Delta777jet From Germany, joined Jun 2000, 1131 posts, RR: 3 Posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3172 times:
Just came back from a trip to India, using TK services via Istanbul.
Really liked the on-board service and product, but all of my 4 flights were delayed by more than one hour because of the situation at Istanbul airport.
Passengers get stuck between crowded and unfriendly security lanes of the airport and TK is waiting for every single passenger, which cause the sum up of all the delays for their entire network. Today almost every single flight was delayed due to that and I wonder if that is systematic ?
I think for them would be good a transfer service for Pax who await delayed pax at their inbound flight and bring them via the apron to their onward flight. Instead of , they sending all pax to the terminal, where there is gate agent for short connections, but they will just guide you to the crowd in front of the security line, while you hear the final boarding calls for your flight.
If TK could fix this problem it would be a great airline to fly and I believe their strategy is a little bit like EK's and it seem to be working very well, despite the problems with the delays.
AOMlover From France, joined Jul 2001, 1297 posts, RR: 12 Reply 1, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3129 times:
I've had exactly the same experience today, and last week !
I flew from Nice to Bodrum via Istanbul and back. All of my 4 flights were delayed. The IST-BJV flight was delayed for more than one hour. No explanation was ever given, and we didn't receive the slightest apology. When I arrived at IST on July 30th, the passport control was a mad house. People with domestic connections tried to jump the queue, but many of them missed their flights.
It's a shame, because as you said the inflight service is excellent. On a 2.5 hours flight, we've had a delicious lunch, and we were offered a sandwich on the 1h flight from IST to BJV.
They REALLY, REALLY have to fix IST and build a new domestic terminal. The current one is a real mess.
Shamrock321 From Ireland, joined May 2008, 1547 posts, RR: 1 Reply 2, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3083 times:
I work with TK at DUB and never have I come across such an unorganised airline. Their complete lack of communication between themselves and passengers is mindblowing! Their DUB based staff are without doubt the most incompetent airline staff Ive ever dealt with as staff or as a passenger.
In the last month or so they have had some abnormal delays for them usually about 1 hour but previos to that their punctuality was great. Also as of late they have delayed a huge amount of passengers luggage comparedto before. Perhaps IST struggles with large volumes?
Bahadir From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1727 posts, RR: 12 Reply 3, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3055 times:
These are growing pains and management alla turca.. TK 's growth comes with management that doesn't understand the outside factors such as ATC, terminal procedures, terminal structure and passport work..
I just connected through FRA yesterday.. They did a smart thing and added multiple passport control stations throughout the terminal. In Istanbul, you go through centralized passport control.
Also, local pax is not used to arriving to the airport two hours earlier.. Right now TK closes check in an hour before departure. My guess is that people who show up late for the flight are still serviced in order to avoid conflicts..
AOMlover From France, joined Jul 2001, 1297 posts, RR: 12 Reply 4, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3045 times:
I forgot to add that I was travelling with a group of 8 other people. Today, 5 of us didn't get their luggage when arriving in Nice. 5 pieces of luggage out of 9 got lost, even though the connection time was 2.5 hours. Nobody knows where are the missing pieces of luggage.
Shamrock321 From Ireland, joined May 2008, 1547 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3003 times:
AOM dont worry about the luggage, I deal with that side of things and when it comes to communication and baggage TK are the worst! Most airlines will send a message after a flight departs to the arrival airport giving details about what bags are not on board, TK fail miserably at this! However your bags willlikely arrive on one of the next IST-NCE flights without any problems.
Delta777jet From Germany, joined Jun 2000, 1131 posts, RR: 3 Reply 6, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2843 times:
Ahh yes, forgot to mention we travelled in a group of 3 with a total of 4 bags. were 2 got lost.
TK delivered them by train within India due to lack of interline agreement ?!? two days later.
Bags were opened some things from one bag were stolen, TK offered 50 USD cash compensation.
Next time a fly TK, I just will report minutes before check in close to the flight as they will anyway fly at least one hour later
Wing From Turkey, joined Oct 2000, 1552 posts, RR: 25 Reply 7, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2716 times:
I would rephrase that as "Many flights form Istanbul are delayed" since Turkish airlines is one of the customers using the Istanbul Atatürk Airport,which is operated by Turkish government and TAV consortium.
Delays are not originated by Turkish Airlines but from lack of capacity of the airport and its facilities (both ground and air).
I agree with you delaying for such stupid reasons and especially waiting inline for hours are not pleasant I dont like it either.But the politics in Turkey work very slowly,THY started its growth in 2004,before that the transport minister help private airlines to boost their capacities by lowering the taxes(which is wonderful) but they didn't think about the future -which is now-.
