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WN Bid For F9 Official  
User currently offlineMrocktor From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1668 posts, RR: 50
Posted (5 years 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 17032 times:

Previous discussion WN Bids To Acquire F9 (Part 3).

Southwest is making a firm bid to buy Frontier Airlines out of bankruptcy protection. Source.

EDIT: WN press release indicates a cash offer of more than $170 million.

[Edited 2009-08-10 12:48:05]

271 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDL767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 16977 times:

This seems really strange, although this would give Southwest a better DEN presence F9 Just seems like a strange addition. I would have expected Jet Blue to bid for F9, I'm sure SW will get rid of the Airbus A320s as quickly as possible

User currently offlineSeven3seven From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 318 posts, RR: 23
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 16861 times:

You will be assimilated! Resistance is futile


My views are mine alone and are not that of any of my fellow employees, officers, or directors at my company
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 16779 times:



Quoting DL767captain (Reply 1):
This seems really strange, although this would give Southwest a better DEN presence F9 Just seems like a strange addition. I would have expected Jet Blue to bid for F9, I'm sure SW will get rid of the Airbus A320s as quickly as possible

It has been discussed to death as you can see with the three threads all well above 250 posts. F9 is doing quite well which I don't think anyone has denied. WN also said in the original release that they pretty much have no plans to keep the Airbus long term.

If you have time, they were actually pretty great threads with many valid and well thought out points.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2433 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 16703 times:

Great - more abandoned gates at STL. Just what we freakin' need.


Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
User currently offline413X3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 16608 times:

ahh the old tactic of buying out competition

User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25152 posts, RR: 85
Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 16550 times:
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Quoting 413X3 (Reply 5):
ahh the old tactic of buying out competition

As I said from the git-go: "If you can't beat 'em - buy 'em."  Smile

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinePlanePainter From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 56 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 16460 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 6):
As I said from the git-go: "If you can't beat 'em - buy 'em."

Sad but true. IF they win this, I sure feel bad for the employees of F9 and their families. They are the ones that will get the short end of the stick in all this. And I am talking about ALL of them, not just the pilots.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25152 posts, RR: 85
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 16418 times:
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It's interesting that Southwest raised the bid by nearly $60 million after they saw the Frontier books - and the lie of the land.

Republic was always going to get their $40 million DIP loan back, no matter who won.

Now if this goes through it looks as if they will get a greater percentage of the $150 million back as well.

Southwest offering a sweetener to Republic, perhaps? I always said they could do a deal on that $150 million.  Smile

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1902 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 16388 times:



Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 4):
Great - more abandoned gates at STL. Just what we freakin' need.

Are you really gonna notice that ONE more abandoned gate?


User currently offlineLogos From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 793 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 16355 times:



Quoting PlanePainter (Reply 7):
Sad but true. IF they win this, I sure feel bad for the employees of F9 and their families. They are the ones that will get the short end of the stick in all this. And I am talking about ALL of them, not just the pilots.

You never know, that reality might carry some weight with the bankruptcy court in Republic's favor. Technically, they're there to serve the interests of the creditors and, on the surface, Southwest's bid seems to do a somewhat better job of that. However, given all that's come down recently in terms of government involvement in the minutiae of running businesses (see takeover of GM), the potential loss of jobs may prove to be something of a trump card. We'll have to see.

Cheers,
Dave in Orlando



Too many types flown to list
User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2172 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 16228 times:

In poker this would be 'put up or shut up'. All ideas that WN was not serious are now gone as this amount of a raise pretty much ensures a win thru the auction. Republic gets more money back to soften the blow.

In chapt 11 since 2008 and unable to attract financing to bring the company out on it's own this appears to be the end of the road.....I am sure there will be uplifting words from both F9 and WN trying to boost morale thru these times so that the value of WN's purchase does not tank right off the bat but the previously announced intention is 2 years and out.


User currently offlineFleet Service From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 622 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 16143 times:

So when an airline goes into bankruptcy and people say "What about the employees?" they get shouted down by the "Creditors best interests!" crowd but now somehow it's the employees taking precedence over the creditors in this case?

Not happening.



Yes, I actually *do* work for an airline,how about you?
User currently offlineAirfrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2826 posts, RR: 42
Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 16085 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 8):

Republic was always going to get their $40 million DIP loan back, no matter who won.

Now if this goes through it looks as if they will get a greater percentage of the $150 million back as well.

No doubt. Republic is in a win-win position no matter what.

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 11):
All ideas that WN was not serious are now gone as this amount of a raise pretty much ensures a win thru the auction.

Why are we holding a auction then?

Don't treat this as a foregone conclusion. WN has deeper pockets, but cash is cheaper for Republic by virtue of their (insanely bogus) $150mm unsecured bid, and their $40 million dollar secured bid.


User currently offlinePlaneAdmirer From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 563 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 16043 times:

It's pretty sad in a lot of respects. I like Frontier, my kids like Frontier, and we fly them. My nephew calls me from the airport to tell me what animal is on the tail. Frontier has great service, great and pleasant crews, and has provided great access to and from Denver.

I like Southwest and have flown them with moderate frequency and think it is a truly great airline, but there is something special about Frontier that will be missed (yes, I think Southwest will be successful with that bid).


User currently offlineTxAgKuwait From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1803 posts, RR: 42
Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 15955 times:

First of all, Mariner.......I will answer your question. Yes, I think that WN is winning a war of attrition. It takes a long time, and it costs money.....but slowly and surely WN is taking market share control away from other incumbent carriers at DEN. United, mainly, and to a lesser degree F9.

Why would they want to buy F9? Because it is faster...and quite possibly cheaper.....to buy the preeminent position in the marketplace.

Looking in to my crystal ball, though, I don't see the dreary picture for F9 employees that so many people are predicting. WN took bunches and bunches of MuseAir and Morris folks in those transactions and this one will likely be the same. I am not totally convinced that Southwest will rapidly or ultimately fold Frontier....even though that is what their current plans may be.

