Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
"These Damned Planespotters...."  
User currently offlineN14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2607 posts, RR: 25
Posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 16275 times:

Recently, a planespotter took a series of pictures from an unusual*) landing at Hanover, Germany: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqGN63HI8JU

This started a hot discussion on pilots.de and one member posted:
"Warum müssen auch überall diese verd***** Spotter rumlungern ......"
"Why do these damned spotters have to loiter everywhere."

Another pilot said "we have to keep in mind, planespotters are everywhere".

And a third member (obviously a pilot) posted later, that he will no longer allow planespotters (how does he recognize them?) to take pictures in the cockpit after the flight.

My question is not about that landing. My question is if pilots really have a problem with planespotters? Maybe it's just a regional problem due to that LH-A320-accident in Hamburg, which was filmed by a planespotter?

Best regards
N14AZ

*) I will not make the same mistake and comment about that landing because I am no pilot and we don't know the circumstances (technical problems or whatsoever).

51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWILCO737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 8921 posts, RR: 76
Reply 1, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 16301 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR



Quoting N14AZ (Thread starter):
My question is not about that landing. My question is if pilots really have a problem with planespotters?

Well, as you see the planespotters make it possible that every landing or every incident is on camera or picture.
Maybe something wouldn't make the news or being discussed anywhere if no photo or video would be there...
But if there is a photo or video then the news will love to make a friggin huge story out of it, even if it is just a minor thing.

I am a pilot, but I won't judge on that landing myself. I wasn't on board and don't know what was going on.

 airplane 



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineJohnJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1642 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 16311 times:

Early on in my Airliners.net career (around 2004) I uploaded a picture of a 737 making an awkward landing, and posted a mildly derogatory comment with the picture. Quickly thereafter I got an e-mail from a pilot from the airline in question taking me to task over the comment, and some of the things he said were well-placed. I imagine that guy wasn't positively influenced by my posting, and he probably takes a dim view of photogs since then. I haven't posted a comment that reflects negatively on an air crew since - so perhaps that's my own little way of trying to keep relations between crew and photographers on an even keel.

There is some potential benefit to crews, too. I've had many requests from flight crews for copies of pictures depicting flights they were operating, and I'm normally more than happy to comply if their info checks out.


User currently offlineSmcmac32msn From United States of America, joined May 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 16292 times:



Quoting N14AZ (Thread starter):
And a third member (obviously a pilot) posted later, that he will no longer allow planespotters (how does he recognize them?) to take pictures in the cockpit after the flight.

Easy... they are the ones with the big dorky grins, a huge camera making them look like the Hunchback of Notre Dame coming up the aisle, asking "Can I see the cockpit?!" (No offense to anybody  Smile)



Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
User currently offlineMtnWest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2391 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 16294 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I think if the pilot in command had just turned and circled to the right after the initial turn to left when they were perpendicular to runway in the video and had a better line up with the runway, the landing would ve looked prettier.  Smile

All I have to say.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18713 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 16292 times:



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 1):

Well, as you see the planespotters make it possible that every landing or every incident is on camera or picture.

Then maybe you should land your plane correctly...

...or not be a pilot.

Nobody promised it was a low-stress job!


User currently offlineAccess-Air From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1939 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 16289 times:



Quoting JohnJ (Reply 2):
Early on in my Airliners.net career (around 2004) I uploaded a picture of a 737 making an awkward landing, and posted a mildly derogatory comment with the picture. Quickly thereafter I got an e-mail from a pilot from the airline in question taking me to task over the comment, and some of the things he said were well-placed. I imagine that guy wasn't positively influenced by my posting, and he probably takes a dim view of photogs since then. I haven't posted a comment that reflects negatively on an air crew since - so perhaps that's my own little way of trying to keep relations between crew and photographers on an even keel.

This is totally understandable. There are too many newby digital photographers that make un-educated comments on pictures of planes they shoot. They dont know the circumstances of whatever they are shooting and they drop all these cornball comments.

Ever see the mentality of some of the crap comments made about totaly normal operations of aircraft videoed on Youtube? Especially at St Maarten? Titles like Crazy Landing or Dangerous Landing....What hobknockers...

Just because you have a digital camera shooting digi pics (or if you are old school like me, slides or print film) of planes does not qualify any commentary.

I think the Pilot was totally justified in asking that ANY derrogatory comment was taken down from the photo. Unless you are sitting in the cockpit along with the pilot, you have no right to judge his skills....