Today we have major capacity problems in IST airport a 3rd and very well orginised airport is what we urgently need.Just yesterday I had to leave 20 pieces of luggage of connecting passengers because everybody were onboard and the luggage were stuck in the traffic on the way to our remote stand.Waiting could cause us to miss our slot time and cause more delay so I decided to leave them.
Bestwestern From Ireland, joined Sep 2000, 6435 posts, RR: 58 Reply 8, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2685 times:
Quoting Wing (Reply 7): Today we have major capacity problems in IST
Turkish Airlines are growing rapidly, and this growth is coming from an airport that cannot cope with additional traffic.
The blame for delays can stretch right through the airport - immigration is really slow on departures, and the queue to pay for your visa (nothing more than an ATM machine for the government) is a real joke - because right afterwards you have to queue again for immigration.
This must cause huge misconnects between international and domestic flights, and result in significant delays.
Security at the gate is another major delay, as you queue yet again - a central security queue would be significantly more efficient.
Quoting Wing (Reply 7): 3rd and very well orginised airport is what we urgently need
Wing From Turkey, joined Oct 2000, 1552 posts, RR: 25 Reply 9, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2616 times:
Quoting Bestwestern (Reply 8): Quoting Wing (Reply 7):
3rd and very well orginised airport is what we urgently need
That will take fifteen years.
Actually in todays building technology 3 years will be enough to get at least another airport running and IST load will be splitted,eventually we will need a huge and well organised airport with two parallel runways operating at the same time and no problems for future terminal spaces.
Quoting Bestwestern (Reply 8): queue to pay for your visa (nothing more than an ATM machine for the government) is a real joke - because right afterwards you have to queue again for immigration.
This ques is nothing compared to the ques in the embassies of the EU countries for the visa.At least you pay and buy your right to enter the country,while we wait inline for hours,humiliated while trying to convince the visa officer that you will return back to your country and still he/she can deny your visa if he/she doesnt like your hair style,now thats a real joke.
Quoting Bahadir (Reply 3): These are growing pains and management alla turca.. TK 's growth comes with management that doesn't understand the outside factors such as ATC, terminal procedures, terminal structure and passport work
I strongly disagree that THY menagement has anything to do with this.THY is a commercial company that work to make profit and in todays air business if you want to make profits you should make suitable connections.
For example a man from Norway wants to fly to China.He wants the quickest,chepest and most comfortable way to reach to his destination.If direct flight from Norway to China doesnt fit to his plan,THY offers comparable price with a connection over its hub with waiting during connection under 3 hours.T o make such a connection stlye you need a lot of airplanes.Thats what THY is constructing now but IST has reached to its limits.Very long time TK officials from all departments are making discussions trying to make the airport more efficient but the opposing people just seem not to understand or able to deal with the wishes of THY.
DHMİ is living in another world while THY is trying to reach world class,we ask better approach radars to increase the traffic capacity,they build a shiny new tower to the airport with 25 year old technology approach radars.In London you can put a plane in every 2,5 NM while IST uses 10 NM between two traffic.That means If you use the same tools as London you can increase thacapacity of the runways atleast 4 times as it is now.That means less time waiting on the tarmac for departure clearence.
Pilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2498 posts, RR: 50 Reply 11, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2584 times:
Quoting Delta777jet (Thread starter): If TK could fix this problem it would be a great airline to fly and I believe their strategy is a little bit like EK's and it seem to be working very well, despite the problems with the delays.
It's more of a national airport service problem, but it's going to get worse this x-mas when they shut runway 06 down
Quoting Wing (Reply 9): This ques is nothing compared to the ques in the embassies of the EU countries for the visa.At least you pay and buy your right to enter the country,while we wait inline for hours,humiliated while trying to convince the visa officer that you will return back to your country and still he/she can deny your visa if he/she doesnt like your hair style,now thats a real joke.
As crew we waited for 1 hr and 45 min at JFK airport to go through customs, there were 8 airlines coming in at the same time, and one booth was open...so this is quite normal for a summer operation all over the world, it's not just IST.
Bottom line is, confusing TK or any other Turkish product with the airport shouldn't be done on a website like this. If you want to open a thread on TK and your experiences, then that's another story.
I'm sure Wing does as we do, announce to our pax about what's going on...it's our compant policy to make a delay announcement onboard if we miss our pushback time of 15 mins or more. But sometimes we are busy up front with paperwork and can't get a word into the back, sometimes we'd like pax to be understanding of us too.
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
TK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4108 posts, RR: 13 Reply 12, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2531 times:
I have to agree with most of the comments above.
