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YX Getting Some Of Frontiers A319  
User currently offlineYx302 From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 114 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 24561 times:

Check out the link, it states some a319 will be shifted to the midwest operation for west coast flights.

http://www.jsonline.com/business/53241102.html

288 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDLHFLYER From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 184 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 24482 times:

So will these only be used for west coast flights?


Duluth is a nice city, we even get 3 months without snow per year
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25007 posts, RR: 85
Reply 2, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 23913 times:
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This is probably the most predictable thing to come out of the Republic/Frontier/Midwest deal.

Midwest sorely needs an aircraft with a lower CASM even than the E190, so I'm standing by for a Republic order from Airbus at some time in the (not too distant) future.

Equally, Frontier has some A320's coming in. Some of them are swaps for the A318's, but not all of them.

I'd guess they will fly MKE-LAX in the first instance, but I wouldn't fall over in shock if they do some MKE-Florida runs in high season.

I wonder who'll fly 'em - Frontier crews or Midwest, or will some of the Republic pilots be moved to them?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 3, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 23836 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 2):
Midwest sorely needs an aircraft with a lower CASM even than the E190, so I'm standing by for a Republic order from Airbus at some time in the (not too distant) future.

Does the A319 really have a CASM lower than an E-190? The A319 has only an extra 46 seats in typical configuration and an empty weight some 12,000 kg heavier than the E-190.

For that matter, I would guess that the A319s would be reconfigured in some way to better fit with Midwest's business model.

That said, YX certainly could use the A319 if for no other reason than performance.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25007 posts, RR: 85
Reply 4, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 23804 times:
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Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
Does the A319 really have a CASM lower than an E-190? The A319 has only an extra 46 seats in typical configuration and an empty weight some 12,000 kg heavier than the E-190.

I believe so, at least in the Frontier configuration. And if you look at Frontier's overall CASM, with a fleet mostly of A319's, it is enviable.

I guess the other issue is potential revenue.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 5, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 23733 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 4):
I believe so, at least in the Frontier configuration. And if you look at Frontier's overall CASM, with a fleet mostly of A319's, it is enviable.

Makes sense in an all Y configuration, but I would think that YX would want something more in line with their more generous seating. UA's A319s have 120 seats vs. 136 for F9.

Just looking around at various A319 configurations and how Midwest is, RJ has a C14 Y96 configuration with 32" pitch in Y, which sounds about right for Midwest. RJ's E-190s have 100 seats. Of course that is just my purely unscientific analysis.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25007 posts, RR: 85
Reply 6, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 23708 times:
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Quoting BMI727 (Reply 5):
Makes sense in an all Y configuration, but I would think that YX would want something more in line with their more generous seating. UA's A319s have 120 seats vs. 136 for F9.

That may be.

I suppose it depends how the aircraft are allocated. If they are Frontier aircraft flying for Midwest then that may not work out.

If they are assigned to Midwest, with Midwest/Republic crews, then it becomes easily possible.

I suppose it is also possible that Frontier may introduce some form of premium seating - they have talked about it.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineMke717spotter From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2442 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 23673 times:

So is YX going to be getting these frames into their fleet (like repainted into the livery and stuff) or is F9 just going to add some flights on their own from MKE to help YX out?


Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25007 posts, RR: 85
Reply 8, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 23636 times:
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Quoting Mke717spotter (Reply 7):
So is YX going to be getting these frames into their fleet (like repainted into the livery and stuff) or is F9 just going to add some flights on their own from MKE to help YX out?

At the moment, you know as much as I do. I've suggested several possibilities, such as - if traffic warrants it - Midwest's MCI-DCA becoming a Frontier/Midwest DEN-MCI-DCA.

I don;t know if that will happen, it is only speculation.

There's been a whole bunch of stuff at Frontier "on hold" because of the uncertainty of the auction. Some of it, such as the contract with the 3 x (new) A320 early next year have come to light because of filings with the bk court, and the used A320's for the swaps.

Other stuff has been hinted at, such as this, but without any detail given.

It is all starting to come to light. For example, the first moves on the Frontier/Midwest code share were communicated to the Frontier staff on Thursday morning - twelve hours before the ownership decision was announced.

i guess someone was feeling confident.  Smile

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4997 posts, RR: 28
Reply 9, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 23589 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 2):
This is probably the most predictable thing to come out of the Republic/Frontier/Midwest deal.

Yup, and well said. I think the 2 just melt well together. Like chocolate and butter, yummy stuff! LOL! I must be hungry!

Quoting Mke717spotter (Reply 7):
So is YX going to be getting these frames into their fleet (like repainted into the livery and stuff) or is F9 just going to add some flights on their own from MKE to help YX out?

I would like to think that Republic would stray away from repainting, and more or less mingling the two products together. More like a YX flight operated by Frontier perhaps? It would be interesting to see some YX activity picking up in DEN perhaps. One can only speculate at this point, but Republic seems to have a goal.



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5008 posts, RR: 21
Reply 10, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 23569 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 8):


Other stuff has been hinted at, such as this, but without any detail given.

Would you care to speculate on the possibility of F9 going with the Signature/Saver configuration of YX? Or do you see the reverse happening?

Both configurations have their merits/drawbacks. Signature/Saver does have the plus of a clear cut product differentiation vs. WN, but I wonder if the sagging economy will spell the death knell of that scheme.



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlineN7371f From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1690 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 23512 times:
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Well given that Menke and the rest of Frontier management will be running Midwest, I think it's a little too early to say Midwest & Frontier will fly around with Signature Service. I think it's far more likely to believe the model we see at Frontier, ala AirFairs, will become Midwest.

Midwest will most certainly become more like Frontier, than the other way around. Remember - the Frontier model is working. Midwest's hasn't worked for the past few years.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25007 posts, RR: 85
Reply 12, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 23501 times:
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Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 10):
Would you care to speculate on the possibility of F9 going with the Signature/Saver configuration of YX? Or do you see the reverse happening?

I probably wouldn't speculate because I simply don't know.

Given Airtran and the imminent arrival of Southwest, the most overwhelming issue for Republic is to get Midwest's CASM down. At the same time, I don't think they should play too much with the brand.

