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DL Tristars @ VCV,what Are They Waiting For?  
User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7496 posts, RR: 7
Posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 10336 times:

I was looking at today's top picture on the homepage. I see that DL still has L1011's parke@ VCV . They retired them almost 8 years ago . These L's are an obsolete plane , with very few flying in the world. Why have they not been scrapped?
I also see a picture of a 767-200 being scrapped there,do they not scrap planes by the fence near the dirt hill where they used to anymore . That was a great spot for pictures.


'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
57 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25376 posts, RR: 49
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 10285 times:

There are still ex EA and PA planes in the desert. It cost money to scrap a plane.
Until someone purchases them for scrap they sit. Also don't forget as long as parking charges are being paid for, its not like they are abandoned property.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineCessna172RG From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 749 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 10238 times:

If they can bring one up to airworthy status, I'll pay for myself to get rated in one and gladly remove it from the desert and turn it into a flying bar in the sky...going from airport to airport, picking up people and the only airfare you'd pay is the cost of your martini. Oh, and there would be a cigar bar and smoking lounge, too! Any takers?


Save the whales...for dinner!!!
User currently offlineKeuleatr72 From Germany, joined Apr 2008, 97 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 10207 times:

@ Cessna172RG

You can count me in! I´ll have a nice Cohiba and a bottle of Tallisker here in DUS!

Cheers


User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10427 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 10187 times:



Quoting Cessna172RG (Reply 2):
If they can bring one up to airworthy status, I'll pay for myself to get rated in one and gladly remove it from the desert and turn it into a flying bar in the sky...going from airport to airport, picking up people and the only airfare you'd pay is the cost of your martini. Oh, and there would be a cigar bar and smoking lounge, too! Any takers?

I can only imagine how much you'd have to pay for drinks.  Wink



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineFlyboyseven From Canada, joined Feb 2007, 904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 10151 times:

It could be named "The Mile High Club"  wink 


As long as the number of take-offs equals the number of landings...you're doing fine.
User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10427 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 10100 times:



Quoting Flyboyseven (Reply 5):
It could be named "The Mile High Club"

You could have several classes of service, depending on the type of drinks you like and how well you hold your liquor.

1. Cocktail service.....this is for the social drinkers and those that would be able to walk off the aircraft after a trip.

2. Straight booze service.....for those that cannot hold their liquor and have to be assisted off the plane.

3. Beer service....for those that cannot afford the other two categories and just drink too much until they're too bloated to move. They also need assistance off of the plane.

4. TOO much beer service...........for those that cannot afford the top two services and yet, cannot hold their beer. This service includes extra lavs and earmuffs for those that don't want to hear you. Definitely need assistance off the plane.

 Wink  Wink  Wink  Wink  Wink

Back to topic......I would imagine someone else has ownership of these Tristars by now.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 9423 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 9911 times:



Quoting Mayor (Reply 6):
Back to topic......I would imagine someone else has ownership of these Tristars by now.

hmmm......would(if DL still owned them) be in there 10-K? Or anything for the SEC?



yep.
User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9515 times:

They are waiting for someone to either buy them or buy their parts/scrap. Simple as that. If they have no buyer for the plane, it's parts, or whatever, then it sits there. It cost them money to dismantle the plane because they have others that customers have paid money for to be scrapped, re-done, or whatnot.


Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offlineC5LOAD From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 917 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9465 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
as long as parking charges are being paid for

Are you telling me that DL still PAYS for these planes to sit there? If they do , then that is a SERIOUS waste of money!



"But this airplane has 4 engines, it's an entirely different kind of flying! Altogether"
User currently offlineScrubbsYWG From Canada, joined Mar 2007, 1495 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9440 times:



Quoting C5LOAD (Reply 9):
Are you telling me that DL still PAYS for these planes to sit there? If they do , then that is a SERIOUS waste of money!

Do you think it is free to store a plane there?

