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AS/QX Leaving LGB?  
User currently offlineRW717 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 290 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6597 times:

A friend of mine, who is a manager for a major airline, was in LGB yesterday and said that the BIG rumor going around is that AS/QX is pulling out of LGB. Supposedly the station is losing money. Anyone have any insight on this? If so how would the slots be redistributed?


Reno Air - The Biggest Little Airline in the World
49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26128 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6583 times:

Have not heard that rumor, but suppose anything is possible these days.

For the slot redistribution it would be a pretty straight forward process for City to award the vacated to slots to any other qualified carriers that applies for them.

For the record AS/QX hold 7 slots - 5 regular and 2 commuter.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineHikesWithEyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 816 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6311 times:

The return to LGB was to dissuade B6 from starting a lot of North/South flights.
Since B6 has a minimal presence in that market and seems to be more interested in Carib
growth AS might bail on LGB to put the aircraft into more profitable markets.



First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1972 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6257 times:

So now we can start the WN to LGB rumors, right?

User currently offlineBooDog From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 257 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6186 times:

What does AS/QX do with those 2 commuter slots?


B1B - best looking aircraft ever.
User currently offlineHatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6060 times:



Quoting BooDog (Reply 4):
What does AS/QX do with those 2 commuter slots?

QX uses one of them with a CRJ on SEA-LGB.


User currently offlineHatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5952 times:



Quoting Hatbutton (Reply 5):

QX uses one of them with a CRJ on SEA-LGB.

My mistake, they use both. 1 on SEA-LGB and 1 on PDX-LGB.


User currently offlinePgtravel From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 446 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5835 times:



Quoting Hatbutton (Reply 6):
My mistake, they use both. 1 on SEA-LGB and 1 on PDX-LGB.

Right now, it's 1 SEA-LGB and 1 PDX-LGB but starting on 2SEP, the 2nd PDX-LGB also goes to a CR7. That will leave only 2 mainline birds on SEA-LGB (one 73G and one 734).

So, AS had 5 big jet slots to serve those 5 flights, but when they started shifting to commuters earlier this year, those slots went unused. Starting in July, DL started using those two AS slots on a temporary basis to upgauge to CR9s on two SLC trips. But if AS wants to start using those again, they can.


User currently offlineLACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4064 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5653 times:
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I thought AS was doing well @ LGB and thus the reason they went from all QX to a combination of flights? How are the load factors and yields out of LGB for AS? IT would seem to me considering B6 uses a combination of E90s and 320s AS can right size there trips LGB-SEA with 73Gs and if need be upgauge them on certain days when the demand is there to 734s and 73Hs.

User currently offlineHatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5637 times:



Quoting LACA773 (Reply 8):
I thought AS was doing well @ LGB and thus the reason they went from all QX to a combination of flights? How are the load factors and yields out of LGB for AS? IT would seem to me considering B6 uses a combination of E90s and 320s AS can right size there trips LGB-SEA with 73Gs and if need be upgauge them on certain days when the demand is there to 734s and 73Hs.

Loads are fine, but according to this article...

http://www.wtop.com/?nid=25&sid=1729158

...LGB had the cheapest fares of any airport in the nation in the 1st quarter. That certainly can't bode well for yields.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5592 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5534 times:



Quoting Pgtravel (Reply 7):
So, AS had 5 big jet slots to serve those 5 flights, but when they started shifting to commuters earlier this year, those slots went unused. Starting in July, DL started using those two AS slots on a temporary basis to upgauge to CR9s on two SLC trips. But if AS wants to start using those again, they can.

I'm still a bit confused here. It is permitted for AS/QX to use both "small-plane" slots and "big-plane" slots for the same a/c -- the CR7? That's what's happening in Sept. when there will be 3 CR7s flying out of LGB, plus 2x 737s to SEA, right? (What again is the maximum size/weight for the "small-plane" qualification? And the size/weight of the CR7?)

Of course all moot if the rumor is true and AS is going to withdraw from LGB...

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 3):
So now we can start the WN to LGB rumors, right?

