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DL To Cut Service To HHH  
User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3941 posts, RR: 27
Posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6196 times:

Mesaba announced yesterday that due to economic and operational reasons, they will be ending ATL-HHH (Hilton Head) service effective November 2. This also means Mesaba will close the HHH station contributing to MORE frontline layoffs. I guess you HHH visitors have to fly to SAV and drive now.

Also, DL/Mesaba will be ending the TLH-MCO and TPA service that was operated with saabs. The TLH-FLL service will continue with RJ service. The reasons here were cited as being the FL state gov't who is providing subsidy requested the service be discontinued due to the large sum of money that was being allocated for this intrastate service.

42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4491 posts, RR: 21
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6074 times:



Quoting Azjubilee (Thread starter):
I guess you HHH visitors have to fly to SAV and drive now.

I thought Piedmont still flew in Dash-8's.



I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1915 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6007 times:

So where else are the SAAB's going?

User currently offlineElpinDAB From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 479 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5979 times:



Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 2):
So where else are the SAAB's going?

Back to Sweden. 10 will leave starting in September. Their leases are up, and DL thinks it would be profitable to get rid of them than to keep them. Another 10 Saab leases will be up this winter, so from there, who knows. Despite the repainting effort, and new interiors, DL doesn't like it, apparently.

A Saab might make money and serves t-prop only markets, but for some reason, DL seems to like unprofitable, inefficient 50 seat jets. I don't know what their logic is. Care to enlighten me, and I'd love to hear.


User currently offlineElpinDAB From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 479 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5967 times:



Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 1):
I thought Piedmont still flew in Dash-8's.

yes, they do. The Dash 8 can perform better than the Saab out of HHH too, but it is operated by US Airways Ex, not DL, which is what this thread is about.


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6608 posts, RR: 24
Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5954 times:



Quoting Azjubilee (Thread starter):

Also, DL/Mesaba will be ending the TLH-MCO and TPA service that was operated with saabs.

No surprise here. These routes were already served by Gulfstream and there was no need for a 2nd carrier. The state of Florida was dumb to subsidize these routes.


User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3592 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5943 times:

The US Dash-8s will continue (6-8 times per day).

The problem is the HHH airport is only 4300 feet long with tall trees at both ends of the airport.

The Dash-8s are weight limited to about 75% load factor due to the runway and trees.

The DL Saab 340s are limited to 50% (17 out of 34 seats) into HHH and only 24 seats going out.

Hard to make a commercial flight work when the best load factor you can get (RT) is under 66%.

Hilton Head will not increase the runway length in the foreseeable future. I expect that eventually all commercial service will end to HHH. US will not leave of it's own accord, but eventually the NIMBYs will win the day.

In the next decade, I expect there will be a new airport built in southern Beaufort County that will handle the commercial traffic presently going to HHH.

[Edited 2009-07-31 17:43:48]

User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9435 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5943 times:



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 5):

IIRC Gulfstream and DCI were on the routes in 2008(?) right before Delta cut them last time around.



yep.
User currently offlineElpinDAB From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 479 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5931 times:



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 5):

No surprise here. These routes were already served by Gulfstream and there was no need for a 2nd carrier. The state of Florida was dumb to subsidize these routes.

Would you honestly rather fly on Gulfstream? (An airline that people PAY to work for, instead of an airline that selects their own pilots?)

If you book on Expedia, I guess you don't care until you board, but who would you rather fly...a 1st rate regional or a 3rd rate regional...


User currently offlineAndyGarrett From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5877 times:

Is it really worth the effort for Delta to run the Saabs out of Atlanta since most of the flight ops are jets? Wouldn't it make more sense to run regional service out of the likes of Cincinnati, Salt Lake City and Memphis with them ?

User currently offlineCrj200faguy From United States of America, joined May 2007, 400 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5436 times:

I thought Delta was overjoyed to be able to use the Saab. Now they're ditching a lot of them.

User currently offlineNwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3389 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5435 times:



Quoting AndyGarrett (Reply 9):
Wouldn't it make more sense to run regional service out of the likes of Cincinnati, Salt Lake City and Memphis with them?

...Or (back out of) MSP, or DTW... or...



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineSxf24 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1262 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5371 times:



Quoting Crj200faguy (Reply 10):
I thought Delta was overjoyed to be able to use the Saab. Now they're ditching a lot of them.

Every aircraft has its use. In the current economic environment, there may be fewer routes that can be profitably operated by the Saabs, particularly out of smaller bases.


User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10432 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5351 times:



Quoting ElpinDAB (Reply 3):
A Saab might make money and serves t-prop only markets, but for some reason, DL seems to like unprofitable, inefficient 50 seat jets. I don't know what their logic is. Care to enlighten me, and I'd love to hear.

Not necessarily......DL has stated in recent months that they will be REDUCING 50 seat jet flying.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineFlyAA757 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1012 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5249 times:

Let's not forget the dozens of CRJ's Delta has parked at CVG, and also in the desert...might be cheaper to use a less efficient parked airplane, since you're paying the lease anyway. By returning the Saabs, they at least reduce their capital expense.