An essential reason Frontier is profitable against Southwest is because of their CASM. Like Airtran, Frontier's is around 6 cents, ex-fuel, and Southwest is, from memory, about three fourths of a cent higher.

Frontier looks after its premium pax well, but Midwest has a more clearly defined and entrenched premium model. I do know that Frontier has "considered" a better premium seating.

So I don't know how they intertwine the two. Sorry - best I can do.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 13, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 23345 times:



Quoting N7371f (Reply 11):
Midwest's hasn't worked for the past few years.

But in the last few years, Midwest has gotten away from what made them what they are, although it really is a chicken and egg argument.

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 10):
I wonder if the sagging economy will spell the death knell of that scheme.

Perhaps, but the economy won't always be sagging.

Quoting Mke717spotter (Reply 7):
F9 just going to add some flights on their own from MKE to help YX out?

I think that this is the best option, at least for the short term. It has the fewest costs and questions as far as the labor goes, especially if it becomes somewhat reciprocal and there are YX flights added to premium heavy Denver markets.

Such an arrangement keeps both products clean, and reduces ambiguity for customers. I can imagine that many YX customers would be somewhat disappointed if they ended up on F9, and that F9 pax may balk at paying a premium for Midwest's service.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25007 posts, RR: 85
Reply 14, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 23252 times:
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Quoting BMI727 (Reply 13):
I can imagine that many YX customers would be somewhat disappointed if they ended up on F9, and that F9 pax may balk at paying a premium for Midwest's service.

Oh, I dunno. Some might think that the tv - which would probably be free in their case - would be a fair swap for the cookies.  Smile

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineATLFlyer323 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 614 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 23082 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 14):
Oh, I dunno. Some might think that the tv - which would probably be free in their case - would be a fair swap for the cookies

Hey who knows, maybe F9 is about to have cookie ovens installed on their airbus soon.. =P

Wishful thinking,
Brandon



Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25007 posts, RR: 85
Reply 16, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 23069 times:
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Quoting ATLFlyer323 (Reply 15):
Hey who knows, maybe F9 is about to have cookie ovens installed on their airbus soon..

They have the ovens already.  Smile

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineATLFlyer323 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 614 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 22990 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 16):
They have the ovens already.

Than bring on the cookies!

~Brandon



Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
User currently offlineAvConsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 22905 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
The A319 has only an extra 46 seats in typical configuration

That is a significant RASM increase that will offset the -190's on high density routes. This will be a win win for RP or whomever.


User currently offlineUAL757 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 806 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 22583 times:

I wanna ride an A319 SEA-MCI! I mean this was to be figured...

User currently offlineYXwatcherMKE From United States of America, joined May 2007, 971 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 22436 times:

Well this is going to be very interesting to watch just to see how this will all play out. But I believe that we are going to see the 319's ASAP and possibly a couple of 320's in YX paint within the next 12 months. I think that RAH will be looking for leases that can deliver 319's quickly and bring in new birds when possible. BB stated back when they announced the plan to purchase YX that they will bring on mainline A/C to replace the departing 717's as soon as possible and that in the meantime they would bring in the E-190's to fill-in to get some of the service that YX stopped last year when their grounded the MD-83's due to the fuel prices and Boeing started taking back the 717's. What Tim failed to do was get TPG to bring in someone like Republic sooner Like within months to get those routes going again ASAP thus making YX stronger than it is now.


I miss the 60's & 70's when you felt like a guest on the plane not cattle like today
User currently offlineMKE22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1129 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 22310 times:



Quoting Yx302 (Thread starter):
Check out the link, it states some a319 will be shifted to the midwest operation for west coast flights.

DO THE HAPPY DANCE!!!  Wow!  Wow!  Wow!  alert   alert   alert   highfive   highfive   highfive   relieved   relieved   relieved 

Ahh ok sorry.. but really, the news was to report the loss of 100 more employees locally.. Thats just not good news.. But A319s! Bit of bittersweet news..



If Your not pissed, your not trying
User currently offlineSmcmac32msn From United States of America, joined May 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 22272 times:



Quoting MKE22 (Reply 21):

Ahh ok sorry.. but really, the news was to report the loss of 100 more employees locally

This isn't huge news. They announced that they would be laying off the back-office people here that doubled up what they have at IND already when they made the purchase agreement. Its just actually here now. So far, they have done what they have said when they made the original agreement to purchase YX.



Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5354 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 22146 times:

I am required (by my username  Wink ) to wonder if perhaps YX might be considering a return to San Diego? They left Lindbergh Field a bit under a year ago after having flown to MCI 2x daily, year-'round, for over a year (and at least 1 daily flight since 2005.) They never quite got around to adding a n/s SAN-MKE but FL has for 2 years now (summers only, so far.)

If YX is going to be re-emerging, with purpose, as well as with some A-319s, I would hope they might perhaps add back those stations that they shut down last fall when the fuel prices were out of sight... (They also shut down FLL and RSW plus several Express cities, right?)

In fact, YX shared a gate with F9 last year at SAN and I believe there is still an empty chunk of ticket counter right next to Frontier now in T2E... Hmmmmm  stirthepot   scratchchin 

Come on back to San Diego, YX; we miss ya'!

bb


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25007 posts, RR: 85
Reply 24, posted (4 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 22109 times:
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Quoting SANFan (Reply 23):
I am required (by my username   ) to wonder if perhaps YX might be considering a return to San Diego?

I don't want to get your hopes up SANFan, but this might warm the cockles of your heart:

http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/mil...story1.html?b=1250481600%5E1938771

BJ: "Midwest Airlines Inc.’s new owner is vowing to restore many of the routes that were cut over the past two years, now that it has completed its acquisition of the Oak Creek airline.

Indianapolis-based Republic Airways Holdings plans to return Midwest’s network of cities served from its main hub at Milwaukee’s General Mitchell International Airport back to the level it was before Midwest implemented massive cuts as it battled record-high fuel costs and a faltering economy.

“This allows us to officially open the pages to a new chapter in the Midwest story, a positive chapter,” Republic spokesman Carlo Bertolini said."