-Over the years, I have flown with TK 41 times, and I really can't remember a major delay but my last flights to LAX with CO we were delayed over one hour each way on super clear days. I don't think CO or TK does that for fun. Delays happen and all airlines like to avoid them.
-Also I agree with the long lines at arrivals in IST. I always suggested the visa process should be done before departure to Turkey. It could be online, at an airport kiosk or better yet (one day) on board.
-A visa application for my niece to come visit me in the US is $131 and paperwork and long trips to the other end of Istanbul, with no refund if she doesn't qualify. A visa for a US citizen to enter Turkey is $20, with no questions asked, no fingerprinting, no background check. Just a wait at the arrival airport. Pretty good deal.
-Like Pilotaydin wrote, this summer I saw the longest lines at JFK arrivals. Even for the US citizens the line took more than half an hour. I expect someone missed their connection.
-A new airport in Istanbul can definitely be build in 3 years max. Just look at SAW, the international terminal for 25 mil pax will be finished in less than 1.5 years.
TK pilots "Wing" and "Pilotaydin" live in this situation everyday and give us the inside story. Thanks guys.
Delta777jet From Germany, joined Jun 2000, 1131 posts, RR: 3 Reply 13, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2482 times:
Yes Wing, thanks for your comments. I saw that TK managed to become a very good airline to fly with and delivering an excellent product. A shame that the airport and authorities does not support the growth of the airline and customer satisfaction which could be achieved with some little changes in the progress of how the airport is structured. I'm quite sure this is not a capacity problem, but really a "how to manage the airport efficient" problem. No matter what, passengers will continue to blame TK for it and they will loose money and reputation due to this stupidity.
Goldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1673 posts, RR: 3 Reply 14, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2385 times:
Quoting TK787 (Reply 12): -A visa application for my niece to come visit me in the US is $131 and paperwork and long trips to the other end of Istanbul, with no refund if she doesn't qualify. A visa for a US citizen to enter Turkey is $20, with no questions asked, no fingerprinting, no background check. Just a wait at the arrival airport. Pretty good deal.
Don't forget that the obejectives behind visa requirements are totally different from one country to another. When countries like USA, EU, Canada, Japan require visa for citizens of some countries, it's only for immigration control (to check who wants to come and to allow/refuse a specific person to enter the country). So this means background checks, possibly interviews and obviously it can only be done only before departure by the embassy/consulate.
When countries in Africa, south-east Asia, etc require visa, it's only to get money from the visitors. So this "visa" (or we should better call it an entry tax) can be obtained before departure or very often on arrival at the airport (as basically you are just "buying a stamp")
Bestwestern From Ireland, joined Sep 2000, 6435 posts, RR: 58 Reply 17, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2308 times:
Quoting Wing (Reply 9): This ques is nothing compared to the ques in the embassies of the EU countries for the visa.
Two wrongs dont make a right. TK has major expansion plans that an hour queue to pay an entry tax will hamper. IST needs to remove any pinch point in the airport, for TK's sake, and for the sake of the tourist industry. The €15 tax is valid - just the collection method is wrong.
On my most recent transit - I got from plane to domestic terminal in 25 minutes. The person in front of me (who needed a visa but didnt queue for one in error- I already have one) ended up on my flight too - he took two hours to get from flight to domestic terminal as he had to queue twice for immigration, once for a visa...
BTW - in my opinion - TK is excellent. Punctuality sucks however.
Umit From Turkey, joined May 2009, 120 posts, RR: 3 Reply 18, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2291 times:
just last week .. I flew in to JFK and waited about 45 minutes in line to get thru visa agents with my US passport .. I waited my friends to come out from the regular passport control for about 2 hours .. reason ? 5 or 6 planes come at the same time.. I don't even want to mention the time we waited for our luggage's .. by the time I was out of the terminal it was already 5 o^clock .. I wonder what happened to almost 50 doctors who were going to attend to a seminar in California .. So I guess before somebody makes a comments on Istanbul airport they should first think about other major airports ....by the way why I can not use instant messages ? how can I use it ?
I totally agree here. Again TK can take the upper hand until things improve at IST. I wrote to TK suggesting all arriving planes play a video on board, telling pax what to expect, where to queue, how to transfer and all. I think this will ease the pain a bit and take the blame off of TK's hands.
But to be fair, you can't complain about Turks not being punctual, it is a different culture than Germany.
Shamrock321 From Ireland, joined May 2008, 1547 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2255 times:
Let me clear some things up! This is my opinion and I believe the opionion of most others on here! TK have grown and improved greatly over the last few years, no doubt! But they have problems, it seems the main one being its hub at IST. TK and IST need to own up and improve on these matters.
