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New Zealand Aviation Thread #61  
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 18
Posted (5 years 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 19514 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR

Welcome to the 61st edition of the New Zealand Aviation Thread. In Thread #60 New Zealand Aviation Thread #60 (by 777ER Jul 18 2009 in Civil Aviation) we have leant and discussed:

- ZK-ZQ* series appears to be for Jetconnects new B738 fleet
- DJ and DLs planned alliance
- NZ and AC alliance
- NZs first B763 with winglets has arrived home
- DJs first few weeks of selling its HLZ services
- AKL announces its Airport Hotel
- More bad news for Jetconnect when a B734 lost cabin pressure
- ZK-FRE is departing NZs fleet for Webjet
- NZ reduces WSZ-CHC services from December 18th
- DJ announces weekend AKL-ZQN services from September
- NZ announces ROT-SYD services

Lets get Thread #61 going

279 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6413 posts, RR: 38
Reply 1, posted (5 years 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 19503 times:

Thanks again, Jase, much appreciated.

Quoting 777ER (Thread starter):
- NZs first B763 with winglets has arrived home

2 "at home" now. I think I saw NCG fly overhead tonight despite it being dark..



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineNZ1 From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 2253 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (5 years 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 19501 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting NZ107 (Reply 1):
2 "at home" now. I think I saw NCG fly overhead tonight despite it being dark..

Yeah, 2 home 3 to go.

NZ1


User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1674 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (5 years 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 19427 times:

just thought I do a radom check on airfares for next year,

did AKL - LAX in Feb 16/28 and came out with this

V Australia were out in 1ST PLACE - in at NZ$ 1944.00 ( not great times on the return)
NZ - NZ$ 2329.40
QF - NZ$ 2430.00



NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlineAdam42185 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 413 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 19429 times:

I think that the 767 with winglets are beautiful, especially with the koru on them. In a recently posted picture, however, the caption says that koru on the inside of the winglet is going to be removed... due to vertigo? Whose vertigo? I think they look incredible the way they are it would be a shame for them to remove the design on the inside.

User currently offlineJasewgtn From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 823 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (5 years 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 19382 times:



Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 3):
( not great times on the return)

Shocking connection!

Depart
V Australia.
VA51

Depart:
Tue 16 Feb 7:15am Auckland
Arrive:
Tue 16 Feb 8:45am Sydney
Economy | 3hrs 30mins | 737-800
Operated by Pacific Blue

Change PlanesTime between flights: 12hrs 45mins
V Australia.
VA1

Depart:
Tue 16 Feb 9:30pm Sydney
Arrive:
Tue 16 Feb 4:10pm Los Angeles
Economy | 13hrs 40mins | 777-300ER
Return
V Australia.
VA2

Depart:
Sun 28 Feb 11:15pm Los Angeles
Arrive:
Tue 2 Mar 9:15am Sydney
Economy | 15hrs | 777-300ER

Change PlanesTime between flights: 9hrs 30mins
V Australia.
VA54

Depart:
Tue 2 Mar 6:45pm Sydney
Arrive:
Tue 2 Mar 11:45pm Auckland
Economy | 3hrs | 737-800
Operated by Pacific Blue


User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1674 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (5 years 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 19335 times:

the outward trip was showing as ;

06:30 Auckland - 08:30 Melbourne VA165 Operated by Pacific Blue

11:15 Melbourne - 06:40 Los Angeles VA11 Operated by V Australia *subject to goverment approval*



NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5187 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (5 years 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 19333 times:



Quoting Jasewgtn (Reply 5):
Shocking connection!

Even though it is a shcoking connection there are still quite a few people that do this connection now....


User currently offlineAerorobNZ From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7184 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (5 years 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 19309 times:



Quoting ANstar (Reply 7):
Even though it is a shcoking connection there are still quite a few people that do this connection now....

for the minimal savings over a direct service they are fools. At least FJ/TN connect very well to LAX


User currently offlineDavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1644 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (5 years 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 19281 times:



Quoting AerorobNZ (Reply 8):
for the minimal savings over a direct service they are fools. At least FJ/TN connect very well to LAX

I don't know about that - I know a lot of people for whom a saving of $400 on the fare would be most welcome. Not all travellers are well-heeled! And there are a lot of things worse than having a day in SYD to see friends, sight-see etc. Each according to their needs, I say . . . we don't need to slag them for choosing an out-of-the-way routing.



This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
User currently offlineMillwallSean From Singapore, joined Apr 2008, 1241 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (5 years 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 19237 times:



Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 3):
just thought I do a radom check on airfares for next year,

did AKL - LAX in Feb 16/28 and came out with this

V Australia were out in 1ST PLACE - in at NZ$ 1944.00 ( not great times on the return)
NZ - NZ$ 2329.40
QF - NZ$ 2430.00

and those fares are the reason why we see new entrants going for the Oceania - LAX market.
It costs more or less the same to fly between AKL - Europe and AKL - LAX.

And lets remember February is usually a pretty good month to get good deals. However student arrivals sometimes makes it hard to find seats on flights coming from Asia.



No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5310 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (5 years 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 19240 times:



Quoting Adam42185 (Reply 4):
due to vertigo? Whose vertigo?

They look great I agree.

I've heard of PAX being sick at night due to the white reflection of the Koru.

TG to AKL will change flights nos from TG989/990 to TG491/492 from October 25th.


User currently offlineTG990 From New Zealand, joined Sep 2005, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 19237 times:

Jetconnect/Qantas is replacing all of its 737-300/400's with the new (fresh from Seattle) 737-800's.

The first should arrive Sep 1st ZK-ZQA, with ZK-ZQB and ZK-ZQC arriving within the month. Plan is to have 6 aircraft (ZQD,ZQE,ZQF) with an all -800 fleet servicing the AKL/WLG Tasman flights.

AKL flights will operate the 800 more often, with the additional aircraft coming on line, WLG will see an increase.

Unlike the Qantas Aussie based -800s, these aircraft will come with PTV's which is sweet for PAX! Also new economy seats, which are onboard the A380. Idea is to bring the Tasman aircraft up to standard with all international flights.