I can actually see where these pilots might have a point. If they cant even go to work without a hundred cameras up their bums every where they fly, they might be able to form a lobby to ban ALL PLANESPOTTERS.....Once again a minority of hobknockers ruin it for the rest....

Thats my take on this...

Access-Air



Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12328 posts, RR: 35
Reply 7, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 16292 times:

I think that if I were a pilot and someone made a snide remark in a photo, I'd be pretty cheesed off, particularly when the photographer in question has no idea of the situation the pilot is facing.

Many pilots started out as enthuasiasts (although not necessarily spotters or photographers), so they should surely understand people watching aircraft.

I would hope that if enthusiasts see an accident, they would display some civic duty; making a statement to the air accident investigation authorities and letting them having copies of any photos they have. We expect the authorities to work with us and not try and discourage us; we can encourage them to do so by being "on side".


User currently offlineWILCO737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 8921 posts, RR: 76
Reply 8, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 16291 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
Then maybe you should land your plane correctly...

...or not be a pilot.

Nobody promised it was a low-stress job!

I never complaint at all. I was just saying. I love my job and I don't want to do any other job - planespotter or not.



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6271 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 16297 times:

As I learned early on, working for an FBO, many bizjet or private aircraft owners don't want the world knowing the wherabouts of their aircraft. I had a friend who was a photographer in college (well before digital photography, in the days when you had to have your film processed  Wink ), and I used to sneak him onto the ramp on my shift to take pictures (this was in the days well before the internet...). I got taken to the carpet when the owner of one of the aircraft received a picture of his bird on the ramp as a gift. You'd be suprised at how many tail numbers are blocked from sites like flightaware for thie reason.


Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineAccess-Air From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1939 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 16293 times:

People think just because they have a camera they are entitled to shoot pics of ANYTHING ANY TIME....Like I said, its always a minority of jerks that ruin it for the rest by exploiting something....I just hope that resonable minds prevail on this....

Access-Air



Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18713 posts, RR: 58
Reply 11, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 16284 times:



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 8):

I never complaint at all. I was just saying. I love my job and I don't want to do any other job - planespotter or not.

Sorry, that was a general "you," Wilco. Not directed at you!  Smile


User currently offlineMrocktor From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1668 posts, RR: 50
Reply 12, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 16280 times:



Quoting Access-Air (Reply 10):
People think just because they have a camera they are entitled to shoot pics of ANYTHING ANY TIME

Actually that is not an entitlement, it is a freedom. Unless they are trespassing or have contractually commited to not taking photographs (explicitly or implicitly - such as by entering publicly accessible private property with a "no photographs" sign), they have a right to.


User currently offlineJunction From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 766 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 16280 times:

This is a very fascinating thread. Are people really so insecure that they give a damn about what comment someone has in their landing photo? I would have never guessed this to be any issue whatsoever. Most people know the commenter is the fool and would overlook it. What else matters?

User currently offlinePhxpilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 78 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 16280 times:

Actually, I always thought it was kind of cool when my face would show up in one of the pics on ANet. It didn't happen very often, and occasionally I could only tell it was me by the view of my F/O. I would always wave when I noticed anybody taking pics in hopes of seeing my plane posted  Silly

User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21129 posts, RR: 56
Reply 15, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 16283 times:



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
Then maybe you should land your plane correctly...

...or not be a pilot.

Nobody promised it was a low-stress job!

The problem is that even if you do land correctly, you can get people who think they know everything about flying commenting that it was a dangerous one. Take this photo, for example:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jason Whitebird



If you're a pilot, you can recognize that as a technique for landing in a stiff crosswind. Yet there was a thread on here about it because someone was convinced it was a dangerous landing that the pilot screwed up.

So while I don't agree with the pilots that the OP mentioned, I can understand where they're coming from.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18713 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 16282 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 15):

The problem is that even if you do land correctly, you can get people who think they know everything about flying commenting that it was a dangerous one. Take this photo, for example:

You ignore them because they're idiots. You don't bash spotters because we stand next to idiots.  Big grin


User currently offlinePellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2221 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 16284 times:

Planespotters are the paparazzi of the aviation field. Nobody likes paparazzi and some of their tactics, everyone likes to see their pictures. I think they're awesome b/c we get to see the pics of course.


oh boy!!!
User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10369 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 16290 times:

I love that "Hitler´s 787 delayed" video with footage from "Der Untergang" on the same page...

User currently offlinePanova98 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 16284 times:

Hello! Dear Pilots!

