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Impact Of EK/QR On India-IAH/LAX/SFO Traffic  
User currently offlineOjas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2980 posts, RR: 25
Posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6795 times:

Impact of Emirates in LAX since it went daily eff May 1st 09:

1. Outsold CX, AI, LH, BA and SQ to BOM from LAX. Has # 2 market share on this route behind KE.

2. Has third highest market share to THR from LAX after LH and VS-BD. Outsold KLM 2:1 on this important sector.

3. Is neck and neck with CX in terms of market share on LAX-KHI-LAX sector.

4. Dominates LAX-LHE market segment followed by SQ.

5. Ever since going daily, EK is the leader in mkt share to MAA/BLR/HYD/COK to/from LAX.

6. Controls 75% of O&D mkt share on LAX-DXB-LAX sector.

7. Ranked # 6 in market share on LAX-DEL route behind OZ/LH/CX/SQ/CI.

Impact of Emirates in SFO since it went daily eff May 1st 09:

1. On SFO-BLR sector, ranked # 3 in terms of market share; outsold LH and BA on this route even though LH has a daily same plane SFO-FRA-BLR flight operated with a B 744.

2. On SFO-BOM sector, ranked # 3 behind CX and KE in terms of market share; outsold SQ/BA/LH/AI.

3. Market share leader on SFO-HYD sector, outsold LH 3:1 and SQ 2:1.

4. On SFO-MAA sector, ranked # 3 in terms of market share behind SQ and CX; outsold LH/BA each by 2:1 margin.

5. To KHI, ranked # 2 in terms of market share behind CX. Sold 4 times more tickets on this sector compared to SQ!

6. To LHE and ISB, market share leader followed by SQ. Outsold SQ 3:1 to Northern Pakistan from SFO.

7. To THR, ranked# 2 in market share behind LH but outsold KLM and VS-BD.

8. Controls 80% of O&D market share on SFO-DXB-SFO sector.

9. Ranked # 2 to KWI behind UA in terms of market share; outsold BA/LH/KL on this route.

10. To DOH, EK is the market share leader followed by LH and UA-QR.

***********************************
Impact of QR in IAH since launch on March 29th 2009:

1. Sold more than double the number of tickets EK has on the IAH-KHI-IAH route.

2. Controls two thirds market share of IAH-DOH-IAH O&D route.

3. Sold more than 3 times the number of tickets EK has on IAH-LHE-IAH route.

4. Sold double the number of tickets EK has on IAH-ISB-IAH route.

5. So basically, the HOU-PAK-HOU sector is 65% dominated by QR since its launch.

6. QR is the market leader on IAH-BOM-IAH followed by EK.

7. QR is the market leader on IAH-DEL-IAH route followed by EK.

8. With QR adding ATQ to its network, a lot of EY's Sikh traffic bound to Delhi from Southwestern USA will shift over to QR if the state of Punjab is their final destination due to the greater convenience that QR provides with ATQ being an online station.

9. To AUH as well, QR is the market leader with a 26% mkt share from IAH since its launch followed by KLM.

10. All this is due to QR's extremely aggressive pricing structure in place in Texas in order to generate interest and create awareness of their brand in this important market segment.

11. Has second largest market share on IAH-KWI sector which UA dominates via its IAD flights.


A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3269 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6613 times:



Quoting Ojas (Thread starter):
1. On SFO-BLR sector, ranked # 3 in terms of market share; outsold LH and BA on this route even though LH has a daily same plane SFO-FRA-BLR flight operated with a B 744.

LH does NOT have a same plane service - it's never the same plane. They do however make sure the connection is made - even seen a special bus for "SFO bound pax" meet the inbound from BLR.



Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
User currently offlineOHLHD From Finland, joined Dec 2004, 3962 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6604 times:

Where do you get the information from? You have any reliable link or so?  Smile

User currently offlineYellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6290 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6591 times:

But fail to give us the impact of IAH-DXB on EK.

