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EK Aircraft Changes For SYD, SFO  
User currently offlineEmiratesUK From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 288 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 15572 times:

Hi all,

Whilst having a browse at EK schedules for next year I have noticed a couple of changes..!

SYD:
EK414 changes from a A345 to a 77L
EK 414 P4 A2 J7 C7 I0 Y9 O9 E9 R0 W0*DXBSYD 0140 2230 77L

SFO:
EK225 - changes from 77L to 77W
EK 225 P4 A0 J7 C7 I0 Y9 O9 E9 R9 W9*DXBSFO 0855 1255 77W

I'm sure there are more but these are the ones I noticed. INteresting to see SFO change to a 77W as this is a capacity increase and also I didnt think the 77W could do DXB-SFO?! without a load penalty anyway.


EK A380 Private suite - Here I come!!
64 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 15305 times:



Quoting EmiratesUK (Thread starter):
I'm sure there are more but these are the ones I noticed. INteresting to see SFO change to a 77W as this is a capacity increase and also I didnt think the 77W could do DXB-SFO?! without a load penalty anyway.

77L excels when you need to carry tons of cargo along with pax. EK probably thinks pax load is high but cargo load is low, so 77W with penalty is worth more than 77L at MTOW.

For the record, CX operates 2x JFK-HKG on 77W (the nonstops, a 3rd one via YVR), which is 7014nm. DXB-SFO is only another 27nm.


User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4784 posts, RR: 43
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 15181 times:

These changes are effective Oct 26th 2009 and are now loaded in SABRE.

This means the SFO B 77L is being used to SYD but where will the A 345s (used currently for SYD) be re-deployed to?


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12466 posts, RR: 37
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 15177 times:

It will be interesting to see what use they make of their 345s over the Winter, especially with 'ERG returning to line service by the end of November.

User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13110 posts, RR: 100
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 14871 times:
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Quoting MogandoCI (Reply 1):
For the record, CX operates 2x JFK-HKG on 77W (the nonstops, a 3rd one via YVR), which is 7014nm. DXB-SFO is only another 27nm.

Also recall the 77W has a recent slight range increase. IIRC from 7880nm to 7930nm. While 50nm is normally in the noise, it will improve the DXB-SFO economics. Only a little more range required to make it to LAX!  hyper 

If SFO keeps doing well, I wonder if in ~2012 it will go A388.  spin 

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 3):
It will be interesting to see what use they make of their 345s over the Winter, especially with 'ERG returning to line service by the end of November.

That it will. I wonder if they are being moved to shorter routes due to fuel burn. Personally, I think its a sub-type ready to be shown the door. Alas, who would buy them? Resale has to be really poor right now.

Note: this is just building on my opinion that EK has too many aircraft/seating configurations types for the missions its flying. I just do not see the fleet planning hassle/need for 77A's, 773's, 77E's, 77W's, 77L's, A332's, A343's, A345's, and A388's. Most have multiple seating configurations too! I would like to see the 77A, 77E's, A343's, and A345's replaced with a mix of 77W's and A333's. Yea... market resale and lease obligations would slow the transition. But in my opinion, its just too many different types and seating configurations for the best fleet planning.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineEk-a380 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 164 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 14690 times:

Maybe they will use the A345 on the 3rd daily early bird to/from MAN?

So many rumours about this 3rd daily but as yet nothing released... it must be one of the longest rumours going... wish they would let us know either way what their plans are for MAN and also Pakistan (except KHI)


User currently onlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19227 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 14657 times:



Quoting Ek-a380 (Reply 5):
what their plans are for Pakistan (except KHI)

No doubt they will increase frequencies to LHE, ISB, and PEW when they get permission! It is highly restricted.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8016 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 13425 times:

I wonder does EK have a technical stop between DXB and SFO while flying westbound with a 77W. Is it possible EK could use SNN as such a refueling stop?

User currently offlineBjwonline From UK - England, joined Mar 2007, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 13353 times:

SYD has not been seeing the A345 since the A380 services started.

It now alternates between A380 and 77L for the DXB nonstop and daily 77W for one-stop (BKK).