Its no use saying this and that happened at this and that airport in the US or EU, we are talking about TK and IST here. Altough mainly IST at fault, if an airline has expansions plans like TK they need to work with all involved to ensure an efficent airport facility such as FRA.
Im sure as time goes by things will get better but is a new airport really the answer? surely TK would want to concentrate their hub efforts at IST? Dual hubs like LHR/LGW and LIN/MXP havent worked in the past so another airport seems like a bizarre idea?
You are too kind.
Over the years I keep suggesting things to TK. By now I am sure I am on some kind of a black list. (Here is the freak with ideas again!!!) Without writing back to me some of the ideas get implemented, or so I think.
Stylo777 From Turkey, joined Feb 2006, 2870 posts, RR: 12 Reply 23, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2209 times:
Quoting Shamrock321 (Reply 21): Its no use saying this and that happened at this and that airport in the US or EU, we are talking about TK and IST here. Altough mainly IST at fault, if an airline has expansions plans like TK they need to work with all involved to ensure an efficent airport facility such as FRA.
FRA is anything but efficent. a good example is rather AND OLD: Munich - Riem (MUC / EDDM) (closed), Germany">MUC in my eyes. why? you simply have the same amount of terminal parking/docking positions, but you have exactly the double amount of gates for this position. for one flight you can use it as domestic (Schengen...) for the next one international. this gives you some flexibilty to rotate your fleet dynamic throughout your network. to be honest, I'm not 100% sure how TK handles that nowadays, but not to many years ago it was domestic/domestic or international/international.
why I mention this? we all now that a very good amount of international connecting passengers are from/to domestic flights. the transfer between the domestic and intl. terminal is rather long and old-fashioned anyway. which major airport still has a dedicated domestic terminal these days anyway?
I'm against a 3rd airport as this won't work together with IST and SAW. I would rather suggest to rebuilt the current terminal design. completely destroy the domestic terminal, extend the current intl. terminal where gate 201 ends and have a L-style terminal design. AND NOW go one level higher! like in AND OLD: Munich - Riem (MUC / EDDM) (closed), Germany">MUC or in FRA build another level on top of the current one to seperate international and domestic traffic. shorten the transfer times for both passengers and lugguage. you can further extend the terminal into the cargo area to get more terminal space and docking position. in my eyes this is absolutely possible. have a look at this picture I took last year
well, on the paper its possible, but with Turkish goverment its just wishful dreaming... unfortunately!
when things change in either FRA or AND OLD: Munich - Riem (MUC / EDDM) (closed), Germany">MUC do you know who is involved in the projects? almost EVERYBODY, starting with LH as the major airline, then either Fraport or Munich Airport, the security companies, the federal border police, the retail companies, handling agents, of course the goverment and many many more.
Quoting TK787 (Reply 19): I wrote to TK suggesting all arriving planes play a video on board,
great idea! a lot of airlines has this feature on aircrafts with AVOD. this should be an easy feature to implement to the software?!?
Turkish350XWB From Switzerland, joined Jan 2009, 429 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2191 times:
Quoting TK787 (Reply 19): I wrote to TK suggesting all arriving planes play a video on board, telling pax what to expect, where to queue, how to transfer and all
... AND showing the gate number of connecting flights like done by Swiss...
Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 23): I would rather suggest to rebuilt the current terminal design.
Do you truly think that TK and IST could compete with other carriers a la EK or QR which are growing together with their mega hubs? If TK builds up its fleet as planned with mainly short haul (B737/A320 class) planes, then the amount of landings/departures would force higher capacity of the runways - and this is very limited at IST. And if it were possible to boost runway capacity, where can they park 200 - 300 planes? Multi storey (car) parks for planes
25 TK787: Hi Stylo, just the usual email@example.com
26 Wing: Generally that happens not because of the departure airport but because of slot limitation of destination İstanbul.I get stuck in the airports and d
27 TS-IOR: The problem is ATC; flow management, and sometimes weather. CFMU predictions for today : LTBA ARRIVALS CAN EXPECT HIGH DELAYS UP TO 45 MINS 1330-2030.
28 LXA340: TK really seems to have some issues with it's on time performance. Just wehn looking at the flights getting in and out of ZRH by TK they are usually a
29 Ammunition: Istanbul bound flight (TK) have consistently been a poor performer for punctuality from Manchester Airport, mainly due to ATC en-route restrictions du
30 Delta777jet: Yep, the safety perception I also noticed by the cabin crew. The airplane A 330 TC-JNG or TC-JNF dont remember correctly, but for sure an ex Qatar Air
31 Shamrock321: DUB wasnt overly busy at 1100 yesterday so DUB cant be blamed put perhaps enroute ATC was a factor? Is being positioned at the far eastern part of Eur