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Question About B767-400?  
User currently offlineDLDTW1962 From United States of America, joined May 2009, 393 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 2 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5787 times:

I was just looking at the photos of this aircraft and I notice that on DL and CO purchased this aircraft. So my question is. Did any other airlines in the world purchase this plane?

Thanks
Chuck

35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15749 posts, RR: 27
Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5717 times:



Quoting DLDTW1962 (Thread starter):
Did any other airlines in the world purchase this plane?

No, although Kenya Airways ordered them but none were delivered. Also, the 767-400ER was supposed to serve as the platform for the E-10MC2A aircraft that was canceled. The test airframe for that program has since been sold to a Middle Eastern entity where it will most likely become a private jet.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31055 posts, RR: 87
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5643 times:
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Kenya Airways ordered the 767-400ERX, however that model was never put into production/

User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5635 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):

No, although Kenya Airways ordered them but none were delivered.

They ordered the 767-400ERX, which was to have a higher MTOW, a longer range, and had two engine options, the Engine Alliance GP7172 and the RR Trent 600. When the 764ERX was canceled by Boeing, Kenya Airways converted their order to 772ERs.

International Lease Finance Corporation also ordered it, but like Kenya Airways, they converted their order to 772ERs.


User currently offlineEBJ1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days ago) and read 5553 times:

The 767-400 is one of those airplanes that should have done real well but didn't. Personally, it's my favorite among the 767s and I still can't get over the fact that Boeing never offered a freighter version of it. I know, someone in another thread probably explained why it didn't happen, but I still think it would have been a great idea.


Dare to dream; dream big!
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15749 posts, RR: 27
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5531 times:



Quoting Srbmod (Reply 3):
They ordered the 767-400ERX,



Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
Kenya Airways ordered the 767-400ERX,

You guys are right. Thanks for the correction.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineOdysseus9001 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5498 times:



Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 4):
The 767-400 is one of those airplanes that should have done real well but didn't. Personally, it's my favorite among the 767s and I still can't get over the fact that Boeing never offered a freighter version of it. I know, someone in another thread probably explained why it didn't happen, but I still think it would have been a great idea

Yep, generally have been flying DL 767-400ERs ATL-LIM and back, 1-2 times a month since last October. I have to say I like it a lot, as a passenger. Generally comfortable & never been an equipment-related cancellation or delay.

Odysseus9001


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5460 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5113 times:

I wonder if a 787 customer, needing additional capacity soon (if there is such an airline these days) could get Boeing to build a half-dozen or so 764's as "loaners" pending eventual delivery of 787's.

This kind of deal - shipping an interim aircraft - is not unprecedented; but I don't know if either Boeing or an airline is needy enough to take the deal.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31055 posts, RR: 87
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5096 times:
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Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 7):
I wonder if a 787 customer, needing additional capacity soon (if there is such an airline these days) could get Boeing to build a half-dozen or so 764's as "loaners" pending eventual delivery of 787's.

The problem is the time necessary to deliver them between the ability of suppliers to manufacturer 767-400ER-specific parts and the current production queue of 767-300Fs and 767-300ERs.


User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2688 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5017 times:

Why is it called "767-400ER", and not just "767-400", since there is no no-ER 767-400?


אמא, אני מתגעגע לך
User currently offlineAA777223 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1246 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4968 times:



Quoting LY777 (Reply 9):
Why is it called "767-400ER", and not just "767-400", since there is no no-ER 767-400?

Because it features the engines, wing, fuel capacity, etc. or greater of all the other 767-ER models. If the 764 did not feature these upgrades, the fuselage weight would produce an aircraft with greatly hampered range. Many don't realize how long legged the 767 family really is, especially the 300 and 200 ERs. The 764 is progressively shorter, but without those upgrades, it would be an almost purely transcontinental (or maybe transatlantic) aircraft. This of the fact the the 739 is no longer offered... only the 739ER.



Sic 'em bears
User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4903 times:



Quoting AA777223 (Reply 10):
Quoting LY777 (Reply 9):
Why is it called "767-400ER", and not just "767-400", since there is no no-ER 767-400?

Because it features the engines, wing, fuel capacity, etc. or greater of all the other 767-ER models. If the 764 did not feature these upgrades, the fuselage weight would produce an aircraft with greatly hampered range. Many don't realize how long legged the 767 family really is, especially the 300 and 200 ERs. The 764 is progressively shorter, but without those upgrades, it would be an almost purely transcontinental (or maybe transatlantic) aircraft. This of the fact the the 739 is no longer offered... only the 739ER.

Because the 767-400ER is pretty long legged itself. It has the same range as the A330-300X, I believe out to 5,600nm, which is not substantially less than the 763ER.



We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
User currently offlineAvConsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4818 times:



Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 4):
I still can't get over the fact that Boeing never offered a freighter version of it.

It would have been a perfect platform, but Boeing produces an annual World Cargo Report that is very accurate. IIRCC, from '03 to now the Boeing forecast has been very bleak in cargo demand. IMO, I do not think Boeing wanted to support a 3rd twin/wide body.

Quoting Odysseus9001 (Reply 6):
never been an equipment-related cancellation or delay.

I cannot recall where, I read a report, within the last 2 years, about the 767-400 dispatch reliability being off the chart!!


I thought a European carrier flew the 767-400. Thompson's or some one, no?


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5460 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4801 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 8):
The problem is the time necessary to deliver them

The 767 line backlog is pretty small; so far 2009 orders are minus 3, and deliveries are 6. You could probably get delivery in a year to eighteen months, which might beat the the early 787's - and nobody seems to want the early 787's, anyway.

