CatIII From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 2279 posts, RR: 3 Posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5622 times:
Fair use from the AJC (http://www.ajc.com/business/more-job-cuts-coming-110656.html):
"After losing $257 million and seeing a $2.1 billion decline in operating revenues in the second quarter, Delta chief executive Richard Anderson said the company will need to eliminate salaried jobs beyond the management and administrative job reductions of the past 18 months. Those cuts, which totaled about 2,000, came from Delta’s merger with Northwest Airlines and also from open positions not filled."
Losses and job cuts. I guess this means that whatever benefits and synergies that were "generated" as a result of the merger are now gone.
STT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16261 posts, RR: 52 Reply 1, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5591 times:
Quote: The company will also tighten budgets for vendors, marketing and advertising campaigns.
Like signing a $5+ million dollar per year marketing deal with the New York Yankees in the midst of the worst economic climate since the Great Depression, also during a time when Yankee Stadium (all MLB stadiums for that matter) attendance is down. The most startling sign of the dead business climate around Yankee stadium is all those empty seats behind home plate usually occupied by business clients, even during Yankees/Red Sox Games.
My brother in Law's company has season tickets on the third base side 4-6 rows back from the dug out (expensive seats), we went to a Yankees game in May when they were playing the Red Sox and the whole section where we were sitting was only about 40% full. Immediately behind home plate there was only a handful of people, the premium seats usually full of Business folks are for the most part empty. We get access to the Audi club and we didn't even bother going in because no one was in there, same with the Legends club and the other clubs. A bunch or bartenders and waitresses standing around trying to look busy with no one in their rooms.
CatIII From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 2279 posts, RR: 3 Reply 2, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5417 times:
Quoting STT757 (Reply 1): Like signing a $5+ million dollar per year marketing deal with the New York Yankees in the midst of the worst economic climate since the Great Depression, also during a time when Yankee Stadium (all MLB stadiums for that matter) attendance is down.
I can kind of understand the deal, especially since they want to be New York's hometown airline. What I can't understand is the management letting revenues decline and costs go up across the company so that they have lost all the synergies and "value" they allegedly were creating.
DeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 8590 posts, RR: 8 Reply 3, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5282 times:
Quoting CatIII (Thread starter): Losses and job cuts. I guess this means that whatever benefits and synergies that were "generated" as a result of the merger are now gone.
These losses where stated at the start of this merger. Most people could figure out when you merge two HQs into one there will be job losses. Most of the mangment team that wasn't picked will be going at the end of the summer, these people would be the people the AJC is talking about.......nothing new going on here it was just talked about a half a year ago.
Quoting STT757 (Reply 1): Like signing a $5+ million dollar per year marketing deal with the New York Yankees in the midst of the worst economic climate since the Great Depression, also during a time when Yankee Stadium (all MLB stadiums for that matter) attendance is down. The most startling sign of the dead business climate around Yankee stadium is all those empty seats behind home plate usually occupied by business clients, even during Yankees/Red Sox Games.
but if it were CO itd be a good idea. Signing up teams is a good idea.
"Oh look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky! Look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky!" LM 1922-2011 Go Dawgs! G.A.T.A.
Bobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5980 posts, RR: 9 Reply 4, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5191 times:
Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 3): but if it were CO itd be a good idea. Signing up teams is a good idea.
I disagree, I don't believe that signing up teams ever brings in a single additional passenger to any airline. It is a good ego booster, and good for bragging points but as far as bringing additional revenue not. Just my opinion.
WorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5121 times:
DL established post 9/11 that having regularly "purging" of its salaried/merit employee staff is a necessary move in order to be able to regularly weed out the weak performers. This has happened w/ a fair degree of regularity over the past 10 years and it is almost always the weakest employees that are forced out. Strong performers are accommodated somewhere in the company, even if their positions are eliminated. It is not a good thing to guarantee job security to merit employees.
Incidentally, DL does have one of the lowest General and Administrative cost burdens of the US airlines.
