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Pinnacle Problems?  
User currently offlineBrandonfs88 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 177 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3735 times:
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Has anyone else noticed Pinnacle has been having Mx/Crew issues lately? It seems every day there is some sort of crew rest delay for Mx delay

41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6449 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3721 times:

Can you be more specific with examples? I am sure that every airline of Pinnacles size has
MX/Crew issues on a daily basis.


User currently offlineBrandonfs88 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 177 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3702 times:
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Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 1):
Can you be more specific with examples? I am sure that every airline of Pinnacles size has
MX/Crew issues on a daily basis.

Well this morning one flight was delayed for crew rest(understandable) , the other one the crew showed up 13 min prior to departure, and over the last week we've had at least one flight a day cancel for Mx.

It seems theres been more issues since Delta did the new pass policy where there getting screwed. I've noticed crews being more picky i guess when there doing there walk arounds


User currently offlineStratosphere From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1651 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3684 times:



Quoting Brandonfs88 (Reply 2):
It seems theres been more issues since Delta did the new pass policy where there getting screwed. I've noticed crews being more picky i guess when there doing there walk arounds

Yep you are right about that..Coupled with the pilot contract being dragged out for so long and you have a receipe for pilot unhappiness...Just go on the Airline Pilot Central Forums and look on the regional airline section and you will see how unhappy they are right now.



NWA THE TRUE EVIL EMPIRE
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6449 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3650 times:



Quoting Brandonfs88 (Reply 2):
It seems theres been more issues since Delta did the new pass policy where there getting screwed.

What do they think is unfair about the new Delta pass policy? Pinnacle is not a wholly owned subsidiary.


User currently offlineJblake1 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3644 times:

Everyone seems to forget that despite the gripes and complaints, Pinnacle is consistently in the top 2 or 3 of on-time carriers among all carriers in the US. Please don't rebut with its "block times" NW (now DL) schedules block times so snuff to that.

User currently offlineBhmdiversion From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 457 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3593 times:

Pinnacle is the newer version of Mesa, when it comes to MX. They are terrible. Planes fly with dents over a year old, scratches, gouges, you name it... I thought Mesa was bad, but WOW... Together with a contract that is PAST DUE is the makings of something bad. Very bad.

User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3889 posts, RR: 28
Reply 7, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3490 times:

Pinnacle more often than not, schedule their crews to the MAX duty times and the MIN rest requirements. When you mix that with mx and or weather delays, you have a major ripple in the system with crews requiring proper crew rest, thereby delaying flights. It's been this way for a long, long time and is unlikely to change any time soon.

As for any slow downs as suggested, there is no way to prove that is going on. The Pinnacle pilots have never been happy, contract or not. THey've been constantly mistreated by management and work at a company with a poisoned culture for safety, training and labor relations.

As for the uptick in mx problems... maybe the crews are just being that much more diligent with their jobs and holding the company accountable for their actions or inactions.

With regards to OT performance... those number that include Pinnacle are comparisons to companies that report to the DOT. While Pinnacle does a good job, there are airlines out there that beat them on a regular basis that don't report to the DOT. And as much as the Pinnacle employees gripe about the ground handling that XJ provides, they provide much of the support for those great metrics.

[Edited 2009-07-31 15:52:11]

User currently offlineAviationbuff08 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 346 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3301 times:



Quoting Jblake1 (Reply 5):
Everyone seems to forget that despite the gripes and complaints, Pinnacle is consistently in the top 2 or 3 of on-time carriers among all carriers in the US.

That's rather easy to accomplish when they pull the breaker on the ACARS when they know they are going to be delayed. This allows the dispatcher to insert the "on time" regardless whether it was true or not.. This straight from a Pinnacle FO who was jump seating on another Carrier and just couldn't resist giving advice. Talk about spilling the company secrets.


Another reason is the Pinnacle the parent company of Colgan Airlines and does have the FAA looking very hard at their operations, like all regional carriers since ... well everyone here knows why anyway.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 9, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3292 times:



Quoting Aviationbuff08 (Reply 8):
like all regional carriers since ... well everyone here knows why anyway.