First of all, I think WN wants Lynx. I think they want to own and operate their own commuter feed and the ability to acquire a well run and well equipped company with a good reputation is a good thing. As I mentioned in the previous post, WN is very picky about quality control and with Lynx, WN is at the controls. In fact, if it works, I look for a pretty healthy expansion of Lynx to feed WN at other "big stations." (We all know WN has no hubs)

I know WN doesn't want to keep F9's Airbuses indefinitely, but I am not sure that they won't operate F9 independently and simply replace the Airbuses with some of the B737-700s on order. I can see WN use F9 as a laboratory of sorts....put in a business class section up front, allow for assigned seating, maybe put a little bit more of a galley in so that meals can be served. Then the F9 subsidiary can be used for longer haul stuff with more amenities. F9 brings Alaska & Mexico. There's no reason why, with 737-700s, that they can't expand WN's reach to Hawaii & the Caribbean. The F9 aircraft could be equipped with life rafts and whatever else is needed to make them ETOPS capable. Yes, the F9 subfleet would be 737-700s which would allow for shared maintenance and reduced costs but could be configured a bit differently and used for a different markets.

Ultimately what we'll have is WN, looking pretty much like they do today - operating single class short and medium haul service within the Continental United States. You will have the F9 subsidiary, offering two class service, flying longer hauls than its sibling WN, and you will have Lynx which feeds both F9 and WN at several stations - I would guess Denver, Houston, and maybe even Chicago Midway. I'm not sure that they will retain the Frontier name....but I doubt they will be in any hurry to do so. I think you can expect WN to drag their feet when it comes to repainting the aircraft. They & American among airlines seem to live with a paint scheme for practically forever.

In the short term WN will do some interesting things with some F9 cities. The Lynx flights from Denver to Wichita will continue to Love Field and the Denver to Tulsa Lynx flights will be axed, putting all 737s on the Denver-Tulsa route. Lynx from Denver to Albuquerque will be axed in favor of another frequency or two with 737s, but they might just bring back DEN-ELP on the Q400s. Denver to Fargo will continue but they will add Fargo to MSP....or better yet, MDW. WN will not drop Akron or Dayton - but they will go in and add some BWI and MDW frequencies at both those stations.

Who will keep their jobs and who won't? Initially, very few folks will leave. F9 Res Agents will be offered transfers to existing WN Res Centers. Some will take them up on the offer, others won't. At a lot of outstations F9 employees will be integrated into WN staffing as far as Ramp and CSAs are concerned......in some of these places F9 has already subcontracted out their ramp work and WN will take over the performance of these functions....which will increase the workload, which will require more folks....so WN will certainly be offering some folks the opprtunity to transfer. In the end I'd be willing to bet that most F9 folks who want to work for WN will have jobs at WN. They could do a lot worse.


User currently offlineAirfrnt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2826 posts, RR: 42
Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 15928 times:

The ball is in Bedford's court now. He has a price advantage up to $300 million because of the unsecured claim. The question is, has he convinced any carriers that F9 is worth a few hundred million?

It's his game to loose. Even if he takes F9 to the very edge of what he is willing to spend, he either gets F9, or he gets paid very handsomely for his trouble from someone who is a rival at MKE.


User currently offlineKingCavalier From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 1304 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 15789 times:



Quoting TxAgKuwait (Reply 15):
Looking in to my crystal ball, though, I don't see the dreary picture for F9 employees that so many people are predicting. WN took bunches and bunches of MuseAir and Morris folks in those transactions and this one will likely be the same. I am not totally convinced that Southwest will rapidly or ultimately fold Frontier....even though that is what their current plans may be.

But, didn't WN say they want to only take 80% of F9's Airbus? Isn't that 20% of F9 aircraft that won't be flying and 20% less pilots, flight attendants, caterers, etc? It sounds like that will happen fairly quickly. You can't absorb that many furloughs into WN's existing network. That's just to start. What happens as other Airbus transition to Boeing? How many employees aren't needed at F9, and how many get the opportunity to work at WN? Some people will be okay. A lot won't. The majority of people who live in DEN will not be able to relocate. You mentioned reservations, how many people in LRU will be able to relocate? I think F9 employees in the smaller outstations will have a better chance of getting on with WN in those stations. It will be very easy for WN to take F9's 10 employees in BNA. That's the case in the majority of the F9/WN stations. I just don't see that in DEN (mechanics, res office, accounting, marketing, IT, HR, VP's, security, pilots, flight attendants, ramp, gate, customer service, catering, aircraft appearance, GSE, etc.)



Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25152 posts, RR: 85
Reply 18, posted (5 years 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 15752 times:
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Quoting TxAgKuwait (Reply 15):
First of all, Mariner.......I will answer your question. Yes, I think that WN is winning a war of attrition. It takes a long time, and it costs money.....but slowly and surely WN is taking market share control away from other incumbent carriers at DEN. United, mainly, and to a lesser degree F9.

I keep saying this and it seems like a waste of time to say it again, but Frontier has not lost market share at DEN since Southwest came to DEN.

You can advance the cause of Southwest all you want - and I respect you for it.

But I will always advance the cause of Frontier.

Two things are clear to me:

(i) that the size of the bid is an admission by Southwest that they have not been able to hammer Frontier into the dust - that if they want DEN, they must have Frontier.

(ii) I have followed Frontier intimately for over ten years. there will be a hole in my heart if they disappear.

Life will go on but it will be a little less rich for me.

And I think you should respect that.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4009 posts, RR: 13
Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 15729 times:



Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 3):
F9 is doing quite well which I don't think anyone has denied.

I do not dispute that but such a statement has to be it has to be qualified: Frontier is in Chapter 11. It is not paying for all its bills and Ch 11 is a dramatic step taken when companies are *dying*. Frontier is doing as well as somebody who got a heart transplant and is recovering quickly. That means well, but *vulnerable*.

Quoting TxAgKuwait (Reply 15):
(We all know WN has no hubs)

A question of semantics no doubt.