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25300 posts, RR: 22
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 13261 times:



Quoting RayChuang (Reply 7):
I wonder does EK have a technical stop between DXB and SFO while flying westbound with a 77W.

Highly unlikely. CX has been operating the 77W for months JFK-HKG nonstop (7014 nm) which is almost the same distance as DXB-SFO (7041 nm).

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 7):
s it possible EK could use SNN as such a refueling stop?

If they ever did have to make a fuel stop, they would be more likely to stop at a point in Canada like YEG/YYC/YVR much closer to the great circle route than SNN. The usual routing westbound from DXB to SFO often passes very close to the North Pole and doesn't even cross Europe.

DXB-SFO nonstop great circle 7041 nm
DXB-YVR-SFO 7044 nm
DXB-YEG-SFO 7077 nm
DXB-YYC-SFO 7084 nm
DXB-SNN-SFO 7678 nm

Eastbound flights usually take somewhat more southerly routings to benefit from jetstream tailwinds.


User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5331 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 12829 times:



Quoting Bjwonline (Reply 8):
It now alternates between A380 and 77L for the DXB nonstop and daily 77W for one-stop (BKK).

It has been a daily A380 since May.

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 2):
This means the SFO B 77L is being used to SYD but where will the A 345s (used currently for SYD) be re-deployed to?

PER was surposed to go 77W for 1 service but will now stay A345, thats I'd imagine the 2 aircraft that would have originally gone to SYD.


User currently offlineLACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4017 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 12051 times:
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How are EK's loads from SFO & LAX-DXB? I'm interested to know how the premium cabins are doing. I'm sure Y is holding it's own on a strong note with a great deal of connections to India? True?

User currently offlineGlobetraveller From Germany, joined Apr 2008, 379 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 11999 times:



Quoting LACA773 (Reply 11):
How are EK's loads from SFO & LAX-DXB? I'm interested to know how the premium cabins are doing. I'm sure Y is holding it's own on a strong note with a great deal of connections to India? True?

I know this is not SFO & LAX, but I recently flew on the DXB-IAH route and the aircraft was 100% full in all classes. In fact, I later learned that the flight was overbooked and that this was happening quite often over the past few weeks.

Globetraveller


User currently offlineAznMadSci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3666 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 11957 times:



Quoting LACA773 (Reply 11):
How are EK's loads from SFO & LAX-DXB?

Yeah, I'm curious too. A member on the IAHSpotters reported for the first half of the year, EK had an average load factor of 74% to IAH and 75% from IAH. Not bad considering QR for the first half of the year had an average load factor of 64% to IAH and 72% from IAH. How are SFO and LAX doing, and also JFK due to the downgrade from the A380?



The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlineLACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4017 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 11788 times:
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Quoting Globetraveller (Reply 12):
I know this is not SFO & LAX, but I recently flew on the DXB-IAH route and the aircraft was 100% full in all classes. In fact, I later learned that the flight was overbooked and that this was happening quite often over the past few weeks.

Globetraveller

I believe these are very different markets. IAH is filled with lots of people in the oil business while SFO & LAX I would think do not.


User currently offlineDesertFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 515 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 11699 times:

I will miss seeing the 77L at SFO since it is my favorite 777, but it's great to know the route is doing well. When I'm at SFO it seems to be lots of families on the flight.

User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6140 posts, RR: 23
Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 9718 times:

I have to agree, I'll miss the 77L as well. SFO seems to be turning into a 77W mecca. Specially when CX eventually deploys them here.

SFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineEmiratesUK From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 288 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 9683 times:

One of the JNB flight is changing to a A345

JNB:
EK765 changes from a 77W to A345
EK 765 P4 A0 J7 C7 I7 Y9 O9 E9 R9 W9*DXBJNB 1440 2050 345



EK A380 Private suite - Here I come!!
User currently offlineFlyEmirates From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 9610 times:

DXB/SFO flight is being sold as 270 seats in Y class out of a capacity of 304
SFO/DXB flight is being sold as 290 seats in Y class out of a capacity of 304


User currently offlineOjas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2975 posts, RR: 24
Reply 19, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 9590 times:

Effectively more passengers will be flying than the - LR.


