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A320 Successor Will Be Built Alone In Hamburg  
User currently offlineOldeuropean From Germany, joined May 2005, 2091 posts, RR: 4
Posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 16834 times:

Several German newspapers report today, that a Airbus spokesman confirms, that a planed successor of the A320 family (called here: A30X) will alone be built in Hamburg.

This was a requirement by the German gvernment for new credits.

So far only in German:

http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/0,1518,641408,00.html

http://www1.ndr.de/wirtschaft/dossiers/airbus/airbus594.html


Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
68 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 16781 times:

Makes sense, narrowbodies in Germany, widebodies in France. The current set-up is an inheritence of the "old" Airbus, when they only had the a300, a310 and a320. It's much more cost effective to divide it this way, too bad the French unions stood in the way of moving the a320 line completely to Germany. This was the plan in the original Power8 cost saving plan, but alas.


L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21562 posts, RR: 59
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 16698 times:



Quoting Kappel (Reply 1):
It's much more cost effective to divide it this way, too bad the French unions stood in the way of moving the a320 line completely to Germany. This was the plan in the original Power8 cost saving plan, but alas.

But why won't they stand in the way of this, too?



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineMBJ2000 From Germany, joined Dec 2005, 426 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 16672 times:

I think the more interesting thing in this news is that they now publicly speak about the successor A30X. This means they don't wait until Boeing makes the first move??
We want more infos!  Smile let the rumour mills begin, will it be a full composite etc...



Like most of life's problems, this one can be solved with bending -- Bender Unit 22
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7422 posts, RR: 57
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 16641 times:

As MBJ2000 said, the most important in this "information" is about the long waited A320's successor.
Who cares where it will be assembled (not "built") even if I really doubt the assembly line will be moved totally to Hamburg ...


User currently offlineRacko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 16616 times:

The project name A30X has been around for some time, as well as quite a few concept drawings. It probably still is 10 years away, unless Boeing or another serious competitor moves earlier.

The whole thing makes a lot of sense. "Prestigious" widebodies in France makes the French happy, lots of "bread and butter" narrowbodies in Germany makes the Germans happy.

[Edited 2009-08-10 02:48:34]

User currently onlineN14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2791 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 16585 times:



Quoting Kappel (Reply 1):
Makes sense, narrowbodies in Germany, widebodies in France.

plus the outfitting and painting of the A380s in Germany. I don't think that they will change this.


User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10183 posts, RR: 97
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 16571 times:
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Quoting N14AZ (Reply 6):
plus the outfitting and painting of the A380s in Germany. I don't think that they will change this.

IIRC this was also said in Power8.  checkmark 

Rgds


User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 16242 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
But why won't they stand in the way of this, too?

We'll see if they won't at that time I guess.

FlightGlobal also has an article on this subject.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...assembled-entirely-in-hamburg.html

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 6):
plus the outfitting and painting of the A380s in Germany. I don't think that they will change this.

Indeed...



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlineSXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2425 posts, RR: 22
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 16016 times:



Quoting Racko (Reply 5):
The project name A30X has been around for some time, as well as quite a few concept drawings

Is there any pictures around of the concept plans for the "A30X"?



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineRacko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 15987 times:

There was one in AW&ST a few weeks/months ago. If I remember it correctly, it had 2 tailfins and 2 unducted fans mounted on top of the tail.

User currently offlineFrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3814 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 14155 times:



Quoting Racko (Reply 5):
"Prestigious" widebodies in France makes the French happy,

 Confused

What has prestige got to do with anything?
Do you honestly believe it's prestige 'The French' are worried about?

The whole deal about each country trying to build airplanes on their own territory is about politicians trying to give jobs to their respective citizens (voters).



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineNitepilot79 From Turkey, joined May 2008, 292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 13322 times:



Quoting SXDFC (Reply 9):
Is there any pictures around of the concept plans for the "A30X"?

I haven't seen any, but given the new design trends floating around (A380 nose, 787 cockpit windows) seems they will sprinkle a little of this and a little of that and make one butt-ugly plane  laughing 



En Buyuk Turkiye, Baska Buyuk Yok!
User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 13021 times:



Quoting Racko (Reply 10):
If I remember it correctly, it had 2 tailfins and 2 unducted fans mounted on top of the tail.

There were a couple of concept drawings, and this was indeed one of them.

Quoting Francoflier (Reply 11):
is about politicians trying to give jobs to their respective citizens (voters).

Absolutely. This is the major point for politicians, not who gets to build the bigger planes.



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlineMurchmo From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 12228 times:

If you google "open rotor engines" you get a number of pics of not only the engines, but also a couple concepts for the jet. This has been discussed in the past, but aviation week did an article on the A30X here : http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/jsp_i...e=Airbus%20Refines%20A30X%20Design

Hopefully the link works, I'm posting this from my G1 :



to strive to seek to find and not to yield
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7422 posts, RR: 57
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 12100 times:



Quoting Racko (Reply 5):
The whole thing makes a lot of sense. "Prestigious" widebodies in France makes the French happy, lots of "bread and butter" narrowbodies in Germany makes the Germans happy.

