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Il96 (pax) - End Of The Road  
User currently offlineRIX From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1787 posts, RR: 1
Posted (4 years 11 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8128 times:

(Ignore if already posted) So far, didn't see any news in English, but several Russian sites reported that Russian Ministry of Industry and Trade decided to stop production of passenger version of the airliner. Not that this changed much, as only about 20 were produced total anyway. I remember how it appeared in Soviet newspapers, together with Tu204, more than 20 years ago, first new designs after Il86 and Yak42. They hoped to build about 40 a year - it turned out less than one a year. Needless to say, when by fact it's over for A340, there is no hope at all for Il96. Still, they will continue building cargo versions.

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4295 posts, RR: 36
Reply 1, posted (4 years 11 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8136 times:

That confirms the Zimbabwean and Syrianair plans to order pax 96s never went anywhere.
Is Aeroflot also withdrawing their Il-96s from service? On which routes can they still be found after september?



nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineSIBILLE From Belgium, joined Jun 2005, 479 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (4 years 11 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 7774 times:



Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 1):
Is Aeroflot also withdrawing their Il-96s from service? On which routes can they still be found after september

Cubana will use them for a long time.
Also some informations about a possible Nepal Airlines order but as orders from Venezuela, Syria, Zimbabwe.... I don't beleive it
 Sad


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7687 posts, RR: 21
Reply 3, posted (4 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7655 times:
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I understand the economics, but it's a terrible shame - such a beautiful aircraft. One of my all-time favourites.


✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineRIX From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1787 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (4 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7616 times:

It doesn't look like "stop immediately", one of the reports talks even about a couple of more arframes for government, but that looks to be it. It also says that two aircraft that were taken from KrasAir "for debt" are now under pre-sale update and may be delivered to Venezuela. It is acknowledged that at present Russia is not able to produce the whole range of airliners, so "let's concentrate on something to start" - that is, on Sukhoj SuperJet. Interestingly, they say that while no long-range widebody airliner is development, they widely co-operate with Boeing on 787 program, but "didn't find same mutual understanding on A350". One of the reports also says that they will still continue to work on mid-range widebody airframe - Il86 successor.

User currently offlineCessna172RG From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 749 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (4 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7550 times:

Maybe they can sell some to North Korea.


Save the whales...for dinner!!!
User currently offlineXXXX10 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 777 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 11 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7425 times:

I suppose they can't keep the production line open without sufficient orders.

Airlines have now access to second hand, modern, western built aircraft that were not available perhaps 10-15 years ago.


User currently offlineTurkish350XWB From Switzerland, joined Jan 2009, 476 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (4 years 11 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7348 times:



Quoting Cessna172RG (Reply 5):
Maybe they can sell some to North Korea.

Why???  Confused Nobody can enter North Korea nor leave the country... It's a little bit too early for tourism in N.Korea... And Kim Jong Il has fear of flying. He takes the train...


User currently offlineSancho99504 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 568 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 11 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 7286 times:



Quoting Turkish350XWB (Reply 7):

 laughing 



kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
User currently offlinePewpew320 From New Zealand, joined Mar 2009, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 11 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 7210 times:



Quoting Turkish350XWB (Reply 7):
Why??? Confused Nobody can enter North Korea nor leave the country... It's a little bit too early for tourism in N.Korea... And Kim Jong Il has fear of flying. He takes the train...

What? You can go there as a tourist with a passport from most countries!

http://www.koryogroup.com/

ON TOPIC

I'm sad to see the il96 go, I actually wanted to fly one but I didn't have the money to do so when in Europe.


User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 37
Reply 10, posted (4 years 11 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6954 times:



Quoting SIBILLE (Reply 2):
Cubana will use them for a long time.
Also some informations about a possible Nepal Airlines order but as orders from Venezuela, Syria, Zimbabwe.... I don't beleive it

Venezuela's Conviasa still has a high chance of becoming an Il-96 operator, as they have the two ex-Kras Air examples in mind and not new-builds. From what I know, the Venezuelan carrier is continuing to pay for the Ilyushins and they may still arrive as early as this October.

Others say that in spite of the down payments, the plans have been shelved in favour of the 4 CRJ-700s, and that as an alternative, Conviasa is eyeing-up the Air Comet A340-300s which would otherwise probably go the knackers once retired by the Spanish carrier.

