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Japan Air Lines Urged To Code-Share W/Delta  
User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined exactly 10 years ago today! , 4405 posts, RR: 19
Posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 12339 times:

Japan Air Urged to Expand Code-Share Pacts, Aviation Chief Says

By Chris Cooper and Kiyotaka Matsuda

Aug. 12 (Bloomberg) -- Japan Airlines Corp., Asia’s most indebted carrier, should expand code-sharing agreements with other airlines to boost passenger traffic without the cost of operating new routes, according to Japan’s civil aviation chief.

The carrier, which aims to cut 195 billion yen ($2 billion) in the year ending March, would benefit from code sharing with Delta Air Lines Inc., the world’s largest carrier. Delta’s Northwest Airlines Corp. is the biggest overseas carrier at Narita airport, Japan’s largest international airfield.

“By joining with Delta and Northwest they could expand their network,” Ryuhei Maeda, director-general of Japan’s Civil Aviation Bureau, said in an interview in Tokyo yesterday.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=aZ434MeXvasg#


---

Pursuring a codesharing arrangement with Delta is a very sound suggestion from Mr. Maeda. Given the lack of ATI in the Japanese market, any alliance issues can be worked through without much difficulty.

It is also worth noting that JAL was set up with know-how and equipment from Northwest Airlines after WW2.


Live life to the fullest.
99 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11752 posts, RR: 62
Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 12313 times:



Quoting Avek00 (Thread starter):
Pursuring a codesharing arrangement with Delta is a very sound suggestion from Mr. Maeda. Given the lack of ATI in the Japanese market, any alliance issues can be worked through without much difficulty.

While I of course may well be wrong, I highly doubt this is going to be happening anytime soon.

First, as for the nonstop Japan-U.S. market, I think JAL is quite fine with their schedule (along with partner AA) to LAX (2x daily), ORD (2x daily), DFW (2x daily), JFK (2x+ daily), and SFO (daily).

And as for codesharing specifically with Delta, the other reason I highly doubt that's going to happen is because the only tangible benefit they'd get is better access to Delta's U.S. hubs, and getting access to even more seats to Asian cities JAL already flies to. Why bother? Why codeshare on Delta's flights from NRT to ICN, SIN, HKG, etc., when they could just put those same passengers on their own flights? Sure, a codeshare would put some additional Delta passengers on some select JAL flights, but again, that begs the same question: for the most part, why would Delta bother with putting those people on JAL (assuming their high-yielding-enough) when they could just put those people on their own planes?


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15781 posts, RR: 27
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 12274 times:



Quoting Commavia (Reply 1):
Why bother? Why codeshare on Delta's flights from NRT to ICN, SIN, HKG, etc., when they could just put those same passengers on their own flights?

My guess is that it is about right sizing the total capacity for each market and protecting yields.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11752 posts, RR: 62
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 12253 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 2):
My guess is that it is about right sizing the total capacity for each market and protecting yields.

Right, but here's the problem, in most of these markets, it's pretty non-negotiable in terms of schedule presence. Delta (Northwest) only has one flight to these cities each day, and all are scheduled at basically the exact same time: early afternoon arrival into NRT, late afternoon-evening departure back. Turns out - guess what - JAL has schedules to all of these places at basically the exact same time, and then some. So, what, is JAL going to drop their evening departures ex-NRT to, say, Bangkok, Hong Kong, Singapore, Manila, Taipei? I don't think so. Is Delta? Maybe, but I don't really see that one happening either.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25768 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 12220 times:

JAL is in OneWorld. Chasing after Delta and developing tight relations certainly would force the carrier to change alliances.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined exactly 10 years ago today! , 4405 posts, RR: 19
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 12110 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
JAL is in OneWorld. Chasing after Delta and developing tight relations certainly would force the carrier to change alliances.

Not at all.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7931 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 12084 times:

Something must be done to reverse their losses. As a Delta fanboy I hope they would decide to codeshare with us, but I doubt it will do anything to help their losses. JAL is a very messed up company right now but has the potential to be a great profitable carrier.


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1775 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 12008 times:



Quoting Commavia (Reply 1):
Sure, a codeshare would put some additional Delta passengers on some select JAL flights, but again, that begs the same question: for the most part, why would Delta bother with putting those people on JAL (assuming their high-yielding-enough) when they could just put those people on their own planes?

For the most part, a code-share with JL would mean the slow dismantling-by-default of the DL intra-Asia flights. As mentioned JL flies everywhere from NRT DL does with more frequencies and better service, so a code-share would mean an attrition of DL flights from NRT to the continent. If I were a DL customer I'd be thrilled with this, but I only see this happening if and when DL decides NRT is not worth their while or they are in need for some steep cost cuts.


