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The Next V Australia Route Is .... Fiji!  
User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5176 posts, RR: 6
Posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 9608 times:

http://www.iasc.gov.au/applications/files/4458.pdf

Interesting - good use of the aircraft for this route! The SYD-NAN services are alwyas chockers!

44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDJ738 From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 410 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 9479 times:

With any luck this will free up PB aircraft and crew to take back some of the wetlease flying that VirginBlue are doing...

[Edited 2009-08-12 22:33:34]

User currently offlineSkyhigh From Australia, joined Nov 2005, 235 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9183 times:

It seems to me to e a waste of their onboard product. Does a 4 hour flight really justify a lie flat seat? Wont business class seats be hard to sell on a leisure route, especially when the premium economy class is more than comfortable for the length of the flight?

It's a shame that Virgin Australia isn't starting up their flights to South Africa like they once said, a route that QF currently has a monopoly on from from Sydney (excluding the code share with SA).


User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 3, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9157 times:



Quoting Skyhigh (Reply 2):
It seems to me to e a waste of their onboard product. Does a 4 hour flight really justify a lie flat seat? Wont business class seats be hard to sell on a leisure route, especially when the premium economy class is more than comfortable for the length of the flight?

It's a shame that Virgin Australia isn't starting up their flights to South Africa like they once said, a route that QF currently has a monopoly on from from Sydney (excluding the code share with SA).

I'll have to see the timings but it wouldnt surprise me if the VA flights do a quick nine hour run to Fiji and back in between the long LAX hops - it increases aircraft utilisation, which is essential for a profitable operation.

As for not needing lie flat beds for a four hour flight, well Fiji is a major leisure destination but traffic is heavy, so yields might not be disastrous. Like i said, its probably just to increase airframe utilisation so they probably dont care. Will be a good run to train your new F/As as well to hone them sharp before releasing them onto the LAX runs where service has to be excellent.

I think its a great idea. I'll certainly be using them next year for a trip to Fiji!  Smile



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8544 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9069 times:
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Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 3):
I'll have to see the timings but it wouldnt surprise me if the VA flights do a quick nine hour run to Fiji and back in between the long LAX hops - it increases aircraft utilisation, which is essential for a profitable operation.

agreed , it is probably a bit like the Trans Tasman runs done by NZ longhaul aircraft - boosts the utilisation and also helps with rating currency for crews (an important consideration these days as crew do not get to do as many takes offs/ landings as they used to do when average sector lengths were a lot shorter ) - I believe CX used to refer to it as 'intelligent misuse (or was it 'abuse'? ) of aircraft' as they have long done the same on HKG-MNL and HKG-TPE (and not just for the sake of capacity ) . If this is filling in otherwise idle time then it is a sensible use of an expensive resource.



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5176 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 8917 times:



Quoting Skyhigh (Reply 2):
It seems to me to e a waste of their onboard product

Not really... they will do SYD-NAN route in between the SYD-LAX flights. The aircraft would be sitting idle on the ground in Sydney. It can't go to JNB or anywhere further afield, so it makes sense to me. It also gets more people on board to experience thier product.

If Air Pacifc can fill 747's with a business class, I'm sure VA will be able to as well.


User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5298 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8779 times:

Interesting but I guess not to surprising given that as above the aircraft would sit on the ground all day. AKL was proposed a while back, not sure what DJ loads are like SYD-AKL. Anyway also notice that SYD-NAN on DJ would cease at the time VA starts.

Quoting ANstar (Reply 5):
If Air Pacifc can fill 747's with a business class, I'm sure VA will be able to as well.

Other than the daily FJ 744 the only other SYD-NAN flight is a daily DJ 738 is it not?! What are FJ's loads like to SYD at the moment? I remember reading a while back they were less than 50% in FEB or March I think it was.

They also applied for slots in HKG to run BNE-HKG.


User currently offlineAirbear From Australia, joined May 2001, 648 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8630 times:



Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 6):
AKL was proposed a while back, not sure what DJ loads are like SYD-AKL.

Hi all. Maybe time for a SYD/NAN/SYD service would be a bit tight in between LAX flts., if you included time for line maintenance, re-provisioning, cleaning etc etc., particularly if the a/c is late getting in from LAX.

But AKL could work. As it happens, I was asking myself the other day why DJ/VA do not use the Sydney aircraft to do a SYD/AKL return service, a) to showcase their product, b) to go up against EK's A380 and c) to give QF the sh**s - esp. now that QF run a lot of ancient 734s (yes, OK, soon to be 738s, but even so ...) across the Ditch.

