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What Airline Is The Leader On JFK-LAX-JFK?  
User currently offlineJetBlue777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 1454 posts, RR: 1
Posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 15195 times:

Hi, I just wondered who carries the most passengers on JFK-LAX-JFK? I also want to know who has the most flights. Currently only AA, UA, DL and VX operates this route so who is the leader?


It's a cultural thing.
102 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePWMRamper From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 621 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 15165 times:

United has 6 flights I believe, the loads seem to be pretty good for them.

User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3618 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 15164 times:

It has to be AA. 8-9 flights/day, most if not all on the 762.


PHX based
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4898 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 15148 times:
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AA...by most measurement standards...

User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4748 posts, RR: 45
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 15052 times:

The JFK-LAX leader is American Airlines.


Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineDFWEagle From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1071 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 15012 times:



Quoting 777STL (Reply 2):
It has to be AA. 8-9 flights/day, most if not all on the 762.

AA is increasing JFK-LAX back up to 10x daily flights this November. All ten will be operated by 3-class 767’s.



Ryan / HKG
User currently offlineJetBlue777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 1454 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 15017 times:



Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 4):
The JFK-LAX leader is American Airlines

I wonder why most people opt for AA. AA doesn't have a good product especially on the 767s, they have better options such as VX or DL. It always puzzles me when people complain that AA is a bad airline, why dont they fly on another airline?! VX and DL offers comparable fares with AA and both DL and VX offers better service and product.



It's a cultural thing.
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4898 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 14986 times:
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Quoting JetBlue777 (Reply 6):
I wonder why most people opt for AA

AA has a lot of the corporate contracts in this market from both coasts - Hollywood, Wall Street, etc.


User currently offlineDLflynhayn From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 424 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 14987 times:

DL has 7 flights a day and one NW flt.Mostly on 757's a few 737-800,and one NW 320.Flts are always full usually have to connect thru CVG,ATL while non-reving....

User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4898 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 14954 times:
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Quoting DLflynhayn (Reply 8):
DL has 7 flights a day and one NW flt.Mostly on 757's a few 737-800,and one NW 320.Flts are always full usually have to connect thru CVG,ATL while non-reving....

Actually, the JFK-LAX nonstops have always been on DL metal only. This winter, all of them will be operated by the ex-AA/TW 752s that heretofore have been used for international flights.


User currently offlineNetjetsintl From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 593 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 14936 times:

What if we add CO out of EWR to mix. where would they rank on the god old NYC-L.A route?

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25148 posts, RR: 46
Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 14938 times:

AA by passengers

UA by revenue yield.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4898 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 14909 times:
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Quoting Netjetsintl (Reply 10):
What if we add CO out of EWR to mix. where would they rank on the god old NYC-L.A route?

Still AA - more flights, more equipment, etc. AA has been the established leader in the JFK-LAX market for a long, long time. There is good reason why AA001 is a JFK-LAX flight  Smile


User currently offlineDLflynhayn From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 424 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 14872 times:



Quoting Panamair (Reply 9):
Actually, the JFK-LAX nonstops have always been on DL metal only

I know that i load the planes everyday,dont know what your trying to say? is it about the NW flt?


User currently offlineN623JB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 14840 times:

Actually, thats not 100% accurate(the listed airlines that do JFK-LAX)..JetBlue does the route as well...and in the future, looking forward to new routes out of LAX(maybe)


Bring JetBlue To Mexico City! (TLC and/or MEX would be great)
User currently offlineRipcordd From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1160 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 14787 times:



Quoting JetBlue777 (Reply 6):
I wonder why most people opt for AA. AA doesn't have a good product especially on the 767s, they have better options such as VX or DL. It always puzzles me when people complain that AA is a bad airline, why dont they fly on another airline?! VX and DL offers comparable fares with AA and both DL and VX offers better service and product.

