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New Airplane Delivery, How Does This Work?  
User currently offlineEcuadorianMD11 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11467 times:

All,

with this recent picture below in mind, I was wondering: how does this work?

Big version: Width: 1024 Height: 683 File size: 358kb
777 KLM Sky Team

Above posted is obviously the brand spanking 777 for KLM, but my question is not restricted to this particular case. It´s merely a graphic example to my question :

A manufacturer (for instance A or B) is to deliver a plane at a certain date, now how does a delivery like that work please?
In this case KLM would have to send a few (senior?) pilots down (and I imagine somebody from management as well), and then at a certain point in time KLM would have to accept the plane plus all responsibilities that comes with that.
I´m thinking insurance, liability, contract compliance ($$$) etc.

I bought a brand new car and I´ve been engaged in the sale of a vessel which were both pretty particular occurrences with regards to timing and liability etc.
In this example, does the KLM manager sign a waiver at a certain time, jump on with the pilots and take off? Just like that? And do they have some super-intendant standing by in the factory for a few weeks to supervise particular requirements for this particular airline?

When it comes to a brand new type of plane for an airline there´s obviously a lot of training involved but if the flight crew is confident with this particular type of plane theoretically they could assume command and hit the skies, right?

Do (in this case) KLM technicians check the plane (I´m sure Boeing is capable to!), and do airlines take an empty plane to the homeport or do they load spare parts at the same time while they´re there?
Excuse my ignorance but I wonder how this works: in this case does Boeing phone KLM and invite the pilots down, do they get a tour of the factory first followed by a comprehensive instruction for a day and after the christening bottle of champagne is there some kind of celebration, or am I romanticizing this way too much?

I´m sure a lot of you have been involved in deliveries like this, so please; any anecdotes or cold hard facts are welcome!!

Cheers,

Ecuadorian MD11.

31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineB777LRF From Luxembourg, joined Nov 2008, 1329 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11387 times:

It is a rather complicated affair, and you're more or less on the right track. To keep it as simple as possible, I'm just going to bullet-point it for you.

* Larger airlines will, depending on the size of the order, usually have a resident representative in the shape of a senior engineer based at the manufactueres. If the airline has orders for several different types from the same manufacturer, the airline may have several more representatives residing. If it's a small order, or small airline, the rep. will shuttle back and forth.

* The rep. will follow the aircraft, and every other aircraft build for his/her airline, closely throughout it's construction phase, checking the work has been done not only to standard specifications, but also that any options or alterations ordered by the airline has been performed correctly.

* If it's a new type to the airline, pilots will go into training up to 6-12 months prior to delivery. This is not just the type rating, but may also include flying the line with another airline to gain experience - no insurance company is going to underwrite an operation with a 20-hours-on-type PIC. The training may, or may not, be part of the aircraft order package.

* If the airline does own maintenance, and it's a new type, engineers may be in training up to 12-16 months prior to delivery, in order to gain all their required certifications and some experience.

* Around 14-21 days prior to deliver, pilots from the airline will arrive and undertake final testing of the aircraft, alongside the resident airline rep. (maybe with reinforcements from homebase) and the manufacturer. This is the acceptance test, and during off-time it is not unsual for the manufacturer to dish up some hospitality, which may well include a tour of thier facilities and the odd intake of an adult beverage or two.

* Cnce acceptance testing is complete and everybody's happy with the new toy, the airline will wire transfer the outstanding balance. A senior bod from the airline will be on hand to sign the papers, a new registration will be applied signalling the official hand-over, bottles of bubbly opened and models of the new bird handed out by the manufacturer to all and sundry. That's the point where all liabilities pass on to the airline.

* The aircraft, smelling very much the same as new car actually, is ferried to homebase by the airlines' own crew (sometimes with manufacturer rep(s) onboard) with as many bums on seats as the regulations and airline will allow, or feel like accepting. Cabin crew are generally speaking not assigned to delivery flights, but if the load is high enough (the airline may have sent a whole barrage of senior bods over for the hand-over, or have offered ferry flights home as a prize to employees) it can happen. It's certainly not unusual for the senior airline bod, keeping the title of ownership under close guard, to jump on for the passage home. Sometime they'll also load cargo; Boeing's got a charity thing going whereby they blag cargo space on delivery flights from their customers, and offers same FOC to various charities.