As long as the LAX/SYD flt is not delayed too badly, there would be plenty of time to have the a/c back well on time to go out to LAX again in the evening. They might actually make some money out of the aircraft instead of having it sit over in the "day-care" area by the side of the M5, in company until early afternoon with the VS 346, and the SQ 380.


User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5298 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 8563 times:



Quoting Airbear (Reply 7):
Hi all. Maybe time for a SYD/NAN/SYD service would be a bit tight in between LAX flts., if you included time for line maintenance, re-provisioning, cleaning etc etc., particularly if the a/c is late getting in from LAX.

Hmm lets see aircraft arrives from LAX 0915 leaves for LAX 2130

SYD 1055
NAN 1545 1655
SYD 2020

To tight unless the LAX times change a little and even then turn arounds are very short, to short to maintain really for any period of time. Though aircraft would change in LAX with the MEL/BNE flights for maintanence on the day there is no MEL or BNE flight.

AKL fits much easier and could like in the NAN case replace the DJ flights or DJ could still offer a daily flight ex AKL early am returning late pm.

VA
SYD 1130 AKL 1630
AKL 1800 SYD 1920

DJ
AKL 0700 SYD 0830
SYD 0930 WLG 1430
WLG 1530 SYD 1700
SYD 1800 AKL 2300

Quoting Airbear (Reply 7):
But AKL could work. As it happens, I was asking myself the other day why DJ/VA do not use the Sydney aircraft to do a SYD/AKL return service, a) to showcase their product, b) to go up against EK's A380

Agreed!


User currently offlineVoltage From United States of America, joined May 2007, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 8402 times:

Any chance we'll eventually see a continuation SYD-NAN-LAX-NAN-SYD?

User currently offlineCAL764 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 376 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 7357 times:

Oooh..some competition for CO. Very nice.!


1. Fly to Win 2. Fund Future 3. Reliability 4. Work Together CO: Work Hard, Fly Right...
User currently offlineSmi0006 From Australia, joined Jan 2008, 1525 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 6757 times:



Quoting CAL764 (Reply 10):
Oooh..some competition for CO. Very nice.!

Umm how does this compete with CO? FJ I can see but CO?

I wonder if we could see an upgrade in some of the FJ hard products eventually to compete?

I remember hearing a rumour FJ was considering putting on some additional capacity in Melbourne a short while ago, but this was put on the back burner due to the political climate at the time, which reduced Fiji's popuarity as a tourist destination. Has this changed dramatically?


User currently offlineThegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4835 times:

This is a little bit of a surprise. SYD-PER is a slightly longer route, and much busier. Perhaps it's about brand recognition of V-Oz as an international airline.

Regarding South Africa, would they have trouble getting approval for ETOPS longer than ETOPS-180 as a new airline?


User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3323 posts, RR: 20
Reply 13, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4785 times:



Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 3):
I'll have to see the timings but it wouldnt surprise me if the VA flights do a quick nine hour run to Fiji and back in between the long LAX hops - it increases aircraft utilisation, which is essential for a profitable operation.



Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 8):
Hmm lets see aircraft arrives from LAX 0915 leaves for LAX 2130

SYD 1055
NAN 1545 1655
SYD 2020

To tight unless the LAX times change a little and even then turn arounds are very short, to short to maintain really for any period of time. Though aircraft would change in LAX with the MEL/BNE flights for maintanence on the day there is no MEL or BNE flight.

Is MEL-LAX going ahead in sept?

anyway, this rotation might be possible by not being SYD operated aircraft.

ie.
LAX-BNE - 0515
BNE-NAN 0715 - 1235
NAN-SYD 1400 - 1705
SYD-LAX 2000 -


User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5176 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4567 times:



Quoting Airbear (Reply 7):
Hi all. Maybe time for a SYD/NAN/SYD service would be a bit tight in between LAX flts., if you included time for line maintenance, re-provisioning, cleaning etc etc., particularly if the a/c is late getting in from LAX.

If they left LAX 1.5 hours earlier with an arrival into SYD around 6-6.30am and departure EX SYD of 8AM it could work. (DJ is 8.15am dep to NAN now).

Quoting Airbear (Reply 7):

But AKL could work.

No it couldn't. too much competition.

Quoting Voltage (Reply 9):
Any chance we'll eventually see a continuation SYD-NAN-LAX-NAN-SYD?

Nope - SYD-LAX non stop.... nothing via NAN will be commercially viable.

Quoting Thegeek (Reply 12):
Perhaps it's about brand recognition of V-Oz as an international airline.

