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CO BF Flat Bed Installation.  
User currently offlineAa2mm From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 119 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4148 times:

I just got off a CO flight yesterday. In the inflight magazine, Keller is announcing the introduction of the flat bed BF seats in 2009 ( no exact date given ), and it mentions only on the 772ER, and the 752. No mention of the 764ER or the 762ER. And the 738/739 : are they waiting for LiveTV ?
Any CO insiders can help with the infos ? To me, the current BF seats on the 772 really suck, and it gets worst with the 764 and the pits is the 752. But sure is nice to get the 752 on a domestic flight. Cool AVOD ( smaller screen then the 772, less selections ).
Thanks

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineNws2002 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 897 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4073 times:

The new seat was supposed to be introduced with the 787, obviously it will have to be before that now with all the delays. The last I heard they were going to start install this fall on the 772.

My understanding is that it will not fit on the 767, at least not without giving up capacity. They are looking at other options for that aircraft.

The new seat will not be installed on any of the 737s or the 753 since it is limited to intl configured aircraft.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16870 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4052 times:

It was announced the 767-400s will get the new BF lie flat seats and AVOD , they'll be a little different than the ones going into the 777-200ER and 757-200s.

The 737-700s, 737-800s, 737-900s, 737-900ERs and 757-300s will all receive LIve Tv.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineAznMadSci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3670 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4046 times:

It's been mentioned that the 772s and 752s will be among the first to get the new BF seat along with the 787s, whenever they enter the fleet.

Quoting Nws2002 (Reply 1):
My understanding is that it will not fit on the 767, at least not without giving up capacity. They are looking at other options for that aircraft.

This is true for the 762, while the 764 will probably be among the last to get the new BF seat and maintain the 2-1-2 configuration. Otherwise, there was word that both the 764 and 762 may get the current angled lie-flat BF seat.



The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlineFUN2FLY From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1045 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3978 times:

CO stated that the fall of 2009 772's will begin install. The two Q2 2010 772's will have them when delivered. Don't know the 752/764 rollout schedule although I think I remember reading that all units will be complete by the end of 2011.

User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5822 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3730 times:



Quoting Aa2mm (Thread starter):
To me, the current BF seats on the 772 really suck, and it gets worst with the 764 and the pits is the 752. But sure is nice to get the 752 on a domestic flight.

I think to say that they "really suck" is quite a bit of exaggeration. I find them VERY comfortable... just not flat, and moreso, angled toward the floor when fully "almost flat".

Regarding the 752: make up your mind. The seats are "The pits" and "nice" at the same time? Apparently, your posterior is comfortable in seat X between EWR and SFO, yet uncomfortable in seat X between EWR and MAN???
Odd.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19708 posts, RR: 58
Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3613 times:

Having a mixed product like that on A/C designed to fly similar missions is a poor business choice unless they're planning on eliminating the 767's, and it appears that they are not for now. Thus, it is good to hear that the 767's will get them. Mr. Bethune taught them to run a good business there at CO.

If a customer pays you for what you state will be a Business Class sleeper and then there's an equipment change and it's an old seat, that customer is going to be unhappy with his experience, regardless of what it says he's entitled to in the contract. So outfitting all A/C that might fly a given route is a good policy.


User currently offlineExFATboy From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2974 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3525 times:



Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 5):
Regarding the 752: make up your mind. The seats are "The pits" and "nice" at the same time? Apparently, your posterior is comfortable in seat X between EWR and SFO, yet uncomfortable in seat X between EWR and MAN???
Odd.

I think it's not so much a matter of "butt in seat" time as whether or not you're trying to sleep - most of the 752s used domestically or to the Caribbean are daytime flights, while the trans-Atlantic runs like EWR-MAN, EWR-BRS, etc., are overnights. Personally, I sleep just as well if not better in the current BF seats than in a "full-flat", but a lot of people don't, I guess.