For those of you who have just "fallen off the turnip truck," commercial airliner takeoffs and landings are events in the public arena and as such subjects of photographs. They are news only when someone thinks something may have been amiss. We know not why, though we love to speculate, but something often doesn't look just right.

When I stand at the north end of Washington National on a day with a very, very strong crosswind, I am amazed how often the plane hits the runway at a angle I think is a little off. When I'm sitting in tha back of a plane and see how far down the runway we sometimes go, I wonder. When the pilot slams on the brakes when we obviously are close to the end of the runway, I wonder. Sitting on a "big iron bird" coming into Washington-Dulles on a slow traffic day and the pilot suddelnly says to the tower, he/she has to "go around," I wonder. [When the tower asks "why" too, I wonder even more!]

Sure, you wish no one had seen that landing, and worse, photographed it, and worse yet, saw it make the intenet and the cable channels, but, welcome to the world today!


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21129 posts, RR: 56
Reply 20, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 16283 times:



Quoting Panova98 (Reply 20):
When I stand at the north end of Washington National on a day with a very, very strong crosswind, I am amazed how often the plane hits the runway at a angle I think is a little off. When I'm sitting in tha back of a plane and see how far down the runway we sometimes go, I wonder. When the pilot slams on the brakes when we obviously are close to the end of the runway, I wonder. Sitting on a "big iron bird" coming into Washington-Dulles on a slow traffic day and the pilot suddelnly says to the tower, he/she has to "go around," I wonder. [When the tower asks "why" too, I wonder even more!]

From the way this is worded, it seems like you not only wonder why things happen, but also assume that something had to have gone wrong for it to happen. It's that second part that drives some pilots nuts, because there are often perfectly legitimate reasons for all of the things that you mentioned.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineDvincent From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1736 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 16281 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 9):
As I learned early on, working for an FBO, many bizjet or private aircraft owners don't want the world knowing the wherabouts of their aircraft.

Hey, if I can see it, I can shoot it. It's no different than a car on the road. If you don't want your plane photographed, leave it in the hangar...

Now, I don't publicly post photos of jets that I am commissioned to do out of respect for my clients. When I'm on my own time, though, if you're landing at BDL or BOS, expect your photo to show up here (maybe).

Either way, I only make comments to enhance the photograph, and not to slag off the crew.



From the Mind of Minolta
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18713 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 16283 times:



Quoting Bramble (Reply 21):

But the commander of the aircraft has the final say on whether or not to allow ny visitor ro the cockpit.

Yes, but he also works for his airline. There is no such thing as "final authority." Even the President answers to people.


User currently offlinePanova98 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 16282 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 22):
From the way this is worded,

Sorry for the way you may have taken my words, but when I'm flying on some airliner, or watching them land and take off, I do a lot of "wondering." It's one of the joys of flying and taking in what I think is such a beautiful life experience. Feeling, or seeing the power on takeoff, taking in the earth as we fly over it [oh dear, that 737 flashing by us seemed awfully close], and how could anyone fly into SFO and not "wonder" about the plane landing side-by-side to the plane you're on, etc.

I hope you're not saying pilots never make mistakes. I know there may be perfectly legitimate reasons for lots of things, but I seriously doubt that any pilot lives out his/her career saying they couldn't have improved on something. Hope you pilots have lots of other things to go "nuts" over more than my "wondering" about your last "hard" landing.


User currently offlinePeterpuck From Canada, joined Jun 2004, 318 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (4 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 16860 times:



Quoting Panova98 (Reply 20):
When I stand at the north end of Washington National on a day with a very, very strong crosswind, I am amazed how often the plane hits the runway at a angle I think is a little off. When I'm sitting in tha back of a plane and see how far down the runway we sometimes go, I wonder. When the pilot slams on the brakes when we obviously are close to the end of the runway, I wonder. Sitting on a "big iron bird" coming into Washington-Dulles on a slow traffic day and the pilot suddelnly says to the tower, he/she has to "go around," I wonder. [When the tower asks "why" too, I wonder even more!]

You "wonder" because you don't understand what is taking place. It's ok to wonder, but when people make comments that are simply wrong, pilots become angry.