User currently offlineSunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4932 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (5 years 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 19236 times:



Quoting TG990 (Reply 12):
Unlike the Qantas Aussie based -800s, these aircraft will come with PTV's which is sweet for PAX! Also new economy seats, which are onboard the A380. Idea is to bring the Tasman aircraft up to standard with all international flights.

Pressure on NZ to upgrade their main trunk service . Can NZ hold off until new aircraft enter the fleet in 2011-2012


User currently offlineAdam42185 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 413 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 19235 times:



Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 11):
I've heard of PAX being sick at night due to the white reflection of the Koru.

Bummer, thats really too bad. They look so great!


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6413 posts, RR: 38
Reply 15, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 18871 times:



Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 13):
Pressure on NZ to upgrade their main trunk service . Can NZ hold off until new aircraft enter the fleet in 2011-2012

I'm not so sure if it does put pressure on NZ to upgrade their main trunk service. Of course they can hold off. The 738s are only for TT ops as JQ have taken over the Jetconnect domestic services. The NZ A320s are still rather young and their product is great - IFE and service. It'll be interesting to try out Jetconnect's 738s on a TT run though, especially if they do have the same carbon fibre backed seats as the A380 has.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineSunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4932 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 18826 times:



Quoting NZ107 (Reply 15):
The 738s are only for TT ops as JQ have taken over the Jetconnect domestic services.

I misunderstood, I got the impression the new 738's would fly main trunk as well as TT. If not why would they register them in NZ?


User currently offlineAlangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 18793 times:

The lead story in today's Otago Daily Times was a call from Rob Fyfe that if Dunedin wants year round Trans Tasman services, the city will have to make a financial contribution to the cost of operating the services, year round. There is a suggestion that Rotorua is helping AirNZ with the cost of introducing their new services, though Rob Fyfe was not available for the ODT to confirm his comments.

Local comments are that the city has not be asked for a financial contribution, and John McCall's feeling is that much as the city wants the service, it cannot subsidise a service that is not financially viable. The local Chamber of Commerce might be interested, but these meetings just do not seem to happen. We had one AirNZ manager who visited the city in July, and all he did was complain on his Facebook page how cold it was.

To be honest, our city is just not a tourist draw card during the winter months when we are sliding down the frosty roads. There may be a handful of Dunedin people who want to go to meetings during the winter season - a brief peak during University winter break when the go over to Australia for conferences. Not even enough to give a reasonable load on an E-190. Interesting to note, when I check booking sites, the cheapest deals from Dunedin to Australia often involve flights from Wellington rather than Christchurch. Even Qantas flies us up to WLG on AirNZ domestic and puts us on afternoon flights Trans Tasman.


User currently offlineJaseWGTN From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 823 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 18758 times:



Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 16):
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 15):
The 738s are only for TT ops as JQ have taken over the Jetconnect domestic services.

I misunderstood, I got the impression the new 738's would fly main trunk as well as TT. If not why would they register them in NZ?

My thoughts: (Not always 100% correct)

Jetstar have started domestic now so no need for Qantas to restart.

They are registered in NZ as "Jet Connect" even though owned by Qantas is a New Zealand company and aircraft registered ZK require less flight attendants than VH reg'd aircraft.


User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5310 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 18642 times:



Quoting TG990 (Reply 12):
Jetconnect/Qantas is replacing all of its 737-300/400's with the new (fresh from Seattle) 737-800's.

Does this mean the 734s will leave sooner than planned which was within 2 years or so anyway.

Quoting JaseWGTN (Reply 18):
They are registered in NZ as "Jet Connect" even though owned by Qantas is a New Zealand company and aircraft registered ZK require less flight attendants than VH reg'd aircraft

I think thats right.


User currently offlineTG990 From New Zealand, joined Sep 2005, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 18460 times:

Originally they were going to have all aircraft registered as VH but changed their mind to keep ZK.

Actually, Jetconnect have opted to have 5 crew on all flights. This is the same as VH registered -800s with mainline QF.

The last 3 733s will be replaced first (JNC,JND,JNN) with the first 3 -800s coming in September, then the last 3 new aircraft coming in 2011.

So unfortunately the -400s will still be around as expected. Aim for the 73H when you book!

[Edited 2009-08-12 04:49:11]

User currently offlineRichardJF From New Zealand, joined Mar 2001, 792 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 18195 times:

I wonder if boeing could produce a shortened long range 787. It may well be a useful aircraft for NZ. It seems with the 787-8 they produced a similar plane to the 787-9 just with a few less seats.
With a shortened aircraft they could create 3 variants
1. A heavy 787LR with 789 engines (very useful for Wgtn)
2. A light shorter range version with derated engines suitable for replacing 752/762/A310 on transatlantic.
3. A corporate jet.


User currently offlineKnid From New Zealand, joined Aug 2005, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 18144 times:



Quoting RichardJF (Reply 21):
I wonder if boeing could produce a shortened long range 787

Maybe we should let them try and get the original concept in the air before any modifications are suggested.


User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1674 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (5 years 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 18000 times:

Air NZ changes to Rarotonga/LA service in W09/10

As per GDS timetable display on 14AUG09, Air New Zealand has addjusted its planned aircraft operation on the Auckland - Rarotonga - Los Angeles route.

Planned Boeing 777 service, will still go ahead from 20DEC09 (19DEC09 from RAR), but operates until 10JAN10 only, for 3 weeks. Original plan was until the end of Feb 2010



NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlineCHCalfonzo From New Zealand, joined Mar 2007, 182 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 17990 times:



Quoting RichardJF (Reply 21):
I wonder if boeing could produce a shortened long range 787. It may well be a useful aircraft for NZ. It seems with the 787-8 they produced a similar plane to the 787-9 just with a few less seats.
With a shortened aircraft they could create 3 variants
1. A heavy 787LR with 789 engines (very useful for Wgtn)
2. A light shorter range version with derated engines suitable for replacing 752/762/A310 on transatlantic.
3. A corporate jet.

A shortened 787 would suffer the same problems the likes of the 737-600/A318 do now, ie. excess weight, higher seat costs etc. There just aren't enough buyers to offset the development costs.

As for a short range 787, its been in the pipe line since day one of the 787 program ie. 787-3. Boeing have delayed it for similar reasons, its heavier than it needs to be and barely more economical over short routes than the long range versions. The costs of having an extra derivative in an airlines fleet aren't outweighed by the benefits.