ZXV



How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineTurkish350XWB From Switzerland, joined Jan 2009, 476 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 11 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6879 times:



Quoting Pewpew320 (Reply 9):
What? You can go there as a tourist with a passport from most countries!

http://www.koryogroup.com/

ON TOPIC

So you think this is enough to fill some IL96's on a regular basis??? Supposed they buy 4 of these aircraft, fly 2 rotations with each of them. With a seat capacity of 250-300 pax on each aircraft this makes to a total of ca. 2000 tourists inbound and outbound - EACH DAY!!! This would add to ca. 730.000 tourists a year. If we return to mind that N.Korea is very much sanctioned (almost whole the world!) we can realize that this is UTOPIC. So no IL96's for N.Korea...  weeping 
But let's try to sell them trains!!!  stirthepot 

P.S.: Just saw an AirKoryo timetable: 3 weekly flights to PEK, 1 weekly to VVO


User currently offlineMH017 From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 1682 posts, RR: 31
Reply 12, posted (4 years 11 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6864 times:



Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 1):
On which routes can they still be found after september?

Heard from Vietnamese spotters last week, SU is still operating them on the SVO-HAN route (but didn't verify myself as yet)...



don't throw away tomorrow !
User currently offlineGlobeEx From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 742 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (4 years 11 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6806 times:



Quoting SIBILLE (Reply 2):
Cubana will use them for a long time.

In my opinion even that remains to be seen. If the embargo will finally be lifted (many americans don't understand this embargo anymore) and Obama was also hinting that an embargo against cuba might be lifted or at least not be as hard in the future, I suspect Cubana to try to get new short and longhaul aircrafts as fast as possible. Cuba's toursim already is quite siginficant. Imagine all americans could suddenly start flying too Cuba.

GlobeEx



As you may presently yourself be fully made aware of, my grammar sucks.
User currently offlineSeemyseems From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 967 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6297 times:



Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 1):
Is Aeroflot also withdrawing their Il-96s from service? On which routes can they still be found after september?

I think SU is planning to retire them quite soon, along with the TU154's.



seemyseems
User currently offlinePylon101 From Russia, joined Feb 2008, 1398 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6041 times:

I believe that most parties involved in Russian aircraft manufacturing - including many aviation enthusiasts - finally agreed that it would be too much for Russia to waist resources on the whole range of a/c.
It was not so easy and took time - having in mind traditions - I am telling you.
But to concentrate on SSJ and MS (supposed to be ready for the first flight in 2015) projects seems to be the only alternative.
IL-96-300 is my favorite. I love this plane. As much as I love IL-86 which I flew more than 150 times.
But economics is hardly a place for sentiments.


User currently offlineRIX From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1787 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5231 times:



Quoting MH017 (Reply 12):
SU is still operating them on the SVO-HAN route

- yes, this and Cuba, plus a couple of domestic ones. Of what I understood, SU doesn't plan to get rid of them, but will sell soon all Tupolevs.

Quoting GlobeEx (Reply 13):
Quoting SIBILLE (Reply 2):
Cubana will use them for a long time.

In my opinion even that remains to be seen. If the embargo will finally be lifted...

- still, why get rid of what serves you well? Potential tourist flow from the US won't require more long range flying anyway.


User currently offlineAzingrew From Belgium, joined Jul 2009, 4 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5164 times:

"Why??? Nobody can enter North Korea nor leave the country... It's a little bit too early for tourism in N.Korea... And Kim Jong Il has fear of flying. He takes the train..."

Not quite so. I did go to Pyong Yong, and the airport was quite busy , ok it was a special event, but I do believe they have flights to/from certain Russian cities, probably Chinese too and maybe other surrounding countries.

There is a few very modern hotels in Pyong Yong: Saw one with a nice pool, Hilton type, One other, very spectacular, shaped like a pyramid, which had been build by a french architect etc.. So I believe they have to fill them out with foreigners, somehow.

Flew TU 154 going in, anf yes, IL-96 leaving. Both on Aeroflot. To this day the landing in Moscow with the 96 was the smoothest I have ever experienced; somebody explained to me that it was probably due to the central undercarriage: Plane has set of wheels on each side of the fuselage plus one in the middle in the same axle as the nose wheel( don't know if that makes any sense) Never verified that, because the only one I ever saw is the one I took, and I didn't pay attention.


User currently offlineGlobeEx From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 742 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4352 times:



Quoting RIX (Reply 16):
- still, why get rid of what serves you well?

Well, while it serves them, it certainly doesn't "serve them well". Its just the only thing they realy could get their hands on and they flew for political reasons. As any sensible airline, they will try to get aircrafts (which they can afford of course) which are as economical as possible, which the IL96 certainly isn't.

Quoting RIX (Reply 16):
Potential tourist flow from the US won't require more long range flying anyway.

