: Just like AC used to be an Airbus outpost in North America?
72 EbbUK: A customer yes, and outpost never. And now look at them. It would be an end of an era if Airbus came to ET for African aviation. I am not at all dism
73 Mariner: Why would you want there to be? It is a fine line between sacred cow and dinosaur. mariner
74 BMI727: Yeah, they decided that Boeing aircraft would better suit some of their needs so that is what they bought. There are only a few carriers around the w
75 WestWing: The Boeing press release clearly implies that ET have not [yet] cancelled any 787 orders. Separate question. Is this the first order of the -115 engin
76 Airbazar: You're not exagerating at all ET is a tiny page in Boeing's huge portfolio of customers. Sacred cow? Please. IB was a sacred cow. LH was a sacred cow
77 Stitch: I believe the majority of 777-200LR's are delivered with the GE90-115B as opposed to the GE90-110B.
78 757ops: I would like to say that the ADD-IAD-ADD flights are very busy! I have travelled as Non-Rev and waited 5 days just to get a jump seat on this route! I
79 Swallow: ET has the largest footprint with 35 destinations, followed by KQ with 34. It will match ET in Sept when flights commence to BLZ and then SA with 22
80 ETStar: This is quiet a bold move by ET. It has generally been very conservative when it came to fleet acquisitions and expansion, what we have seen in the la
81 AlexEU: Wow, first B737NG, then B787 and now B77L. What´s next A380?! Perhaps we´ll see nonstop Beijing or even Japan, as there are no direct Japan-Africa f
82 Pellegrine: Ok. I do know there is significant Ethiopian populations in both Washington and New York metro areas.
83 Cchan: I have a booking on this route for late September, it showed a 757 when I booked, but now the schedule changed to a 737. Spending 5 hours 30 minutes
84 AlexEU: I´ve seen the pictures of ET 737NG in Jo´burg, but I don´t know how can B737 fly JNB-ADD without a stop?? According to Great Circle B737-700 can n
85 Thorben: That is only 8,000km. The 77E has a nominal range of 14,000+ km. It should be able to do that route with a full payload. Can't thay wait, or do they
86 Cchan: I have been on this flight, a 737-700, in January. It was non-stop and had a decent (nearly full) passenger load. Also, ET gives 40kg baggage allowan
87 AlexEU: I flew B737-300 for 7 hours (with a stop) and it can be hard! It is also strange that ET uses B757 for routes such as LLW, while they run B737 on JNB
88 Pellegrine: Actually according to GE and the operating airlines they are all GE90-110B1L as ordered. Even EK and QR whom you may think would want -115. The extra
89 Airbazar: With the 787 late by 2 years or more, ET would likely make money by canceling their order. Like "4 engines 4 long haul"?
90 AF022: If the B737-700 is configured the same as the B757-200 in economy - 3-3 - then can I ask what difference it makes between 757 and 737 service on a 5.
91 Cchan: The 757 is at least longer and there is more space to move around when the seatbelt sign is off. On the 737-700, when it is time passengers start usi
92 Stitch: I know the -110B is the "standard" engine offered, but I thought a number of carriers went with the -115B. Of course, it doesn't help when GE's own p
93 Pellegrine: We're reading the same things, it sure is confusing. I think because the -115B was developed and put in service first for the 77W and the -110B1L was
94 Stitch: I think you've hit on it. It appears GE considers both engines the "GE90-115B family" and refers to them generically as GE90-115Bs. So it sounds like
95 ETStar: They do so mostly with a 73W than a 752 or 763, although the latter two are deployed whenever necessary. Have they not waited long enough to cripple
96 Cchan: Not me, but I do know an older fellow who has bladder issues. He lives in the Cook Islands in the South Pacific, his lifestyle is rather frugal but h
97 Aircellist: And I believe twin-engine out performance will be dismal for both. Very well said, sir!
98 Airbazar: As someone who's flown TATL on a 757 vs. every other widebody available today with the exception of the A380, not to mention countless 5+ hour US tra
99 Thorben: They have 10 763 and ordered 10 788. Both have around 240 seats. That is a 1:1 replacement without any growth.
100 ETStar: Growth is not limited to fleet size but includes destinations served and passengers carried. The 787, if it performs as expected, offers greater dist
101 AlexEU: That´s what strange to me. South African doesn´t fly to ADD and yet ET can´t fill the B757s.
102 AF022: I believe there are around 30 weekly nonstop NBO-JNB a week, split between KQ and SAA. Is the NBO-JNB market that much bigger, or is KQ doing better
103 Swallow: Probably both. ET codeshares with SA on the JNB-ADD sector but it seems KQ does a better job of routing Southern Africa traffic to East and West Afri