The only answer to this is to engineer an airframe especially for this short range mission. I doubt there is demand at present to justify the development costs.



Piper power!
25 SunriseValley : In my view a re-engined 767-300ER would make a lot of sense. Remember what this did for the DC8 60 series.
26 AerorobNZ : I agree...there's nothing wrong with the 767 frame.
27 HLZCPH : Does anyone know where JNC,JND,JNN are going after their time with Jetconnect?
28 ZK-NBT : Mainly seems to be due to extra AKL-LAX flights in January Febuary where flights will operate 13 or 14 weekly instead of 12, meaning that the 772 on
29 QF175 : I was of the understanding that the abovementioned aircraft would be delivered with Weber seats in Economy (not the Recaro A380 offering) and Sicma S
30 Koruman : This is the 787-7 which I have floated in these threads as a good fit for Air NZ. The 787-9 order really seems to me to be the wrong vehicle for Air
31 NZ107 : Why not keep operating NZ1/2 AKL-LAX-LHR with the biggest planes we have? This scenario would take a lot away from AKL being a hub. I'd be inclined t
32 DavidByrne : Strictly speaking, from California to London, IIRC, but your point is still applicable.
33 NZ1 : There is talk about them being sold to another operator in the USA, but I haven't heard anything concrete yet. NZ1
34 Macilree : If this is referring to an air rights quota, it no longer exists. Both the NZ-USA and NZ-UK air services arrangements are open with respect to fifth
35 NZ107 : I guess that they'd put it on the list but UA's been a Star member for a while and we still haven't seen AKL-ORD flights or anything like that. And a
36 Post contains links NZ107 : Border deal to cut airfares This week is the announcement of a breakthrough for the TT open borders.. So passports might stay.. Maybe they should intr
37 SunriseValley : Is this also so with the new NZ- Canada agreement ? I have always thought that N.Z. had more to gain than Canada so far as fifth freedom rights are c
38 767er : Any ideas on whether NZ will still continue fo use the International Gates at AKL and SYD when the news TT domestic style arrangements commence in a f
39 RichardJF : A long ranging 787-7 version of the 762/A310 would be very useful for NZ and lots of other airlines as well.
40 Alangirvan : This is another of those planes that Boeing have considered. In late 90s, when they were thinking of doing the Sonic Cruiser, they thought about the
41 NZ107 : That's probably why they said they were most likely going to keep passports. I'd say it could work in a similar way as JQ's domestic flights with the
42 DavidByrne : I've wondered about AKL-IAH, too, but there's been no public suggestion from NZ that it may be interested. Previously, NZ has openly suggested that O
43 Post contains links Macilree : The New Zealand-Canada "Blue Sky" agreement signed recently and now in force also completely removes restrictions on routes, capacity (frequency), fi
44 Alangirvan : CO seem to have spent most of their time getting their joint Europe services together, with UA/LH/AC. I do not know if they have started to think abo
45 DavidByrne : I think that the only thing that would make an AKL-IAH service viable would be the huge hub that CO has at IAH. One the surface of it, it appears tha
46 NZ107 : After considering that, what are the benefits regarding choosing IAH over ORD? What has CO got that UA don't/can't offer? And would it be equally via
47 Post contains links Macilree : Re ORD versus IAH would better winter weather favour the latter with respect to service reliability? Not sure about congestion. The possibility of NZ
48 Mariner : I can't think of too many advantages of choosing either IAH or ORD over LAX or SFO. mariner
49 SunriseValley : to be known as EDTO in Australia and N.Z. Australia has adopted it and so far as I can tell from a search of the N.Z. CAA website, the revised AC 121
50 TG992 : When NZ6 used to operate a 16:15 departure time, I believe the operating aircraft had the following pattern: NZ101/102/6. This meant it left AKL at 0
51 SunriseValley : and leave it to QF to service those travellers who want prompt eastbound connections.
52 Mariner : Is it not easier to change the schedule by three hours than open a new and distant city? I've never had a problem with connections at LAX, but I've n
53 SunriseValley : I find it hard to believe that N.Z. originating traffic can support additional services to ORD , IAH DFW etc. etc.. I expect Australian feeds would b
54 Mariner : That was my point. But I'll go further. Why would Kiwis want to fly to ORD, IAH (or DFW for that) as their first US port of call? mariner
55 Alangirvan : It is the other way round - not about Kiwis or Aussies wanting to fly to these cities, but people originating in those cities flying here. And some U
56 NZ107 : Could it open up a triangle route instead then? Say when the 787s come they could operate NZ5/6 AKL-LAX-IAH/ORD-AKL and leave NZ1/2 to remain AKL-LAX
57 Mariner : I understand that is the argument in favour of them, but, to me, a decent market has to be a two-way street. I think the advantage is very, very slig
58 DavidByrne : I think that the discussion on the possibility of IAH being a "target" for NZ has implicitly assumed that any such move would be imminent. I can't see
59 Mariner : You didn't quote me, but I am assuming that the question was addressed to me because I am the one questioning IAH or any interior US. And I think you
60 DavidByrne : Mariner - to be honest, I opened up A-net after several days out of town and found a flurry of posts, and I didn't even register who was saying what.
61 Mariner : Ah, my bad. Or - my ego, perhaps. Just to end it for me, because I think the horse has been beaten a bit to death, I am very suspicious of this brave
62 Cchan : Maybe they can do better than Jetstar if they reintroduce the Qantas brand to domestic?
63 ZKOJH : jetStar reschedules Gold Coast - Auckland route As per GDS timetable display on 17AUG09, jetStar is re-scheduling Gold Coast - Auckland service from 2
64 Post contains links SunriseValley : This is apparently another of these A.net myths. Mexico is apparently less than Canada, Russia and some other jurisdictions. Mexico Air Nav Fees (by
65 SunriseValley : to add ,and in the FWIW department, the cost for a 747 for the about 800km across Mexico based on a AKL-IAH GC route and the pricing formular in the
66 DavidByrne : I seriously doubt that QF will switch back to QF domestic branding in NZ after all the investment made in the JQ launch. The reason that QF was dropp
67 SunriseValley : Which is well within the capability of a -200ER for max passenger load plus some.
68 DavidByrne : What I forgot, though, is that there woudl still be an ETOPS diversion to take care of.