The facts can be misleading because EK is doing very very well on IAH. Upfront is usually Club Halliburton!.....Y is just gravy to them



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17770 posts, RR: 46
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6560 times:



Quoting Ojas (Thread starter):
Impact of QR in IAH since launch on March 29th 2009:

In fairness, DOH has a miniscule market size compared to DXB, so QR has to rely much more on connecting traffic than EK.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4823 posts, RR: 44
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6517 times:

EK's flight loads to/from IAH are indeed higher than QR in all cabin classes because their passenger base portfolio is much broader than QR. But to Pakistan and BOM/DEL, QR has carried more pax since its launch on this route than EK because of its aggressive pricing which in April-May 2009 was US$ 350 + tax round trip to BOM/DEL/KHI from IAH.

User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3269 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6464 times:



Quoting Ojas (Thread starter):
1. On SFO-BLR sector, ranked # 3 in terms of market share; outsold LH and BA on this route even though LH has a daily same plane SFO-FRA-BLR flight operated with a B 744.

So for SFO-BLR - is the order of market share:

#1 SQ
#2 CX
#3 EK
#4 LH
#5 BA

Does not "seem right" that LH is #4 in terms of market share on this route - I kind of felt they would be #1 or #2 due to the huge feed from UA ex-SFO, and the incredible connections they provide via FRA! Of course I don't have any kind of official numbers to back my statement which your number might be from a more official source.



Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
User currently offlineFlyingSicilian From Italy, joined Mar 2009, 1374 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6316 times:



Quoting Behramjee (Reply 5):
EK's flight loads to/from IAH are indeed higher than QR in all cabin classes because their passenger base portfolio is much broader than QR. But to Pakistan and BOM/DEL, QR has carried more pax since its launch on this route than EK because of its aggressive pricing which in April-May 2009 was US$ 350 + tax round trip to BOM/DEL/KHI from IAH.

Yet PIA did not make IAH work with the MAN stop. It didn't help that I never saw them advertise anywhere in Texas.

Thanks for the stats.

Re: IAH was KL AF beating EK before QR started IAH?



“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
User currently offlineCOflyerBOS From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6316 times:

Comparing QR to PK at IAH isn't quite fair!

QR is a daily non-stop flight to the Middle East onboard a 5-star airline. PK was a disaster waiting to happen with no advertising, the wrong type of equipment, and no rights to carry pax between IAH and MAN for about 90% of the time that the route was flown. I miss seeing the PK aircraft at IAH but I am happier to have QR instead.


User currently offlineAirIndia From United Arab Emirates, joined Jan 2001, 1653 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6314 times:

Well compiled stats. Informative indeed. Thanks.

Any particular reason you see why HOU-PAK market dominated by QR?


User currently offlineDirectorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1697 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6314 times:

Thanks for the most illuminatng stats.

Of course-this is all about yields and not about market share. QR could be aggressively selling itself on IAH-India/PAK routes, resulting in relatively low yields.


User currently offlineSQ_EK_freak From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2000, 1641 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6314 times:



Quoting AirIndia (Reply 9):
Any particular reason you see why HOU-PAK market dominated by QR?

Don't Qatar have more weekly flights into Pakistan than Emirates? I know we've been itching to gain more access, but I've only seen Etihad and QR spread into Pakistan while we maintain our pretty measly frequencies (measly by our standards I suppose).



Keep Discovering
User currently offlineOjas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2980 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6314 times:

Quoting SQ_EK_freak (Reply 11):
Don't Qatar have more weekly flights into Pakistan than Emirates? I know we've been itching to gain more access, but I've only seen Etihad and QR spread into Pakistan while we maintain our pretty measly frequencies (measly by our standards I suppose).

QR has 17 weekly flights ( KHI - 7; LHE - 4; ISB - 4; PEW - 2)

EK has 39 weekly flights ( KHI - 28; LHE - 4; ISB - 5; PEW - 2)

EY has 23 weekly flights ( KHI - 7; LHE - 7; ISB - 7; PEW - 2)

GF has 14 weekly flights ( KHI - 7; LHE - 3; ISB - 2; PEW - 2)

KU has 5 weekly flights (KHI - 0; LHE - 3; ISB - 2 ; PEW - 0)

G9 has 7 weekly flights (KHI - 4; LHE - 0; ISB - 0; PEW - 3)

WY has 7 weekly flights ( KHI - 7; LHE - 0; ISB - 0; PEW - 0)

* TG operates 3 weekly MCT - KHI continuing to BKK

SV has 27 weekly flights ( KHI - 11; LHE - 6; ISB - 10 ; PEW - 0)

As a matter of fact EK has the highest number of flights to Pakistan among the trio and QR has the least.

