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QF A380s MSN47 And MSN50 Delayed Until Q4 2010  
User currently offlineAeroplaneFreak From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 539 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9995 times:
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A source from inside Airbus has reveled that MSN047 and MSN050 have been delayed delivery from early 2010 to late 2010. Qantas has requested this according to the source due to the GFC. A full detailed review is in the link below.

http://a380production.com/2009/08/3-3/

37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKL911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 5120 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (4 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9975 times:

Lack of cash like the BA case, or other reasons? What does it cost to delay delivery by so many months? Less then taking it an parking it at their 'home' ?


Next trip : DUB-AUH-CGK-DPS-KUL-AUH-CDG-ORK :-)
User currently offlineAeroplaneFreak From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9878 times:
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I guess as Hamburg is full and will remain full for a while it wont cost as much.

User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4627 posts, RR: 23
Reply 3, posted (4 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9616 times:

If you missed it, Qantas deferred a whole bunch of aircraft (A380s and 738s) until the end of 2010. The 787s were deferred to 2012 around the same, as the production delays were effecting Qantas' forward planning, so they pushed them way out.

They deferred everything for a year or more, to preserve cash flow during the downturn. It's not a lack of cash, but they are doing the best to preserve the cash in case it's needed in the next 12 months.

I imagine, and I am guessing, that Airbus wouldn't charge them to defer considering how late the aircraft are  

[Edited 2009-08-03 11:44:51]


I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlineN14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2694 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (4 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9503 times:

Haa! I told you, didn't I?
Recently, I asked if somebody knows why these two birds have engine covers on the backside of the engines, which I never had seen before:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/a380spotter/3661293998/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/a380spotter/3660476573/
http://www.pictaero.com/fr/pictures/picture,46797
and this is the answer.

One has to admit that in TLS there will be more widebodies stored than in Seattle.


User currently offlineAeroplaneFreak From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 9073 times:
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Yes we know about the Qantas defering but we assumed theu would deliver 47 and 50 and defer the 4 ones after that.

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 6, posted (4 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 9051 times:



Quoting AeroplaneFreak (Reply 5):
Yes we know about the Qantas defering but we assumed theu would deliver 47 and 50 and defer the 4 ones after that.

Exactly, this is the surprise.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineAeroplaneFreak From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 9035 times:
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I wonder if they will be stored with engines on or off. My bet is off?

User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (4 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8772 times:



Quoting AeroplaneFreak (Reply 7):
I wonder if they will be stored with engines on or off. My bet is off?

Storing an aircraft with the engine off make little sense. When the engines are removed all the fuel, pneumatic and hydraulic lines and the electrical connections have to be blocked and sealed individually to prevent contamination.

If you leave the engines on all you do is install the covers.

One additional concern, when all the engines are removed the weight and balance is off and the aircraft could be susceptible to tipping and shoring or jacking may be required.


User currently offlineGlobeEx From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 742 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (4 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8747 times:



Quoting KL911 (Reply 1):
What does it cost to delay delivery by so many months? Less then taking it an parking it at their 'home' ?

Well, that's not the thing. Storing them in the desert until you need them isn't the cost factor, why they don't take the plane. The main reasons are the following. 1st it might be harder to get the finance going during the EC right now. Or at least for the condition they wanted.

The second thing is. When you don't need the capacity but you take them but store them for a certain period you lose money. Aircrafts, if bought by airlines are still financed. When you can defer delivery and therefore the financing of the plane (let it cost 200 million, even though QF probably pays les for their A380) for lets say a year (as an example) and you had a interestrate of lets say 5% (just asuming that) you would save 10million in interest rates.

GlobeEx



As you may presently yourself be fully made aware of, my grammar sucks.
User currently offlineAeroplaneFreak From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8574 times:
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Well it will be for around 7-8 months storage.

User currently offlineAeroplaneFreak From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8109 times:
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And where will they store them the flightline will be getting busy very shortley.

User currently offlineGlobeEx From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 742 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (4 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8031 times:



Quoting AeroplaneFreak (Reply 11):
And where will they store them the flightline will be getting busy very shortley.

Well, Airbus might indeed send aircrafts to the desert as well. I don't have an idea, how much of parking space they have in Hamburg and Toulouse which is actually owned by Airbus and not the airport (company). So if the parking space is getting little (if a lot more airlines defer delivery) they will most probably have to send some aircrafts to the desert as, it will be far cheaper to park them there than parking then on a european airport. However, due to marketing dont expect them to send a A380 there, but rather send an A330/340 or some 320 if ramp space is getting little. Just imagine the headline with the bad researched journalism: "First A380 already stored in the desert".



As you may presently yourself be fully made aware of, my grammar sucks.
User currently offlineThegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 7918 times:

I would still have thought that QF would be better off accepting delivery of these birds, don't they have about the same trip cost as a 744? By shuffling the deck (A380 replaces 744 to LAX/LHR, 744 replaces 767 SYD/MEL-PER, 767 replaces 734 SYD/MEL/BNE-NZ and SYD-BNE) and retiring some 734s you get rid of your worst aircraft, and don't have to pay for a deferral, which I wouldn't presume is free.