69 Alangirvan : From a commercial viewpoint, you would hope there would be enough passengers wanting to fly IAH-AKL to support the flights. If you are using a 777-200
70 DavidByrne : There's no specific answer to that. But, if we look at NZ's peak summer schedule this year, there are about 6,900 seats available through LAX and SFO
71 Koruman : I reluctantly have to say that I strongly dispute the viability of any North American destination east of LAX/SFO/YVR. The whole point of those market
72 SunriseValley : I believe EDTO will remove that issue and N.Z. is about to adopt the Aus/ N.Z. version of this. So far as I can see from documents on the CAA web sit
73 ETA Unknown : LAX is not a permitted USA intermediate point under the Australia-Canada bilateral- I think HNL and SFO are allowed.
74 Koruman : If Air New Zealand as opposed to Air Canada operated SYD-LAX-YYZ it would not be subject in any way to the Australia-Canada bilateral, so long as an A
75 DavidByrne : Or, nothing to stop an AKL-LAX-YYZ service being twinned with a SYD-LAX service. But I seriously doubt whether NZ should now re-enter the very crowde
76 Koruman : Where is it crowded other than SYD-LAX and to a lesser extent BNE-LAX? No other route (e.g. MEL-LAX) even has two carriers on it, and MEL-SFO and BNE
77 SunriseValley : I believe there would be considerable value in instituting clearance of US Customs and Immigration in Auckland. No doubt it would take time and effor
78 Koruman : It would be terrific: I've done the same at Montreal and Toronto and greatly appreciate it. I might add that this is part of the reason I'm appalled
79 SunriseValley : Yes it would be. It would require that a number of gates would need to be secured for U.S. destined flights from about 3pm to 10pm each day. Probably
80 Mariner : In essence, I agree with you. The one possible exception I might make is the beautiful - and beautifully situated - DEN and not just because of the s
81 DavidByrne : The devil is in the detail here. There are a number of ways that a "domestic" TT operation could work, and I've seen no suggestion as to how that mig
82 Mariner : I can give you any number of cogent arguments in favor of Denver (or Mexico City), but few cogent reasons have been given to me as to why Houston is
83 DavidByrne : The way my mind works ("problem-solving") it seems to me there are several questions: (a) Should further growth in the market be addressed through gr
84 Mariner : I think I've already said that I dislike a diffused route map. I'm a bit wary of repeating myself. However, to expand on it, if nothing else, adding
85 Post contains links NZ107 : Your answer from John Key himself: From here: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10591864
86 DavidByrne : The logic of this escapes me, even though I agree with K'man that I don't want to see flights between domestic terminals - at least not in the case o
87 Koruman : I'm really struggling with the whole Denver v Houston issue here, for a number of reasons. I was enormously chastened by the failure of TN's one-stop
88 SunriseValley : Let me start the arguments in favor. I would argue there is a need for better connections from Aus/ N.Z. to destinations east of the Mississippi . QF
89 DavidByrne : I guess that it's always possible to imagine a change in NZ's orders and strategy - the "nimble" airline would of course be open to that and the oppo
90 DavidByrne : If it says anything, it says that pax from JFK won't fly in viable numbers on TN to SYD. I don't think that you can generalise the argument to mean "
91 Koruman : David, you have probably noticed that at present I'm easing back off a Hong Kong Koruhub and concentrating more on what the airline can do out of LAX
92 PA515 : There would be problems with the present schedule. The 763 would be on the ground at HKG for about 12 hours between the HKG-LHR and LHR-HKG connectio
93 Cchan : Transit passengers don't have to get off the aircraft at BKK, that sounds very good to me not having to go through security. Whereas transiting in th
94 DavidByrne : IIRC, I was the person who coined the term "Koruhub" in deference to your championing of it (and my belief that it was a fantastic idea). So I do fee
95 Post contains links Axio : "Transtasman travel protocols could take less than 10 minutes" http://www.nzherald.co.nz/travel/new...ticle.cfm?c_id=7&objectid=10592054 So the approa
96 Alangirvan : It looks as though Trans Tasman will not be as seamless as travelling within Europe. This is not the deal that will turn smaller airports into Trans T
97 NZ107 : Yeah. In a way it sounds disappointing but if we can still get duty free and save on taxes/surcharges, then it'll be good. MAF's $400 instant fine so
98 NZ107 : Does anyone know what this flight SC9822 is? It's on a positioning flight from Melbourne, arriving today in AKL after 1pm.
99 Post contains links JaseWGTN : SC normally is Skycare Website: http://www.skycare.co.nz/
100 Post contains links Macilree : Have a look here on the New Zealand Ministry of Transport web site and here on the New Zealand Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) web site. Airwork alrea
101 Post contains links PA515 : www.jetspotter.com Forum, New Zealand, NZ Aircraft Movements and Logs for August 2009: Embraer Legacy PT-TKD arrived from Essendon on an around the w
102 Post contains links Macilree : I may have missed something but the speculation I have been reading here about the merits of an NZ hub at HKG does not seem to have taken into account
103 Koruman : John, there are two reasons why this issue has emerged over time, and two alternatives which I have put forward at times. Firstly, when Air NZ announ
104 DavidByrne : I myself wondered exactly the source of the expectation that further rights would be granted. I wonder, however, whether the longer it takes the more
105 Koruman : The main reason why AKL-LAX-LHR has become a daily 744 while AKL-HKG-LHR is a five times weekly 772 is because there is a finite market to and from H
106 Cchan : Why not MNL then? Unless one lives near CRK, or finds a connecting domestic flight from CRK, or goes to nearby Angeles City to do dirty business, the
107 DavidByrne : I think that HKG's appeal lies partly in the fact of it NOT being a *A hub, yet still being a major business destination. The possibilities of "captu
108 Aerokiwi : At the risk of sounding repetitive... any progress on the new Air New Zealand livery? There's that image floating around with a predominantly tealy-gr
109 TG992 : As I understand it, the company's new image will be unveiled on the first 773 - including livery, interior cabins, and new uniforms. Makes sense to in
110 Koruman : David, the model I'm espousing could virtually be on an aircraft carrier! I'm talking about a major transfer location where Air NZ would have all its