Stop pop up ads
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7577 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 15693 times:

This would be good for the city of Dallas. More jobs coming down here no doubt!  Smile


Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22924 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (5 years 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 15675 times:



Quoting TxAgKuwait (Reply 15):
I know WN doesn't want to keep F9's Airbuses indefinitely, but I am not sure that they won't operate F9 independently and simply replace the Airbuses with some of the B737-700s on order. I can see WN use F9 as a laboratory of sorts....

The question, though, is if it ain't broke, why fix it?

WN has thrived on simplicity for forty years. Simplicity has consistently made them money. What is the chink in that armor?

On a separate note, what happens if DoJ wants WN to divest 50% or 75% of F9? If I were a shrewd investor, I'd buy those assets, hire Sean Menke, and open Frontier II at DEN. It seems like WN would have paid a whole bunch of money for almost nothing.

It's a lot different from a hypothetical WN-FL merger, where WN could divest tons of assets and keep the crown jewel (ATL) intact. F9's crown jewel is all there is.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25152 posts, RR: 85
Reply 22, posted (5 years 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 15679 times:
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Quoting Incitatus (Reply 19):
It is not paying for all its bills and Ch 11 is a dramatic step taken when companies are *dying*.

This has been covered extensively in the previous threads.

Frontier has been paying all their bills since they made their turnaround and became profitable in November of last year.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineF9fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 696 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (5 years 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 15660 times:

Unfortunately, it looks like  tombstone  F9 1994-2011

Quoting Seven3seven (Reply 2):
You will be assimilated! Resistance is futile

 rotfl 

Quoting Airfrnt (Reply 13):
Why are we holding a auction then?

Because they have to. My understanding is that now $170 million becomes the base bid. If Republic wants F9, they then have to bid $171 million, and WN can then come in for $172 million and so on in $1 million increments. Now, from what I understand, Republic only has $94 million and change in cash reserves whereas WN has $2.2 billion in cash. Therefore, if Repbulic wants F9, they are going to have to get a loan somehow, and in this economic climate, good luck with that.


User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2433 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (5 years 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 15642 times:



Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 9):
Are you really gonna notice that ONE more abandoned gate?

With the massive (and deceptive IMO) cutbacks we've had, you're damned right it will be noticed.



Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
25 Sunking737 : IIRC doesn't RJET have friends with deep pockets? TPG or someone like that?
26 Mikey711MN : They may, but they also have an enemy of WN in DEN that just went and secured a lot of cash on a 17% note using spare parts as collateral. This same
27 Post contains links LoneStarMike : For anyone interested, here's the link to a podcast of the conference call held earlier today. LoneStarMike
28 EA CO AS : Yes, but it's WHERE the gate is located that's an issue - it being empty throws off the whole Feng Shui the airport had going....
29 TxAgKuwait : At heart I am a radical purist. If it were up to me, Southwest would still have a two tiered fare structure, no advance purchase fares, and people wo
30 Mariner : That's from a Southwest perspective, of course, and I think we all know why Southwest wants Frontier - and rightly so. The size of the offer is a hug
31 Wwtraveler99 : Due to security reasons this is not even possible as you must have a ticket to pass thru security. Why do so many here on A.net assume REP will get t
32 Mariner : I doubt they will get the full $150 million. Mr. Bedford has said as much from Day 1. But it is that $150 million which gives them such a position on
33 Cubsrule : On an abstract level, I agree with that sentiment. But the world today is much different from the world in which WN was founded, and yet WN's core va
34 FlyPNS1 : What core values has WN abandoned? I don't think WN has ever had a core value that stated they would never buy someone.
35 Airfrnt : I'm not sure what you are reading, but it's not my post. Please go reread the last three threads for context before making these kinds of posts.
36 N917ME : Maybe, If Republic were thinking smartly, they would entice SM to come on board and help turn us at YX around.
37 Tvnwz : New WN offer $170-Million
38 Cubsrule : They haven't; that's the point. They don't. They do, however, have core values about single cabin and single aircraft type (and, to a lesser extent,
39 Ridgid727 : Im not sure the judge will permit their person sitting as representative on the USCL to have any input. I would assume he will excuse them from input
40 Wwtraveler99 : Although I quoted your post it was not direct at you. As I stated it is directed to those who have said REP will get $150 million. As I said, many pe
41 Mariner : That may be true. It has been discussed - at length - in the previous threads. The point is only that the $150 million is what has given Republic a p
42 ConcordeLoss : A man can dream though, a man can dream.
43 Ridgid727 : Exactly, but when it comes to each group making presentations for the courts considerations, the judge will more than likely require them to step dow
44 Post contains links SWABrian : Before you specualte any more invest some time as Lone Star Mike suggested and listen to the podcast of today's press conference. The fate of Lynx is
45 Mariner : I think they have to be able to make their presentation - they're making a bid. Republic wears two hats - one as bidder - one as unsecured creditor.
46 BalZ18 : You know I'm sorry but I think seeing an A319 in WN colors would just be stunningly ugly... Or the Lynx Aviation Dash 8's for that matter. Just my opi
47 Dfanucci : No offense Brain, but after listening to that podcast, I feel like I need a shower. The whole podcast was summed up within the first 5 minutes when t
48 Tugger : You do realize that Frontiers beloved management put Frontier in this position by taking it to bankruptcy? It has always been: And even before bankru
49 Ramprat74 : This is off my Employee's website. Take it with a grain of salt. Analysts, Media Say Southwest Has "Underperformed" in Denver Southwest's bid for Fron
50 AirFRNT : Some notes from the conference call: The bid was always placeholder. The increased money mostly represents the bankruptcy costs of terminating aircraf
51 Dfanucci : *sigh* This has been discussed *at length* on why Frontier went into BK, and frankly, if you are not going to go back and *read* what was discussed b
52 Airfrnt : Some interesting notes. The Lynx stuff was the most surprising. They sound very enthusiastic about that concept in general. They spoke in hubbing term
53 Tugger : Read everything. *sigh*. They went in because of the almighty dollar: the holdback change could have killed them so to conserve cash to actually pay
54 Steeler83 : I am somewhat hoping for Republic to come out of this one on top. Didn't they acquire YX or make a bid to take them over also?
55 Dfanucci : And how is that managements fault? Get it? -D[Edited 2009-08-10 18:05:59]
56 Mariner : Which some might interpret as saving the airline. I suppose that one can argue the almighty dollar rules all our lives all the time, but Sean Menke a
57 MASTYC : I really didn't buy into the optimism about Lynx. There are some things that Southwest is going to say to appease people right now. If Aspen or Durang
58 AirFrnt : The fact that the BK wiped all of F9's hedges off the books, in retrospect, is amazingly fortuitous.
59 PC12Fan : Just be thankful that you're not having to put on our shoes bucko. Not all of us are as fortunate.
60 Cubsrule : My guess is that most or all L4 assets will move to Texas. They'll still be operating L4. They simply won't be doing so ex-DEN. TW was unable to assi
61 COA735 : Is there a rule saying you can't bring up something from another thread? Kinda annoying that you keep saying this. It's been discussed.... WE GET IT!
62 F9fan : This is the big of the whole call. Probably good news for the Denver back office (schedulers, trainers, general office support) people. I wonder if W
63 Mariner : No, there is no rule at all. It is simply that when something on the same subject has been discussed - at length - in what is effectively the same th
64 Mariner : Well, yes. Or - no? If Southwest wins at $170 million, I assume they then have to cut checks to other people for $170 million. If Republic were to wi
65 Atomsareenough : What I got from listening to the call (and admittedly, it was a little confusing the way they described it) is that their offer is a roughly 30% INCR
66 KingCavalier : I heard 43%, but I've also heard as high as 45% of the UCC. However, what happens with Airbus? Airbus will become a creditor under WN's plan. Their c
67 AirFrnt : Airbus already sits on the creditors committee. (ie, they were at risk day 1, so they were on the committee). There is also a leasee situation. How m
68 DL767captain : It seems like WN is almost buying the routes from F9, if they aren't going to keep the Airbuses then it probably means they won't keep many of the pil
69 Atomsareenough : It's not the name they care about, it's the airline. If Frontier remained the same organization and changed its name to, I dunno, Safari Airlines ins
70 Incitatus : Not true. Frontier owes unsecured creditors from pre-bankruptcy tens of millions of dollars. Not only Frontier has not been paying interest to them,
71 AirFrnt : Mariner's statement was exactly true. Bringing this up again, after three threads to discuss it in the last few weeks is exasperating. Legally no. Yo
72 AirFrnt : There was absolutely nothing other then innuendo to back up your position. In the airline business, trusting unions and companies is a very quick way
73 Swatpamike : Hello All Does anyone know what stations have F9 staff and what stations are outsourced?? Mostly I am looking at ramp operations. The only station I k
74 AirframeAS : Yep, the the Aleghany Mohawk law comes to mind. (Not sure if it is a 'law' per se...) So does this mean that the F9 unionized groups will eventually