I guess the question is - how did MKE-SAN do?

mariner



aeternum nauta
25 MKE22 : MKE-SAN never happened on YX.. It was always MCI-SAN. It may have been "direct" serivce going MKE-MCI-SAN, but they never served MKE-SAN n/s until FL
26 Mariner : Thanks for that. So - how did MCI-SAN do? mariner
27 AirframeAS : Hold the horse people.... Where does it say that Midwest is getting the A319's from F9? It does not say that. We do not operate a 138 seat A319. We h
28 SANFan : As I mentioned, Mariner, YX was running 2x daily SAN-MCI year-'round for the last year they were here; and as MKE22 said, often one or both of the fl
29 Mariner : I agree it is clumsily worded, but it says: "Bedford said some of the 138-seat Airbus A319 jets used by Republic will likely be shifted into service
30 PlanesNTrains : If Bedford references "...A319 jets used by Republic...", then I can only assume that they are Frontier birds. I don't know of any other Airbus plane
31 AirframeAS : Fair enough. But what will F9 do without one less A319 that they will need? F9 needs those birds. Why not just give Midwest the A318's instead?
32 Mariner : Patience, patience. Remember what Mr. Bedford also said - it will "likely" happen. It will only "likely" happen when it doesn't create any problems a
33 AirframeAS : I can confirm that. I'm trying, I'm trying!
34 Mariner : And 204 and 205 are coming as well and even though 205 was originally supposed to be a swap with an A318, that isn't definite yet. Everyone at both a
35 N917ME : Overall, I am impressed on how quickly that Republic is moving. They realize they need to move fast, as Mr. Bedford has stated before. We at YX receiv
36 OzarkD9S : Probably since the day they made the F9 offer, or even before. They definitely have a plan, they're just keeping it under wraps right now. I hope STL
37 Mke717spotter : That's not entirely true. I remember I flew the route nonstop on YX in the late '90s.
38 BMI727 : I doubt it. There seems to be plenty of capacity on the route at the moment, and selling MKE over ORD/MDW as a connection point isn't too easy. That
39 OzarkD9S : Well I'm certainly not holding my breath. As Republic tightens up the MKE/DEN hubs, those markets between the two stand to benefit from an F9/YX rela
40 Wedgetail737 : When YX received their first two MD-88's way back when, they started MKE-SFO and MKE-LAX. SAN came a little later on a MKE-LAX-SAN-MKE using MD-88's.
41 BMI727 : You do raise an interesting point, in that the combined carrier may have the weight to tap into many smaller markets. Of course, this is what F9 star
42 OzarkD9S : I would think more UA and DL/NW, since WN doesn't have the regional feed. But IF Republic orders more Q400's, they have to put them someplace.
43 Post contains links C767P : They may have never operated this, but it looks like according to this 1997 timetable they did do SAN-MKE. http://www.departedflights.com/YX010697p32
44 Clickhappy : As mentioned, they flew SAN-MKE nonstop, but MKE-SAN was with a stop in LAX. It is there in the timetable you linked if you want to check.
45 MKE22 : " target=_blank>http://www.departedflights.com/YX010....html Thank you for the clarification.
46 Loggat : STL-MKE will be started up again. BB has said this himself recently. Also, the F9 pilots have been told that they will be doing the airbus flying out
47 Mariner : It depends which Frontier offer you mean. This whole saga has a long history, going back over about fifteen months. BB and Frontier's SM have plotted
48 Post contains links Mariner : News of the intermingling of the fleets is starting to leak out. The A319's won't just be flying MKE-West Coast, but, as I suggested, maybe MKE-Florid
49 TSRA : I am still wondering how RP/YX/F9 will connect Hawaii to the mainland. Does the A319 have the legs to make HNL (or other cities in Hawaii) from LAX, S
50 9252fly : If it gives you an idea of potential,AC used to operate theirs YYZ-BOG and YYT-LHR in a 14J/106Y configuration. Both flights had a duration of about
51 Mariner : Theoretically it could do it. SFO-HNL is 2400 miles. Frontier flies DEN-ANC at 2405 miles and DEN-SJO at 2411 miles. But - I am told - certain factor
52 Wedgetail737 : I kind of wondered the same thing, but YX would have to put out some significant resources to modify the A319's for ETOPS and train crews for such se
53 AirframeAS : Who said anything about a merger??
54 Wedgetail737 : Nobody...it's my "what if" scenario.
55 TSRA : Getting ETOPs is not much fun but potentially could be beneficial. Could you imagine RP/YX/F9 getting a hand full of A330s to fly to Hawaii and other
56 AirframeAS : I agree! Just look at how much time and money HP invested to get their 752's ETOPS certified back then....
57 Knope2001 : He said this on a local MKE news interview program (WISN 12), but he said it in the context of (and this is a paraphrase) "we're commited to returnin
58 Knope2001 : Jumping in late to the whole Airbus for YX thread, several Midwest routes could use at least A319, if not A320. When Midwest flew M80's, configered wi
59 C767P : Thanks for the info, that is pretty interesting. When did YX start receiving their MD-80s (and how many 88s did they have?) I am also curious when Ka
60 Mariner : I did. There are sound financial reasons why Frontier and Midwest are not being merged in fact, as well as subjective reasons, such as brand loyalty.
61 Post contains links N911YX : 1989 was the year YX came to town operating from Terminal C at KCI. Following the terminal renovations at KCI, Midwest moved to Terminal A. I believe
62 Knope2001 : Yup...I pulled the June data from 1996 through 2009 so show the ups and downs. Prior to 1996 they only served Milwaukee 2-3 times per day (except for
63 Knope2001 : The top winter destinations from MIlwaukee are central and western Florida, Phoenix and Vegas. This is local traffic only, total passengers per day (
64 Mariner : Thanks, Knope. But I was hoping you might have some information on unserved markets (although I don't know how you could) in the Caribbean or Mexico,
65 N917ME : MKE/MBJ would work well. It could actually take some traffic form Northern Illinois.
66 SANFan : Thanks for the recap of the rather complex "ancient" history of the YX service at Lindbergh Field. Do you have any hints or insight as to the future
67 Mke717spotter : I'd say that MKE-MBJ would probably be likely since its been flown for the past few winters. On that note, does anyone know what's going on with the
68 Mariner : Sun Country has applied for MKE-CUN. mariner
69 AirframeAS : I am shocked at you, Mariner!