111 DavidByrne : I understand and support the model perfectly - I'm wondering where a New Zealand carrier might currently have the rights that could enable that to ha
112 Kiwiandrew : I think probably the top 5 reasons ( in no particular order ) would be yield yield yield yield yield probably closely followed (again , in no particu
113 Aerokiwi : Ugh! Ages away! I thought they were removing the Pacific Wave in anticipation of the new livery. Then again, there are all those Air India 77W slots
114 Kiwiandrew : I believe that on an earlier thread someone ( it may have been NZ1 - apologies if I am wrong ) said that even if earlier slots became available NZ co
115 Cchan : IMHO, amalgamating the carriers into 2 in more practical. Mount Cook, base in CHC, to operate ATR-72 to destinations which need a higher capacity tha
116 Post contains links Macilree : Okay I will try a brief summary of beyond rights with respect to East Asia. New Zealand has "open skies" relationships with Singapore, Malaysia and B
117 NZ1 : Correct. The aircraft become owned from the end of this year. NZ1
118 Koruman : John Macilree's post about traffic rights opens one very attractive alternative Koruhub, and a relatively risk-free way of making it work. I'm not sur
119 DavidByrne : My thoughts exactly. And my sincere thanks to Mcilree for laying all that info out in one post. It must be one of the most informative posts ever on
120 Post contains links CHCalfonzo : Airport aims to boost airline numbers in a year Any ideas on who CHC might be chasing? My money is on Air Asia X. CHC has a bit of a history of workin
121 SunriseValley : Are these constraints lack of slots or time of day constraints? Just looked at a SQ flight plan from SIN-LHR. ; across India to near Quatar then to L
122 Koruman : My question is why Air New Zealand isn't using the highly liberal rights it has through Kuala Lumpur to the UK and Europe and from Australia and New Z
123 Aerokiwi : Um, probably because of this (from you)... You've made a big deal about the comparatively lower yields on UK routes via Asia, so how do you suddenly
124 Post contains links Macilree : Macau falls into the category of restricted beyond rights. There are no beyond rights agreed under the unofficial arrangements with Taiwan (Chinese T
125 SunriseValley : I cannot buy into the argument that YVR can be seriously considered in this context. It is hard against the Pacific on one side with the Rockies on t
126 QF45 : I like this, but I can't help but wonder if Air Asia X or any other airline for that matter found a new home in CHC that this may send one of the cur
127 Post contains links Macilree : I note the reported comment from Air Asia X re timing of services to New Zealand at the end of the second page of this 21 August 2009 New Zealand Her
128 Koruman : Aerokiwi, I don't think you're understanding what I'm advocating at all. I am stating that Air New Zealand should concentrate much of its long-haul e
129 Aerokiwi : No, I'm saying that it would not offer higher yields but it would expose the airline to an awful lot of unnecessary risk. what's the benefit? Higher
130 Koruman : You and I must live in very different worlds when you consider UK-Australia/NZ city pairs as a high risk market. The only reason why European airline
131 Tayser : ^ Air Asia is moving to 11x weekly MEL-KUL flights and MH is going from 2x daily MEL-KUL to 1x daily, 4x weekly MEL-KUL and 3x weekly MEL-CGK-KUL - so
132 Koruman : Tayser, your point is well-made. Especially the one about it being barking mad for Air NZ not to exercise the same long-haul rights beyond and to Aust
133 Aerokiwi : Apparently so. Or do we? You say yourself... So, let me see - European airlines don't fly the route because they can't generate sufficient yield - hr
134 Koruman : Aerokiwi, it's nothing to do with "ego" - I'd remove the Koru completely from those markets where I do think it is wasted - like China and Japan. If t
135 Kiwiandrew : I must admit that I agree with you on this one - I think NZ has a good client base ex MEL and BNE and really should look at ways to capitalise on tha
136 Tayser : ^ good point re: HKG. Also if HKG-LHR was an overnight flight (arrived in LHR in the morning) and the connections from MEL, BNE, AKL and CHC were time
137 Post contains images Kiwiandrew : an excellent point that is often overlooked - EK , for example , often say that any airline can operate a hub at DXB because the UAE believes in open
138 Koruman : Kiwiandrew, your comments about fifth freedoms are well-made but in many ways only reinforce further the value of multiple UK destinations, given that
139 Kiwiandrew : I really think that NZ needs a mainland European point as well - not everyone wants to have to backtrack from the UK to get to their final destinatio
140 SunriseValley : with the 77L you have a " made in Australia" solution..MEL/BNE-PER-LHR/CDG or whatever European city you wish to name. No need for a transfer in Asia
141 Kiwiandrew : I am not sure that a 3 x weekly service is going to attract the 'right kind' of pax to make this work. I think that you would need to keep yields hig
142 Cchan : Maybe it is also worthwhile to consider that while NZ cancelled 2x HKG-LHR-HKG per week, the demand on AKL-HKG-AKL still justifies for a NZ 772 to fly
143 NZ107 : Another factor contributing to their downsize have been the financial situation of MH itself. Also I believe that a lot of people heading to Malaysia
144 Mdavies06 : As a past flyer of the LHR-HKG leg of NZ38/39, I thought I would contribute my two cents about NZ38/39 and AKL-xxx-Europe in general. I am not sure wh
145 Post contains links Mariner : Whatever gripes anyone has (occasional or frequent) about Air NZ, I think two cheers are due on the profit: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...tic
146 Aerokiwi : Indeed. I was fairly peeved with the shareprice three months ago, but it seems to have recovered in line with the airline's performance in the second
147 Mariner : And I can still hope to see a small focus city in Oz - BNE or CNS, say. mariner
148 SunriseValley : [ I like the 22% increase to $1.6b in cash on hand. With leverage this could provide a variety of opportunities.
149 DavidByrne : I've followed the discussion about NZ's expansion options with some interest, and I just wanted to add a few observations: First, I think that it's fu
150 Mariner : It puzzles me slightly that the concentration is on the after-tax profit. Just about every airline - every company - is subject to tax, and many repo
151 Koruman : Why? These would be the AKL-LHR through passengers currently routed via Hong Kong and to a lesser extent LAX. I would have agreed at any time up unti