Exactly... get bums on seats, expereince the VA difference and they may fly VA to LAX.

Quoting Thegeek (Reply 12):
Regarding South Africa, would they have trouble getting approval for ETOPS longer than ETOPS-180 as a new airline

I think the want ETOPS 330 or something for it to work and the 777-300ER is not certified by the FAA for that,

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 13):
Is MEL-LAX going ahead in sept?

Yes 3 x weekly.


User currently offlinePilotdude09 From Australia, joined May 2005, 1777 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4485 times:



Quoting Thegeek (Reply 12):
This is a little bit of a surprise. SYD-PER is a slightly longer route, and much busier. Perhaps it's about brand recognition of V-Oz as an international airline

It'd be great to have that sort of product of the transcons, and would force QF to upgrade their now shocking domestic product.

Also think the Y+ and J would sell well if V Australia could interlink with some airlines out of Perth and obviously offer their products all the way to the USA etc...........



Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5298 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4290 times:



Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 13):
LAX-BNE - 0515
BNE-NAN 0715 - 1235
NAN-SYD 1400 - 1705
SYD-LAX 2000 -

Hmm oneway between BNE and SYD-NAN. Then the SYD aircraft needs to position to BNE to operate the next BNE-LAX service which would still mean a schedule change would be required somewhere.

Quoting ANstar (Reply 14):
No it couldn't. too much competition.

It would time wise. And could replace the DJ service or be used so the Virgin Group have 2 daily SYD-AKL services.

I think they should perhaps give PER a go though obviusly with a tweak in the schedules.


User currently offlineAlangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4213 times:

Will they operate SYD NAN with meals and one drink included or will it be as per VirginBlue/Pacific Blue where you pay as you go for food and drink?

For the other flights where we have been discussing for ages whether V Australia will have enough planes to do daily SYDLAX, three times Weekly BNE and MEL to LAX, and still interested in doing flights to South Africa, I wondered if they could borrow the A346s which are to be parked by Virgin Atlantic. With A346s they would not have to worry about EROPS to South Africa. If they are interested in BNE to HKG three times weekly, which they have applied for, that would use an aircraft three times weekly.


User currently offlineTayser From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 1125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4160 times:

I still don't get the fascination with JNB.

There's only one daily 747 flight from Sydney, and another from Perth. 2 flights to a country (and continent) that's no where near the top of the list of destinations that Australians regularly travel to (well it's obvious as there's only two flights!) compared to North America where there's an enormous market in all categories of travellers.

QF still practically has a monopoly on MEL-LAX with the shitty UA product and stopover in SYD & QF's now 18 hour journey via AKL - tomorrow and Monday QF93 is full and no seats are for sale (as per Qantas website), Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday, have some availability (all at least $2000 for the MEL-LAX sector) - it's clear there's demand for direct flights on MEL-LAX.

There's 500,000 odd MEL originating pax who are flown via SYD to get elsewhere every year, what's the bet 1/4 of it is bound for LAX (and beyond on AA's network) and is the main reason QF has 2x daily, sometimes 3x daily SYD-LAX? VA should be targeting these people by going daily on MEL-LAX ASAP, especially as the economies at both ends are now starting to turn around.

$0.02

[Edited 2009-08-14 21:04:39]

User currently offlineThegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4148 times:



Quoting ANstar (Reply 14):
I think the want ETOPS 330 or something for it to work and the 777-300ER is not certified by the FAA for that,

Does it need to be? What possible interest could the FAA have in certifying for ETOPS-330, other than helping Boeing sell planes. What about ETOPS-240, is the 77W certified for that?

Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 17):
With A346s they would not have to worry about EROPS to South Africa.

This could work as a route: wet or damp leased planes from Virgin Atlantic flying either SYD-JNB or SYD-CPT. Or the plane could come from South Africa and fly to somewhere else in Oz. It doesn't solve the problem they have of what to do with their planes though.

Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 17):
If they are interested in BNE to HKG three times weekly,

Doubt they are now.


User currently offlineQF175 From Portugal, joined Mar 2007, 677 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4131 times:



Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 17):
, three times Weekly BNE to LAX

Four weekly from 21SEP!

Quoting ANstar (Thread starter):
http://www.iasc.gov.au/applications/files/4458.pdf

Interesting - good use of the aircraft for this route! The SYD-NAN services are alwyas chockers!

I agree and NAN yields have been on the increase according to recent IASC documents. Imagine the excess baggage charges! $$$$$

There's supposed to be another announcement regarding V Australia very shortly according to another board.