Just a thought. If traffic were booming it might have an appeal.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineGatorman96 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4778 times:

Didn't Malaysia Airlines order a few that ultimately went to Delta, hence the -MH in some of their regs?


Cha brro
User currently offlineAvConsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4759 times:



Quoting Gatorman96 (Reply 14):
Didn't Malaysia Airlines order a few that ultimately went to Delta, hence the -MH in some of their regs?

I was told the -MH stood for Mullen's Holding. I'm certain that was rumor started in the pilots lounge.


User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6557 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4706 times:



Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 15):
I was told the -MH stood for Mullen's Holding. I'm certain that was rumor started in the pilots lounge.

No, that rumor is false. In truth, the reason for the MH suffix was due to the fact that the prototype 764ER, N825MH, was given that registration by Boeing. That aircraft ultimately ended up with Delta, and Delta felt that there was no reason to change it, so DL registered the rest of their 764ERs as N826MH-N845MH for consistency.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4650 times:



Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 12):
I thought a European carrier flew the 767-400. Thompson's or some one, no?

No European carrier has ever operated the 767-400; DL and CO are the only two airlines to ever take delivery of a 767-400ER (Yes there is that one VIP 764, but that was an airframe that was never intended to be delivered to a commercial customer, as it was a testbed a/c.) . You may be confusing one of Alitalia's internal 767 configuration codes with the actual 767-400ER.


User currently offlineAvConsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4609 times:



Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 16):
That aircraft ultimately ended up with Delta, and Delta felt that there was no reason to change it, so DL registered the rest of their 764ERs as N826MH-N845MH for consistency.

That makes sense. I heard that rumor in 2005 on a hotel bus in NYC with 2 DL crews on board. For 15 minutes I thought wow. Then I felt no way, that's a typical rumor from the flight line. Good one though.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 17):
You may be confusing one of Alitalia's internal 767 configuration codes with the actual 767-400ER.

Good point, I think that's it.


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12150 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4568 times:



Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 12):
I thought a European carrier flew the 767-400. Thompson's or some one, no?

No, Thompson bought the B-757-300.


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31055 posts, RR: 87
Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4545 times:
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Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 13):
The 767 line backlog is pretty small...

So is the production rate, at one per month.

Assuming all existing customers did not defer any of their 61 unfilled orders (as of June 2009), a new 767 order placed today would be delivered in five years.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25457 posts, RR: 22
Reply 21, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4514 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 20):
Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 13):
The 767 line backlog is pretty small...

So is the production rate, at one per month.

Assuming all existing customers did not defer any of their 61 unfilled orders (as of June 2009), a new 767 order placed today would be delivered in five years.

That could well change if the 767 is finally selected as the new USAF tanker.


User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4448 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 21):
That could well change if the 767 is finally selected as the new USAF tanker.

What is the story on that? I thought it went to the 767, then once corruption was found, went to the KC-30, then that went silent, and now the order is still open? I don't really care who wins out as long as the USAF gets something to replace the ailing KC-135s. It would be nice for the 767 to win, as it would keep the line moving for years, not to mention a 762 with the 764s wingtips would look super cool.



We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31055 posts, RR: 87
Reply 23, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4446 times:
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Quoting EA772LR (Reply 22):
What is the story on that?

It's being discussed in the Military Aviation forum.

Essentially, the Government Accounting Office ruled (at least in part) in favor of Boeing's appeal of the RFP award to the KC-30A on the grounds that the USAF adjusted the review to favor certain elements of the KC-30A bid.

The Department of Defense subsequently invalidated the award and instructed both teams to re-submit a new RFP at a future date to be determined.


User currently offline7673mech From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 730 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4054 times:
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Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 19):
No, Thompson bought the B-757-300.

Thomson never had 757-300 aircraft.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 17):
(Yes there is that one VIP 764, but that was an airframe that was never intended to be delivered to a commercial customer, as it was a testbed a/c

It was purchased by Bahrain Royal flight.
It is currently stored at the MRO at Everett, WA.
Interior being designed.


25 A342 : Boeing ought to stick the GEnx 2B under its wing due to the 787 delays. But I think their engineering resources are already quite stretched.
26 Stitch : GE would need to modify the fan to clear as the fan on the GEnx-2B67 going on the 747-8 family I believe is around 10 inches greater than the fan fou
27 Caljn : I agree completely. CO's 764's feel new and spacious...right amount of "noise" at cruise. And you gotta love that HUGE center lavatory!
28 Stylo777 : so how many 767-400ER Boeing has ever produced and sold? I guess there is no 764 in production at the moment?
29 DocLightning : That wouldn't be difficult to do. There has to be 5 inches of clearance in the pylon design. But the 767NG would need to be current for at least a de
30 7673mech : Continental 16. Delta 21. VIP 1.
31 Stitch : 38 were sold and delivered. Correct. All current 767 production is the 767-300F and 767-300ER.
32 PlunaCRJ : Having the 787 (delayed or not), it wouldn´t be smart to spend resources in a 767NG. The 787 is in many ways already the 767NG. New avionics and int
33 413x3 : And does anyone know about the fate of nw dc9s? Seriously this question is asked just as much but why does no one bother to point that out?
34 7673mech : The person asking the question has been a member for 2 months, no need to be rude about it.
35 C5LOAD : I had thought it was around 6500nm. But this brings up he question of is DL going to be sending their newly acquired A330s to JNB and back?
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