You know, there is more than the US. Europe for example. Cuba is quite a popular tourist destination for people over here. However, you will hardly see any German, French or Spanish tourist who likes to set foot in an old Russian Aircraft (okay, some are newly built) to fly to Cuba.

GlobeEx



As you may presently yourself be fully made aware of, my grammar sucks.
User currently offlinePylon101 From Russia, joined Feb 2008, 1398 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4352 times:

IL-96 doesn't fly to HAV for years - they changed it to 767-300 long ago.

But I had a chance to enjoy SVO-HAV 14 hour flight in 1999. It was great.
The fight went on to Lima.
And my friend and me were in Havanna.
Havanna in the end of January....highly recommended.


User currently offlineGlobeEx From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 742 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4218 times:



Quoting Pylon101 (Reply 19):
IL-96 doesn't fly to HAV for years - they changed it to 767-300 long ago.

But Cubana does operate the IL-96 to Madrid (and Paris on occasions) it seems.



As you may presently yourself be fully made aware of, my grammar sucks.
User currently offlineRIX From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1787 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3968 times:



Quoting GlobeEx (Reply 18):
it certainly doesn't "serve them well"... they will try to get aircrafts (which they can afford of course)

- that's the point. It serves them well of what they can afford.

Quoting GlobeEx (Reply 18):
You know, there is more than the US.

- I know. I was replying on how US embargo lift would affect Cubana flights. You know, Europe has hardly anything to do with it...

Quoting GlobeEx (Reply 20):
Quoting Pylon101 (Reply 19):
IL-96 doesn't fly to HAV for years - they changed it to 767-300 long ago.

But Cubana does operate the IL-96 to Madrid

- he was replying to my statement that SU still flies Il96 to Havana.


User currently offlineAirman99o From Canada, joined Aug 1999, 975 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3966 times:

In Regards to the IL-96 having Centre Wheel on the mains, The A-340, MD-11, DC-10 all have this Feature. I doubt highly that the smooth landing had anything to do with this centre wheel. It all depends on the Person / Computer at the controls.


Safety is Everyones Responsibility.
User currently offlineGlobeEx From Germany, joined Aug 2007, 742 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3846 times:



Quoting RIX (Reply 21):
- that's the point. It serves them well of what they can afford.

The thing is, that as soon as the embargo goes down the hill, Cubana's business case is a very good one. Not only would the potential traffic to Cuba quatrouple, but also Cuba could very well act as a very good connection point between the US and Southamerica. Therefore, it would be alot easier to get the loans required in order to get new aircrafts. Therefore, I remain, that as soon as the embargo falls the days of Russian built aircrafts (at least of those types they have in their fleet right now) are counted.

Quoting RIX (Reply 21):
- he was replying to my statement that SU still flies Il96 to Havana.

Sorry, yes he was.

Quoting RIX (Reply 21):
- I know. I was replying on how US embargo lift would affect Cubana flights. You know, Europe has hardly anything to do with it...

Yes and no. However, again, as soon as the embargo drops, I'm convinced that we will a pretty quick (meaning perhaps 3 years) modernization of Cubanas fleet. Short and longhaul. I mean, you can't say that they already have 767 in their fleet. Neither do they own them nor do they really operate them. They operate for Cubana.



As you may presently yourself be fully made aware of, my grammar sucks.
User currently offlineRIX From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1787 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (4 years 11 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3676 times:



Quoting GlobeEx (Reply 23):
as soon as the [US] embargo goes down the hill, ... potential traffic to Cuba quatrouple

- but not long haul one (speaking about traffic from US), and we talk Il96.

Quoting GlobeEx (Reply 23):
Cuba could very well act as a very good connection point between the US and Southamerica

- use Havana as a hub between US and South America? Quite questionable at best, I'd say...

Quoting GlobeEx (Reply 23):
as soon as the embargo falls the days of Russian built aircrafts... are counted.

- to me, too many "if"-s, but I see your point and definitely won't be surprised if eventually it goes this way. Especially as the airframes will get older.


25 Pylon101 : The situation in Cuba is not simple. I have been there for 4 times within last ..er..12 years. Though the purposes of by visits were far from politics
26 GlobeEx : If you look at the infrastructure right now, I do totally agree. However, looking at the fact that MIA is AA's main gateway to SA the location of HAV
27 GlenP : There was one of theirs at CAI on the 19th of last month. I'm not certain if this was a scheduled service or due to President Castro being on a visit
28 NCB : If backlog is 0, producing them before they can sell them results in a high financial risk for the entire Ilyushin operation. Therefore the production
29 Post contains links Pylon101 : As I posted above in this thread Russia alone doesn't need domestic made wide-body. Even with traffic doubled most demand would be met by single-aisle
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