User currently offlineAdamWright From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5219 times:

Genius decisions by Delta. Force ASA to ditch the ATRs that carry 45+ into HHH and replace it with a SAAB 30 seater that goes in half empty due to weight.

I really really would like to sit in on the Delta revenue/route structure meetings where they come up with these brilliant ideas.


User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3941 posts, RR: 27
Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5184 times:

Airlines don't keep fleets just to operate one city pair. While the ATR might have been a great plane for HHH, there was obviously a bigger reason to get rid of the fleet. Weight and balance issues were not unknown prior to the HHH service, therefore this Saab stuffjust proved to be an experiment. Nothing negative against the Saab or mesaba, but delta trying to squeeze a round peg into a square hole.

User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3592 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 5028 times:

With SAV only 45 minutes away and alot of DL mainline and RJ service to everywhere, the loss of HHH service is not a killer. A vast majority people going to and from HHH already use SAV anyway.

User currently offlineXdlx From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 658 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4746 times:



Quoting AdamWright (Reply 15):

Does anyone knows where those AT7 .... went!

Yes that decision was taken by an accountant with limited operational experience.


User currently offlineCbphoto From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1555 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4543 times:



Quoting ElpinDAB (Reply 3):
Back to Sweden. 10 will leave starting in September. Their leases are up, and DL thinks it would be profitable to get rid of them than to keep them. Another 10 Saab leases will be up this winter, so from there, who knows. Despite the repainting effort, and new interiors, DL doesn't like it, apparently.

Wow...so is Delta ditching 20 Saab 340s? If so, this can only mean more furloughs at XJ! Sad!!!



ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3941 posts, RR: 27
Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4364 times:

For the moment the plan is to return 10 saabs to Sweden starting this fall. Beyond that is pur speculation and anyones guess.

User currently offlineCbphoto From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1555 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4346 times:



Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 20):
for the moment the plan is to return 10 saabs to Sweden starting this fall. Beyond that is pur speculation and anyones guess

Thanks for the heads up!



ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
User currently offlineDL752 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 174 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4094 times:

Dang it!
The Saabs were a sight to see here in TPA.
Hopefully things will turn around for the better and DL can service these cities again.
DL752  Smile


User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10432 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3960 times:



Quoting AdamWright (Reply 15):
Force ASA to ditch the ATRs that carry 45+ into HHH and replace it with a SAAB 30 seater that goes in half empty due to weight.

Tunnel vision.

Quoting AdamWright (Reply 15):
I really really would like to sit in on the Delta revenue/route structure meetings where they come up with these brilliant ideas.

Yes, I'm surprised they haven't invited you by now.  Yeah sure



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineTLHFLA From United States of America, joined May 2003, 593 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (5 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3762 times:

How popular is HHH as an alternative to SAV? SAV is a nice facility that is pretty easily accessible from Hilton Head.


Bill in ATL
25 KarlB737 : Hopefully back to the Midwest where they came from. They are used there in the smaller markets sucessfully. Examples: MKG, FNT, APN, TOL, PLN, SAW, a
26 DLPMMM : A few hundred people per day into HHH max (out of thousands into SAV per day to Hilton Head). HHH is primarily a general aviation airport, with a lit
27 PSU.DTW.SCE : The problem with HHH is that the flights have to remain cost-competitive with SAV. DL using a half-full Saab cannot price flights competitively compar
28 ATCT : Gulfstream has a pretty good record in my book. I have flown them many times, each time with decent service and on time operations. I have flown Mesa
29 Mayor : Just out of curiosity, is HHH too close to SAV to qualify for EAS??
30 DLPMMM : There will be no local funding to provide service. There is a large percentage of the population on Hilton Head that want the airport closed, much le
31 Mayor : I think I can guess, but I'll ask, anyway. What particular objections do they have to the airport? Humor me.
32 Bhmdiversion : The ASA ATR-72's are sitting in HOT as of today. There were a couple that went to South America to fly for another carrier. HHH has a law in their cit
33 Mayor : Surely they could grant a waiver, for safety reasons. Or not.
34 DLPMMM : Noise (there are some expensive communities that have been built near the airport), NIMBY (see the first), moving an AME church that has been there f
35 Peachair : Does anyone have the Mesaba press release concerning this?
36 Mayor : Makes you wonder doesn't it? Was the airport already there before those people moved in? Probably. I can understand someone opposing the airport if t
37 MasseyBrown : About 30 miles, as the crow flies. SAV calls itself "Savannah Hilton Head International."
38 Rampguy : My question is how can you fly a Saab over the ocean? Are they certified to fly over water? How many fuel stops would it need to make? Who would fly
39 Doug_or : If it has wings it can fly over water. All that ETOPS gibber jabber you hear people going on about is only relevant to 121 ops (for profit airline fl
40 Silentbob : I don't think they will close that airport. There are enough well-connected people that fly into HHH that I can't see it ever being closed. Shut down
41 DLPMMM : Alot of the "well connected" would like a longer runway and wouldn't mind a 10 minute drive to Bluffon, but we will see. I didn't give a guatantee, b
42 Post contains links PSU.DTW.SCE : Mesaba won't issue a press release since this decision is entirely up to Delta. However airlines rarely issue a press release when they are ending ro
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