75 AirFrnt : No. Nothing set in stone yet, but if I am a F9 employee in Denver, and WN wins, I consider myself on 2 year notice that my job is going away. Anythin
76 Post contains links and images Tugger : I do but I don't think you do: Management took the company into bankruptcy! For good or ill (I and I do feel it was the right choice at that time) th
77 AirframeAS : That sucks, I was under the impression that the F9 unionized folks would be having a job anyway. Ive already put myself on a 2 year notice. I am stay
78 Mariner : Sure there are filing creditors. Republic's claim, for example, was not made until about three weeks or a month after the filing. But Frontier has be
79 EA CO AS : Did you seriously just address another adult as "bucko" just now?
80 Tugger : Any group can take offense at anything or claim they are wronged by anyone. That's just the way the world is. We all see things from our point of vie
81 AirframeAS : To be honest with you, I have no ill-will against the WN employees at all. I do not blame them for anything. If my workgroup is going to be merged in
82 Mariner : I can argue that Frontier has good management. I think Frontier has, in Sean Menke, one of the brightest and the best. I think the turnaround has bee
83 Tugger : Quick post, I agree that Frontier has GOOD management, that made the best decisions they could for the company. I see that the way I phrased it was p
84 Post contains links Justplanenutz : Here is what WN says REP gets if WN wins: "If it loses, Republic gets its $40 million loan to Frontier repaid, a $3.5 million termination fee plus its
85 Mrocktor : These two are key points. To what extent can Republic "leverage" its own unsecured $150M (i.e. increase their bid while not increasing their cash out
86 FlyASAGuy2005 : Not sure. Even the big guy at Republic said they most likely will not get the whole $150M... WN is BIG. In fact, they are HUGE. The largest domestic
87 Steveswa737 : I dont believe anyone at SWA said "How dare they want our jobs..etc" But nice job trying to add fuel to the fire with your melodramatic statments.
88 AirFrnt : Steveswa737, You are opening the door to this. I have been, honestly, disgusted at some of the comments I have seen at Pilot forums and the Southwest
89 Atomsareenough : Sure, but considering the situation, I'm sure most F9 fans will vastly prefer "no guarantee that it will happen" (Republic) over "virtual guarantee t
90 JustPlaneNutz : In the same article, WN says the bulk of their additional bid amount goes to cover costs to the BK estate of the Airbi lease terminations. So, assumi
91 Mrocktor : This is EXACTLY what I was looking for! WN's bid, ex-Airbus cancellation costs, is actually no higher than REP's. Since the lease holders and Airbus
92 AirFrnt : This is incorrect. Please go look at my post, when I mention that Republic would pay out at 8cents per dollar for unsecured claims, WN at 12 cents.
93 KingCavalier : I just received a call from someone who said they just saw on the news that Virgin America wants to buy 40 of the Airbus. Has anyone else heard this?
94 Post contains links MSYtristar : Here's a report on it from the Denver Business Journal... http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/stories/2009/08/10/daily23.html
95 Post contains links Alphascan : And another from Bloomberg talking about expansion:: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=apddxhMf1S6Q
96 AirFrnt : " target=_blank>http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/st....html This is important, because it means the aircraft lessors might not be as worried about w
97 Barney Captain : If you're going to quote someone, you might want to include ALL of what they wrote to not exclude some of the more pertinent information. Let me help
98 Cubsrule : How, exactly, would picking up a handful of DH4s - something WN could have done on its own - effect this enormous transformation you are envisioning?
99 JustPlaneNutz : AirFrnt is correct--I overstated by saying WN needed to bid $50 million higher to compare apples to apples with the REP bid. The real number would be
100 Dfanucci : Heh... Wonder what WN thinks about it... WN may swallow Frontier, but they may end up battling Virgin in the end, and I would venture to say that a w
101 AirframeAS : Thanks for sharing those posts, AirFrnt. Some of those posts makes me angry. We at F9 did not sign up for this kind of deal here. So this is not our
102 Barney Captain : Airframe, I can assure you that we ALL want this to work out for the best for everyone. Some of the "quotes" being attributed to us are, by the poste
103 Enilria : Yes, there has to be an immediate 20% layoff. They may say otherwise, but that has to be a fact. It's only a waste of time because it is false. I've
104 FlyASAGuy2005 : I wasn't soley talking about Lynx.
105 Post contains images Mrocktor : Math doesn't add up. 12 cents on the dollar from WN means Republic gets $18M and "everyone else" gets another $18-20M (assuming that approximately 50
106 AirframeAS : Ok, fair enough. But it is still sick to see those posts. Those people who made such posts are punishing us for what is going on when we did not do a
107 Barney Captain : On the very thread that was quoted as being a WN employee when in fact it wasn't, were some incredibly immature comments being made by (apparently) a
108 AirFrnt : Don't get angry. There are stupid people everywhere, and that includes WN, as much as they seem to believe that they walk on water. As I mentioned se
109 Mrocktor : This is the best I can untangle the situation: TLDR There seems to be ~$18M worth of fleet replacement costs packaged into the WN bid. There seems to
110 AirFrnt : As someone else pointed out above, they think the number is actually 49 percent, not 30%.[Edited 2009-08-11 09:26:43]
111 Floorrunner : Mariner's statement is not true. Until they filed for bankruptcy they owed those debts and legally avoided paying them by filing bankruptcy. If they
112 Amatiel : "how would YOU feel if the acquiring company said that they would throw everyone at the airline being bought out on the street??" No one at Southwest
113 Cubsrule : Then what were you talking about? A new fleet type? A two-class cabin?
114 Alias1024 : I'm curious. Why do you feel Repubic has the inside track to acquire Lynx?
115 Cubsrule : WN is going to owe Republic some amount of money. Giving them L4 would kill two birds with one stone if WN does not intend to operate L4 itself.
116 ExFATboy : Setting aside the question of whether B6 could afford it in the current financial climate, it just wouldn't make sense for them at this point - they'
117 Mrocktor : My numbers add up. Here is an apples to apples comparison assuming the breakdown here: Secured creditors (Republic): WN bid: $43.5M RAH bid: $40M Uns
118 Cubsrule : I don't know that the lack of customer loyalty is a given. Certainly, if DEN customers perceive that WN "killed" F9, they might be open to trying an
119 Amatiel : Mrocktor- In Republic's conference call they state that their bid will give them something like $13-14mil from the unsecured portion.
120 Alias1024 : Or they can take the proceeds from selling L4 and use that money to pay what they will owe Republic. If they can get greater value from another airli
121 Access-Air : Okay without reading all the comments about just F9 and WN above, I wonder how the Southwest effect will effect the likes of LYNX and Great Lakes who
122 Atomsareenough : Just because the numbers look pretty a certain way doesn't change the underlying fact, though. It's possible that Republic is 49% of the unsecured cr