PS
There's a youtube somewhere about Lufthansa taking delivery of their first A340-600. Look it up, it covers exactly what you're asking for.



From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
User currently offlineAsiaflyer From Singapore, joined May 2007, 1133 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11353 times:



Quoting B777LRF (Reply 1):
There's a youtube somewhere about Lufthansa taking delivery of their first A340-600. Look it up, it covers exactly what you're asking for.

Here is the link. Its a serie of total 10 videos. Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0NkJXmgsp0&feature=related

 Smile



SQ,MI,MH,CX,KA,CA,CZ,MU,KE,OZ,QF,NZ,FD,JQ,3K,5J,IT,AI,IC,QR,SK,LF,KL,AF,LH,LX,OS,SR,BA,SN,FR,WF,1I,5T,VZ,VX,AC,NW,UA,US,
User currently offlineEcuadorianMD11 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 11158 times:

Wow B777LRF,

that is what I call a thorough answer!!
Hats off..........

I wasn´t even that far off...........funny how shipping & aviation are pretty similar in certain things.
I like your "adult beverage" scheme.........I suppose it´s pretty special for a pilot and / or engineer to be invited on behalf of your employer.
One of the perks of being senior within an airline!

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 1):
smelling very much the same as new car actually

Nice touch!!

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 1):
Boeing's got a charity thing going whereby they blag cargo space

Good stuff.

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 2):
Here is the link. Its a serie of total 10 videos. Enjoy.

Yes, I will! Ta!

Ecuadorian MD11.


User currently offlineB777LRF From Luxembourg, joined Nov 2008, 1329 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 11099 times:

It is pretty special being invited; I've had the privilige of being hosted by both Airbus and Boeing for new aircraft hand-overs. Hospitality wise, not much between them - Toulouse does enjoy better weather than Seattle though. On the other hand, the souvenir shop at Paine Field is vastly superior to that of both Finkenwerder and Toulouse.

Being hosted doesn't mean they're picking up the tab for your flight over, or for your hotel during the stay - all expenses bar the hospitality are covered by your employeer. Boeing will even put you on a budget as far as lunch goes, whereas at the Airbus restaurant you can eat until you burst, ask for seconds, and nobody's going to bat an eyelid. At their executive restaurant in TLS you may even be offered wine with the food - highly civilised. There's no alcohol on Boeing grounds. TLS got a room for smokers; at Boeing you have to leave not only the building, but the Boeing owned land all together. They've even painted a line on the sidewalk to indicate the demarkation line, I kid you not.

Yeah, it's pretty cool to be senior enough to get these invitations. Once A+B get to know you, it's not unusual to receive tickets for the big international airshows (Paris, Farnborough, Dubai & Singapore). Mind you, it's just as usual for both of them to forget you ever existed the minute they've handed over the last bird - bit of a hard landing that is.

In short, being on the team that gets to buy brand new aeroplans is both a priviledge, a challenge, at times very frustrating but ultimately extremely satisfying once you get to ride the new toy home. Oh, forgot to say, there will of course also be a bit of a party at homebase when the first of a new set of aircraft touches down - involving another round of adult beverages.



From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
User currently offlineFCA767 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2006, 1751 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 11074 times:

Yes I agree...Thanks for your Answers B777LR...it's very interesting  Smile
Also Thanks Asiaflyer for the youtube link  Smile


User currently offlineQblue From Canada, joined Jun 2004, 157 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 11064 times:

Some delivery with Boeing I heard happens over international air. They fly out west over the pacific and papers are signed or fly to YVR or YXX so to avoid taxes. A number of year a go I saw 5 new 737 at YVR southside 1 GOL and a couple still with green primer.

User currently offlineLH526 From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 2360 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 11024 times:
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Quoting B777LRF (Reply 1):
* Cnce acceptance testing is complete and everybody's happy with the new toy, the airline will wire transfer the outstanding balance. A senior bod from the airline will be on hand to sign the papers, a new registration will be applied signalling the official hand-over, bottles of bubbly opened and models of the new bird handed out by the manufacturer to all and sundry. That's the point where all liabilities pass on to the airline.