70 Knope2001 : I would guess there is a rather good chance SAN will return, although it's not clear if that would be from MCI, MKE or both. Although it's certainly
71 BMI727 : That is the biggest barrier I see to MKE-STL service. That market is at capacity, if not somewhat over. If FL pulls out, (it has been suggested here
72 SANFan : Thanx for your thoughts on the subject Knope'. I hope you're right and we'll see how things go in the next several months. (I wonder if, when YX left
73 YXwatcherMKE : I hope that we see the return to "local" markets soon! I think it is a shame that we cant't get to some of our larger Wisconsin cities by our "Hometow
74 Mke717spotter : Anyone have any idea when we can expect F9 to move to D at MKE?
75 MKENut : Kevin Healy probably already beat you to that question.
76 Mariner : In the Caribbean thread, it was posted that USA3000 had a 90% load factor MKE-MBJ last January. I wonder why they not bringing the route back - did y
77 YXwatcherMKE : I'm not sure who YX chartered for but I know a friend flew to MBJ on YX 3 years ago when she worked for a travel agency that did a lot of work with Fu
78 N911YX : Besides the sports teams (MKE Brewers, KC Royals, BNA Predators) we also did charters for such as Aerosmith/REO Speedwagon, a large Pharmaceutical co
79 YXwatcherMKE : Wow did I write a bad post, but i was nearly 0200 hours when I typed it. But what I was trying to say was the flight to MBJ was on a Mad Dog. And I as
80 Enilria : Definitely. The general rule of thumb is that with aircraft of the same era, the more seats the lower the CASM. That is definitely the case here. Tha
81 Mariner : SM saw a deal of value in that plan, the flights actually started under him, but you know exactly what happened - you've just explained it in your co
82 AirFrnt : Just as a side note, I noticed that the YX plane was parked at a F9 gate today in A at Denver.
83 Mastyc : Regarding the service to Mexico and Caribbean from MKE, Ryan International used to base at least two aircraft in MKE each winter to run charters for f
84 Mke717spotter : Your right, and when they were last here in MKE they would sometimes have up to three 737s and five flights a day down to the south. It definitely so
85 KingCavalier : They've been on the A concourse for a while now. They moved along with AS and FL. I beieve RW ran E170's from SJC and SMF down to San Jose Del Cabo a
86 Mariner : Agreed. The one that intrigued me was ABQ-PVR. I don't know how well it did, but someone is going to find a way to make ABQ-Mexico work, one day. The
87 MSYtristar : AM still offers ABQ-CUU service...but it's only thrice weekly with an ERJ...but in terms of beach markets, I think ABQ can certainly support somethin
88 Sideflare75 : I don't remember YX ever going to MBJ. I thought the only place we flew charters to for Funjet was PVR. Are you sure it was a YX aircraft?
89 N911YX : Does that mean that YX now has the third? MCI had a good count to CUN and PVR when F9 was doing the biz from here. We ARE framily....me, me, me my fa
90 Mariner : No. The authority is held by the airline that flies the route. So Republic held the authority for DEN-CUN, even though they were flying it for Fronti
91 AirFrnt : Yes, but they were at a F9 gate. I know the difference
92 YXwatcherMKE : Well All I can say is that she told me then and I just called her to confirm that she was on a YX charter for Funjet to MBJ. I can remember her doing
93 YXwatcherMKE : I had a conversation with a YX F/A earlier today, and she said that she and other YX employees are "very excited about the purchase of YX by Republic
94 AirFrnt : This is where I think they may be disappointed. Every single business class today is teaching the wisdom of brand rationalization.
95 Enilria : Actually I don't. CASM is most important where there is competition. Things like ABQ-PVR are monopolies and thus CASM is not nearly the deal it is on
96 Mariner : I'm not sure what point you are trying to make, unless it is, as so often, just to take issue with me. The costs of the E170 had become untenable. So
97 KingCavalier : I say give it a try. They are different operating certificates and if it was operated by different subsidiaries, I would think it's doable. If the DO
98 Mariner : Delta was able to achieve an equivalent version of it on some routes SLC-Mexico back in the days when there were only two authorities available. The
99 Pilotfox : Not to sure if it was discussed before but it looks like there are now 2 E190s doing flying out of MKE. The 2nd E190 have come online in the past few
100 F9Mechanic : I just heard something from a good friend who works line maintenance at F9, I was told that the manager of C-Check and some others were in MKE evaluat
101 BMI727 : This is what I figured would happen, seeing as the brand and product is probably the best thing that Midwest has going for them. Any word on the inte
102 MKE22 : So what you are saying is that 19 A319s are going to be flying for YX?
103 Mariner : I'd wait and see, MKE22. That is rather different from what SM said last week. mariner
104 Yx302 : I mentioned this earlier and was told i was crazy. Frontier has been looking at YX hangars for awhile now to do heavy mtc. I beleive they lease a han
105 MKE22 : Yeah of course, that just sounds like a few too many. YX already has 12 E170s, 2 E190s, and only 9 712s that need replacing. They have 14 E-Jets, so
106 AirframeAS : I heard the exact same thing, for a quite awhile now. But there is a lot more to that, which is above my pay grade at the moment, and that is not wor
107 Post contains images Mariner : I think it is more than likely that some maintenance will move to MKE - that's been on the cards for a while. But as to aircraft, just as one example
108 AirframeAS : The problem with the A318's is that the aircraft does not make money vs. A319's. That is one of the many reasons why the 18's are on their way out. Bu
109 Mariner : Well, sort of. Given Frontier's present profit run, it may be more true to say that it isn't doesn't make as much money as the A319. I doubt that the
110 Knope2001 : Actually, Midwest needs few if any A319's to replace the nine 717's. The 717's are being replaced by E190's. By October 1 they'll be at 5 E190 and 5 7
111 Mariner : Problem solved. Any idea where the E190's are coming from - new or used? mariner
112 Mke717spotter : Didn't the CEO say that he wants to restore YX to where it was before all the cuts came? In that case 19 might not really be that many because recall
113 KingCavalier : I agree, but I don't think Bryan Bedford planned on restoring everything by December. Sean Menke has stated it could take up to 6 months to put the r