A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineAtomsareenough From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 566 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 9585 times:

Quoting DesertFlyer (Reply 15):
I will miss seeing the 77L at SFO since it is my favorite 777, but it's great to know the route is doing well. When I'm at SFO it seems to be lots of families on the flight.



Quoting DesertFlyer (Reply 15):
I have to agree, I'll miss the 77L as well. SFO seems to be turning into a 77W mecca. Specially when CX eventually deploys them here.

Yeah, the 77L is my favorite too, and EK is the only airline to ever operate one to SFO (besides the Boeing test aircraft that came several years back). We get 77W's aplenty though.... SQ, BR, JL, NH... and 9W until they terminated service several months ago.

Maybe someday, if the economy picks back up, AI will bring in a 77L?

[Edited 2009-08-08 10:19:44]

[Edited 2009-08-08 10:20:42]

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25346 posts, RR: 49
Reply 21, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 9465 times:

Here is the available LF data from DOT for these routes.

LAX
Oct08 - 51.7%
Nov08 - 71.9%
Dec08 - 83.2%
Jan09 - 92.6%

SFO
Dec08 - 59.0%
Jan09 - 89.2%

I dont believe there is much doubt amongst anyone that EK can be quite successful in these markets thanks to the shear numbers of onward connectivity opportunities it can offer beyond DXB. I know sales reps for BA have noted to me that EK has definitely had an effect on its West Coast traffic make up.

In the longer terms I definitely see LAX also becoming a A380 destination as the carrier has hinted at this already few times, unless it alternately decides to run additionally frequencies with the 77L.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineLXA340 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 2122 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9375 times:



Quoting RayChuang (Reply 7):
I wonder does EK have a technical stop between DXB and SFO while flying westbound with a 77W. Is it possible EK could use SNN as such a refueling stop?

EK will not deploy the B77W if they need to make a fuel stop, this route is meant to be operated non stop.


User currently offlineSuper80DFW From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 1694 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 9215 times:

Wow, good SFO. Obviously means it's working out well for them. Has EK taken a hit at IAH with QR's entrance into the middle eastern market?


"Things change, friends leave, life doesn't stop for anybody." -- EAT'EM UP EAT'EM UP KSU!!
User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 24, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9165 times:

I must say I'm surprised ... it seems like SFO is outperforming LAX for EK. I thought LAX would be a better performer hands-down.

Could this be due to greater competition at LAX? Or is the competition really that much different at LAX than SFO? I can think of the same basic makeup of carriers ... QF, BA, CX, KE, SQ ....