152 Aerokiwi : I've been wondering the same thing. I've been on 3 different news websites now and all headline different percentage drops in profit. Would be nice i
153 Aerokiwi : Still waiting to find out a. why NZ doesn't just put its code on the MH flights and b. how your scenario is different from NZ's Japan flights in term
154 Mariner : I can still think of several interesting routes from BNE or CNS - or even TSV. Nothing major, I'm not one of the Big, Long Haul advocates, I leave th
155 Koruman : a) Because Malaysia has far fewer links to justify Malaysian service to Manchester, Glasgow or Dublin than New Zealand does - there is a far better c
156 Leonjunior : I like your ideas Koruman. Are you in Air NZ management team?
157 DavidByrne : Yes, it's easy for people to think only in terms of "traditional" long-haul aircraft with perhaps 350-400 seats. But now we are on the verge of havin
158 QF45 : Would the following have any sort of impact on Air NZ's Japan flights? Wanting to take a trip to Japan from the Jetstar website, I have noticed that i
159 Mariner : Was there ever any realistic expectation that Air NZ would have acquired the A332? It is difficult for me to think so. mariner
160 DavidByrne : I guess my point is that by being the launch customer for the 789, NZ has indicated that it is not content with the "safe" strategy. The airline has
161 ANstar : They need this cash as the CEO says "However, this will reduce significantly during the coming year as we make progress payments for the Boeing 777-3
162 DavidByrne : They've certainly publicly indicated they will be going after the NZ-Japan market. As to how many NZers would actually think to use JQ, I think that
163 Mariner : I'm still not sure where the A332 comes into this. I believe - I could always be wrong - that the HGW version would allow IAH, or ORD (or DEN). But I
164 Post contains links Kiwiandrew : interesting item in the news this morning - it appears that New Zealand could be in the process of getting an 'open skies' type of agreement with the
165 Post contains links Aerokiwi : This is absolutely nonsensical. What "links" are you talking about? I'm assuming you mean cultural. So how is it any different for MH to fly Australi
166 Alangirvan : There was the competition that was won by the 777 order. Really, the original order by AirNZ for 787s was a tag on order for two planes, added to tha
167 Post contains links Mariner : That's odd - I didn't think the HGW was available until next year (it wasn't announced until last October) and Airbus seems to think it will have a r
168 Koruman : No, I don't mean cultural. My mother lives in Manchester, my sister lives in London and my nephews and nieces live in Scotland. I also have regular t
169 SunriseValley : From a ILFC filing showing the aging of leases on a per type basis and the notes to the NZ financial's this was clearly the case about 2-years ago so
170 Koruman : Air Berlin's decision today to cancel 25 firm orders for the 787-8 and 10 options really ought to be an opportunity for Air New Zealand. For those of
171 Kiwiandrew : John , are you able to provide any additional info regarding the restricted rights beyond HKG are they specifically for HKG-LHR only ? Does the AKL-H
172 DavidByrne : Agree, but the current reality is that it's only 789s on order, and I think it's unlikely NZ will jump into early 788 production slots at this stage
173 DavidByrne : They also served AKL-POM-HKG with 742s IIRC as part of a rotating tripartite arrangement involving NZ, CX and PX. It lasted quite a few years - seems
174 Kiwiandrew : Well done ! I had completely forgotten about that one
175 DavidByrne : When the DC8 service first started, the routing was outbound AKL-SYD-HKG, and the return HKG-BNE-SYD-AKL. Maybe for payload reasons out of Kai Tak?
176 Cchan : I am a bit confused here. Your model is that NZ flies a 787 or even a 77W on AKL-KUL-LHR return. At KUL, the aircraft picks up connecting passengers
177 SunriseValley : This takes me back about 45-years ago ; Bill Dunne who was NZ's performance engineer at the time explained to me how they had done DC8 take off trial
178 Aerokiwi : If you read the link rather than throwing in emotive and entirely subjective points, you'd see the Japanese have the higest total average spend of al
179 DavidByrne : The concept is that you "hub" a (say) AKL-KUL-LHR flight with another flight routing (say) CHC-BNE-KUL-MAN and another routing (say) WLG-SYD-KUL-MUC.
180 David_itl : Just dropping in for the MAN bits! MH did operate 3 weekly 777 (intially routing via MUC) before going non-stop and increasing frequency to 4 weekly.
181 Post contains links Mariner : And just as an update to that, it seems Airbus has found a few more miles for the A332HGW: http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre...ms/09_02_27_koreana
182 Knid : I was under the impression that the sort stays were mandated by the short holidays afforded to Chinese workers. I wouldn't breakout into the victory
183 SunriseValley : Other than KiwiAndrew nobody has addressed my proposition in reply 146 that PER should be the intermediate stop on a eastern Australia to Europe servi
184 TG992 : GCM says PER-LHR with ETOPS 330 and assumed ground speed of 920kph (is this realistic for 787?) would give a flight time of around 15h 46m. That surpr
185 DavidByrne : Yes, this idea has been canvassed previously on NZ Aviation threads. Going by K'man's figures (were these with a full load with appropriate reserves?
186 Koruman : I think you might be a bit confused here. I would stop the AKL-Hong Kong-LHR flight now that it has failed, leaving a five times weekly AKL-Hong Kong
187 DavidByrne : The principle is OK, but I'm doubtful that a 787 would be able to take off from BRS's 6,600ft runway with a full load for KUL!
188 Koruman : My point, Aerokiwi, is that it is generally accepted that when people talk about a VFR market they are referring to either unskilled first generation
189 Cchan : AKL-HKG-LHR may not be as successful as via LAX, but has this "failed"? The problem is that, some destination (LHR) are way more popular than others.
190 Post contains links Mariner : That isn't my quite my definition of VFR, but certainly they rank among the lower spenders -- at the same time making up an increasing percentage of
191 Kiwiandrew : I am not quite sure that a seasonal reduction during an economic downturn means that the route has 'failed' , on this basis you would presumably also
192 Post contains links Mariner : Part of that problem is reflected in the Herald today - I have no idea what metric various commentators are using for Air NZ's profit: http://www.nzh
193 MillwallSean : Whats happening. Can we try to think with business glasses on when we come up with these plans. Business glasses points to less service by NZ right no