114 MKENut : I remember in the past when I was quite young that Northwest would right size the aircraft based on advanced bookings.... So MKE - FLL or MIA would be
115 RW170 : Both. The first two were repossessed from SkyAirWorld by GECAS and then leased to RW. The next three will be new. Not sure about the ones after that.
116 Knope2001 : I'm not 100% sure. The first two E190's were definitely used, and the initial configuration (94 seats, with 10 in a traditional 2x1 first class cabin
117 Mariner : Thanks, both. There was a statement just a few weeks ago from US Airways - that they are contemplating removing their E190's from the fleet. Given Re
118 Enilria : I don't think they could. Two separate companies joined by a contractual relationship is one thing, but to use separate subsidiaries all owned by the
119 Cubsrule : I'm confused. 20 + 70 is 90, but you've said it'll be a 99 seat configuration. Are there 9 F seats too, or am I missing something else? US has 25 of
120 N7371f : The maintenance aspect of moving to MKE makes sense for a couple of reasons... Midwest has a ton of available space at is facility in MKE. The hangars
121 AirFrnt : Just for the record, I remain vastly unimpressed with the Embraer family. The E170s through E-190s are very problematic from a operations point of vi
122 Mariner : I have considerable respect for government, but, as noted, something similar to this has happened before, which is where the the third authority come
123 Cubsrule : The 320 can do anything domestic ex-DEN along with most of Canada and Mexico. If size is the only thing that determines profitability, why doesn't Re
124 Knope2001 : A typo on my part...the E190 plan is 20 + 79, all in a 2x2 configuration. Sorry! Midwest did have 25 717's. However, before the first ex-US E190 woul
125 AirframeAS : Are these planes hard to find on the 2nd hand market like the 757's are? I heard it was to be 4 bays. Honestly, I don't know how many bays it was sup
126 Post contains links Mariner : Not especially so, these days, or not as much as the 757. But as they are used, the problem is getting value for money - not every airline looks afte
127 Pilotfox : The Skway hangar is a no go, at least for the time being has Air Cargo Carriers has been leasing that out for a few months now. I'm not too sure how
128 N7371f : Anyone know how long that City of Denver tax has been around? I think back to the Stapleton days when the original Frontier did its heavy maintenance
129 Enilria : I heard from a VERY good source that the YX A319s will be flown with F9 crew, but will be "YX branded". That implies they will be in YX colors. Given
130 Knope2001 : That'a a very good assumption: (a) Bedford said in an interview yesterday that Airbus would be in MKE before the end of this year, "Frontier aircraft
131 Mariner : I don't think that's new. But I wouldn't necessarily make the leap to the aircraft being in Midwest livery. I don't ignore the difference. Why do you
132 Cubsrule : How many certificates does Republic need? 1) They need the AA 44-seat flying on a certificate separate from anything bigger than 50 seats (i.e. RP).
133 Blueman87 : how many different configs are there on the E190 i like jetBlues there nice
134 Mariner : Do you think STL will figure into this - despite the presence of Airtran? mariner
135 AirframeAS : From what I have been told, the tax-tax law that the City and County of Denver has...that has been around way, way before DIA ever came about. This s
136 Pilotfox : For what its worth, tonight F9 brought one of there RON 319 here in MKE down to the YX MX hanger to see how it fits.
137 BMI727 : I think that this market has some overcapacity at the moment. If one of the players drops out it could be a nice opportunity for YX, but right now it
138 Knope2001 : That's a very interesting one. If AirTran leaves MKE-STL it's a no-brainer. If AA* leaves, it's also probably a no-brainer. (There are rumors that AA
139 KingCavalier : F9 will have the lowest CASM on the route if Bedford chooses to operate MKE-STL. It looks like a perfect Lynx Q400 route to me.
140 BMI727 : I think that if they entered now, as the third player, YX would be able to survive, but not necessarily thrive. It would work well with a Q400 to sta
141 Mariner : There are a few routes, ex-MKE, for which I think the Q400 would be a good choice. I think the person having the most fun at the moment is Frontier's
142 Dfanucci : Without a doubt! GEG is still flying the 319 as the DEN feeder in the morning. We fly out in October showing a 318 as the bird. I'm wondering if in f
143 Post contains links and images Mariner : There's a commentator called William Swelbar, of MIT, who writes one of the best airline blogs out there (for my money). He wrote this after the Repu
144 Cubsrule : Interestingly, too, if any DH4s come to MKE, there will likely need to be a bridge city somewhere, and that could lead to new DEN service at, for ins
145 Mariner : Or Branson, MO? It's okay - I'm not being 100% serious. Just a little bit. mariner
146 Rjnut : Probably OMaha since they currently are served by Lynx Q400's and Midwest Connect service!l
147 Cubsrule : OMA is all mainline from DEN.
148 RW170 : They need the RW certificate specifically for the 86-seat 175s being operated for US. S5 can't have an 86-seat aircraft on its certificate because of
149 Cubsrule : Could those go on the Frontier certificate, or does US not permit regionals to operate large aircraft?
150 BMI727 : I took my dad on an E-Jet this summer and I don't think he'll want to fly anything else. Quite a few actually. I've always thought that it was a bit
151 KingCavalier : But it will go all Lynx or a mix next month I believe.
152 Cubsrule : I just checked October; it looks like 3 mainline and 2 L4 then. FWIW, OMA would probably be a better option for a bridge than DSM because it's closer
153 Mariner : Thanks, Knope, and I'm picking your brain - I'm not as familiar with the old Midwest routes as I should be. (i) I never quite understood SAT - did it
154 Yeogeo : I'm no Knope, but I can answer this from memory: from MKE YX served HOU (believe it or not), briefly, circa 2005. Apparently the route did not live u
155 Mariner : Thanks. I guess they never tried it through MCI? mariner
156 Yeogeo : No, only from MKE. SAT was always from MCI and actually lasted quite awhile. From Kansas City I also remember Austin, briefly (or am I imagining that
157 Mariner : I'm not that thrilled about IAD. If we assume "one" airline they (it?) will have a small swag of DCA slots and I think maybe that could be the concen
158 Yeogeo : ...BDL, CLT, CVG, SAN, COS, LGB (all former YX mainline routes)... Yeo