123 Alias1024 : Southwest has said they intend for Lynx to continue operating. They have not decided whether they will operate it themselves, or sell it to as they c
124 Cubsrule : Not necessarily. Say L4 is worth $15 million and WN owes Republic $50 million. Republic could agree to take L4 and $30 million to satisfy the debt. T
125 Post contains links Mrocktor : A $13M out of the $28,75M (source) set aside in their bid for unsecured creditors would be a 45% share. The total (since Republic's claim is $150M) w
126 Mrocktor : Yes! My numbers are ALL speculation!
127 Steveswa737 : That's funny, I've also heard someone on this forum refer to SWA as the cancer of the industry. My point is.... one persons opinion does not represen
128 Dfanucci : Very true, but most customers know beforehand what they are getting onboard that aircraft. My hatred of this buyout comes down to service. WN's servi
129 Alias1024 : L4 is worth whatever the highest bidder is willing to pay for it. Under your scenario, they would be worth $20 million ($50 million - $30 million), n
130 Atomsareenough : That portion of the call was pretty confused, between the questioner and the two Southwest representatives responding and all sort of talking over ea
131 Mrocktor : Thanks! In this case my second breakdown where I assumed 45% (Reply 125) is probably closer to the truth.
132 AirFrnt : You used the word "don't beleive anyone." At which point it's fairly easy to guess the outcome. Not posting them is in your best interest, and in Sou
133 MSYtristar : As much as I hate to see this deal go through (if it goes through, which it sounds like it will), WN isn't as bad in terms of in flight service as yo
134 PRAirbus : What a SHAME! SWA will eliminate F9's nice product (LiveTV and comfortable Airbus fleet) Wonder why B6 did not bid for F9...they would have complement
135 Steveswa737 : Obviously, your not a big fan of open seating. That's cool! Its not for everyone and I'm not gonna sit here and pretend that it is. Its a love it or
136 Tugger : I understand that sentiment completely. But in fairness you could have also included a balanced selection of the posts so as to not enflame things to
137 AirplaneBoy : AirFrnt, I think that there are many people who are still confused about the ATA deal with WN. Remember, TZ was not acquired by WN. WN provided them w
138 Richbpor : Tell me it is not so, The last company I want to see to buy Frontier is Southwest, I flew then from PDX to DFW in February, I like the classic fare an
139 F9Animal : This is not what I wanted to see happen to F9. Republic could raise the bid, if they wanted. I still prefer to see Republic take Frontier on.
140 Tugger : Incorrect. Southwest will not force you to buy an extra seat if you can: Additionally they do not charge it (or refund it) if there is one open seat
141 MSYtristar : Trust me, you're not the only one.
142 Post contains links Mariner : And you keep making that claim. The business world thinks differently. From: http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/...m?chan=rss_topEmailedStories_ssi_
143 IgneousRocks : Perhaps what gets old is the over-glossing Frontier's success while it operates under the protection of the bankruptcy code. Poor Chicago Express did
144 Dfanucci : Okay, ya got me with the "fight it out" statement. It was more of a "just find a seat and sit there" type of situation. Six of us on an important bui
145 Enilria : Maybe not "give them", but Lynx was certainly a big part of REP's interest since it fits REP's existing business model. Additionally, SM has said tha
146 Flashmeister : I don't know the precise details, but I've heard that the workforce integration of Morris Air employees into Southwest was controversial, at least fr
147 Tugger : One question I have is: Will there be any place for Sean Menke (and key management) in Southwest if they do succeed in buying it? I know that many her
148 Sldispatcher : Does Continental have any say so in the gates at DEN? I thought someone said those were leased to F9? What a big deal that would be if they became the
149 VictorKilo : Flawed logic. You are assuming that the maximum value that Lynx can create is through this one deal. If and only if that is the case, ownership by th
150 Mariner : That's quite a big question. I assume he would stay with Southwest for a while, but given what he has achieved I can't see him being all that happy i
151 Mariner : So if it is "legally true" - how is my statement not true? Whether you like the "morality" of Chapter 11 or not - and I don't - it is the law of the
152 Amatiel : Mariner- I think it has to do with how people perceive bankruptcy. You are arguing that they have been paying all of their bills while others see the
153 Flashmeister : I'd be surprised to see SM stick around Southwest for very long, if at all (although if he took a golden parachute, I'd imagine that a noncompete for
154 Cubsrule : Actually, cash is the key-- not all airlines have a lot of cash lying around. In order to get L4 for $25 million, Republic would have to part with le
155 AirFrnt : If Southwest wants to pay me to be a PR agent for them, then I will be happy to say nice things about them. If not, I call them as I see them. I have
156 Mariner : Well - duh. I'll make it easier, as I did in the previous thread. Please supply a list of those post filing bills - that is bills unrelated to the fi
157 ExFATboy : That's the problem with accounting - sometimes two things can be true at the same time! (And I say that as someone who's been an accountant for most
158 Amatiel : I'll make it easier for you...you originally asked for a list of what bills Frontier had not been paying in response to people claiming that Frontier
159 Amatiel : Thank you ExFATboy. Exactly what people have been trying to say.
160 AirFrnt : They have their own gates - 2-3 IIRC, but not beyond that. The old CO gates were released by the city once CO's sublease ran out.
161 Mariner : I use words very carefully, it is my living. It is the question I have always asked, as in the previous thread where the poster had not recognized wh
162 Gclaxdfw : I have to disagree with TxAgKuwait: "Ultimately what we'll have is WN, looking pretty much like they do today - operating single class short and mediu
163 AirFrnt : No, that's how you read it, not how he posted it. Be careful with Mariner. He is very precise in what he says. That being said, the WN "Frontier brou
164 Dadoftyler : You think Fox News is actually "fair and balanced?" Puh-lease...they're the quickest, fascist way to get informed.....
165 Post contains links Mariner : There are far too many "if's" in there for me. I tend to deal with what is. Examples: If Frontier had not filed, then the $150 million claim by Repub
166 Sldispatcher : Thanks for the timely response. A.net is full of helpful people..and I appreciate that. I realize that there is an ongoing debate over F9/WN..and I d
167 Amatiel : I never once said Frontier brought this on themselves "that's how you read it".
168 Amatiel : I do not feel like going through the 1000's of posts to see if that is true or not so I'll just say sorry if that is what you truly meant by your pos
169 EXAAUADL : I thought the seat limit was 56 seats? a Q400 has 70+ doesnt it? I dont think a Q400 would compete well with nonstops to DFW and even the one stops 7
170 Post contains links Wwtraveler99 : For 2008 it appears over 100 million passengers disagree with you. Can WN learn more from listening to their customers? YES, all the time. I believe