"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
25 LAXintl : I don't think a matter that SFO is doing better then LA, but more that SFO is slightly closer and reachable wth a 77W then LA is. As FlyEmirates poste
26 Lightsaber : Not that surprising. The only destination in North America I can see paying for 2X daily 77L service would be IAH. Does anyone know where IAH passeng
27 Ojas : Other than BLR, QR covers all major connections that EK do. EK connects well to DAC as well as CMB which QR does not. So barring BLR,DAC,CMB QR is at
28 Ssides : Most connections are to India, although there's also a fair amount of traffic to Saudi, Kuwait, etc. Don't forget, though, there's quite a bit of O&D
29 Caliatenza : I just flew into india today from LAX on EK. Loads were almost 100% in all classes from what i could tell. It would be great to see the 77W at LAX, bu
30 Lightsaber : That would imply Y was over-booked and J wasn't selling. Or do you have super-double platinum status with EK? Lightsaber
31 AirIndia : but he said So yes, Y over booked, but J was decent too.........
32 LACA773 : I had a feeling they were going to do very well out of LAX just for the fact of the convienent connections to India. Do they serve two hot meals and
33 Eisenbach : too bad, I was looking forward flying the 345 in March 2010 on flight EK415 from SYD to DXB
34 Caliatenza : Nope, im a first timer on EK. But i am a Skywards blue member. Indeed, another fellow that i spoke with on the plane was upgraded as well. There may
35 Behramjee : and what about cargo?
36 Pellegrine : One would think a grand total of 0 revenue cargo if they are blocking seats. Pax+bags only.
37 Lightsaber : Interesting... I'm not sure what to make about your upgrade, so I'll just file it as a *factoid*. Bad wording on my part. I should have said: "Y was
38 Pellegrine : Well 100pax+bags on SQ's A345 aren't going to weigh more than 30,000 lbs. 270 pax+bags will be more like 70-80,000 lbs. depending on bags...this airc
39 Caliatenza : hey im not complaining, i may not get to expierence ANY business class again for a long time and seeing as this was my first time in the premium cabi
40 Ojas : SQ,EY.
41 AirIndia : EY...? from LAX to India.........
42 Astuteman : I'm struggling to see any definition of "even SFO is out of A388 range" that doesn't also make "SFO out of 773ER range" too. If I take 7 500Nm Still-
43 Lightsaber : In my opinion Airbus has shaved the fitting allowance for the A388 a bit too much. Thus, I subtract a bit from the payload as I do not see the airlin
44 SQ_EK_freak : My guess would be no, way too many premium seats on that bird for MAN. Yes lots and lots of connections to India like the SFO and JFK flights. Premiu
45 Astuteman : Hell.... I'll remember in future to either not question you or not read your response after two glasses of wine But I think I see where you're coming
46 Flighty : Call me a cynic, but some EK stations will not be able to vacuum up enough people to justify the A380, because it would run at 50% load factor if the
47 Lightsaber : I strongly recommend upping the wine content. Please question me my friend. But my personality (and job) is to ask the "5 whys" to ensure something w
48 Pellegrine : Something tells me that it may be more than 7500nm still air equivalent, since the DXB-SFO route is many times south of the GC and taking into accoun
49 Caliatenza : exactly...and for sure i know there was someone else other than me who got op-uped. There may have been others. Hey guys im sorry i couldnt do a trip
50 Flighty : Lightsaber, maybe but it is not so tidy. CO also has good load factors on their 777 fleet but that does not mean an A380 would "thus" be more profitab
51 Caliatenza : I think if the A380 is put on the LAX route, there will be no need for another daily. If the LR stays, they may need a second flight...maybe one that
52 Post contains links Lightsaber : I agree the A388 isn't for every airline nor every route (even if the airline operates A388s). However, EK has been able to garner sufficient You mak
53 Caliatenza : If the EK flight leaves LAX at 9:30 pm, then what time will it get into DXB?
54 Lightsaber : Since its leaving about 5 hours later, it should arrive 5 hours later or instead of arriving at 19:40, it would be about 01:00 DXB time. This would a
55 Astuteman : I think it's fair to say that most airines configurations exceed the manufacturers OEW assumptions by a little bit. I'm not sure why the A380 should
56 Lightsaber : Airbus lowered the fitting allowance late in the game. I'll have to find a link. Hence my assumption on the payload/range impact. Not enough to post
57 LAXintl : LAX always has gates -- The 22 over-flow remote spots can certainly be used by EK.
58 Caliatenza : yep, like its used by the other asian carriers during the nightly international push. Getting in DXB at 1 am may be ideal for most connections except
59 Lightsaber : Obviously, they just need more India bilateral rights.
60 AirIndia : most connections to indian destinations will suit a 1am arrival in DXB - [Edited 2009-08-12 21:32:41]
61 Ojas : add to the above KHI 0130hrs daily ( for this the LAX flight could arrive at 0015 hrs) ISB 0330hrs 1,5 LHE 0340 hrs 6 PEW 0305 hrs 2,4 DAC 0145 hrs 1,
62 Astuteman : Most weights get finalised one way or another late on in the "game", though - the reduction may have been based on intelligence, rather than a lame a
63 CaliAtenza : i know one of the DXB-BLR flights leaves DXB at 9:45 pm (which is the one i took). I wasnt aware there was another one at 3:30 am.
64 AirIndia : Theres another at 1130am 6 weekly (except saturdays)
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