159 Mariner : I would not fall over in shock if BDL came back - both from DEN and MKE - or if they make the concentration on BOS - as in DEN-BOS-MKE-DEN. Sadly, Kn
160 Yeogeo : Oh, absolutely, IAD would not be near the top of anyone's list to restore. As a piece of YX trivia, however, IAD was a brief, curious bit of good luc
161 N7371f : When did Midwest serve LGB or even acquire slots? Sure you're not confused with SNA? Midwest did acquire slots at SNA and ran MCI-SNA. Didn't last lo
162 Yeogeo : No, neither would I. It was one of those routes that never quite had the right equipment. They flew 328's for quite some time but they were often cha
163 Post contains images Yeogeo : Boy, I dunno... I seem to remember LGB because it was the airport that B6 had just announced as their LA area base. There was a sudden tussle for (pr
164 Yeogeo : Ha! Then it must have been ultra-silly for them to fly (for years) MD-80's, DC-9's and 717's MKEMSN (70 miles) ! yeo
165 Enilria : I really would not expect that. I think FL and WN will only turn up the heat on YX/F9. I think given that FL just announced PIT and IND from MKE rece
166 Mariner : I don't know what that quote of me has to do with STL. mariner
167 Post contains links Knope2001 : Surprise, everybody....Bedford says that Midwest is currently making money in their present state. http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...chief-execut
168 Cubsrule : I expect that FL will still tweak the winter schedule some, and I wouldn't be shocked to see some of these cut in January or February. I also wouldn'
169 PGNCS : Seriously. 46 seats is almost 47% MORE seats than a 99 seat E-190. At any rate, the article said their A-319s seat 138 (notwithstanding the objection
170 Knope2001 : With all due respect to Mr. Shurz (whom I used to count as an acquaintence, although it has been years) Midwest's planning and pricing teams know the
171 Cubsrule : I do think that as Northern Virginia grows and as D.C. gets more congested, the business case for MKE-IAD gets better. I don't know that it's enough
172 Knope2001 : Yes...this coming winter, for the first time ever. Meaning there is no track record to see how well AirTran can draw in these sorts of markets outsid
173 Mariner : I very much doubt that would happen, nor would I want it to be so. I believe (?) there will be "intermingling" - to be announced quite soon. I don't
174 Expressjet_erj : Bedford mentioned STL in a TV interview in MKE I think the show was called "Perspectives" I could be wrong on the name. But he specifically mentioned
175 YXwatcherMKE : In the past two weeks there has been a big ad campain about how Midwest was in the proccess of rebuilding the airline to its former self. It says "tha
176 Knope2001 : He did say this, however I suspect he misspoke. In talking abour restoring service in MKE, he spoke of having recently restored Los Angeles and St Lo
177 Cubsrule : I agree with your whole list except this one. Why fight 2 LFCs? If FL pulls it, and I think they might, that would make it much more likely.
178 Yeogeo : re:BWI Would FL pull out Baltimore in the face of SW? I don't know, I guess I'd be surprised. Even without the withdrawl of FL, YX could reenter that
179 Cubsrule : They used to be very afraid of competing with WN at BWI. Apparently, they have no decided that they will compete in select markets (like IND), but I
180 Yeogeo : FL certainly has a history in MKE of pulling out of markets, or "seasonalizing" them after a time (but then, there's a lot of that going around In MK
181 Post contains links Mariner : At the risk of sounding trivial, there are the cookies which are surely brand differentiation. BB has said they will stay and there is this: http://ww
182 PlanesNTrains : There is NOTHING trivial about a cookie, Mariner! -Dave
183 Mariner : Yeh, I know. But everyone else is doing the Big Stuff and I keep looking for the Little Things - that's where I sometimes find the good clues. But pe
184 Yeogeo : Ah.. the cookies. I’ll come right out and say it (even though I’ve had my share of them), I’m anti-cookie. Tell me, does Frontier offer hot mea
185 KingCavalier : Frontier does have ovens on their Airbus. They removed the 3 ovens in the back, but they still have 2 ovens in the front. I'm not a fan of the cookies
186 Mariner : Wow. If they cost .11 cents each and they're selling 'em for $4 for a pack of three, that's some mark-up. mariner
187 YXwatcherMKE : OH but there is a difference between those Midwest Chocolate Chip Cookies and any other Chocolate Chip cookie I've ever had. Even My wife agrees with
188 Antoniemey : I know I'm a little late to the party here, but what about a compromise... Midwest name/colors but the animal left on the tail of any F9 A/C flying f
189 YXwatcherMKE : That might confuse YX passengers, but it would make a colorful A/C at the ramp. it would also decrease confusion for other pilots that would have to
190 Atomsareenough : Man, what kind of person are you? How could you be anti-cookie? I suppose you hate kittens and cupcakes and babies too :P That's a good point. Maybe
191 AirframeAS : Sorry, no. Two in the forward galley.
192 Yeogeo : As long as they're passed out at room temperature, I'd be O.K. with those. yeo
193 NWADC9 : Wi-Fi? DirecTV?
194 YXwatcherMKE : Yeah Wi-Fi or IFE or both even would be real nice, but when I tried to get an Idea of what she meant by that she said I can't really say anything more
195 Post contains links Mariner : Beyond the LiveTv, it may not be anything material. The people from both airlines, Midwest and Frontier, have been working under a considerable press
196 YXwatcherMKE : You make a very go point!
197 MKE22 : It should be an exciting time when they are made!
198 Mariner : I don't think it will be dull. There's some downside, too. Already I'm hearing some concern on the Midwest side that it's a "Frontier takeover" and o
199 MKE22 : What routes have they announced that are code-sharing? Does anyone have that list? It isn't up on the YX website last I checked..
200 AirframeAS : Same here. I am surprised that the F9/FL half-assed codeshare is still around. I was expecting it to be dropped by now. I think it will be dropped ev
201 KingCavalier : I do. YX flight numbers on Frontier codeshare flights - ABQ, BIL, BZN, COS, DEN, DRO, LGA, MKE and RAP F9 flight numbers on Midwest codeshare flights
202 FL787 : I really think FL should keep an eye on IND right now and I think in some ways IND-LGA will be a test flight for the market. Let's say that IND-LGA p