In the 1990s the procedure was that the final signing was done in a second split with one ear on the line to Manhattan Chase of whatever bank to signal the arrival of the funds ... one airline guy was on the phone, the other ones had their pens ready for signing ... quite a funny thing to see ... all waiting for the final phonecall before hastily signng the forms.



Trittst im Morgenrot daher, seh ich dich im Strahlenmeer ...
User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5635 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 10995 times:



Quoting B777LRF (Reply 1):
is ferried to homebase by the airlines' own crew (sometimes with manufacturer rep(s) onboard) with as many bums on seats as the regulations and airline will allow, or feel like accepting.

Not always. QF often used to brings Boeing's (B707/B747) home on revenue flights, ferry it down to SFO or LAX, put it on a scheduled flight home. Think some of the B703 came home from YVR on revenue flights. Obviously not for the first of type, but when you are down into the twenties or more it gets pretty routine.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently onlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9312 posts, RR: 29
Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 10964 times:



Quoting B777LRF (Reply 1):
Sometime they'll also load cargo; Boeing's

the world's first B747F was for LH and the delivery flight was to Hamburg with a full load of delicious Washington State apples, which LH gave by the case to freight forwarders and other customers all over Germany. Working in Hamburg , we had the freshest apples on the market back then.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineAirIndia From United Arab Emirates, joined Jan 2001, 1641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 10914 times:



Quoting B777LRF (Reply 1):
Cabin crew are generally speaking not assigned to delivery flights, but if the load is high enough (the airline may have sent a whole barrage of senior bods over for the hand-over

remember this:



AND



User currently offlineBlooBirdie From Lesotho, joined Sep 2003, 257 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 10853 times:

I gather this visit to LUX by SAX was part of a mid-delivery sales pitch:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Luc Willems



which seemed to bear fruit:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Vivion Mulcahy



How common would this be?


User currently offlineEcuadorianMD11 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 10661 times:



Quoting B777LRF (Reply 4):
Yeah, it's pretty cool to be senior enough to get these invitations. Once A+B get to know you, it's not unusual to receive tickets for the big international airshows (Paris, Farnborough, Dubai & Singapore). Mind you, it's just as usual for both of them to forget you ever existed the minute they've handed over the last bird - bit of a hard landing that is.

Nice one..........if they remember you!!

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 4):
Oh, forgot to say, there will of course also be a bit of a party at homebase when the first of a new set of aircraft touches down - involving another round of adult beverages.

Something to look forward to......

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 2):
Here is the link. Its a serie of total 10 videos. Enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0NkJXmgsp0&feature=related

Just watched that.........interesting.
The champagne out of plastic cups was dissapointing though.
But it covered most of my questions, definitely..........

I noticed the throttles of the 4 engines, they seem rather small.
It´s not so easy to control them individually in an accurate way, correct?

Cheers,

Ecuadorian MD11.


User currently offlineMcg From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 10633 times:



Quoting Qblue (Reply 6):
Some delivery with Boeing I heard happens over international air. They fly out west over the pacific and papers are signed or fly to YVR or YXX so to avoid taxes. A number of year a go I saw 5 new 737 at YVR southside 1 GOL and a couple still with green primer.

F9 always arranged that a new aircraft first revenue flight originated in a station other than DEN to avoid a local Denver sales tax.

I heard a rumor that many years ago Boeing had a small office in Billings Montana to serve as the location for many aircraft transactions as Montana has no sales tax.


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7468 posts, RR: 17
Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 10411 times:



Quoting Gemuser (Reply 8):
QF often used to brings Boeing's (B707/B747) home on revenue flights

When they leased a BA 744 they ferried it from CBG (where it had been undergoing pre-lease maintenance at Marshalls Aerospace) to FRA. It the operated a revenue flight, QF7626 (FRA-BKK-SYD), on 13 November 2000. When it was returned to BA QF again used it on a revenue flight, QF031 (SYD-SIN-LHR), on 30 March 2002.

Until I read Gemuser's reply these were the only two long hauil delivery flights that I had been aware of where an airline had put an aircraft in service where most others would have flown non-revenue ferry flights. And although I am sure there are actually many other examples, it cannot be coincidence that QF is involved in both.