I don't think you'll get any takers for that rumor...  Wink

bb


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26128 posts, RR: 50
Reply 11, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5336 times:

Frankly, if anyone is dropping out from LGB, I'd pick US Airways as it continues to trim and align stations. US LGB has always been rather meager compared to other SoCal airports.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 10):
I'm still a bit confused here. It is permitted for AS/QX to use both "small-plane" slots and "big-plane" slots for the same a/c -- the CR7?

Certainly.

You just cant use a commuter slot with a big plane, but you can always use a regular slot for a smaller aircraft. Carriers like US have done similar.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 10):
What again is the maximum size/weight for the "small-plane" qualification?

<75,000lbs


For the record current slot holdings at LGB are as follows;

Regular air-carrier:
Alaska - 5
JetBlue - 29
US Airways - 4
Fedex - 1
UPS - 2

Commuter:
Delta - 5
Horizon - 2
Vacant - 18

As Pgtravel mentioned Delta has temporary use of unused Alaska slot effective July for an added SLC flight with CRJ900 aircraft.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinePgtravel From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 446 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5239 times:



Quoting SANFan (Reply 10):
I'm still a bit confused here. It is permitted for AS/QX to use both "small-plane" slots and "big-plane" slots for the same a/c -- the CR7? That's what's happening in Sept. when there will be 3 CR7s flying out of LGB, plus 2x 737s to SEA, right? (What again is the maximum size/weight for the "small-plane" qualification? And the size/weight of the CR7?)

As LAXintl said, it's definitely permitted to use the big jet slots for small planes, but I don't know that is what will happen in September. There are still 18 vacant commuter slots, so my guess is that Alaska would use one of those for the additional flight as they've done with the first two CR7 flights. But I don't know that for sure.

Regarding the size/weight issue, I just wrote a post on this:
http://crankyflier.com/2009/07/21/lo...g-beachs-75000-pound-weight-limit/

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
Frankly, if anyone is dropping out from LGB, I'd pick US Airways as it continues to trim and align stations. US LGB has always been rather meager compared to other SoCal airports.

That wouldn't surprise me either, but they did just announce that LGB was one of the stations where they were going to stop handling their own flights and outsource it instead. I imagine that if they were planning on canceling it, they wouldn't have bothered to make the switch and simply would have walked away.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26128 posts, RR: 50
Reply 13, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5150 times:



Quoting Pgtravel (Reply 12):
That wouldn't surprise me either, but they did just announce that LGB was one of the stations where they were going to stop handling their own flights and outsource it instead. I imagine that if they were planning on canceling it, they wouldn't have bothered to make the switch and simply would have walked away.

True - but it does point out the stations economics are not very hot, and the carrier does not foresee bringing mainline equipment back.

Whats most interesting with US is that they hold all regular air-carrier slots, however have served LGB in recent years with a mix of CRJ200 and CRJ900s. The CR2s can clearly use commuter slots, so its somewhat questionable if they truly need all their regular air-carrier slots. While the current schedule has CR9s, I wonder what the future holds and if service declines back to CR2s if someone (read B6) could make a case for the slots.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23295 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5130 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
Carriers like US have done similar.

...have done and, in the case of airports on the east coast, rampantly do so today (both US and others). It's not at all uncommon.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineIcebird757 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 668 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5065 times:

Here is the deal,

All PDX and SEA flights will be handled by QX, no more AS at LGB(I have not heard a date as to when this will happen). AS has told Skywest that they can use 2-3 of their slots for the CRJ-900(which Skywest is already doing) until the slots go back to the city at the end of the year or something like that. In the mean time the remaining slots I believe will be used by QX so they can go over 75,000 lbs on the SEA legs if they need to. I am sure there is more news to come on this.

Stephen
LGB ramper



LGB....where you can watch the grass grow because the traffic is so slow.
User currently offlinePgtravel From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 446 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5034 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
Whats most interesting with US is that they hold all regular air-carrier slots, however have served LGB in recent years with a mix of CRJ200 and CRJ900s. The CR2s can clearly use commuter slots, so its somewhat questionable if they truly need all their regular air-carrier slots. While the current schedule has CR9s, I wonder what the future holds and if service declines back to CR2s if someone (read B6) could make a case for the slots.