194 Post contains links QF45 : I agree, I think that is remarkable effort by Air NZ. However I don't think I agree with the bonus the CEO has received. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/bu
195 Mariner : " target=_blank>http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...93679 Whoa! That takes me by surprise. I suppose it's the usual Wall Street rationale (excuse?
196 Alangirvan : People should not exaggerate the travails of doing a connection at Heathrow. Lots of people do the connection every day. Airlines like AirNZ and Mala
197 Kiwiandrew : it is interesting that you give those two as examples - earlier this year I had to connect BRU BD LHR NZ HKG , all through T1 and couldnt have been s
198 Alangirvan : Coonections at LHR should be better with Star and SkyTeam in their own terminals. I think T5 has settled down if you are using BA. I know some people
199 SunriseValley : I would expect Fyfe's bonus is based on conditions specified in his contract. In my view he either makes or exceeds these conditions or he doesn't an
200 SunriseValley : Westbound , I would expect the ESAD to be in the 8200 to 8300nm range which would give a flight time something over 17-hours. 920kph is too high west
201 Kiwiandrew : just wondering what would be the alternate on Eastbound , PER is pretty isolated ? Could that be a limiting factor if the aircraft needs to uplift en
202 DavidByrne : I agree - I think that the main argument is being diverted a little by extrapolations of NZ's strategy to a point where there's a lot of room for deb
203 Post contains links Macilree : Sorry but some of the Understandings we have with other countries/economies are "Confidential". I could only discuss this information with a current
204 Mariner : Yes, I am sure that is true, but there is still - worldwide - the contentious issue of CEO (and BOD) remuneration. This reached a peak of public revu
205 TravellerPlus : It is interesting to read the debate on how Air NZ should serve Europe. The main issue for NZ is not actually ASA's. The ASA's do make a difference to
206 Alangirvan : This is where Sky Team have a disadvantage. Oneworld can put people onto BA, and Star will use bmi. Delta has flights to some UK regional ports, so y
207 ETA Unknown : My two cents on Air NZ European expansion... the airline is too small to have a beneficial European network. Just focus on LHR, be it via HKG, LAX, an
208 Kiwiandrew : no problem , I would never expect someone to breach a confidentiality restriction true , but Skyteam are not really a serious player at LHR - let's f
209 Koruman : The thing is that Air New Zealand's traffic rights through KUL between Australia/New Zealand and UK/Europe actually surpass Malaysian's rights and ar
210 TravellerPlus : Or they could fly Emirates which is currently offering a 23 hour service with one change of aircraft. NZ would not be bringing anything new to this,
211 Koruman : At the risk of glorifying racism, there is another factor at play here. As you say, only Emirates currently offer one-stop services (and many two-sto
212 Mariner : I'm glad I don't live in your world - my heart sank when I read that post. I can only say that my experience flying Emirates from and to the UK is en
213 Koruman : It's not MY world - I'm happy in Australia. But it is a fact of life in the UK, where the British National Party now even has representation in the E
214 Mariner : You embrace and advance the theory, without any supporting evidence. Is there prejudice in the UK? Undoubtedly. There is prejudice in Australia (reme
215 ETA Unknown : As for the pax in BHX, MAN, NCL, etc... if BA doesn't want them, why should NZ??? Now about the touchy EK subject... I can confirm (and I used to work
216 Mariner : I'm sure some do. On a day when the United Nations has just slammed "entrenched racism" in Australia, I would be surprised if it were anything else.
217 Koruman : Because British Airways can and does dominate the lucrative long-haul market of 25 million people in southeast England, and all its executives are pa
218 Mariner : It was no Elephant in my Room. It had never occurred to me until you raised it. I interpreted it as you playing the race card to win the debate. If i
219 Koruman : Because this is a very specific British attitude (which thankfully is not universal) towards groups of people of subcontinental origin, and it doesn'
220 Mariner : It isn't specific to Britain at all. Are you unaware of what has been happening in France and Germany and even Holland? And we have ETAUnknown tellin
221 ETA Unknown : Being devil's advocate, I'm tempted to ask who in this thread would willingly fly Dhaka-Dubai on any airline serving the region... in economy! I would
222 Aerokiwi : Perhaps, but the FTA is likely to warm relations to the point where such restrictions are removed. Is this acually the case, Knid? Being the only one
223 Koruman : Sure, but this thread is about NZ Aviation, and I was explaining why many British passengers to Australia and New Zealand won't choose Emirates in a
224 Koruman : My comments about the luxury lodges are nothing to do with race, but were a direct response to your claims about the spending of our ultra-short stay
225 Mariner : Again with Emirates. I would be interested in any link to a reputable source that backs your claim. As noted above, I flew Bangkok-Bombay-Baghdad wit
226 ETA Unknown : Koruman does have a point- and I did chuckle when I read the PAR-NYC Air Algerie option! Everyone has their preferences, and I'm sure EK does lose som
227 Mariner : I am really wary of generalizations. My most toe-curling experience was on Air France - first class - when we were being served a beautiful, elegant
228 ETA Unknown : She must have been upgraded!
229 Koruman : Mariner, you are a broadminded and enlightened fellow, and I applaud that. But many other people are wrongfooted and frightened by things that are ali
230 Aerohottie : Not sure if race is the issue, or the correct characterisation... I can understand the "gist" of what K'Man is saying, but may suggest that is more to
231 Aerohottie : Colony carrier... my bad... sorry
232 Mariner : I have acknowledged there may be "an issue" with it. There are many "issues." On the one hand, you say that the negative attitude is specific to Brit
233 Cchan : I am not interested in going to DXB, but I flew BG a few years ago, on their Fokker 28 DAC-KTM return (economy only). The service was mediocre, overa
234 Mariner : I think we probably all have ugly stories at what has happened at various airports with various airlines in various countries. I've experienced some
235 ETA Unknown : Just to clarify a few points: a) Actually the problem EK sector for the Aussies is Australia-DXB... the offending pax are headed to BEY. b) It is not