So if I were to rank it

#1 Emirates
#2 Saudi Arabian
#3 Etihad Airways
#4 Qatar Airways
#5 Gulf Air
#6 Air Arabia & Oman Air
#7 Kuwait Airways

[Edited 2009-08-11 10:31:06]


A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4823 posts, RR: 44
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6314 times:



Quoting AirIndia (Reply 9):

Any particular reason you see why HOU-PAK market dominated by QR?

Pricing...hence!...its about US$ 200 cheaper than EK both to and from PAK to IAH.

Quoting Ojas (Reply 12):
As a matter of fact EK has the highest number of flights to Pakistan among the trio and QR has the least.

largely due to them pouncing on Nawaz Sharif's initiative in 1997 to make KHI, Pakistan's only OPEN SKIES airport for all airlines worldwide. EK took up this initiative big time and have since literally wiped out LX, LH, KLM and PIA from KHI on routes targeting UK, Europe and Middle East bound passengers (with the exception of PIA's JED and RUH bound flights from KHI).


User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17119 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6314 times:

This is indeed impressive. EK is just "crushing" all opponents! And remember this is EK's first year serving the West Coast. So they are still relatively new into the market. It wouldnt surprise me if they added more frequency to LAX/SFO in the future, as they become the #1 carrier between LAX/SFO on the aforementioned destinations.


Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineCaliatenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1580 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5553 times:

Right now, as i see it..EK's service between LAX/SFO is the most convienent for travelers to the Indian Subcontinent. Leaving LAX in the afternoon and getting to Dubai in the early evening probably works out the best for most people. But the arrival time in BLR (3:15 am) is kinda a sour point with some people, but its ok for me (allows me to get to college in the morning). But my mom or dad couldnt do it; they prefer arriving either around 12 am or like around 10 or 11 am. The SQ flight from LAX with a hop on AI to BLR allows them to do this. I think EK is gonna clean up the market ex India from the west coast. Their amazing service and ICE system on board only sweetens the pot. You get to expierence a sweet 772LR all the way to Dubai. The A332's arent too shabby either.

User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4823 posts, RR: 44
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5541 times:

Please note that just like its YYZ bound flights, EK IS NOT entirely dependent on traffic bound to India mainly from LAX/SFO/IAH. It carries a lot of passengers from these places bound to DXB (O&D), THR, NBO, JNB, DOH, KWI, DAC, CMB, KRT, ADD, CPT, LOS, Pakistan and ACC.

This is why they are successful all over because of their ability to diversify their passenger portfolio base which EY/QR/KU have yet to perfect like they have from USA.


User currently offlineThe777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6637 posts, RR: 55
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5536 times:

First of all, very interesting information.

Quoting Ojas (Thread starter):
1. Outsold CX, AI, LH, BA and SQ to BOM from LAX. Has # 2 market share on this route behind KE.



Quoting Ojas (Thread starter):
7. Ranked # 6 in market share on LAX-DEL route behind OZ/LH/CX/SQ/CI

Just seems very odd that they are number 2 to BOM but only number 6 to DEL. Are the connections to DEL from the LAX flights really bad but much better to BOM ? It must be extremely disappointing for EK to only be number 6 to DEL from LAX.

The777Man



Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly....CI, MU, LX and LH 777s
User currently offlineOjas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2980 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5533 times:



Quoting Caliatenza (Reply 15):
I think EK is gonna clean up the market ex India from the west coast.

Nope that will not happen. There are star alliance, one world, skyteam members who would stick to their alliances and for many other reasons. And sooner or later Etihad and Qatar will join in, at the max in 18 months time.



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineOjas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2980 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5531 times:



Quoting The777Man (Reply 17):
Just seems very odd that they are number 2 to BOM but only number 6 to DEL. Are the connections to DEL from the LAX flights really bad but much better to BOM ? It must be extremely disappointing for EK to only be number 6 to DEL from LAX.

Its the converse, CX has poor connections to the US west coast from BOM. BOM,DEL have flights arriving at the same time in Dubai.



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineCaliatenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1580 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5508 times:



Quoting Ojas (Reply 18):

maybe..maybe not..lets see. If Etihad and Qatar join in, Emirates will slash fares..already they were pretty low this summer in economy. Problem with those alliance partners is that none of the Asian airlines really offer good connection times. LH, BA, and AF are better in this respect though.