203 MKE22 : Maybe, maybe not.. They are profitable at a pretty substantial size so far, so whats not to like? As you said, they get a good place to connect peopl
204 FL787 : Yeah you're right that they are doing well for now and they have come a long way. MSP has actually performed pretty well loadwise. Definitely better
205 Enilria : OK. I'm not saying these markets will be full and I'm not saying they will all survive, but I really don't see FL reversing course in MKE either. I t
206 Smcmac32msn : I don't see FL leaving MKE until YX is dead or gone from MKE. They tried a hostile take over 2-3 years ago and when they didn't get what they wanted,
207 AirframeAS : Actually it is a codeshare, but as I have said repeatedly on other countless F9 threads: It is NOT a full-blown codeshare whatsoever. It is only, lik
208 FL787 : No its an alliance but not a codeshare. The definition of a codeshare is when one airline places their code on another airline's flights. FL and F9 a
209 NWADC9 : International arrivals go to the end of C, where Frontier is now. What's interesting, though, is they used to be at A at gate 16. Wasn't F9 thinking
210 AirframeAS : An alliance? No. Not even close. That is not always the case. Again, this is a Frequent Flyer codeshare.
211 Post contains links PlanesNTrains : A search revealed numerous articles and press releases discussing how AirTran and Frontier have a marketing alliance and frequent flier tie-in, but N
212 Mariner : Not to my knowledge. They ditched MCI-SJD in the reorganization after the Chapter 11 filing, but they kept both MCI-CUN and MCI-PVR. Given where they
213 AirframeAS : If there is no agreement between the two companies, then why are each frequent flyer customers from both airlines accruing miles one each other?
214 FL787 : He is saying there is no codeshare which is true. Again they have a frequent flyer agreement but they do not codeshare at all. If they had a codeshar
215 PlanesNTrains : I see you are puzzled. I'm sorry for that. The word "code" is referring to the two letter "code" for each airline. For Frontier, as you know, it's F9
216 AirframeAS : They don't need to do that in order to have a codeshare or partnership, if that is how you want to put it. Thank you, professor PlanesNTrains, for th
217 PlanesNTrains : Look, I'm not trying to be rude, but if you say that you understand codeshares, then how can you then turn around and claim that a Frequent Flyer Pro
218 AirframeAS : If you want to call it a partnership instead of a codeshare, then by all means go for it.
219 Post contains links PlanesNTrains : http://www.redorbit.com/news/busines...s_in_landmark_marketing/index.html "AirTran Airways and Frontier Airlines Join Forces in Landmark Marketing Pa
220 Pilotfox : Looks like the next E190s will be N164HQ (ex PT-TLP) per skyliners (In PIT now) and N163HQ (not too sure where this one is coming from)/
221 Enilria : They ran into technical problems hooking up Sabre to Open Skies and never implemented the code share. They clearly intended to do one, but I don't be
222 Cubsrule : Then again, they tried a huge asset purchase in MDW, did not get what they wanted, and never made a real effort to make it work. I'm still a bit skep
223 Yeogeo : re: FL vs YX: Ah yes... the World Wrestling Federation view of the airline business. Isn't it more likely that Airtran in it's bidding for Midwest saw
224 AirframeAS : True, but I don't know where you got the Open Skies thing... Ok, more of a partnership than a codeshare, I'll accept that. But still, FL has been act
225 PlanesNTrains : Well, while I didn't think we would get there: ...at least we finally did: Whew! -Dave
226 Enilria : Well, I think when you see Virgin America add a route at 9am and jetBlue add the same route at noon it isn't hard to have that view. Clearly that is
227 Cubsrule : I don't know. If WN thought they could succeed against YX, surely they could have entered MKE 5 years or 2 years or 6 months ago. For whatever reason
228 PlanesNTrains : Perhaps, but I think it might simply be that they had bigger fish to fry. -Dave
229 RJNUT : I am not sure it was worth all that trouble to win that argument!
230 Cubsrule : That's a fair reading of the situation - but the corrollary is that some of the fish were bigger because there was less competition. YX made MKE a "s
231 PlanesNTrains : Given the size of the MKE market, and YX's dominance of it, that's likely a fair reading of the situation as well. I do think that WN has had a strat
232 Post contains links Mariner : Southwest has been quite busy over the last four our or five years. They began service at PHL in early 2004, and did the ATA deal - then there was IA
233 Cubsrule : Did they? Or did they want to make life difficult for FL? Certainly, a combination of YX on some routes (LGA, BOS, DCA) and WN on others (BWI, LAS, P
234 Mariner : Of course. I don't think it is ever just "one thing." But "just to make life difficult for Airtran" is a heck of a poor way to run a business, especi
235 Cubsrule : In all honesty, it's about all I can figure out. WN had opportunities to enter cities with larger populations in areas of the country in which they a
236 Mariner : Oh dear, I could easily write a long, long thesis about that but because I can't actually interview Mr. Kelly - and he wouldn't necessarily tell me t
237 Knope2001 : In my opinion, WN is coming to MKE for two key reasons: (a) The scads of traffic left on the table when Midwest scaled back in high-volume markets was
238 Cubsrule : I think your analysis is absolutely right, and it's worth expanding on this a little bit. WN will certainly get some new passengers at MKE, but they'
239 Mariner : It doesn't make sense to me either, just as the idea they were going to kill Frontier didn't make sense to me. But when Southwest announced MKE, Midw
240 Cubsrule : That's what I don't understand, though. Five years ago, Midwest wasn't really a threat to what WN would have wanted with MKE either.
241 Mariner : Five years ago Mr Kelly had not long taken over as CEO and had very big shoes to fill. It is now clear that he intended to take Southwest in a differ
242 Cubsrule : That doesn't explain Dulles (which took about as many airplanes as MKE)...
243 Mariner : IAD is a "star" airport which, at the time, had minimal LCC presence. I would think Southwest saw it as fairly easy - and quite a splash. The circums
244 PlanesNTrains : Interesting to me that IAD hasn't really been a roaring success, at least in terms of growth. I wonder how MKE will be? Or BOS, LGA, MSP, etc? If you
245 Mariner : According to some analysts, DEN has not been a success, either. Bob McAdoo estimates that Southwest lost $36 million there in 1Q. Then again, Bob McA