I think that as long as US Airways is using the slots, the airport won't take them away. US has really tried to shy away from the CRJs since the economics are pretty awful. I can't imagine LGB being sustainable as an all CRJ operation. The CR9 is probably the right airplane, if it'll work. It's just ridiculous that the CR9 can't use the commuter slots since it is actually quieter than the CR7. Ugh.

Quoting Icebird757 (Reply 15):
All PDX and SEA flights will be handled by QX, no more AS at LGB(I have not heard a date as to when this will happen). AS has told Skywest that they can use 2-3 of their slots for the CRJ-900(which Skywest is already doing) until the slots go back to the city at the end of the year or something like that. In the mean time the remaining slots I believe will be used by QX so they can go over 75,000 lbs on the SEA legs if they need to. I am sure there is more news to come on this.

Interesting, Stephen. If AS intends to ditch the slots, then I don't understand why they wouldn't have done it already. Why bother holding on to them? If this is true, it effectively seals the end of Alaska/Horizon service at LGB. When those CR7s go away, the DH4 won't work for that flight. So it'll eventually be 737 or nothing.

If the slots do go back to the city, it will be interesting to see who ends up with them. Any airline that wants the slot can apply and the winner is picked randomly, IIRC. I remember SY applied for that ABX slot that B6 ended up getting. They wanted to move their MSP flight from LAX to LGB, so I would be they'll try again.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5592 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4983 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
Certainly.
You just cant use a commuter slot with a big plane, but you can always use a regular slot for a smaller aircraft. Carriers like US have done similar.



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
<75,000lbs

Thankx for the clarification, LAX'.

Looks like things might get kind of interesting at Long Beach as the year winds down...

bb


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13736 posts, RR: 61
Reply 18, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4931 times:
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Quoting Pgtravel (Reply 16):
When those CR7s go away

That won't be anytime soon - the market for them has evaporated and QX acknowledges they'll continue to be part of the fleet for the foreseeable future.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26128 posts, RR: 50
Reply 19, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4754 times:

Icebird757 thanks for the update on LGB becoming an all QX station.

Quoting Pgtravel (Reply 16):
US has really tried to shy away from the CRJs since the economics are pretty awful. I can't imagine LGB being sustainable as an all CRJ operation.

As bad as the CRJ might be, US will for many years into the future be contractually committed to having a very large fleet of them and must fly them some place.
Other SoCal airports like BUR, SBA and even LAX gets them, so its certainly plausible imo that LGB could see them also at anytime.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7671 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4725 times:



Quoting HikesWithEyes (Reply 2):
Since B6 has a minimal presence in that market and seems to be more interested in Carib
growth

Minimal? B6 is the largest carrier in LGB by far. They seem more interested in other things because there are no more slots for them to add anything at LGB...until now.

Quoting Icebird757 (Reply 15):
AS has told Skywest that they can use 2-3 of their slots for the CRJ-900(which Skywest is already doing) until the slots go back to the city at the end of the year or something like that.

I wasn't aware that AS could give their slots to Skywest to fly under another brand. I thought slot transfers were forbidden unless it was under the same brand.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26128 posts, RR: 50
Reply 21, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4706 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 20):
I wasn't aware that AS could give their slots to Skywest to fly under another brand. I thought slot transfers were forbidden unless it was under the same brand.

LGB slot usage is quite low key and consentual.
The airport authority with only 41 regular air-carrier slots is willing to work with carriers as needed. Back in the day, AA was even using a B6 slot for abit.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13736 posts, RR: 61
Reply 22, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4606 times:
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Quoting Enilria (Reply 20):

Quoting HikesWithEyes (Reply 2):
Since B6 has a minimal presence in that market and seems to be more interested in Carib
growth

Minimal? B6 is the largest carrier in LGB by far.

Hikes is referring to the Southern California market in general.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineLACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4064 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4364 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 19):
As bad as the CRJ might be, US will for many years into the future be contractually committed to having a very large fleet of them and must fly them some place.
Other SoCal airports like BUR, SBA and even LAX gets them, so its certainly plausible imo that LGB could see them also at anytime.