User currently offlineAA2MM From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 119 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3517 times:

What about my statement that is a contradiction : a domestic flight on the 752 is great while an internationl flight on it, the seats are really poor. Can you understand the difference between the Y1 fare which allows you to upgrade at purchase from YC into FC on the SFO EWR flight that you mention ( $1546 round trip ) and the range of business class fares of from $1925 for a round trip with 21 days in advance purchase, to a walk up fare of $7833 !
About the comfort of the seats on the 772s, hey, if it works for you great. Guess it does not work for most of us, the others out here who are dying waiting to have CO install the new flat bed seats. Why do you think that AA is almost finishing installing the angle flat beds on their 763s and 772s ? And UA is almost completing their version of front/back facing flat beds on their 774s and will move on to all their 772s and 763s ? And DL also. I am talking about the US airlines only now.
Hey, to each his own. That's why this country is so great. I am entitled to mine, you to yours
Cheers. Safe flying.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21531 posts, RR: 59
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 month 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3498 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
Having a mixed product like that on A/C designed to fly similar missions is a poor business choice unless they're planning on eliminating the 767's.

Right. That's why DL and AA also have different products planned for different aircraft that will fly on the same routes. Why SQ has different J and F/R products on the 77W and A380 (J is similar, F/R quite different).

It's called putting the product that works the best on the aircraft you have. 757s, 767s and 777s are very different aircraft in terms of cabin width, and to maximize revenue, you need to space the products as efficiently as possible.

If that means staggered seats on the 764ER and heringbone on the 77L for DL, that's what they will do.

If that means the 777, 787 and 757 gets one product at CO but the 767 gets a modified product, that' what they'll do.

If that means that the pitch, width and sleeping angle of the J seat on the 77W is different than on the A380 for SQ, that's what they'll do.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineAA2MM From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 119 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3193 times:

Perhaps CO can adopt the new DL flat bed seats configuration on their 764ER of
1-2-1 ( instead of the current CO config of 2-1-2 ).
See the link from Carfield on his TR on the new Delta 764. Go to the second page and the pics of the new seats are there. Enjoy.
http://share.shutterfly.com/share/re...c4979626beca3eb&sid=8QbNHDNy5bqOOw


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32783 posts, RR: 72
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3156 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 9):
That's why DL and AA also have different products planned for different aircraft that will fly on the same routes.

AA does not, unless by "different" product you mean the difference between 2- and 3-class.

All international 752s, 763s and 772s have the same seat - albeit the seat is 1 inch narrower
with removable IFE units in the 763.

Quoting AA2MM (Reply 8):
Why do you think that AA is almost finishing installing the angle flat beds on their 763s and 772s ?

Been finished for about a year.



a.
User currently offlineCopter808 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1089 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3156 times:

I have never had a problem with the current CO Business class seats. Although not "lie flat" in relation to the floor, probably are close to lie flat in relation to the earth's surface. Most airliners have a nose up attitude during cruise flight.

User currently offlineSt530 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2920 times:



Quoting AA2MM (Reply 10):
Perhaps CO can adopt the new DL flat bed seats configuration on their 764ER of
1-2-1 ( instead of the current CO config of 2-1-2 ).
See the link from Carfield on his TR on the new Delta 764. Go to the second page and the pics of the new seats are there. Enjoy.
http://share.shutterfly.com/share/re...bqOOw

CO has said (or at least CO insiders on a.net have said) they don't want to give up capacity with any new configuration. Can they squeeze 35 seats in the current 764 BF section with DL's 1-2-1 config?


User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8902 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2851 times:



Quoting St530 (Reply 13):
CO has said (or at least CO insiders on a.net have said) they don't want to give up capacity with any new configuration. Can they squeeze 35 seats in the current 764 BF section with DL's 1-2-1 config?

Given that both Business cabins on DL and CO 764s (the Atlantic ones) run from doors 1 to 2, it would be an increase in capacity. CO has 35 seats up there, while DL has 40 seats in their 1-2-1. Due to the staggered seats, DL also has 5 inches more pitch in their BusinessElite cabin on the 767-400 with lie-flats.


User currently offlineSt530 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2825 times:



Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 14):
Given that both Business cabins on DL and CO 764s (the Atlantic ones) run from doors 1 to 2, it would be an increase in capacity. CO has 35 seats up there, while DL has 40 seats in their 1-2-1. Due to the staggered seats, DL also has 5 inches more pitch in their BusinessElite cabin on the 767-400 with lie-flats.

Indeed, you're right. Although looking at the seat maps on seatguru.com, it looks like CO would have to junk the two lavatories in front of row 1 to make this work.