Dude only 1 other airline comes close to them on this and it's UA on PS....Which other airline offers 3 class service on the route? DL/VX are light years behind on them on this route.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25148 posts, RR: 46
Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 14746 times:

From last summer, but MOBflyer provided lots of detailed revenue and load info how the airlines stack up in the market.
United P.s - "Home Run In All Perspectives" (by LAXintl Jul 29 2008 in Civil Aviation)



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9343 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 14716 times:



Quoting JetBlue777 (Reply 6):
I wonder why most people opt for AA. AA doesn't have a good product especially on the 767s, they have better options such as VX or DL. It always puzzles me when people complain that AA is a bad airline, why dont they fly on another airline?! VX and DL offers comparable fares with AA and both DL and VX offers better service and product.

AA leads by far. the 762s are some of the nicest aircraft out there. 3 class almost lie-flat in F. DL's product is a joke but will get better when all the flights go to 75Es but AA and UA will still have them IMO.



yep.
User currently offlineJetBlue777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 1454 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 14716 times:



Quoting Ripcordd (Reply 15):
DL/VX are light years behind on them on this route.

I'm talking about their product. Marjority of people fly on coach and DL and VX has a good product and service on Y class while UA and AA has an outdated product. I admit that UA has an excellent premium product....



It's a cultural thing.
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32734 posts, RR: 72
Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 14651 times:



Quoting JetBlue777 (Reply 6):
I wonder why most people opt for AA.

Because every almost major movie studio and entertainment company in Los Angeles - Disney being the most notable exception - has a contract with AA and puts everybody on this route.



a.
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4898 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 14565 times:
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Quoting DLflynhayn (Reply 13):
dont know what your trying to say? is it about the NW flt?

Yes, you said there was a NW 320 on JFK-LAX?

Quoting DLflynhayn (Reply 8):
and one NW flt.Mostly on 757's a few 737-800,and one NW 320



User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8488 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 14539 times:

Also note, the First class demand is huge because the corporate jet set (and entertainers) frequent the route. This is a big deal because these people will happily pay a lot of money for privacy and good amenities on the route, as an alternative to a fractional jet flight. There is a deep market for a RT price of thousands of dollars each.

User currently offlineCV880 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1130 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 14527 times:



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 17):

AA leads by far. the 762s are some of the nicest aircraft out there. 3 class almost lie-flat in F. DL's product is a joke but will get better when all the flights go to 75Es but AA and UA will still have them IMO.

DL is going to 75E equip on SFO-JFK as well, so a better product in F(C) than before, and still good product in Y.


User currently offlineFlyby519 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 14393 times:

Quoting JetBlue777 (Reply 6):
I wonder why most people opt for AA. AA doesn't have a good product especially on the 767s, they have better options such as VX or DL. It always puzzles me when people complain that AA is a bad airline, why dont they fly on another airline?! VX and DL offers comparable fares with AA and both DL and VX offers better service and product.

I think most people fly AA because of corporate contracts, or because of frequency of service. Seems like the majority of their major city pairs are well served. Doing a quick search on expedia.com AA looks to be the cheapest carrier offering a direct flight. VX is $55 more, UA $70 more than AA. Most customers go with whatever is cheapest.

Also interesting to note the most populous cities in the USA from July 1 2006 estimates. AA serves the top 10 pretty heavily:

New York
Los Angeles
Chicago
Houston
Phoenix
Philadelphia
San Antonio
San Diego
Dallas
San Jose

[Edited 2009-08-12 14:51:21]


These postings or comments are not a company-sponsored source of communication.
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32734 posts, RR: 72
Reply 24, posted (5 years 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 14263 times:

Quoting Flyby519 (Reply 23):

Also interesting to note the most populous cities in the USA from July 1 2006 estimates. AA serves the top 10 pretty heavily:

Cities are moot. You need to look at metro. You really think San Diego is "larger" than Boston or Miami?

But on that note, AA does serve the top 10 metros pretty heavily.

Quoting Flyby519 (Reply 23):
Doing a quick search on expedia.com AA looks to be the cheapest carrier offering a direct flight. VX is $55 more, UA $70 more than AA. Most customers go with whatever is cheapest.