 Smile


User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5176 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4106 times:



Quoting Thegeek (Reply 19):
Does it need to be?

It does indeed if they want to do SYD-JNB non stop without doing a huge detour...


User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3204 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4096 times:



Quoting Tayser (Reply 18):
I still don't get the fascination with JNB.

It's about yeilds. QF and SAA have had sky high fares for these routes for years... and 1/3rd of the pax go via Singapore or Kuala Lumpur for this reason. The route is dominated by white south africans...or English Expats with family in both South Africa and Australia and of course mining/business interests. JNB has traditionally been on of the highest yeilding markets. The route could support more flights then its got (hence the connections on singapore for 1/3rd of the market) but that would trash yeilds.

In the long term however I'm not so sure. As more and more whites leave SA and move to Australia and the UK... I'm wondering how much longer the demand will be there for the same level of traffic?


User currently offlineThegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4022 times:



Quoting ANstar (Reply 21):
It does indeed if they want to do SYD-JNB non stop without doing a huge detour...

I mean do the FAA need to certify it for CASA to permit it. Wouldn't be THAT bad with ETOPS-240, probably about a 1 hour diversion.


User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3204 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4010 times:

The 77W is still the wrong aircraft for JNB. The reason being JNB is hot and high. If they want to make any money at all they'll be forced to leave freight behind on the longer routes... especially if they're forced (which it looks like they would be) to fly a much longer routing due to ETOPS concerns.

This is one of the few airports the A346 really wins out on.


25 Airbear : ... which is precisely why AKL could work, commercially as well as time-wise.
26 VikingA346 : Actually, a 240 minute ETOPS rule would still require a detour on the SYD-JNB route. A quad-jet is highly preferred on this route as it would require
27 ANstar : Why commercially? Even EK with their good product and A380 is only seeing 60 pax on some flights.... doesnt make sommercial sense at all to put the 7
28 6thfreedom : When VA commence JNB, the sector will most likely be MEL-PER-JNB...
29 Ben175 : They should really give QF a run for their money on SYD-PER. With the absolutely shocking product on the domestic aircraft, ESPECIALLY the 763's, it's
30 Alangirvan : For range the ideal planes for SYD-JNB would be 77L, A345 or A346HGW or the 747-400ER (would Qantas be happy to lend one to V Australia?). How importa
31 ZK-NBT : No EK don't get great loads AKL-SYD some days, BNE-AKL would have been a better route for the A380, BNE always had better loads generally than SYD ex
32 Smi0006 : I have always wondered why UA isn't non-stop on the route, is the demand really not there? Or do they need to have the Melbourne Joiners make the Syd
33 Sydscott : LOL Try having a look at the US carriers idea of a premium class if you want shocking. The 763's with the new interiors are fine and the service is n
34 Alangirvan : People have guessed why EK does Trans Tasman at all - just something for the planes to do, rather than sit at an Australian port all day. Is it for t
35 Smi0006 : Is that what QF will be hoping to acheive out of Melbourne? I believe they have removed their 767 (was it twice daily?) service to replace it with th
36 ZK-NBT : UA don't have the aircraft that can do the route with a viable load of PAX and Cargo. Yep and for freight the 77W carries alot more than an A380. EK
37 Mariner : Whenever I fly across the Tasman, I try to fly Emirates. I can't really define why, but it gives me something, maybe an intangible, that I don't get
38 ClassicLover : You do realise that they've probably done... gasp! market research here... plus it allows them to use the existing fleet efficiently as opposed to ha
39 Sydscott : C'mon we've got all sorts of tin pot little airlines flying in the Pacific for our enjoyment. It just seems such a waste to spend tens of millions of
40 ANstar : Hardly... did AN fly to Samoa, Tonga, Honiara, Port Moresby, Rarotonga, Auckland, Wellington, Queenstown, Christchurch, Hamilton and Los Angeles?
41 Post contains links 6thfreedom : Phuket from Melbourne and Brisbane, and Melbourne - JNB announced this morning. http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25937911-664,00.html
42 Alangirvan : Well spotted by 6thFreedom! Lots of interesting things from the link - so, only twice weekly for MEL-LAX and starting in Dec. This will give them a bi
43 QANTAS077 : have to be the dumbest move ever by VA, flying right past what is a heavy expat community right here in Perth.
44 6thfreedom : No, I don' think so. Brisbane-Phuket will be operated 2pw, so my guess is that the crew that operates MEL_HKT will overnight HKT, then operate the re
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