AirNz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5083 times:
Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 5): DL established post 9/11 that having regularly "purging" of its salaried/merit employee staff is a necessary move in order to be able to regularly weed out the weak performers. This has happened w/ a fair degree of regularity over the past 10 years
If people aren't performing in their jobs why does it take 'regular purging' to get rid if them? Indeed, you're then saying/admitting that DL keeps repeated underperformers employed. Are you meaning the last 10 years, or post 9-11 (not the same thing at all)?
Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 5): Incidentally, DL does have one of the lowest General and Administrative cost burdens of the US airlines.
And your point is what......relative to the thread?
Usdcaguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 756 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5021 times:
Personally, I don't see the benefit of the cuts. They are trying to sell the merger as the most successful one in history, but if there's not enough people around to manage the transition, they could end up falling behind. To think that DL/NW still do not have a combined operating certificate or reservation system and are already putting heads on the chopping block either means that they hired on too many people to begin with or are really in trouble financially.
Bobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5980 posts, RR: 9 Reply 8, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4984 times:
Quoting Usdcaguy (Reply 7): To think that DL/NW still do not have a combined operating certificate or reservation system and are already putting heads on the chopping block either means that they hired on too many people to begin with or are really in trouble financially.
Or far more likely, DL/NW is trying not to get into financial trouble in the future. More of a preemptive strike to be ahead of the curve.
STT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16261 posts, RR: 52 Reply 9, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4933 times:
Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 3):
but if it were CO itd be a good idea. Signing up teams is a good idea.
CO had the Yankees advertising, they decided to not pay the Yankees double for the rights which they had been paying the past 10 years. Most companies have decided not to pay double and sometimes triple what their seats were worth last year at the New Yankee stadium, the empty premium seats and empty clubs is a stark sight.
Bottom line DL overpaid during a time when advertising is falling on deaf ears, the dozens of blank billboards all along the New Jersey Turnpike is another sign of the times.
Mayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9199 posts, RR: 14 Reply 10, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4932 times:
Quoting AirNz (Reply 6): Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 5):
Incidentally, DL does have one of the lowest General and Administrative cost burdens of the US airlines.
And your point is what......relative to the thread?
Because the thread is talking about these positions, is it not?
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
Flyingcat From United States of America, joined May 2007, 510 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4922 times:
Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 3): Most of the management team that wasn't picked will be going at the end of the summer, these people would be the people the AJC is talking about.......nothing new going on here it was just talked about a half a year ago.
Actually this is not correct While there were some people who were obviously on the way out.
Best example of this is Laura Lui who was assigned a cubicle not an office.
In early 09 the post merger management and salaried positions were laid a out and filled. Those who found out that they did not have a slot were able to take the a voluntary early out that was being offered at the same company wide.
This time this does not coincide with that and no further details have been provided as to whether they will. Those eliminated this time will include some who were leaving just needed for integration, but will also include others who thought they had a job.
They want this done fast. The previous time the integrated work force plan was delayed for months. I'm willing to bet in order to cut down on time they will just use the data from early 09 and set the bar high enough to eliminate the required amount.
WorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4889 times:
DL, along with other companies, does get rid of underperformers on a regular basis. But there is a difference between underperforming (which is relative to the standards of your job) and weak (which is relative to your peers). A job reduction provides the opportunity to compare a specific employee's performance RELATIVE TO HIS/HER PEERS and cut the lowest X%. Healthy organizations continually get rid of the weakest members, regardless of whether it is a sports franchise or a business. It just happens to be much easier legally and faster to get rid of the lowest tier of employees in a downsizing than it is if an employee's job is eliminated solely on the merits of their own performance.
DL consistently has said from the day the merger was announced that DL would not guarantee job security for mgmt/merit employees. They have said there would be job security for frontline employees. Both of those have played out exactly as DL stated.
There has never been a merger as large as DL/NW so there is no basis for how fast a SOC should be obtained. But I am quite sure that US/HP did not obtain a SOC in 14 months which is how long it will take if DL obtains one by the end of the year, which is what they have consistenly been stating as their expectation.
Hiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2118 posts, RR: 4 Reply 13, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4827 times:
It does not take a major reduction in force as an 'excuse' to eliminate poor performing mgt and merit personnel.....soft pedaling these employees out the door with a RIF and such is a sign of weakness in the personnel side of the business if that is the only way they feel it can be done. No matter what anyone says the NW/DL deal was sold at all levels as a synergy that would create jobs and growth even though it was being done during a time of growing inflation and high fuel costs and growing losses. Long term observers of the industry predicted far bigger losses in both revenue and personnel that DL allowed during the buildup...and those observers are appearing to be more accurate than DL.
Flybyguy From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1791 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4778 times:
I suppose large mergers at airlines rarely go very well. Look at the disaster of the AA / TWA merger... a couple years after 9-11, practically the whole TWA side of the company was laid off or furloughed. The US / AW was also a disaster. I suspect these are going to be very unhappy times for the NW folks at Delta.
"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
STT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16261 posts, RR: 52 Reply 15, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4776 times:
Quoting Flybyguy (Reply 14): Look at the disaster of the AA / TWA merger.
That really wasn't a merger, AA picked up TWA assets in Bankruptcy that were going to be liquidated.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21244 posts, RR: 19 Reply 16, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4742 times:
Quoting STT757 (Reply 15): That really wasn't a merger, AA picked up TWA assets in Bankruptcy that were going to be liquidated.
And, to be fair, had 9/11 not happened, AA would likely look a lot different today, and the ex-TW folks would be in a much better spot.
US-HP was, in a way, similar. It was a merger of two carriers that desperately needed to do something to survive.
NWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3324 posts, RR: 9 Reply 17, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4634 times:
Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 3): Most of the mangment team that wasn't picked will be going at the end of the summer, these people would be the people the AJC is talking about.......nothing new going on here it was just talked about a half a year ago.
This is different from those announcements.
Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 4): I disagree, I don't believe that signing up teams ever brings in a single additional passenger to any airline. It is a good ego booster, and good for bragging points but as far as bringing additional revenue not. Just my opinion.
Well, here's something to add to the "I-can't-believe-I-ever-thought-I'd-be-saying-this" list:
I completely agree, Bob....
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
Mayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9199 posts, RR: 14 Reply 18, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4614 times:
Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 4): I disagree, I don't believe that signing up teams ever brings in a single additional passenger to any airline. It is a good ego booster, and good for bragging points but as far as bringing additional revenue not. Just my opinion.
Well, you really don't know if anything like that ever brings in customers....i.e. radio, TV, print, billboards, but you imagine it would. I can't believe that naming rights doesn't do something to get your name out there.
Quoting Flybyguy (Reply 14): I suspect these are going to be very unhappy times for the NW folks at Delta.
Why any more unhappy for the NW people than the DL people?
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
Azjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3556 posts, RR: 30 Reply 19, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4502 times:
From what I understand... these recently announced cuts are NEW cuts. With NWA already running a lean operation BEFORE the merger and tons of jobs being cut or moved to ATL in the first round, let's hope that these cuts don't affect the DL-north operation more than the DL-south operation.
My favorite quote from nearly every DL employee I've come in contact with is this... "this merger is going all NWAs way!"
DALMD88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2366 posts, RR: 15 Reply 20, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4405 times:
Quoting AirNz (Reply 6): If people aren't performing in their jobs why does it take 'regular purging' to get rid if them? Indeed, you're then saying/admitting that DL keeps repeated underperformers employed. Are you meaning the last 10 years, or post 9-11 (not the same thing at all)?
Let's be real here. Very few companies cull the weak employees on a day to day basis. In the sales world it might happen, but in an admin org it doesn't. Those weak managers just get by until there is a purge like this. Nobody wants to fire someone just because we might be able to find someone that can do your job better. It can also be a tough legal fight.
MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 15733 posts, RR: 48 Reply 21, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4376 times:
Quoting Mayor (Reply 18): Why any more unhappy for the NW people than the DL people?
Isn't it mostly the NW old guard running the show at this point?