User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (4 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 7905 times:

What it makes me wonder is how much it costs to operate a trip with a 380 compared to a 747. SQ seems to be saying not much different, so you would think with that equation QF might as well take them and pension off a couple of 747s because you never know, folk might line up like a shoal of sardines. And if I have been reading the Astute one correctly, these are going to perform a bit better than the SQ frames for which data are available.

In which case, they might be more trying to reserve cash, but I cannot imagine Airbus having striven mightily to complete them is just saying well don't you worry, she'll be right mate, whenever!! I doubt it.


User currently offlineAeroplaneFreak From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 7746 times:
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Qantas may just keep a few 744s a while longer.

User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 16, posted (4 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 7706 times:



Quoting AeroplaneFreak (Reply 15):
Qantas may just keep a few 744s a while longer.

But why is the question.


User currently offlineAeroplaneFreak From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 7680 times:
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Yes true I guess. Will be interesting to see there actions.

User currently offlineBrons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3007 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (4 years 11 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7599 times:



Quoting N14AZ (Reply 4):
One has to admit that in TLS there will be more widebodies stored than in Seattle.

I dunno, there's gonna be quite a few 7-late-7's sitting around. But that's nobody's fault but Boeing's.



Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
User currently offlineThegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 11 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7416 times:



Quoting AeroplaneFreak (Reply 15):
Qantas may just keep a few 744s a while longer.

That's not in question. They have IIRC 9 birds which are a bit under a decade old, and wouldn't be completely amortised. Besides, 20 A380s don't replace 30 744s.

Once you keep 9 aircraft, you need to keep crew training for that type so you have some incentive to hang on to some others to make it an economic fleet.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 16):
But why is the question.

What else would it fly BNE-LAX, SYD-SFO, SYD-JNB, SYD-EZE? More A380s? Possibly 787s when they arrive.

Also, AKL-LAX and SYD-HKG I would expect to keep seeing some 744s.


User currently offlineJetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 11 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7318 times:



Quoting Baroque (Reply 16):
Quoting AeroplaneFreak (Reply 15):
Qantas may just keep a few 744s a while longer.


But why is the question.

1. Hoping the resale market for used 744s may improve
2. Saving the lease payments on new A380s
3. Waiting until pax demand improves



Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlineAeroplaneFreak From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 11 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7244 times:
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Downside is no new routes for a while.

User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3374 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (4 years 11 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 7189 times:

The only scenario I can think is that:

- Older 744s are fully paid off so keeping them costs nothing extra
- Second hand values for 744s (especially for freighter conversions have hit the floor)
- A388 may cost similar in fuel costs to a 744 to run (I thought it was a little more?) but landing costs and number of crew are higher
- They'd be paying the payments on the A388s anyway whether they use them or not
- Cost of training new pilots to be A380 rated may be factor also

It looks marginal to me but there is posisbly just a case to pay for a plane and not use it straight away - I'm guessing thought the moment the 744s need some big maint they'll be on the phone to TLS


"You know those planes we bought a while back, can you clean the bird cr@p off them and dig them out of the back of the parking lot we need them now!" Big grin


User currently offlineThegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 11 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 7020 times:



Quoting AeroplaneFreak (Reply 21):
Downside is no new routes for a while.

I actually don't see the upside of this decision, unless by some stuff up, they can defer payment and not pay any interest/leasing charge by storing the A380s???


User currently offlineAeroplaneFreak From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 11 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 6813 times:
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Will they store them in Toulouse or elsewhere. My guess is TLS.

25 PM : Well, it'll help Airbus hit delivery targets in 2010!
26 Sydscott : Cash, cash and cash. It's obviously more expensive to bring a new A380 into the fleet at present than it is to keep an older 744, that they can't fin
27 Travelhound : I don't think used 744's are worth much at the moment, so it might be more advantages to keep them flying for an extra 6-18 months than sending over
28 TaromA380 : Remember how airlines aligned for receiving penalities for A380's being late, back in 2006. There was the source of the legend "Airbus is giving A330
29 Rbgso : Good question, and one I am sure Boeing is also facing wth the 787. I wonder how much hardball both A and B are willing to play when it is the custom
30 AeroplaneFreak : I have contacted my source about this, will get back to you.
31 Starrion : Another arguement in favor of the 744, might be that QF isn't interested in adding capacity at the moment.
32 Astuteman : Me too - I reckon 7%-8%+ is nearer for the birds currently flying. But it will be reducing... It is a fascinating question this, isn't it? I can't im
33 Ikramerica : Well, look at BA. They want to delay paying Boeing. But Boeing hasn't even started building BA's planes and have a lot of angry customers who still w
34 Ken777 : What are the yields for QF thee days? I would bet they are below original expectations and on more than a few routes QF would be happy filling a 787,
35 Post contains links AeroplaneFreak : MSN047 has made its first flight before being put into storage. http://a380production.com/2009/08/6-3/
36 Thegeek : They've said that they are taking a hit on the yields, but their load factors aren't too bad. Still easily over 80% for international IIRC. Regarding
37 Baroque : There goes another theory!! All a mystery wrapped in an enigma and covered in radar absorbing paint. And QF is about as informative to its shareholde
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