By the way here is the aircraft in question, VH-NLH:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Frank Schaefer


Eventually QF painted its tail white after (I believe) ATC at LAX complained that when seeing it on short final they thought it was a BA flight.


User currently offline413X3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 10335 times:



Quoting B777LRF (Reply 4):
Yeah, it's pretty cool to be senior enough to get these invitations.

May I ask how a 21-25 yr old is a "senior" anything except maybe in a College?


User currently offlineBravo1six From Canada, joined Dec 2007, 397 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 10250 times:



Quoting LH526 (Reply 7):
In the 1990s the procedure was that the final signing was done in a second split with one ear on the line to Manhattan Chase of whatever bank to signal the arrival of the funds ... one airline guy was on the phone, the other ones had their pens ready for signing ... quite a funny thing to see ... all waiting for the final phonecall before hastily signng the forms.

Not sure why they would feel the need not to sign beforehand. Signatures can be held in escrow and not exchanged until the final wire transfer is confirmed. The only thing that you might not actually sign and timestamp would be the bill of sale.


User currently offlineNorthstarBoy From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1826 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 10189 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Qblue (Reply 6):
Some delivery with Boeing I heard happens over international air. They fly out west over the pacific and papers are signed or fly to YVR or YXX so to avoid taxes. A number of year a go I saw 5 new 737 at YVR southside 1 GOL and a couple still with green primer.

As a general rule, wouldn't doing something like this make Boeing complicit in tax fraud/evasion? If this were true, it seems like very disturbing behavior on Boeing's part. Maybe it's just me, but if a customer asked me to deliver something of value to somewhere out of the way or even out of the country just so they could avoid paying taxes on the item, i'd be very uncomfortable with that. Ultimately, IMO, the state/local/federal/foreign taxes should be built into the price of the aircraft, so that the buyer has no way around them.

On another note,

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 1):
* If it's a new type to the airline, pilots will go into training up to 6-12 months prior to delivery. This is not just the type rating, but may also include flying the line with another airline to gain experience - no insurance company is going to underwrite an operation with a 20-hours-on-type PIC. The training may, or may not, be part of the aircraft order package.

Why would any airline in it's right mind allow a competitor's pilots to fly their airplanes? It would seem like the logical reaction in a competitive environment would be that if Airline A orders the 757 to compete against Airline B, who already flies them, but Airline A doesn't have the resources to train their pilots on those new 757s, it's to my advantage as Airline B to prevent Airline A from being able to take delivery of those airplanes, which means they'll be less competitive in the marketplace, what am i missing here?

to be clear, i've never worked in the airline industry, in the two industries i've worked in, Pizza and Travel, both of wich are ruthlessly competitive, we would have gladly pissed on our competitors rather than cooperate with them.

[Edited 2009-08-12 20:49:45]


Why are people so against low yields?! If lower yields means more people can travel abroad, i'm all for it
User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5635 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (5 years 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 10112 times:



Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 17):
Why would any airline in it's right mind allow a competitor's pilots to fly their airplanes?

Who said they were competitors? Not ALL airlines compete with ALL other airlines. Most airlines have "friends". I'd be willing to bet that BA's Chief Pilot and Senior Check & Training Captain have both flown QF A380 and as BA deliveries draw closer a number of BA line pilots will do a turn or two LHR-OZ-LHR and if QF should actually order B777 QF pilots will be flying BA B777 fairly quickly there after. On the other hand don't expect VA to host their pilots!

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineMyt321 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2007, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9916 times:

I seem to remember reading on here some time ago that a brand new PIA 77w ferried to JFK, before revving JFK-MAN-Islamabad or Karachi.


"The A380 is coming to MAN"
User currently offlineBoeing727 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 954 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 9854 times:

Here is another Lufthansa acceptance flight on one of their B747s...(German)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7Dx2Q7rf-g&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cebgRTageM

Boeing727


User currently offlineBravo1six From Canada, joined Dec 2007, 397 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (5 years 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 9759 times:



Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 17):
As a general rule, wouldn't doing something like this make Boeing complicit in tax fraud/evasion? If this were true, it seems like very disturbing behavior on Boeing's part. Maybe it's just me, but if a customer asked me to deliver something of value to somewhere out of the way or even out of the country just so they could avoid paying taxes on the item, i'd be very uncomfortable with that. Ultimately, IMO, the state/local/federal/foreign taxes should be built into the price of the aircraft, so that the buyer has no way around them

There is nothing wrong with abiding by the law as it is written. If the tax law says "tax is payable on any goods where transfer of title takes place within state lines" and says nothing further, there is nothing unlawful about moving the aircraft elsewhere for transfer of title.