171 AirFrnt : Reductio ad Hitlerum. Nice troll. They would have to reconfigure, and at 50 seats, I doubt they could make money on it.
172 Dfanucci : Compare WN and F9 in Denver. Who wins? What I'm saying (which I thought was pretty clear) is that WN does *not* offer what F9 flyers are used to reci
173 Steveswa737 : How is it in my best interest? We are just 2 people with opposite opinions on a forum. Besides, how much influence do you think your anti-Southwest r
174 Sldispatcher : Why does it appear that most everyone here thinks WN has this in the bag? The money? The plan? Isn't there still a proceeding and board vote to go thr
175 ExFATboy : But since UA is the biggest competitor at DEN, it is largely a question of WN vs UA, since on a lot of routes (unless you want to connect or happen t
176 Enilria : So you agree with the logic, but you are saying that WN will also do the ASM purchase deal F9/REP has proposed? I would bet money that as long as Lyn
177 PlanesNTrains : To a degree, you are comparing apples and oranges. They are two different companies with two different approaches to doing business. I think it's fai
178 Mariner : I don't believe that I have ever said - or even implied - that Southwest was any considerable factor in Frontier's Chapter 11 filing. mariner
179 Huxrules : Hmmm- I have liked their commercials of late. The whole get out there and kick some ass - don't let the recession get you down. "Grab your bags - it's
180 Enilria : I was agreeing, not disagreeing. You said : "If it were not for Chapter 11, for example, United would be long gone and Frontier's situation at DEN mi
181 Mariner : I understand that. I am just making sure the point is clear - I am not "blaming" Southwest for Frontier's Chapter 11 filing. mariner
182 FlyPNS1 : Which one is in BK and relying on outside parties to control its destiny? If F9's service was so superior and their customers so loyal, F9 should hav
183 Mariner : It had little to do with raising fares - although good luck to any airline doing that in the environment that existed then. I thought the reasons for
184 F9fan : Well said. I can understand the fear and loathing of the F9 employees. While I can understand the fear the lack of information out of WN (other than
185 Ridgid727 : That of course is the same in any business venture where one goes by the wayside, and someone else steps in. It was the same when the "new Frontier"
186 PlanesNTrains : I think for a lot of people, flying Frontier today is like flying Southwest in the 70's/80's. They are the smaller, more personable "under dog" if yo
187 Mariner : I would imagine the airline who is prepared to offer most will win - "better" is a value judgement. mariner
188 FlyPNS1 : F9 was headed toward bankruptcy even if First Data had done nothing. First Data just sped the process up by a few months.
189 PlanesNTrains : Is this fact or opinion? If the latter, fine. If the former, I'd like to know when this became a foregone conclusion. Afterall, First Data has appare
190 ExFATboy : Some really nice BOB options. (And a livery that not only doesn't make my retinas bleed, but is actually fun! But that's just me.) Of course, assigne
191 FlyPNS1 : It's common sense. Look at F9's cash on hand, look at how fast F9 was burning cash and look at how energy prices were rising. The fact that First Dat
192 AirFrnt : Let's see someone hold your paycheck randomly for two months and if you go bankrupt or not.
193 FlyPNS1 : I wouldn't even come close. I could go easily a year without a single dime. Not to say I would like it, but I have the reserves in place. Any prudent
194 Mariner : That is not what Mr. Menke says. So it is an opinion, reflecting the overwhelming Conventional Wisdom that Frontier could not survive against Southwe
195 FlyPNS1 : No, it's a factual analysis that compares F9's costs versus its revenues with regards to its overall cash reserves. WN put some pressure on F9's reve
196 Mariner : Yet - once again - Mr. Menke says the the airline could have continued operating. And which process of cost reduction Mr. Menke had already started,
197 FlyPNS1 : And I agree. F9 was fine for another few months. But it wasn't fast enough and quite frankly could never have been fast enough given the rapid rise i
198 F9fan : Listening to the conference call again, I noticed something curious. About 49 minutes in, the WN execs boast that they brought low fares to DEN. Uh, e
199 Enilria : LAXIntl was raking me over the coals in the UA thread about the numbers above for DEN market share only being mainline stats, so here is the same pos
200 AirFrnt : Don't feed the troll.
201 WNCrew : I'm pretty sure they stated in the call that they wouldn't cut any markets... and that they would in-fact add destinations NOT served by either carri
202 LAXintl : Would not say coals. Simply pointing out an oversight. Thanks for the update.
203 FlyPNS1 : True, but WN brought in lower fares than F9 ever had. F9's fares were never terribly low in the pre-WN days. They were reasonable fares (and UA certa
204 Mariner : I would assume so. Southwest was trying to buy market share. But some of the fare battles between United and Frontier - long before Southwest came al
205 TxAgKuwait : It is all a matter of perspective. Let me give you a hypothestical situation. Well, it isn't hypothetical to me. It is real life. I fly on business.
206 Alias1024 : That assumes that Republic's deal was with Southwest. Perhaps it was to fly Q400s out of MKE for YX. If the deal that Menke spoke of was not flying Q
207 FrmrCAPCADET : Res credit card hold backs: Relying on income from flights that will not take place for the next month or two is about like paying your current expens
208 Mrocktor : To "protect jobs", as if keeping whole industrries full of zombie competitors who cannot ever turn a sustained profit were conductive to more employm
209 Enilria : They can think what they want, but the statistics are the statistics. The fact that "the business world" doesn't know how to calculate market share d
210 Cubsrule : But what story do those statistics tell? As WN increased its market share from zero to 13 percent, F9's market share INCREASED. F9's market share did
211 Mcg : Are the pilots really the key to deciding who owns Frontier? Both the RAH and WN proposals seem to be conditioned upon agreement with the pilots union
212 Dirkou : When is the auction going to happen? Any specific date to know the winner?
213 KingCavalier : FAPA currently represents 10% of the Unsecured Creditors Committee. It's typical for the pilots to have the biggest voice in airline buyouts and merg
214 Post contains links RedFlyer : Not sure if this was noticed in the prior 200+ posts (sorry, I didn't read every one of them), but Virgin America has stated they'd be interested in p
215 Cubsrule : They can, but they also could have bought a bunch of DH4s themselves if it were so important to them...
216 Alias1024 : Was the opportunity there before? That's what I'm not sure about. The potential codeshare with Southwest may not have even been on the table until WN
217 Cubsrule : You're assuming, of course, that WN actually wants DH4s...
218 AirFrnt : First of all, I take exception to "anti-Southwest" rhetoric. Every statement that I have posted has been true, with the exception of I missed a post
219 Alias1024 : Yes I am. They said during the conference call that they intend to continue serving all cities that are currently served. I think they're going to ha
220 OPNLguy : Last I heard, it starts on the 13th and could end as late as the 17th....