I dont know how much it would cost, but dismantling and scrapping a whole plane costs a lot of money as well. I would assume the parking charges are much much less than the cost of dismantling the planes.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25376 posts, RR: 49
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9419 times:



Quoting C5LOAD (Reply 9):
Are you telling me that DL still PAYS for these planes to sit there? If they do , then that is a SERIOUS waste of money!

Yes the legal owners of an aircraft - airline, bank, leasing company, equity partnership, estate etc pays.

It very rare an aircraft is simply abandoned as even the oldest planes have some value in parts.

Anyhow storing is not that expensive particuarly if you dont perforrm any formal weekly or monthly maintenance or upkeep program for the airframe.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineC5LOAD From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 917 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9389 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
Yes the legal owners of an aircraft - airline, bank, leasing company, equity partnership, estate etc pays.

So if a car gets junked, does the owner pay for it to be there? If DL is in such a financial crisis, and has been since they retired the L1011s, why didn't they just pay for them to be scrapped when they retired them, and relieve themselves of the cost of having an airplane just sit there?



"But this airplane has 4 engines, it's an entirely different kind of flying! Altogether"
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25376 posts, RR: 49
Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 9284 times:



Quoting C5LOAD (Reply 12):
So if a car gets junked, does the owner pay for it to be there?

When you junk a car, you legally turn the title over, and some party earns money from junking your car.

Its very rare a plane is flown and simply abandoned at one of these desert facilities. Matter of fact the parking facilities would pursue legal action if such did happen. These facilities are all for profit businesses, and make money from storing and maintaining the airframes and engines.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9240 times:

Wells Fargo Bank Northwest owns the nine (9) ex-Delta L-1011-500's that are currently stored at VCV. Six (6) of these previously operated by Pan Am and three (3) by Air Canada.

User currently offlineC5LOAD From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 917 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9225 times:



Quoting 474218 (Reply 14):
Wells Fargo Bank Northwest owns the nine (9) ex-Delta L-1011-500's that are currently stored at VCV

So is Wells Fargo hoping that somebody will come along and buy them?, because it seems that in 8 years, if nobody has bought them yet I don't think anybody will. They don't make good freighters, and I believe Saha Air is the only passenger airline still using them. IMHO, Saha Air is a glimmer of hope these airplanes have. (A small one at that)



"But this airplane has 4 engines, it's an entirely different kind of flying! Altogether"
User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9143 times:



Quoting C5LOAD (Reply 15):
So is Wells Fargo hoping that somebody will come along and buy them?, because it seems that in 8 years, if nobody has bought them yet I don't think anybody will. They don't make good freighters, and I believe Saha Air is the only passenger airline still using them. IMHO, Saha Air is a glimmer of hope these airplanes have. (A small one at that)

Sort of. See, the airport there is making money off the airplanes parked on their grounds. Also, there are a number of L1011's still in use, even here in the states. Flying hospital, and some others. They are in need of constant parts and those parked planes can be robbed of those parts so long as there is a need. It's no secret that the owners will ultimately lose money on them.



Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offlineJimbobjoe From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 655 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9133 times:

So based on this, I assume the cost of junking it is more expensive than simply storing it over a period of decades.

User currently offlineC5LOAD From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 917 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9112 times:



Quoting Lexy (Reply 16):
Also, there are a number of L1011's still in use, even here in the states. Flying hospital, and some others

That number is diminishing quite a bit as fuel prices continue to increase (yeah they will go low for a bit but they will continue to increase over time) so there is less of a need for them when now you can go and get 762s and 763s out of the boneyard and have one less engine to worry about. Also, wouldn't boneyards want to take some initiative of their own and scrap planes that haven't and won't get bought in order to free up space for incoming a/c. They can't just keep putting them out there can they? They have to have a perimeter.