Unless you have specific evidence, I would say that you shouldn't be lumping all regionals together. This summer alone, I've flown with Compass, Chautauqua, Comair, and Republic and I had no delays or problems of any type. The crews were as professional as any mainline, and the Compass crew were exceptional and did a good job minimizing a less than ideal situation.

Regionals, like all airlines, seem to be a mixed bag though the media tries to homogenize them as fly-by-night operations.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineAviationbuff08 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 346 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3269 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 9):
Unless you have specific evidence, I would say that you shouldn't be lumping all regionals together.

That was not my intent.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 9):
Regionals, like all airlines, seem to be a mixed bag though the media tries to homogenize them as fly-by-night operations.

Well that maybe true, although I don't need to view a regional from the point of view of the media. My brother and I both work for a regional airline. I am hardly an outsider to the operations of a regional airline operations.

The point I was trying to make is that since this past winter the FAA has been all over regional airlines attempting to prove to congress, and the general public that the FAA is doing something to improve air safety. I've come across more FAA inspectors in the past 6 months than I have in the last 3 years. If the FAA wanted to improve air safety they would implement more of the NTSB recommendations that they have ignored for years. But that is another issue.

[Edited 2009-08-01 04:52:36]

User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3383 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3178 times:



Quoting Bhmdiversion (Reply 6):
Pinnacle is the newer version of Mesa, when it comes to MX. They are terrible. Planes fly with dents over a year old, scratches, gouges, you name it...

I'm curious what the deal with APU's on 9E is. Rarely a day goes by that we don't need to do an airstart here in my city (we have 3 9E flights daily).

Quoting Aviationbuff08 (Reply 8):
This allows the dispatcher to insert the "on time" regardless whether it was true or not..

Also, why is the policy of not leaving more than :05 early in effect? I can see if you're going to a somewhere like LGA, but...



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineToltommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3288 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3142 times:



Quoting NWAESC (Reply 11):
I'm curious what the deal with APU's on 9E is. Rarely a day goes by that we don't need to do an airstart here in my city (we have 3 9E flights daily).

When 9E was still flying in here, we'd get phone calls almost daily asking if we could do an airstart.... Answer was always the same (no, don't have the equipment), but we'd get a call the next day asking the same....

We took some cancellations due to crew while they were here. For a while it was a common occurrence every Tuesday. You could count on it like clockwork. Got to the point that NWA was subbing a Saab in to protect the passengers.

The 9E crews were great, but their dispatch has room for improvement.


User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3889 posts, RR: 28
Reply 13, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3098 times:

The 5 early rule is in effect because of gate issues in the hubs. If we leave theoutsration too early, we will get to the hub too early and end up sitting, taking up space whilewe wait for a gate. At Mesaba, a simple phone call to dispatch usually let's us leave earlier. As for apu issues... I know at mesaba we use ours sparingly and tend to baby them, unlike pinnacle who seems to constantly run them.

User currently offlineBrandonfs88 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 177 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3065 times:
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Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 13):
The 5 early rule is in effect because of gate issues in the hubs. If we leave theoutsration too early, we will get to the hub too early and end up sitting, taking up space whilewe wait for a gate. At Mesaba, a simple phone call to dispatch usually let's us leave earlier. As for apu issues... I know at mesaba we use ours sparingly and tend to baby them, unlike pinnacle who seems to constantly run them.

About 2 months ago we had this happen, they wanted to leave really early, so they left 20 min early. They arrived in DTW and waited for 25 min to get into the gate, a F/A non-reving was telling me the pax were pissed about it, they still got off the plane 15 min early when they finally pulled into the gate.


User currently offlineCrj200faguy From United States of America, joined May 2007, 400 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3056 times:



Quoting Aviationbuff08 (Reply 8):
That's rather easy to accomplish when they pull the breaker on the ACARS when they know they are going to be delayed. This allows the dispatcher to insert the "on time" regardless whether it was true or not.. This straight from a Pinnacle FO who was jump seating on another Carrier and just couldn't resist giving advice. Talk about spilling the company secrets.

I've never flown with anyone that concerned with getting out ontime. You listen to an FO on an RJ. A lot of them have the reliability of a FA.

Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 7):
Pinnacle more often than not, schedule their crews to the MAX duty times and the MIN rest requirements. When you mix that with mx and or weather delays, you have a major ripple in the system with crews requiring proper crew rest, thereby delaying flights. It's been this way for a long, long time and is unlikely to change any time soon.

At least we aren't swapping crews every other leg. If anyone was around Christmas 2004 you'd remember what a disaster that was.

Quoting Brandonfs88 (Reply 2):
It seems theres been more issues since Delta did the new pass policy where there getting screwed. I've noticed crews being more picky i guess when there doing there walk arounds

Are you saying that the things getting fixed aren't really broken? We're all just pissed that our flight benefits suck and are trying to destroy our company? If anything, MX delays screw up our day. We're running behind all day and end up with shorter rest, missed commutes, etc. Maybe you should think before you jump to conclusions.


User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3383 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3054 times:



Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 13):

Makes sense, I suppose.... It's just frustrating when you have departures stacked up on either side of them you need to get out of town, and have 3 guys tied up waiting for the clock to strike the magic hour... It only gets worse during de-icing season...

Quoting Brandonfs88 (Reply 14):
About 2 months ago we had this happen, they wanted to leave really early, so they left 20 min early.

I'd be happy to settle for much less than that...



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineCrj200faguy From United States of America, joined May 2007, 400 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3045 times:



Quoting NWAESC (Reply 16):
I'd be happy to settle for much less than that...

There are so many stations that ask us to leave early. The few times we get approval and I go to the gate and tell them to board now. They don't start boarding for another 10 minutes. What's the point in asking us to go early when you won't help us out? YWG is notorious for that. Got approval to leave 20 early and we wanted to start boarding 35 minutes prior. She didn't end up starting to board until 17 minutes prior. She asked us and was there when we got approval on ACARS 45 minutes before departure. She had 10 minutes until she needed to start boarding. Most CAs don't bother to ask anymore.


User currently offlineNwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3383 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3007 times:



Quoting Crj200faguy (Reply 17):
The few times we get approval and I go to the gate and tell them to board now. They don't start boarding for another 10 minutes.

Hmmm...

In our city, it's just the opposite...

We're no YWG.  Smile



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6449 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2906 times:

Still want to know what the Delta non-rev policies have to do with Pinnacle crews being unhappy.

User currently offlineDoug_or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3401 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2892 times:



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 19):
Still want to know what the Delta non-rev policies have to do with Pinnacle crews being unhappy.

Their benefits we unilaterally slashed. That made them unhappy.



When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6449 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (4 years 12 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2693 times:



Quoting Doug_or (Reply 20):
Their benefits we unilaterally slashed. That made them unhappy.

Did their non-rev privileges on Delta change? If yes, who changed them, Pinnacle or Delta? Are their privileges on Delta not the same as with every other carrier not having an ownership stake, ie: AA,UA,CO US etc?


User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3889 posts, RR: 28
Reply 22, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2642 times:

Yes... the PCL pass benefits changed dramatically! Delta changed them with the pass travel merge on June 23rd. Delta is at the helm here, since DCI benefits are dictated by mainline Delta, much like they did when NWA called the shots for Airlink. However I believe if PCL mgmt wanted to they could have fought for their employees.

DL has no ownership stake ASA/Skywest and Shuttle/Republic and their pass benefits are better. I believe only Freedom and Pinnacle share these awful pass benefits. It's more of a blow for PCL employees because now they only have DL benefits, whereas with Freedom, I believe since they are under the Mesa Air Group, they get benefits on the other carriers their parent company flies for. I could be wrong on that one though.

The PCL employees have a right to be angry, because they lost big in a benefit that many people value highly in this business. Even when NWA didn't have an ownership stake in PCL, the travel benefits mirrored Compass and Mesaba pass benefits. THis is just another blow to the employees that will drive already low morale even lower.


User currently offlineCrj200faguy From United States of America, joined May 2007, 400 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2585 times:



Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 22):
Yes... the PCL pass benefits changed dramatically! Delta changed them with the pass travel merge on June 23rd. Delta is at the helm here, since DCI benefits are dictated by mainline Delta, much like they did when NWA called the shots for Airlink. However I believe if PCL mgmt wanted to they could have fought for their employees.