221 Brons2 : You mean Mariner?
222 Cubsrule : DL also said that when they bought NW... I take all promises made during merger negotiations with a grain of salt.
223 Enilria : Quoting AirFRNT All of the markets that are served by F9 and WN on Day 1. I was listening to the call again. He is very clear in the way he says "mark
224 Mariner : As we know it does. Perception often trumps numbers. This entire situation is based on perception, as Mike Boyd has so eloquently written. Good one.
225 AirFrnt : Yes, I mean for Mariner not to feed the troll. Southwest does not believe the same as you do. I am inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt. We
226 Tugger : Agreed. But imagine if they could make room for him and in fact a future for him in the leadership (I know that is unlikely). - Southwest. - but you
227 Steveswa737 : I wasn't implying that you are posting false information. You have made some true statements based on facts and some sensational statements based on
228 Mariner : Except that Mr. Menke has constraints on him that none of us have. Every public statement of his about Frontier is open to review by the SEC. Still,
229 Dfanucci : posted earlier by a level headed individual.... [Edited 2009-08-12 11:50:47]
230 ADent : Thought you said real life. There are several holes in this story. 1) You get a seat assignment on UA - are you Premier? Most of the flights I book m
231 Enilria : Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 225): Southwest does not believe the same as you do. I am inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt. They didn't have a go
232 AirframeAS : It's not just the pilots union.... don't forget the mechanics union. They still have a contract with the company. To add, if I may... that also means
233 Enilria : As I've said before the highest bid does not always win, but the blank check almost always wins. I think WN basically has a blank check for this. It'
234 AirFrnt : Republic says the airline will continue to operate as usual as a independant entity. Think of that as "we have people, but we will have to lay some o
235 Dfanucci : Have any "inside" stuff you can share AirFrnt? Maybe a nugget or two? I'm reading from a few Pilots that Southwest is prepared to sweeten the deal an
236 AirframeAS : I know, most people on this thread are missing that concept and fail to understand that. I disagree. SM has said that the value of bids money-wise wi
237 AirframeAS : Does that include job guarantees for F9 employees??
238 Mrocktor : And each dollar WN increases its bid is ~50 cents in Republic's pocket For various reasons I prefer the Republic option for F9 (not only because it m
239 AirFrnt : Neither of these statements surprises me. I really expected the unions to come back with whispers from a birdie from Southwest as to how many jobs th
240 Atomsareenough : I think that's a very astute observation. The pilots must be a pretty key part of this. Has it been firmly established to what extent Republic, as Fr
241 Mariner : I know how anxious you are about your future, but I don't think anyone here can answer your question. Or anyone anywhere, unless they are attached to
242 Post contains images Dfanucci : I'll take your dickie birds opinions any day of the week.   The fodder I recieved could have been a "gut feeling" or it could have been "rock solid"
243 Mcg : Two observations: First, it's not an auction in the traditional sense. Both parties make their best offer and then the UCC. management, and the Judge
244 Wwtraveler99 : QUOTE: Mcg (post #243) "First, it's not an auction in the traditional sense. Both parties make their best offer and then the UCC. management, and the
245 AirFrnt : That's not the case here. This will be a something a bit more akin to a normal auction process. Both suitors will spend a while presenting their bids
246 AirRyan : But why should they have any guarantee because as it is, the only guarantee that they now have is that they will liquidate under chapter seven?
247 N917me : I feel for all of you at F9. I wish there was something we could do to help. If WN does win, I really hope Republic does everything it can to entice S
248 Cubsrule : Each of those except (8) also has to occur with a Republic purchase, though Republic has already started the DoJ process, so they could have clearanc
249 Tugger : Can anyone tell me exactly what Republic's stated plan is for Frontier? The only things I can find are that Frontier would become a wholly-owned subsi
250 Mcg : See post 213: The two proposals are too complex and too different to have a traditional auction that ends with the auctioneer saying "SOLD!". The pro
251 Enilria : If it is a true auction, I think WN will pay whatever it takes to win. That is not the case in most Ch11 auctions. That's why it is an interesting dy
252 AirframeAS : Sounds like you support 5,000 folks thrown out on the street. If that is the case, then YOU alone can pay unemployment to those folks. Do you have a
253 Enilria : I'm saying that it is unusual to have a bidder willing to pay virtually anything to win. In the ATA Ch11, AirTran clearly had a budget, for example.
254 AirFrnt : Republic doesn't have a rider (to the best of my knowledge) that would allow them to step away if F9 and Republic don't come to a satisfactory agreem
255 AirFrnt : Watch this very very very carefully.
256 PlanesNTrains : IMHO: 1. Frontier is in BK. 2. Frontier must emerge soon. 3. Frontier needs someone to "support" (pay for) their exit from BK. So... 1. Until the gav
257 AirFrnt : I have seen this argument time after time after time on the WN boards The reality is that WN is trying to purchase F9's hard work. While that doesn't
258 PlanesNTrains : I don't work for WN. I'm not a WN fanboy. I don't visit other boards. I'm just trying to provide a balance of sorts between the reality - that there'
259 NorthstarBoy : Sorry, i won't really be sad to see Frontier go. I like the commercials, i thought they were very clever, and i like the animals on the tails, but the
260 KingCavalier : Wow, you had to pay a whopping $3! For one thing, the price for the DirectTV has never been $3. Second, how was the flight tracker worthless? Did it
261 Rampart : Frustrating, I'm sure, but I've certainly suffered through worse to give an airline a second chance. -Rampart
262 Enilria : The $300 million number comes from SM's mouth, so that is your source. Gary Chase, Barclay's Capital We believe the ~$1.3bn price tag could be justif
263 Mcg : The flight tracker is free.
264 Mcg : I'm relying on post 213 above. Given the fundamental differences in the two proposals I don't see how a traditional auctions where the auctioneer say
265 Atomsareenough : Seriously, you won't fly them because *you decided* to pay $3 for the flight tracker and then didn't feel like it was worth it? You didn't HAVE to bu
266 Cubsrule : ...except that, by law, they only have 30 days after the filing of the HSR notification to act. Republic has filed.
267 AirFrnt : It appears that the WN bid is dead, unless the court extends the auction process for a week. I am starting a new thread about it right now.
268 AirRyan : It's not like they would be the first people to ever be laid off in the airline industry, since when did they have a right to anything other than dea
269 Dfanucci : Hearing the same....
270 AirFrnt : This may be what kills this bid.
271 Post contains links EI787 : Please continue here: The Southwest Bid For Frontier Is Dead Or Delayed (by AirFrnt Aug 13 2009 in Civil Aviation) Many thanks. Any additional posts t
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