246 PlanesNTrains : I gingerly sidestepped DEN. -Dave
247 Mariner : Wise man. mariner
248 Jlbmedia : I for one would eagerly await your thesis, and be happy to read it with or without an interview with Mr. Kelly.
249 MSNDC9 : The E-190's are currently at 10 Sig and 84 Saver = 94. If they dump the 3 across in Sig to go to a 4 across in Sig it will be 12 or 14 Sig and 84 Sav
250 Mke717spotter : Don't forget about the Madison area either, as I've been told MSN is godly expensive to fly from. Does anyone know if the upgrade fee for a signature
251 MSNDC9 : Looks like it variers. I think right now its as much as $70 each way but I've seen it as low as $35.
252 KingCavalier : And YX could offer Q400 or other regional service from MSN to MKE similiar to what Lynx does on COS to DEN. They are both about 80 miles. It's pretty
253 Sideflare75 : They are getting rid of the 1 X 2 seating on the 2 190's and the new ones are supposed to be 99 seats. At least that is the word we have gotten. Mayb
254 Knope2001 : Actually, the new 190's are 99 seats, 25 rows but no 25A. Here's a seat map sample: https://www.midwestairlines.com/servlet/viewSeatmap?sessionid=k23
255 N917me : Knope, you beat me to it! The 190's will have seat 25A perm blocked.
256 Post contains links Mariner : There's a very good, long piece in the Kansas City Star, seeing it all, obviously, from the perspective of MCI: http://www.kansascity.com/business/sto
257 N911YX : Yes, as I speculated a week or two back. But it'll be awhile before that happens and a tad expensive as well as the jetways at A will have to be relo
258 Yeogeo : Well "people" may, but CEO's of public companys don't, if they're worth their salt. Your reference here to the WWE is weak. The WWE is adolescents wa
259 MKENut : Quote by Vaughn Cordle: Yes Midwest did make money before 2001. This dude needs to do some research before making such statements.
260 MKENut : That quote made me chuckle a bit. Yes the lake can create a fog bank during a sunny day for no apparent reason from time to time. But we don't normal
261 Cubsrule : The fog banks aren't really a problem unless the airline lacks aircraft with appropriate autoland capabilities (cough . . . AL . . . cough).
262 Pilotfox : We may not get lake effect that much but when we do its usually pretty bad. I remember the snow storm last year were they were calling for less than a
263 Yeogeo : Yes, well the point is that Milwaukee is not "plagued" with exceptionally bad weather or delays so that Kansas City could make a claim to be better i
264 Smcmac32msn : We had more days where we avoided snow due to the lake this past winter than just the one lake effect storm (Dec 19th, 2008) we did have. I can't cou
265 Sunking737 : Snow should not matter very much if your ground staff has it together. When I was at SY we could turn the above wing operations in less than 15 min fr
266 PlanesNTrains : Why? If 100 seats requires a third F/A, then the loss of the potential revenue of that seat - only realized on a sold out flight - seems acceptable i
267 Cubsrule : 101 requires a third f/a (just as 51 requires a second). The issue is the Republic pilot contract, which does not have a pay scale for 100 seat airpl
268 PlanesNTrains : Doh! Walked right into that one, didn't I? Thanks for catching that. -Dave
269 Enilria : They saturated MDW-California when they thought ATA was weak from buying airplanes with too many seats. They entered PHL when they thought US just ne
270 Mariner : I think there is work to do at MCI. If you overlay the two route maps, you start to get a very interesting focus city - but with some big holes. So I
271 JBo : Yes, I can speak on good authority that MKE is 9 times out of 10 on the wrong side of the lake to get lake-effect.
272 Mariner : Many people believe that Eisner's policies were destructive to the Disney brand, which is why Roy Disney led the successful move to oust him, with th
273 Post contains images Dfanucci : Gosh Darnit, Mariner. Every time I go to post something you beat me to it. Eisner was absolute poison to the Disney brand. Especially towards the end
274 Mariner : Sorry. It's just that I very peripherally involved towards the end, dealing with some of Eisner's "creative team", who all had Harvard MBA's and were
275 Post contains links and images Dfanucci : Ha!   I also noticed in the news that WN is cutting 92 flights... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32643611/ns/travel-deals/ Whoops! Looks like there is
276 Ferrydxer : Anyone know where those last nine 712's are headed to? AirTran? Click Mexicana? I know a new potential startup in SEA that could use a couple to star
277 Cubsrule : They priced like an LCC, though. I know, as you do, that they didn't have LCC costs, but from YX's end, it should have been just like competing with
278 Smcmac32msn : All of YXs 712s are going to Click down in Mexico. They should be out of the fleet by the end of the year, just like OO's CR2's.
279 Sideflare75 : Saw the new 190 today at the YX hanger. It does have 100 seats with 25A blocked off. The interior colors leave alot to be desired though. Light tan le
280 Yeogeo : Greetings from the "wrong side" ! I believe their MCI-Florida “routes” consisted of RSW. I have a record of the route in 2003 (in Feb 1 daily non
281 Post contains links KingCavalier : This YX timetable from 2007 shows YX had nonstops from MCI to MCO, TPA and FLL. http://web.archive.org/web/200703082...56/www.metimetable.com/Midwest
282 Yeogeo : Sorry-obviously my "midwest folder" is hit or miss I meant MSN not MAD, pardon me. yeo
283 Mariner : The difference would be - this time - that could get feed from DEN at MCI to any destination in the east, and especially Florida. That same applies t
284 Enilria : So we agree that "CEO's of public companies" do act in vindictive, non-productive fashion using their company to settle their own rivalries. Certainl
285 Cubsrule : I wasn't paying much attention except for the last attempt, but my impression is that NW wasn't really trying to poach passengers from YX but rather
286 Mariner : When have I not agreed? I made a post about the differing levels of testosterone. In many cases, however, the head-kickers or Frat Boy tactics are of
287 Yeogeo : True, but why do you say "especially Florida"? (curious) Also true, but perhaps the natural routings for through service via MKE will to the NE, such
288 Post contains links LipeGIG : Become too Long, please continue discussion on Part 2 YX Getting Some Of Frontiers A319 - Part 2 (by LipeGIG Sep 1 2009 in Civil Aviation)
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