Except AA isn't the cheapest. In fact, AA commands quite a fare premium over the other airlines, except UA, and still is the largest airline. AA's average fare on the route is $382 each way. Delta is the low-fare airline on the route, at $254 each way.

People love to hate on AA - and I agree they have a poor hard product - but they have what is regarded as the best frequent flyer program in the industry, a great international hard product in C and F and a good soft-product, especially in their domestic premium cabins. And it does not hurt that they have a hub or major presence in America's five largest urban areas: NYC, LA, Chicago, Miami and Dallas.

[Edited 2009-08-12 15:01:14]


a.
25 Viscount724 : Frequency is a major factor. If plans change you rarely have to wait more than an hour or two until the next AA flight. AA has been the market leader
26 Contrails15 : Jetblue has one flt a day JFK-LAX , LAX-JFK and its doing very well pax wise and mail and cargo wise. I know we're looking for the leader but the rout
27 LAXintl : 2 X, not 1.
28 Steex : The NW flight is not non-stop between LAX and JFK, it is direct with a stop at MSP. I believe currently the direct flight is scheduled eastbound only
29 Contrails15 : We have 2? Yeah I said we, I work for B6 and don't know how many LAX we have. This is why I work the ramp.
30 Jfk777 : AA's 762 transcon fleet is a special sub-fleet that only flies from coast to coast. These are not your usual AA 767 or any airlines usual 767's.
31 AAAL : I few this route not too long ago. Apart from the small maintenance delay it was great. J was packed and F was full with a bunch of stars. Food was g
32 DLflynhayn : Well on my schedule it says we have one flt at 12:40am LAX-JFK.I don't work night shift so can't really confirm,but i thought a buddy of mine that wo
33 L1011buff : Will AA ever put a 777 on the route since it's such a high demand route with lots of F/C pax?
34 MAH4546 : No.
35 AeroWesty : Quick question about Coach on the 762. I was looking at the configuration the other day while planning a possible detour through LA on my way back fr
36 Phelpsie87 : Yes, there is a NW flights at 12:40am. NW320 arrives MSP at 6:11am and then departs again for JFK at 7am. But it stops in MSP....so don't forget that
37 MAH4546 : Yes, the coach pitch on AA's 762 fleet is above average generous. AA, even after MRTC, has above generous coach pitch on most of their fleet. When MR
38 Pellegrine : I do wonder what type of a/c will AA put on JFK-LAX after the 762s get too old. Order 739s (what a downgrade that'd be...)? 787s?
39 DLflynhayn : Got it thanks! maybe i'll try that flt one day!
40 Mir : AA does have a very good product on their 762s - neither DL nor VX can match the three-class cabin. Sure, the economy product may not be as good, but
41 Ripcordd : I thought years ago they flew a 777rt on it for a very short time.....I know they scheduled it but not sure if they flew it......After the 762's are g
42 Commavia : Yes. 777s have flown regularly scheduled on JFK-LAX, but only very briefly, and years ago. I want to say - though I can't remember for sure - that it
43 HPAEAA : Well, on the 762s AA has an excellent upgraded product - the biz and f cabin are much more comfortable than most domestic f class products - honestly
44 AeroWesty : Thanks for the confirmation. My last flight on AA a few years ago wasn't the best, being seated behind the exit rows on an MD-80, but I was willing t
45 Carfield : Well I flew all the above... In general, all these airlines really treat this JFK-LAX route as premium and try to offer the best on this flight. AA's
46 Cactus742 : Don't forget about QF service between JFK and LAX...
47 Jfk777 : Qantas can't sell tickets on the route, only passengers flying it to LAX to and from Australia and New Zealand.
48 Alitalia744 : All JFK-LAX-JFK non-stops are operated by DL metal and will continue to do so. 6 nonstops a day effective Sept and beyond are operated by 75E (with B
49 STT757 : While quite comfortable, isn't that a big reduction in premium capacity. Something like 50 fewer premium seats per day?