To give you an example, Canadian sales tax is not payable on an aircraft sold in Canada if the buyer is a non-resident, the aircraft won't be used in Canada and the aircraft is immediately exported from Canada (I'm simplifying, but you get the idea). In that scenario, whether title transfer takes place in Canada or 12 miles off the coast of Labrador doesn't matter, as no taxes are being avoided since none are payable in the first place.


User currently onlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9606 posts, RR: 52
Reply 22, posted (5 years 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 9725 times:



Quoting B777LRF (Reply 4):
TLS got a room for smokers; at Boeing you have to leave not only the building, but the Boeing owned land all together. They've even painted a line on the sidewalk to indicate the demarkation line, I kid you not.

That's the state of Washington for you. No smoking in any building or within any entrance. Most companies are going as far as banning smoking on company property.

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 17):

Why would any airline in it's right mind allow a competitor's pilots to fly their airplanes? It would seem like the logical reaction in a competitive environment would be that if Airline A orders the 757 to compete against Airline B, who already flies them, but Airline A doesn't have the resources to train their pilots on those new 757s, it's to my advantage as Airline B to prevent Airline A from being able to take delivery of those airplanes, which means they'll be less competitive in the marketplace, what am i missing here?

Marketing is fiercely competitive. On the operations side, it is usually a case of "if you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours".

Airlines rely on each other all the time. For example, WN and AS marketing definitely hate each other, but if a WN plane goes tech in SEA, AS maintenance will go out and help them. A WN plane won't have the same priority as an AS plane would to them. The same favor/service is paid when the opposite happens. Some airlines are ruthless, but usually the actual people working them will help each other out.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25154 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (5 years 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 9677 times:



Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 17):
Quoting Qblue (Reply 6):
Some delivery with Boeing I heard happens over international air. They fly out west over the pacific and papers are signed or fly to YVR or YXX so to avoid taxes. A number of year a go I saw 5 new 737 at YVR southside 1 GOL and a couple still with green primer.

As a general rule, wouldn't doing something like this make Boeing complicit in tax fraud/evasion? If this were true, it seems like very disturbing behavior on Boeing's part.

QF took delivery of some of their first 747-400s in Canada. I was told that this was a way to benefit from lower taxes. QF operated several 744 delivery flights nonstop from YVR to SYD as special extra sections carrying paying passengers. I was a passenger (non-rev) on the first of those flights in August 1990. A printed certificate signed by the captain and purser was distributed to all passengers confirming that they had flown on the very first nonstop flight from Canada to Australia.


User currently offlineFrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1584 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (5 years 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 9598 times:



Quoting Gemuser (Reply 18):


Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 17):
Why would any airline in it's right mind allow a competitor's pilots to fly their airplanes?

Who said they were competitors? Not ALL airlines compete with ALL other airlines. Most airlines have "friends".

Certainly when they are in the same alliance. KL pilots have done much of their A330 training on NW planes.



146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7
25 VV701 : This simply is not how the airline industry works. For example every day BA, VS and SA aircraft arrive at LHR early in the morning from South Africa.
26 Luv2cattlecall : I can only imagine the logistics involved! We bought our last car with the european delivery option, and picked it up in Germany.... despite the serv
27 EcuadorianMD11 : Germany has enough airports to do the airplane training (like the A340-600 in the You Tube video), but where does KLM do their trainings? Out of Holl
28 JRadier : It can even go further. The KSSU (KLM, Sas, Swissair and UTA) group was started to share maintenance burdens of the widebodies amongst the airlines (
29 EcuadorianMD11 : Is this because of a lack of training space in the Netherlands? Ecuadorian MD11
30 JRadier : more because KLM was the first operator of the A330 in the Netherlands, so they needed to go somewhere else to pick up line experience.
31 Pilot21 : There was a delivery video on Youtube following an SAA A340-600 handover. In it, the Pilot mentions the aircraft has to fly North from Toulouse to UK
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