User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8902 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2690 times:



Quoting St530 (Reply 15):
Indeed, you're right. Although looking at the seat maps on seatguru.com, it looks like CO would have to junk the two lavatories in front of row 1 to make this work.

Even if they wanted to keep those two lavs and the galley there, you take out one row and operate a 9 row BF section - which comes out to 36 seats, so CO would still come out ahead by increasing capacity.


User currently offlineAznMadSci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3670 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2633 times:



Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 16):
Even if they wanted to keep those two lavs and the galley there, you take out one row and operate a 9 row BF section - which comes out to 36 seats, so CO would still come out ahead by increasing capacity.

The vendor rep for the new BF seat that was at CO DO IV said the airline would maintain the 2-1-2 staggered configuration. I'm pretty sure that once the 764s start getting the upgrade, it would also mean the end of the Hawaii-767 configuration that has the smaller BF cabin.



The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlineNZdsgnr From New Zealand, joined Jul 2008, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2580 times:



Quoting AA2MM (Reply 10):
Perhaps CO can adopt the new DL flat bed seats configuration on their 764ER of
1-2-1 ( instead of the current CO config of 2-1-2 ).
See the link from Carfield on his TR on the new Delta 764. Go to the second page and the pics of the new seats are there. Enjoy.
http://share.shutterfly.com/share/re...bqOOw

on a side note, that config is great. why do the seats need to look so drab.
i believe it is the same (or very close) seat design as SWISS and what a different feel http://www.swiss.com/web/EN/services...s/first_class.aspx?module=business


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2381 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting St530 (Reply 13):
CO has said (or at least CO insiders on a.net have said) they don't want to give up capacity with any new configuration. Can they squeeze 35 seats in the current 764 BF section with DL's 1-2-1 config?

Same DL config or not, CO really ned to update its BF product on their 762/764 fleet considering both is so new. When DL complete its update (on 764 so far), CO will be on the position of the worst business class product among US carriers.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16870 posts, RR: 51
Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2372 times:



Quoting AznMadSci (Reply 17):
I'm pretty sure that once the 764s start getting the upgrade, it would also mean the end of the Hawaii-767 configuration that has the smaller BF cabin.

Only 12 767-400s will be getting the new BusinessFirst lie flat seats, the Pacific Configured 767-400s will not be upgraded.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineAznMadSci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3670 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2367 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 19):
CO will be on the position of the worst business class product among US carriers.

Seriously folks, would it be the worst?



The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2354 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting AznMadSci (Reply 21):
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 19):
CO will be on the position of the worst business class product among US carriers.

Seriously folks, would it be the worst?

CO B762/B764 and DL B763. All will have so far the old Business seats while UA and AA already upgraded their 763's.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5822 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2246 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 19):
When DL complete its update (on 764 so far), CO will be on the position of the worst business class product among US carriers.

Hah, that's a good one. Have you flown all of these carriers? Continental could offer athletic stadium BENCH seating and still have a better J product than certain other US carriers.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 22):
CO B762/B764 and DL B763. All will have so far the old Business seats while UA and AA already upgraded their 763's.

Ho hum. If it's so bad, then fly someone else, and next time I'm comfortably enjoying my CO BizFirst flight, I won't have your self seated next to me going on and on the whole flight about how lame it is.
 Yeah sure
I swear, by the time I die, I hope to have Continental passengers down to only people who like the airline. That way, I won't have to put up with whiney Simons when I fly, talking about how much better USScareways is!


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 24, posted (5 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2104 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 23):

Ho hum. If it's so bad, then fly someone else, and next time I'm comfortably enjoying my CO BizFirst flight, I won't have your self seated next to me going on and on the whole flight about how lame it is.

If i book and fly, i wont complain on a flight because i'm not a jerk customer and i can travel with anyone, even the ones complaining (that's why phones and PTV are a good invention) and if you want exclusivity and no one saying anything, try to book your next trip on a private jet or you may buy all seats on the cabin.
I have flown with people of all kinds and believe me, the worst ones are the ones that hate to travel with specific people or the ones that doesn't accept critics.

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 23):

Hah, that's a good one. Have you flown all of these carriers? Continental could offer athletic stadium BENCH seating and still have a better J product than certain other US carriers.

Yes i have flown all these carriers. I agree about the overall product, but i was talking about seat.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
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