This is indeed a very simplistic statement.

At this point, it's a matter of billions of Euros and thousands of jobs, in France AND in Germany, so I really don't thing anybody is taking any sort of "prestige" in consideration.


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 11519 times:

I'm postings from a E71 so linking is complicated. On the Tech/Ops forum I posted a Counter Rotating Open Rotor thread that shows a direction of thinking since open Rotors became more silent and blade containment concerns moved design away from two engines next to each other on top of the aft fuselage. Maybe someone can link the NLR artist impression..

User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4864 posts, RR: 40
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 11332 times:
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Quoting Oldeuropean (Thread starter):
Several German newspapers report today, that a Airbus spokesman confirms, that a planed successor of the A320 family (called here: A30X) will alone be built in Hamburg.

This comes as no surprise, but still it is nice that it is confirmed. But the EIS will probably be around 2020 or so, so we still have a long way to go.

Quoting Oldeuropean (Thread starter):
This was a requirement by the German gvernment for new credits.

That will no doubt keep the RLI discussions at the WTO and on A-net alive.  Wink


User currently offlineNaritaflyer From Japan, joined Apr 2006, 549 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 11245 times:



Quoting Francoflier (Reply 11):
Do you honestly believe it's prestige 'The French' are worried about?

Yup. Prestige has everything to do when it comes to France.


User currently offlineTheSonntag From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 3689 posts, RR: 29
Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 11146 times:

I think this clearly shows that Airbus was, is, and will be as much German as it is French.

User currently offlineFrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3814 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 11146 times:



Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 18):
Yup. Prestige has everything to do when it comes to France.

Care to elaborate on your expert opinion?



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31259 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 11128 times:
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Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 19):
I think this clearly shows that Airbus was, is, and will be as much German as it is French.

Or at least that significant German involvement is still critical to Airbus' continued success.


User currently offlineN623JB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 11106 times:

I hope that Airbus builds a A320-like aircraft for long haul routes...like from New York to Europe,etc..


Bring JetBlue To Mexico City! (TLC and/or MEX would be great)
User currently offlineVoodoo From Niue, joined Mar 2001, 2098 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 11034 times:

Quoting Racko (Reply 10):
There was one in AW&ST a few weeks/months ago. If I remember it correctly, it had 2 tailfins and 2 unducted fans mounted on top of the tail.

Was it like this one , below?
There's been a design like that floating for a while now... I think this one stems from 'Sonic Cruiser competitor' days:
Here's hoping: LOL


I've also seen a very conventional 320 'upgrade' basically involving a much longer wingspan and new engines in the usual place..



[Edited 2009-08-10 12:59:07]


` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
User currently offlineRacko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 10876 times:

All I wanted to say is that France puts more emphasis on national pride and national symbols while Germans are still uneasy about that stuff. So assembling the "Golf of the Skies" here and widebodies, which imho carry more prestige, in France makes sense.

In terms of workload it has so far always been pretty much 50/50, even though the public impression has been more France-focused (see Stich's posting).