25 Ikramerica : True. Every pilot can misjudge an approach in wind. It's when they ask to go around or do a touch and go that you should be thankful that they didnt'
26 Mir : Pilots make mistakes all the time. Doesn't mean that everything that seems wrong to you is a mistake. -Mir
27 InnocuousFox : Wow... what sort of oppressive, dictatorial regime do you live under that you got so brainwashed? I don't remember receiving a list of restrictions p
28 AncientPelican : I recall many years ago, standing at the fence at SJU, at the very end of the runway. An Air France Caravelle was still turning on final from base whi
29 MHO : Just wondering, can you slip a B737 to lose altitude? The video is just a series of pictures, but it looks like that's what happened - nothing wrong w
30 NIKV69 : None taking since we all don't really look like that or do that.
31 Mir : It's certainly physically possible. Whether the airline allows it is another matter, but I can't comment on that since I know nothing about Germania'
32 KELPkid : Most ATP's would probably avoid it because a genuine side slip would make most passengers extremely ill, and I know from personal experience, that a
33 Ward86IND : I saw a Southwest 737 doing S-turns on final at IND. Nothing unsafe about it (I think it was to ensure enough separation from the preceding aircraft)
34 Wn700driver : Suck it up. It's not an easy job, flying a large commercial aircraft. But it far from the most stressfull also. Ask any waitress. You guys aren't the
35 Kleinjakob : I think the "pilot side" has to find confidence in what they are doing. If they did it right, there is no need to think about what others might have s
36 WILCO737 : I mean, we pilots are only human beings as well. We cannot do our job 100% perfect, just the same as every other job in the world. Mistakes are made.
37 KELPkid : I wonder if this is company procedure to avoid going around (seems logical, it burns less fuel than a go-around would). I remember once at ELP, when
38 IRelayer : I would agree with the pilot. Noone likes to be criticized on job performance by uneducated or ill-informed people who don't know the situation. Reckl
39 USAirways787 : Who do those people answer to? USAirways787
40 Blackbird1331 : N14AZ; Thread starter: No facts, only pictures. Maybe the aircraft was being flown by a monkey? No flight number. No report of wind conditions. No rep
41 Oroka : That landing looked aggressive, but not dangerous. I think that the people bitching about spotters have to remember, you can kick them off the airfiel
42 Asu : It seems that in the forum mentioned by threadstarter, the discussion was not inherently about the "evil" of planespotters but more so and opinionated
43 Keuleatr72 : I had a similar experience a couple of years ago at DUS. My Captain performed the landing on RWY 23R. The landing was crappy and he admitted it, with
44 YYZRWY23 : I can see why the pilot's would be annoyed at someone who could have little to no knowledge of how to actually land an airplane or the conditions bein
45 Post contains links InnocuousFox : I can... but then I'm in the video game business. Plenty of people who are fans of what me and my colleagues do. That being said, there are plenty of
46 TSS : I've told this story here before, but it bears repeating: After a remarkably rough landing at RNO, I was tempted to make a smart remark along the lin
47 AirIndia : In sports commentators sit in their AC cabins and comment on the players - "oh, that was a bad shot", "that could have been played better", "what a lo
48 Panova98 : Your post was terrific. Thanks!
49 EZEIZA : What if that plane had crashed? Wouldn't the video have been useful for investigators? Blaming this on spotters is BS if you ask me.
50 Post contains links MHO : In my opinion, one of the most egregious examples of second-guessing is the 777 pilot commenting on the A380 landing at Oshkosh on the AvWeb site. As
51 JRadier : Got to agree there. While it was a firm landing, it wasn't as hard (from my POV) as other people suggest, especially considering the circumstances. I
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
"These Connections Only For Airliners.net Members" posted Thu Jun 3 2004 22:39:06 by Ahlfors
"Dream Scheme" Drawings - Who Can Do These? posted Fri May 14 2004 00:12:33 by PanAm747
"New AZ" No.1 Domestically But No.3 Internat'ally posted Sat Aug 8 2009 07:54:12 by Pe@rson
NY Times Article: "Kingfisher's Troubles" posted Tue Jun 23 2009 11:50:43 by SR 103
Virgin Atlantic "25 Yrs" TV Ad posted Wed Jun 17 2009 12:34:50 by BMIFlyer
AA To End The SJC-AUS "nerd Bird" Route posted Fri Jun 12 2009 12:02:48 by MAH4546
Update On "new Eastern" (USA 3000) posted Tue Jun 2 2009 14:43:30 by MAH4546
Airbus To Deliver "upto 300 A/C" In 2009 posted Tue May 12 2009 09:27:37 by Bigsmile
AA To Allow One-way, "mixed Class" Mileage Awards posted Mon May 11 2009 02:35:18 by MAH4546
New Livery For "Cimber Sterling"! posted Wed May 6 2009 06:53:05 by Vasu