If US ever brings the E70/E90s out west do you think we would see them at least fly the E70 into LGB? I know the E90s are out of the question as they are too heavy for the required commuter slot.


User currently offlinePgtravel From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 446 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4252 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 20):
I wasn't aware that AS could give their slots to Skywest to fly under another brand. I thought slot transfers were forbidden unless it was under the same brand.

It may have informally been a slot transfer (I don't know what discussions happen behind closed doors), but technically, AS decided not to use its slots temporarily and SkyWest requested to use them until AS wants them again. If AS relinquishes them, there will be a lottery to see who gets them.

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 23):
If US ever brings the E70/E90s out west do you think we would see them at least fly the E70 into LGB? I know the E90s are out of the question as they are too heavy for the required commuter slot.

The E70 is also too heavy. The lightest E70 tips the scales with an MTOW of 79,344 lbs. The limit is 75,000 lbs. But that isn't an issue since US has big jet slots.


25 Wedgetail737 : I hope AS chooses not to leave LGB. LGB is convenient in so many ways.
26 AS739X : I will try to find something in writing, but it was confirmed to me today that it's true. Let you know what I dig up!
27 Jetboy319 : If you don't want to lose service, start flying more. The business of matching capacity to demand is a tricky one especially in a region where yields
28 Wedgetail737 : I have some potential business travel to the Long Beach vicinity. I guess it just means I'll have to settle for SNA...or flying on B6.
29 Icebird757 : We welcome your business on B6! I don't know what will happen but I can bet that we will be putting in bid to get as many if not all of the slots whe
30 Wedgetail737 : Yeah...the only problem is that our travel office doesn't like booking with airlines like B6, VX or WN.
31 Icebird757 : That is too bad.
32 Hatbutton : I'm still curious if this is truly confirmed and when it will be happening. Nobody here at work seems to know anything about this. We are still going
33 SuperDash : Is it possible that Alaska will turn over the remaining 2 flights to Horizon? Is Alaska leaving Long Beach, but not the "AS" code?
34 Hatbutton : That's what I wondered, but the title of this thread implies QX as well. But looking in the booking system, there are still AS and QX flights bookabl
35 Icebird757 : If you read above, I said that AS is leaving LGB, NOT QX. QX will fly to both SEA and PDX.
36 Hatbutton : Well the OP said both AS and QX. That was my original question that SuperDash was trying to figure out the answer to. But even if you look in the sys
37 Wedgetail737 : Good! I'm glad SEA-LGB service is sticking around...AS or QX...it really doesn't matter to me.
38 LACA773 : Why is that? They are great airlines. In general fares are lower and you get a much better product than the legacies.
39 Icebird757 : Maybe so, but it all of the LGB-SEA flights will be operated by QX after either Oct 5th or Nov 9th.
40 Cschleic : It does to me! I'd much rather ride in a newer 737-700/-800 than cramped into a CRJ for 2+ hours.
41 Wedgetail737 : Did I ever answer your question? Our travel office typically books flights using Sabre.
42 Wedgetail737 : You're probably right on that. If I want to get on a 737-700/-800, then I guess I'll have to fly into SNA. SNA is not too far from where I need to do
43 LAXintl : Looks like its indeed all Horizon Air at LGB. Schedules were uploaded this weekend. Eff Nov 8th. AS2551 PDX-LGB 0645-0910 CR7 AS2553 PDX-LGB 1400-1625
44 SlcDeltaRUmd11 : Why is delta so interested in LGB? Is it the competition with B6 why they are intereted in the route?
45 LAXintl : Well Delta's interest and commencement of service to Long Beach is relatively new having been awarded commuter slots at the end of 2005 and commencing
46 LACA773 : Thanks for answering Wedgetail737. That makes sense.
47 Rcardinale : Im guessing Jetblue and Delta but how are the slots decided?
48 Icebird757 : I know B6 will put in for the slots and I guess that maybe Sun Country will put in for 1 slot. Maybe DL will put in forsoem slots also. Who knows.
49 LAXintl : Lottery
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