25 Slinky09 : Are you saying that prestige and French psyche are totally separate concepts . I hope to see something really innovate on the outside as well as the
26 Max777geek : sounds much more reasonable concept.
27 Gisors : Silly arrogant comments make me happy. I know where does this stupid stereotype originate from: Der Spiegel. Which has a hard time explaining that Ge
28 AirbusA6 : I would be happier if these decisions were made on a purely economic basis, not on a "we're not contributing x billion unless we get this assembly lin
29 Francoflier : Very sensible comment. It is a good decision, but taken for the wrong reason. Politicians still continue to use Airbus as a political toy.
30 Post contains images Racko : Look, I never meant it in any way derogatory towards France (rather the opposite - I wish German politics had the balls to go for something the way Fr
31 Airproxx : Seems more like another attempt from Airbus to try to look as they got a brand new concept for a future narrow body... I doubt they really do... Anot
32 Afterburner : Should it be called A3X0? Will this production location change make a better image of Airbus products in the eyes of ignorant people who don't like A
33 SSTsomeday : Interesting that we hear first of Airbus planning a repleacment A/C in this category, when they have a more recent entry (the 320) than Boeing (the 73
34 Tdscanuck : A320 first flew in 1987. 737NG first flew in 1997. How is the A320 the "more recent entry"? The 737NG is as different from prior 737's as it's possib
35 NicoEDDF : Acutally, the money is not a present to Airbus, but rather full repayable credit incl. interest. Germany is indeed giving an incentive to build the w
36 Stitch : It is my understanding that RLA is granted to Airbus at the "central bank rate" which is the rate that the federal government loans money to the bank
37 EPA001 : That is most likely the reason why Airbus would apply for RLI by the respective governments. The downside is that on profitable programs like the A31
38 Lightsaber : Nothing wrong with that. If Texas wanted to make a similar arrangement with Boeing, it would be legal. For the local government benefits with a large
39 AirbusA6 : It'll be called the A888-800 (you can't get enough of those lucky 8s!) The A320 has been a massive success, and it's hard to envisage a situation wher
40 DocLightning : Cute photo, but I believe that the A320RS will have wing-mounted twin engines, a single aisle with 3+3 seating, a conventional tail, and winglets. It
41 Stitch : I expect it is not an issue of needing RLA, but one of being offered a line of credit at rates and conditions more favorable then they can secure on
42 ElbowRoom : But if you look at the massive proliferation of routes, most people except those travelling routes like JFK-LAX have seen huge reductions in door-to-
43 Stitch : Actually, some civilians have moved mighty fast transiting to and from Low Earth Orbit as guests of Mir and the ISS.
44 Post contains links Khobar : Why would they wait to see what Boeing is going to do? Boeing has destroyed its credibility and doesn't present much of a threat. They had talked abo
45 Revelation : Aren't the X billion dollars part of the economic basis? Seriously, it's just another form of corporate welfare. Corporations wouldn't be doing their
46 Stitch : While the weight-savings will likely be minimal (Boeing themselves have long admitted as much due to the lower OEWs of a 737-class airplane), other b
47 RIX : 1. I must have missed massive 787 order cancellations. 2. It was said repeatedly 787 technology alone won't bring enough efficiency boost for short-t
48 SSTsomeday : Well because the 737 is a 1960's platform. Also without a very expensive landing gear modification which I'm not sure is possible or worth it, the en
49 Astuteman : Like the $Bn's of government aid for the 787 launch? More seriously, your comment would be ok if the projects existed in isolation, but they don't. T
50 Stitch : While the 737-100 and 737-200 were indeed launched in the 1960's, the 737NG launched in the 1990's incorporates three decades worth of advancements i
51 Post contains links and images Keesje : . I think the A320 / 737 replacement is still a cat and mouse play between the airlines, Airbus, Boeing and Embraer / Bombardier. The Airbus and Boein
52 Post contains links and images SXDFC : Introducing the A320NG aka The Airbus A322.. Aviation-Design.Net:Design © Bobby CatoneTemplate © RP Abraham Longer Wing, Taller tail, Winglets and a
53 Stitch : While I know GE was able to get their prototype UDF's to Stage III noise compliance, they are likely still going to be louder than enclosed turbofan e
54 Post contains links and images Keesje : I think the potential disadvantages of open rotors are well known. However the key variables such as 10% better energy effieciency and lower polution
55 SSTsomeday : I would reiterate that the two types of incentive come at very different times during an A/C's development; launch aid coming when a manufacturer is
56 Keesje : I think we should not ignore that Boeing's #1 most important customer is the same US government. They are also their favorite bank (Im-Ex), R&D partn
57 Post contains images EPA001 : I think your suggestion is completely wrong. The aids both companies enjoy are of a different type, but the size of the aid is more or less comparabl
58 Osteogenesis : Take it easy my friend. Alltough I can not prove it the way you would like I have also always had the feeling that for the french nationalistic symbo
59 Stitch : While Pratt's VP of GTF development has conceded that on a test bench an Open Rotor engine should have a 10% fuel advantage over a direct-drive engin
60 DocLightning : JFK-SFO used to have about 15 widebodies per day. There was less waiting at security lines. The overall number of seats on that room has stayed the s
61 Astuteman : In which case I hope you don't mind me re-iterating that because there are mulitple projects on the go at both manufacturers, the overall picture is
62 Keesje : Agree. I think it has to do with the price of those 10%. If Oil is $200 that's different then $50 a barrel. Many think it will be the higher number i
63 Stitch : Well LEAP will fit under a 737NG and Pratt notes that with the ability to mount the GTF higher and farther forward on the strut, it might be possible
64 Post contains images Keesje : You can mount the GTF or LEAPX under the 737 if you make the fanradius / BPR small enough, killing sfc. Still a GTF 737 would not have container/pall
65 Stitch : Not being able to load palatalized or containerized freight nor offering one inch less width per seat and having a lot of "not so modern technology" h
66 Keesje : I thought the A320 outproduces and outsells the 737 for some time now. Oh wait, your statement doesn't deny that..
67 Post contains links and images EPA001 : Quoting Stitch (Reply 65): And yet with all those advantages, Airbus has averaged 257 A320 sales a year (6418 sales over 25 years). At the current ave
68 Stitch : EPA001, the A320 is clearly a solid family of products and happens to be my preferred family of narrowbodies (though the 737NG is truly a world beyond
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