UnitedFA07 From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 109 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4088 times:
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21244 posts, RR: 19 Reply 23, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4054 times:
Quoting UnitedFA07 (Reply 22): Guess you missed the one about United and 150 new aircraft from either Boeing or Airbus?!
Note the use of the present tense (I said "is taking," not "will be taking.") UA is not presently taking new aircraft.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
Ripcordd From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1023 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (3 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4054 times:
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 16): US is taking new airplanes (unlike UA or AA).
I guess you missed the part that AA is taking about 2 737''S a month for about the past couple months until they get around 80 or so?
25 Malaysia: And disabled workers as well. (easy way to let em go using lay-off as excuse)
26 Cubsrule: They are-- that was a brain fart on my part (though you guys are missing my point by nit-picking).
27 Bobnwa: Please give examples where DL or any airline has let go disabled workers under the guise of lay-off due to a RIF (reduction in force)
28 Bluesky02: I would think that Delta Management knows the staffing level they require to run the business. And as DeltaL1011man said, Or that the airline is bein
29 Xdlx: With all due respect.... The current management was "hand picked" to see DL/NW merged into one company. This folks had been thru every review for per
30 Xdlx: I can not be specific, but the reality is DL does not have a SYSTEM to assist, evaluate and provide the support required for anyone returning from a
32 CatIII: *almost* always. There's a few departments where the so-called "best athlete" that was kept was not, in fact, the best athlete. My department is one.
33 Mayor: You have heard that the economy is in bad shape, haven't you?? It's been in all the papers.
34 CatIII: So am I wrong? Are they not losing the synergies and benefits of the merger with those losses?
35 Flyibaby: I disagree; it has been made obvious that the $257M loss wouldn't have occured if it hadn't been for a bad oil hedge previously in place. Someone cor
36 Cospn: I haven't seen any Improvement in the Cash burn that is NRT... JAL lost 1B !!! Flying widebodys and 757-200's to GUM, SPN and MNL are money loosers..J
37 DeltaL1011man: I agree Bob(this is new). Being the "airline of the New York Yankees" isn't going to get butts in the seats, but it does get the Delta name into the
38 Bobnwa: So are you saying that DL will use this process to get rid of employees with disabilities? I don't think so.
39 DLPMMM: Yes, you are wrong. The synergies are not lost because if the economy. DL/NW (and any other airline or analyst) didn't plan for double diget drops in
40 DeltaL1011man: To add to the very good post by DLP. Most of the synergies wont come till after SOC. Merging res systems,web site,HQs, Opps control(Not sure but IIRC
41 Tothestars: Assets are acquired, people should be merged. AA purchased TWA "after" TW agreed to file for Ch11.
42 Congaboy: Flying DL regularly out of ATL, I would say there is improvement with flight attendant staff...in other words, it would seem DL has weeded out some o
43 Tango-Bravo: OTOH... wouldn't the 'favorite quote from nearly every NWA employee' with whom one might come in contact be... "this merger is going all Delta's way!
44 Bobnwa: Delta has not let go a single front line employee. They have only let mamagers go . All F/A and counter and staff reductions have been voluntary by e
45 FrmrCAPCADET: Not terribly knowledgeable regarding this, but very large companies have a difficult job laying off large numbers of people. One of the preferred meth
46 Goaliemn: How can they be the NY hometown airline when they are headquartered in Atlanta?
47 STT757: Not only that, but their NY's 4th airline behind #1 CO, #2 B6 and #3 AA.
48 777STL: On the same token though, it's hardly a textbook example of how a consolidation should be done. US/AW still operates as two different companies in ma
49 DLPMMM: It is marketing. Marketing is designed around emotions. If NYers feel that DL is their "hometown" airline, then it is. Just like Budwiser is an Ameri
50 Par13del: No it means that they took / are taking too long to get there. Funny how this thought process does not exist on the WN / F9 threads, only WN purchase
51 STT757: CO handles 8 million more passengers per year than DL in the NY area.
52 Cubsrule: They do, and NW/DL will be the same in some ways, e.g. widebody pilots.
Sponsor Message: 
From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 2279 posts, 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
Printer friendly format 