236 Post contains links Mariner : Nor is it possible, usually, to fly with El Al on a Saturday - Shabbat. It has happened, of course, and they have served non-kosher food - once: http
237 ETA Unknown : Ah El Al and the shabat- reason #1 why private investors shy away from investing in it. Worthless bit of trivia: RBA used to serve ham sandwiches ex F
238 767ER : As much as I like Indians I have to agree. I was SQ in J and this drunken Indian business man kept snapping his fingers at the crew like they were hi
239 Mr Airnz : Kiwi's do this all too. Last time I flew NZ1 LHR to LAX, the Cabin Crew turned off the grog for a large group of Kiwi's sitting in the middle economy
240 ZK-NBT : I've not read everything in this thread but there are some interesting points some more so than others. Koruman, you seem very much interested in NZ f
241 DavidByrne : I find it very interesting that because one or two posters start to call the AKL-HKG-LHR route a "failed" route that it has now become accepted curre
242 Kiwiandrew : totally agree , I note that Koruman has not responded to my suggestion that AKL-SFO is also by this measure a 'failed route' since it is now reduced
243 Koruman : I don't call AKL-SFO a failed route because whereas it was carrying zero passengers until Spring 2005 it now fills five 777-200ERs per week - an incre
244 Koruman : I would LOVE New Zealand to be in the situation where there were high-yield destinations to serve non-stop, just like European airline can. But unfor
245 DavidByrne : I'd add to that that the discussion seems a lot more "real" when we focus on the destinations that have already been signalled by NZ - namely MAN and
246 SunriseValley : I would assume SIN-PER have the same issue on alternates. Apparently Learmouth (LEA) is one, it is about 600nm north of PER with close to a 10000ft r
247 Post contains links Axio : Well to change the subject completely - I just wanted to share my first trip on Pac Blue. See here: First Time With Pacific Blue (by Axio Aug 31 2009
248 Post contains links and images Kiwiandrew : I seem to have tucked away somewhere in the back of my head the idea that the 747s are all meant to have exited NZs fleet by the end of 2012 . Is this
249 TG992 : Air New Zealand is to operate a special summer charter service to help grow visitor arrivals from Japan into New Zealand. The airline will operate cha
250 Post contains links NZ107 : You beat me! Here's a link: Air NZ to operate summer charter flights to Japanese destinations Guess it signals an end to JL flying these routes, foll
251 Vfw614 : I think - with some exceptions - travelling with a carrier from outside the "Western" hemisphere can have irritating moments for those from inside th
252 TG992 : Excellent selling point. Compare 2005 with the current climent and demand. Let's not forget AKLSFO was also daily with rumours of a second service on
253 777ER : Got back home today after a nice 3 week holiday in the USA. Flying to LAX in Y+ on the B777 was a very enjoyable one as the newly upgraded cabin is ex
254 Mariner : We had a long, long debate about this, I guess you were away. I simply repeat - why would Kiwis want ORD or IAH or DEN) as their first US port of cal
255 SunriseValley : I agree, certainly on their second and subsequent visits. There are excellent tours in Eastern U.S. doing a variety of "must see" venues not the leas
256 777ER : As I said in reply #253, I've just come back from a 3 week holiday in the USA. Do you suggest a good connecton to ORD, JFK, IAD being a red eye fligh
257 Cchan : If that is the case, they would have sent a 763 on the 2 days they don't operate the HKG-LHR leg, or cut the AKL-HKG leg as well? It is apparently wo
258 Mariner : If I were on vacation, I'd do the sensible thing and give myself a couple of nights in LA. Or grab a quick flight LAX-LAS and have a couple of nights
259 Alangirvan : This is one reason why the Qantas AKL-LAX flight is a good idea, with an early arrival into LAX, it gives you all day to connect anywhere in the USA
260 Knid : If the logic behind a further port such as ORD, DEN, etc is that the connection times are inconvenient surely it would be easier to re time the fligh
261 NZdsgnr : Out of curiosity, what's improved in Y+
262 TG992 : Seat pitch/legroom has increased by around 3", there's a dedicated self-service snack/drink area, and the crew-passenger ratio has improved with the
263 NZdsgnr : sounds awesome, but we will still hear those moaning about the 3x3x3 layout i guess
264 Gasman : Precisely. I flew Y+ on a 777 shortly after it was introduced and where it counts - ie. cabin comfort - it was only very marginally better than Y. Th
265 TG992 : NZ were wanting 2-4-2 layout for Y+ when it was initially installed, but there were difficulties in meeting the specification timeframe and the certif
266 Kiwiandrew : to me it suggests that no one else of significance is offering y+ out of New Zealand - if QF start to offer it on AKL-LAX flights then I think we wil
267 NZ107 : Well you can book Y+ on QF25/26 AKL-LAX so that must be saying something..
268 Kiwiandrew : thanks , I didnt realise that . Do you know whether it is a temporary thing using some of the unsold J capacity ( I know that they have been doing th
269 NZ107 : No idea.. According to the website there is no J/Y 744 configured with Y+. unless, of course, they have started to use F/J/Y configured planes back o
270 Kiwiandrew : it doesn't actually mention AKL-LAX ?
271 NZ107 : No it doesn't but they are still selling tickets under Premium Economy for QF25/26 and advertising it in New Zealand. The other option if you want to
272 QF175 : QF is selling J class seating (Skybeds v1) in Zone B (Row 23/24) as Premium Economy on the 2-class 747-400s on BNE/AKL-LAX services. It would appear t
273 Gasman : Agree. Done it once and I wouldn't again. Which I why I deliberately sought out a 744 for my trip to LAX this Sunday.
274 777ER : Some people just simply love to moan and complain about things. The extra leg room makes it a lot easier to get past the others if your beside the wi
275 TG992 : Well, in a way I can understand. In the same way people travelling in Y+ have a greater consumption of dessert wines, cheese, etc than those in C, the
276 ZKOJH : Air New Zealand charter to Nagoya / Okinawa Air New Zealand in December 2009 and January 2010 is operating few charter service to Nagoya and Okinawa.
277 NZdsgnr : or/and have a very large behind
278 NZ107 : Woah that sounds like a heap of money! 100k per seat sounds really expensive..
279 Post contains links ManuCH : This thread has become too long and is now being locked. Please continue discussion here: New Zealand Aviation Thread #62 (by ManuCH Sep 2 2009 in Civ
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