User currently offlineOjas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2980 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5502 times:



Quoting Caliatenza (Reply 20):
maybe..maybe not..lets see. If Etihad and Qatar join in, Emirates will slash fares..already they were pretty low this summer in economy. Problem with those alliance partners is that none of the Asian airlines really offer good connection times. LH, BA, and AF are better in this respect though.

Well if you read the content above Qatar's entry into IAH did take away EKs market share to Pakistan, India.

You are looking only through the prism of BLR. Maybe not to BLR but BA,AF,LH in tandem with their multiple frequencies to BOM,DEL and also in cooperation with AI offers excellent connections. The departure banks of BA is different in BOM as opposed to South India.

DEL/BOM has wider presence of European carriers and have desi carriers into USA as well. Once the three gulf carriers enter a mrket they slash fares, make sure european rivals suffer and then fight it out amongst them.



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13411 posts, RR: 100
Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5436 times:
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First, very interesting information. Thank you.

I'm under the impression EK's IAH flights are full. Full to the point I'm wondering why they haven't gone 2X/day! Actually, since *all* of these routes have very high load factors, I wonder what EK's expansion plans are?

Its been noted that EK is replacing the 77L with a 77W to SFO! This will slightly improve their market share from that city:
EK Aircraft Changes For SYD, SFO (by EmiratesUK Aug 7 2009 in Civil Aviation)

I would be curious to know EK's primary markets from IAH too (where they beat QR, for those people are going somewhere).

Quoting Ojas (Thread starter):
1. Outsold CX, AI, LH, BA and SQ to BOM from LAX. Has # 2 market share on this route behind KE.

Time for KE to up-gauge BOM to an A388.  Wink Seriously, they are limited to 1X/day to BOM, so the competition is somewhat artificial.

Quoting Ojas (Thread starter):
6. Controls 75% of O&D mkt share on LAX-DXB-LAX sector.

I'm actually surprised they have 75% O&D to their home market. I would expect enough discounting to occur that it would have been near 50%...

Quoting Ojas (Thread starter):
7. Ranked # 6 in market share on LAX-DEL route behind OZ/LH/CX/SQ/CI.

I'm under the impression that EK is not pursuing the DEL market vigorously. Is it a low yeilding market due to the Indian airline hubs there (AI/IA, IT, etc.)?

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 3):
The facts can be misleading because EK is doing very very well on IAH. Upfront is usually Club Halliburton!.....Y is just gravy to them

When planes are 100% full, Y is its own profit center.  Wink

Quoting Nimish (Reply 6):
I kind of felt they would be #1 or #2 due to the huge feed from UA ex-SFO,

I'm curious how they're doing versus the alliances. For LH might fly direct from SFO, but a chunk of the feed will be UA. So to exclude *A feed to LH from any city distorts the impression. I have a feeling these numbers are on single airline trips. However, to India, I would expect a HUGE fraction to be on *A. Not just UA and LH, but AI (or is it IA international? Ugh... Merge to one code!). I would be surprised if *A didn't dominate SFO to India.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineCaliatenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1580 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5386 times:



Quoting Ojas (Reply 21):

I was more or less looking towards the southern part of the country. Yes, connections to DEL/BOM are excellent.


User currently offlineVincewy From Taiwan, joined Oct 2005, 767 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5346 times:

Quoting B747forever (Reply 14):
EK's first year serving the West Coast. So they are still relatively new into the market. It wouldnt surprise me if they added more frequency to LAX/SFO in the future, as they become the #1 carrier between LAX/SFO on the aforementioned destinations.

They should just send A380 to both LAX and SFO. The next wave of impact will be when EY and TK start flying to LAX, SFO, and IAH. Especially TK, they connect pretty much every major city in Middle East, Central Asia, and the subcontinent (I think DAC and LHE are also in their drawing board).

[Edited 2009-08-11 20:07:39]

25 AirIndia : most north indian traffic from DEL is bound for UK and Canada. North Indian community in West coast is not the strongest as compared to those from BO
26 Caliatenza : your def right on this one...huge gujurati and punjabi (ATQ) population out west though coupled with the south indian population. TK does not fly to
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