"But this airplane has 4 engines, it's an entirely different kind of flying! Altogether"
User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9089 times:

Quoting C5LOAD (Reply 18):
That number is diminishing quite a bit as fuel prices continue to increase (yeah they will go low for a bit but they will continue to increase over time) so there is less of a need for them when now you can go and get 762s and 763s out of the boneyard and have one less engine to worry about. Also, wouldn't boneyards want to take some initiative of their own and scrap planes that haven't and won't get bought in order to free up space for incoming a/c. They can't just keep putting them out there can they? They have to have a perimeter.

Yes it is, but they still have to remain in a position to "service" those few customers left out there. Remaining competitive helps keep the price higher for them. ROW is another large L1011 resting spot. So there is some competition out there for business.

At some point, the banks may "donate" portions (or the whole thing) of the airframe to non-profits as a tax write-off or something. Most will just take the hit once the value dips so low that the loss is minimal. You have to keep in mind though, the RAF also operate a handful of tristars. You should check out the July edition of "Airliner World" magazine and read the "Tristar" article in it. Very good read for those intrested and it also features one of m photos in it!

Get ready for a shameless plug...... 


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michael Davis - AirTeamImages



[Edited 2009-07-30 18:58:28]


Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offlineC5LOAD From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 917 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9058 times:



Quoting Lexy (Reply 19):
You have to keep in mind though, the RAF also operate a handful of tristars.

Then why doesn't the RAF buy them to convert them? Is it just me, or isn't it kind of a waste when you keep putting money into something and really not getting a return on it at all? Wells Fargo Bank pays for these planes to sit there and the airplanes aren't making them any money just sitting there? I figured, when the airlines were done with the a/c, they paid the storage facility to take it and that would be the end of it. The storage facility would then own the airplane. Am I talking crazy? If I am, please correct me.



"But this airplane has 4 engines, it's an entirely different kind of flying! Altogether"
User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 9031 times:

No, you're not talking crazy at all. It makes sense what you are saying.

Quoting C5LOAD (Reply 20):
Then why doesn't the RAF buy them to convert them?

That's easy. There are two reasons.

1.) They don't need them.

2.) Most are probably high cycle and gutted already.

Most Tristars in the boneyards of the American Southwest have been "gutted" in some form or fashion. There is really only one left that is even close to being able to fly. That one is in ROW and belongs to the Airline History Museum in Kansas City.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michael Davis - AirTeamImages



[Edited 2009-07-30 19:15:11]


Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 9023 times:



Quoting United_Fan (Thread starter):
with very few flying in the world.

There is more than than very flew flying. Besides parts can fetch some nice money and as many here said it costs money to scrap and nothing to let it sit there.


User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4002 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 9003 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Jimbobjoe (Reply 17):
So based on this, I assume the cost of junking it is more expensive than simply storing it over a period of decades.

Not necessarily, but a lot of businesses, especially banks, look no further than the next annual, or even quarterly earnings.

If the cost of storing a plane is $1,000 a quarter and the cost of scrapping it is $10,000, a bank will gladly spend the $1,000 every quarter for the next 20 years and pats itself on the back every quarter for having postponed a $9,000 long-term liability.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8995 times:



Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 23):
If the cost of storing a plane is $1,000 a quarter and the cost of scrapping it is $10,000, a bank will gladly spend the $1,000 every quarter for the next 20 years and pats itself on the back every quarter for having postponed a $9,000 long-term liability.

That's it right there. Well said!



Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
25 C5LOAD : Yes, but what about the potential cost of having to scrap other planes or simply making more room to park airplanes that are coming in for retirement
26 LAXintl : Actualy the parking vs scrap cost is a bit different. The airport up in MHV last I saw charged $500/mo for storage assuming zero required maintenance
27 MasseyBrown : Another reason old hulks hang around is the price of scrap aluminum. It has fallen from about $1.10 a pound in 2006 to about 28 cents a pound today. I
28 Jolau1701 : I wonder if any of these parked planes can be used as movie sets/props.
29 Post contains links LAXintl : I believe Lost used parts if a DL L-1011 for its airplane crash, but otherwise its a little difficulat to actualy use a random stored aircraft as a s
30 FX1816 : Not sure about the other fields but here at VCV they barely use maybe 25-30% of the area that the airport is on. In fact it might be even less than t
31 FX1816 : Don't forget that Universal Studios bought an ANA 747SR. FX1816
32 AirNovaBAe146 : In early 2006 a Ugandan operator acquired one of the former Delta L1011s. I saw it parked on the ramp in Entebbe several times, in the widget paint sc
33 EGCC777LR : And some may call me naive but isn't that why our world is in financial crisis if that's how our banks think....
34 7673mech : That is exactly how bankers think!!!
35 Warreng24 : BlueFlyer is spot on. Banks report quarterly financial results and they also have to provide future guidance. It looks "better" to have a continuous
36 Post contains links and images 474218 : There is only one L-1011 currently operating in the United States. View Large View MediumPhoto © Werner Horvath This one. The Flying Hospital has no
37 September11 : Where are the pictures?
38 Wjcandee : This is crap. Anyone with the slightest knowledge of finance and financial statements knows that you can easily look at the net present value of that
39 Lexy : That's true, but there is also the RAF's. They are here, atleast in the Vegas area, enough they could almost be considered as operating here. LOL!! S
40 N62NA : Well, now I don't know who to believe. Wjcandee's comment makes some sense, but because of the insulting manner in which it was written, I wonder if
41 LAXintl : Up in MHV. Got PA 727 and EA DC-9. Suspect other PA EA frames floating around in other places. I believe I saw a pic of a PA 727 at OPA not too long
42 United787 : I would assume that the price of aluminum will eventually get to price that it is more economical to scrap the plane and sell the aluminum rather tha
43 Mayor : Wasn't it the banks "thinking" that helped get us into the economic mess we're in, now? Maybe those economics classes need to be revised.
44 BMIFlyer : Occasional VC10s too! We brits like to use the Arizona desert for Afghanistan training
45 Post contains links and images Viscount724 : The first DC-8 built, "Ship One", the prototype that made the first flight on May 30, 1958, spent almost 20 years in the desert after the last of it'
46 MasseyBrown : There are some forecasts that scrap aluminum will get up to about 60 cents a pound by next spring; there are other forecasts that say we stagnate aro
47 Wjcandee : Point well taken. I hadn't had my coffee yet. Sorry if it was crabby. Fact is, there are a variety of reasons that aircraft are parked and paid to be
48 ATA L1011 : Well DL/NW have alot of older equipment in storage and some have been there for many years, not only L10's. DC-10's, 747's, etc etc. Not to mention UA
49 474218 : If the Feds require all the outstanding AD's and the long over due C-Check to be accomplished prior to S/N 1066's ferry flight from Roswell to Kansas
50 Lexy : I'm with you on this! Personally, I would like to see it cut up and hauled on tractor trailers to Kansas City where it can be reassembled. I digress
51 United_Fan : I remember seeing a PA 707 at DMA in 2000.
52 Vegasplanes : I did the "Boneyard" tour at DMA back in April, lots of 707's of various operators in different states of dis-assembly. Also a UA 721 which seemed ou
53 Viscount724 : Apart from the retired airline 707-320Cs acquired by the USAF for conversion to E-8 J-STARS radar targeting aircraft, they also acquired a large numb
54 Jetstar : I think the FAA’s problem is with the safety of the airplane, not that it’s AD notes are not up to date or the airplane needs a rear spar check.
55 Post contains links 474218 : Seems the FAA considers the rear inspection/repair one of the pacing items: http://www.kansascity.com/637/story/1336855.html Read the tenth sentence.
56 Airtrainer : According to the photo caption that will be nice to see this beauty restored in TW colors !
57 United_Fan : There were also some TW L1011's in IGM when I was there in 06. Sucks since they put of that fence in '05 or so. Also,an EA commuter Junkstream of some
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