DL has no ownership stake ASA/Skywest and Shuttle/Republic and their pass benefits are better. I believe only Freedom and Pinnacle share these awful pass benefits. It's more of a blow for PCL employees because now they only have DL benefits, whereas with Freedom, I believe since they are under the Mesa Air Group, they get benefits on the other carriers their parent company flies for. I could be wrong on that one though.

The PCL employees have a right to be angry, because they lost big in a benefit that many people value highly in this business. Even when NWA didn't have an ownership stake in PCL, the travel benefits mirrored Compass and Mesaba pass benefits. THis is just another blow to the employees that will drive already low morale even lower.

Thank you for being one of the only people who understand why everyone's pissed off. I am less than pleased but continually being pissed won't change our benefits. A lot of anetters say how we shouldn't complain because it's a privilege. True, but I sacrifice pay to get those benefits. Some people choose to take it out on other DCI people, Delta people, nonrevs and pax. I don't see the point in that and try to do a good job regardless of how little Delta values us. I just fly Airtran when I buy tickets.


User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6449 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (4 years 12 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2503 times:



Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 22):



Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 22):
Yes... the PCL pass benefits changed dramatically! Delta changed them with the pass travel merge on June 23rd. Delta is at the helm here, since DCI benefits are dictated by mainline Delta, much like they did when NWA called the shots for Airlink. However I believe if PCL mgmt wanted to they could have fought for their employees.

Exactly what are the pass privileges Pinnacle has on Delta that are causing all the negative feelings. How do they differ from what ASA/Skywest and Shuttle/Rebublic get on Delta? Do you think they should be the same as wholly owned Mesaba and Compass, and if so why?


25 Jetjeanes : I really think Dal will eventually like to get rid of mesa because of the lawsuit they lost and eventually dunp pinnacle.
26 Aviationbuff08 : I am wondering just how badly the pass benefits were changed on 23rd JUN? I know Comair and Mesaba are only allowed S3C on mainline flights, with no S
27 XPJets : As a 9E ground employee, we pay the $50 fee. The bigger changes were not boarding priority, but extras like parental travel (available only at ZED Hig
28 Bobnwa : How are they worse than what ASA and Republic get? Do you think Pinnacle employees ought to go ahead of Delta retirees? If yes, why?
29 Lexy : This is cool. My wife and I are scheduled to fly Pinnacle from ORD to DTW over the labor day weekend. Got ourselves a ride on a CRJ-900. I suppose the
30 XPJets : I have no issue with DL retirees boarding ahead of us, but DL/NW employees' kids traveling alone go on their parents' seniority dates, for one, which
31 IndyWA : Ummm...there is no ownership stake there, and how are Shuttle's pass benefits better? They are the same as all the other non-wholly owned. Or so I th
32 Floridaflyboy : Nope, we only pay $50 at the regionals. I know this is a touchy subject and I've done a lot of thinking on it. First, let me disclose that I'm not a
33 Mir : Yes, because they're active employees, and are actively creating money for the airline. If a retiree gets bumped, it's an inconvenience. If an active
34 Crj200faguy : I don't have as big of a problem with retirees going ahead of us as I do Delta parents going ahead of us. They have contributed 0 to the airline and
35 Crj200faguy : Do you work for Comair or Mesaba? Why exactly would they get rid of Pinnacle? We are near the top of DCI carriers in Completion factor, ontime and on
36 Lexy : Yeah, I just remembered that it's Mesaba I am flying and not Pinnacle. Eitherway, I do hope things work out for PInnacle. My apologies for the mix up
37 Sean-SAN- : Previous under NW, Pinnacle got unlimited international. Now it is one trip per year. Parent travel is basically eliminated. All while Delta touts on
38 Transpac787 : SkyWest, for better or for worse, fights for their employees. Don't blame Delta, blame your employer for them *accepting* such a horrible system. Jus
39 Sean-SAN- : Skywest had certain leverage when they negotiated their asa for the 700/900's. If DL didn't want them they could have gone else where. They also had l
40 Aviationbuff08 : Not true, ONLY Skywest employees get UA and DL pass benefits at the current time. ASA has only DL pass benefits. Just what would it cost an employee
41 Mir : And that's why people actually want to fly for them. -Mir
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