50 Triple7man : This made me think of when JFK-LAX started with jets nearly 50 years ago. AA 707 Astrojets, TWA 707 Starstreams and UA DC-8 Mainliners all flew this r
51 Danfearn77 : Wow, that is impressive.
52 Alitalia744 : It is (based on today's schedule) an approximate net-loss on average of 30 premium seats throughout the day.
53 September11 : Who is the first airline to fly JFK-LAX nonstop? Eastern Airlines?
54 Ssides : Once again, MAH hits the nail on the head. Some people knock on AA, and I can understand why, but when it comes to international partners, FF options
55 Panamair : By October, all 7 JFK-LAX flights should be operated by the 75E. JFK-SFO also starts switching to the 75E starting in October and will be fully 75E-o
56 LAXintl : No EA had nothing to do with the West Coast till later in its history. I show TWA commenced "nonstop" New York to Los Angeles scheduled service on Loc
57 STT757 : The DL trans-con 757s have 26 seats I thought, which would put the reduction at 60 seats if all six daily went to the 75E correct? Basically 10 fewer
58 Panamair : Depending on time of year, they have also been using 73Hs on JFK-LAX as well, and those have only had 16 First Class seats anyway, same as the 75Es.[
59 AA777223 : Does anyone have any photos of the interior of these birds? I am confused as to what the product is on these aircraft. I know the product on AAs 762 i
60 MAH4546 : The new 762 interiors have the same J seats and the old F seats from the 763s. The 762 refurb is, I believe, complete. There might be one plane not y
61 Tommy767 : I remember this too. AA did operate a 777 on JFK-LAX in 2003 for a brief time. IMHO, they should really bring it back. I think they could swing it. D
62 MAH4546 : With what aircraft? It's not as if they just have 772s lying around all day to send it on JFK-LAX-JFK. They happen to have 777s sitting at MIA all da
63 Timz : What shows that? Conventional wisdom is that westward nonstops started November 1953 on AA DC-7s; TW might have had an eastward-only try-for-nonstop
64 Post contains links and images Viscount724 : I'm quite sure that is not correct. TW's first nonstop coast-to-coast service was EASTBOUND ONLY from LAX to NYC in October 1953 with the standard L1
65 Tommy767 : Hasn't it been discussed on this forum that AA 777 utilization rates are extremely low? I'll bet AA has plenty of 777s just lying around JFK all day,
66 MAH4546 : Utilization rates are far from what they used to be. AA now evenly spreads them through more destinations. The days of reserving 777s for Heathrow ar
67 Mpdpilot : So after reading most of the replies. It is clear that American is the leader in this market. There are a lot of people on here that believe that Amer
68 Alitalia744 : Yes 26F on the 75X but nowadays, similar to CO, there is a mix of 738s on the route as well. For example today's op is 3 73H and 4 75X. So a net of l
69 Timz : As I recall they claimed westward nonstops in 1954-- and in the same 7 hr 55 min schedule as AA. They might have been required to claim that, due to
70 MAH4546 : You will easily be able to find surveys where all three airlines come out in mixed orders. They aren't worth much. As already mentioned, the LAX-JFK
71 Ripcordd : I think CO if they put a 3 class plane on the route they would have the best service, but I don't think there is enough demand from EWR to jusitfy a s
72 STT757 : In the Early-mid '90s CO had BusinessFirst DC-10s flying EWR-LAX/SFO, I wish I would have gotten on one of those. I've flown Trans-Con with CO from E
73 AA777223 : I know the refurbed F seats are the old coffin setup from the pacific configured 777s, but what about the new J seats. Are they the J recliners out o
74 MAH4546 : There are no new J seats. They simply reupholstered them. Putting in the new J seats would simply not create enough a hard product differential betwe
75 AA777223 : The 763s never head F seats, except for the the sheepskin seats, which were the ones in the non-reconfigures 762s. The new 762 F seats ARE the former
76 MAH4546 : Yes, the 763s had F seats until 2002. AA had them in storage, and installed them in the 762s. The seats are not new. Just reupholstered with new fabr
77 AA777223 : Everyone else I have ever heard describe the new transcon flagship F suites said they were the old 77P seats, which had been kept in storage.
78 Ssides : As MAH pointed out, this is no longer the case. AA used to operate London as an all-777 destination, which required 777s to remain on the ground at v
79 MAH4546 : Okay. But that doesn't change the fact that they are the old 763 F seats.
80 Jetlanta : Importantly, the AA JFK-LAX product is significantly different than its standard domestic mainline product, as is UA's. DL and CO currently use the s
81 LACA773 : I feel both DL & CO products are more on the lines of Business class vs what UA & AA offer in F (or P). I wonder if CO will respond to DL now that th
82 STT757 : With CO forming their new alliance with UA FF's of both airlines will have acess to each others products and services, so CO flyers can go check out
83 LACA773 : This will be interesting to see what happens. Two very different products and though UA's p.s. service is very special, CO wins hands down on all oth
84 Post contains links LAXintl : I have some documentation that shows the flight inaugral on March 1st, 1946 however from a public source found this in Time Magazine blurb regarding
85 SFOJFK : The 763 F seats were similar to the old 777 coffin style F seats. In the 762, it's the same seat, but they removed the exterior "coffin" shell.
86 Viscount724 : The nonstop flights you refer to prior to 1953 were one-off public relations flights, not scheduled services.
87 Timz : That's the only one that claims scheduled nonstops. TWA did schedule eastward-only we'll-try-for-nonstop flights in summer 1947, but I think not earl
88 LACA773 : How's B6 doing so far on their new JFK-LAX-JFK route? Will we be seeing a a couple of additional frequencies (at least) i.e., 7am, 9:30am etc?
89 Viscount724 : That sounds strange as their L1049G nonstops two years earlier (from the September 25, 1955 timetable) were scheduled at 8 hr. 39 min. Even the sligh
90 Timz : If so, they scheduled no westward nonstops in 3/57.
91 MAH4546 : Not just the 762s. AA flies seven daily flights with five different aircraft - the 738, 752, 763 and 772 year-round, and the 762 during parts of the
92 LACA773 : Hey Mark, Thanks for the information. I've noticed in the past they seem to fly their entire fleet on that route with the exception of the AB6 (which
93 MAH4546 : Let's hope not. The 763 and 772 offer a vastly superior product. I would hate to see 762s take over the route. Also, since its a key hub route, deman
94 Tommy767 : I've flown DL twice on this route and the catering is good, but not as good as AA or UA but they have certainly been ramping it up as of the past yea
95 MAH4546 : On AA, even EXPs frequently do not get upgrades on JFK-LAX/SFO. As a PLAT, I've rarely scored an upgrade on the route if it wasn't a Saturday. AA als
96 STT757 : I couldn't get an upgrade on CO for my Wife to Las Vegas this Labor Day Weekend from EWR, so I'm flying her through PHL-IAH-LAS-IAH-PHL and she has f
97 Timz : In the 12/57 timetable TWA claimed three westward IDL-LAX nonstops, two 1649s in 9-35 and one 1049G in 9-59. Two nonstops IDL-SFO, both 1649s in 9-59
98 Tommy767 : Thats interesting. I guess it makes sense since most of South Jersey would be closer to PHL anyway. BTW: I got rebooked yesterday on a DL 738 from LA
99 Post contains images JDAirCEO : As MAH said, these are not from the 777. The 777 seats reclined to a fully flat position and were wider than what is on the 762s. Thats not to say th
100 Jjeff : After years having UA as our preferred corporate carrier, my bank just switched its contract from United to American in April. I do LAX-JFK and revers
101 STT757 : I'm not sure what you consider to be South Jersey (every person has a different interpretation) but for folks in Mercer County (West Windsor, Princet
102 Caljn : A bit off topic but I don't think UA gets sufficient kudos. It is great to sit in the forward cabin with more space in Economy Plus, their planes are
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