User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined exactly 10 years ago today! , 4405 posts, RR: 19
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 11902 times:



Quoting OP3000 (Reply 7):
For the most part, a code-share with JL would mean the slow dismantling-by-default of the DL intra-Asia flights.

Not necessarily. Look at how NH and UA have optimized their TPAC and intra-Asia flying over the past few years -- NH has tweaked its skeds to appeal primarily to the Japanese, whilst UA's skeds are more favorable for Americans, and they use the codeshares to bridge any gaps. Works quite well for them.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineAznMadSci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3681 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 11863 times:

I know this may be a bit tad off subject, but did NW maintain any domestic codeshares with JL when JAS merged with JL? Had these codeshares gone away with the DL/NW merger?

Also, how would KE react to such a deal between JL and DL?



The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1775 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 11833 times:



Quoting Avek00 (Reply 8):
Quoting OP3000 (Reply 7):
For the most part, a code-share with JL would mean the slow dismantling-by-default of the DL intra-Asia flights.

Not necessarily. Look at how NH and UA have optimized their TPAC and intra-Asia flying over the past few years -- NH has tweaked its skeds to appeal primarily to the Japanese, whilst UA's skeds are more favorable for Americans, and they use the codeshares to bridge any gaps. Works quite well for them.

I'm not saying it doesn't work well, just that it will mean a significant reduction of DL intra-Asian flights. Compare UA's intra-Asia flights now to what they had ten years ago (much fewer), and compare their network out of NRT to NW's which had no agreement with one of the Japanese majors (much smaller). Part of the reason is UA opted for more non-stops from the USA to the ending destinations in Asia, but the other is that the agreement with NH made their flights uncompetitive on high density routes like NRT-HKG where the two airlines competed head-to-head.

IMO DL will eventually pull back from NRT intra-Asian flights and move to direct services when they get 787's someday and as Chinese/Asian carriers keep growing their non-stop offerings. But clearly a code-share now with JL would benefit their LFs more than DL, hence why the Japanese aviation official is recommending that to JL.


User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 11758 times:



Quoting Avek00 (Thread starter):
boost passenger traffic without the cost of operating new routes

Which does not make sense! They have a comprehensive network domestically and internationally. The fact that their main international gateway is Narita with almost no domestic connections is the problem! I wonder who created this disconnect?!

With this handicap on the local players foreign carriers are able to tap directly into all of Japan in the same way Continental is sending B752s into tiny little airports in Europe because the local carriers are so concentrating on the main hubs.

Another issue is that they target so hard at Japanese travellers and are completely ignoring the fact that half of their catchment is located overseas! I have never seen any promotion of JAL services here in Hong Kong. I have seen ANA's tho which is doing better.



A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25768 posts, RR: 50
Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 11398 times:



Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 11):
I wonder who created this disconnect?!

Blame the Japanese government with the development of Narita and forced requirement that the carriers move their international operations over.
ANA is very much in a similar boat with a lack of wide or frequent domestic feed from NRT.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineFly2yyz From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 1046 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 11298 times:



Quoting AznMadSci (Reply 9):
Also, how would KE react to such a deal between JL and DL?

Its funny because KE and JL currently have a codeshare program set up set up since 2004. But with JL trying to get closer to DL, may irk KE for sure terminating a very very useful codesharing agreement currently set up these two partners.


User currently offlineHuaiwei From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 1116 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 11250 times:



Quoting Avek00 (Thread starter):
It is also worth noting that JAL was set up with know-how and equipment from Northwest Airlines after WW2.

Care to share why this should be worth noting? Airlines pursuing codeshare tie-ups simply due to nostalgia?



It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined exactly 10 years ago today! , 4405 posts, RR: 19
Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 11198 times:



Quoting Huaiwei (Reply 14):
Care to share why this should be worth noting?

Merely to point out that cooperation between NWA and JAL is nothing new, that's all.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 11106 times:

It is a tribute to NW and DL that a Japanese gov't official would suggest that JL would benefit from a DL relationship. It also says that the current relationship with AA is not generating the kinds of financial returns that a relationship with DL would return; a relationship with DL would clearly concentrate the market which is not necessarily a good thing.

User currently offlineOP3000 From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1775 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 11002 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 16):
It is a tribute to NW and DL that a Japanese gov't official would suggest that JL would benefit from a DL relationship.

It would be nice to get a JL enthusiast's view on this.


User currently offlineHuaiwei From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 1116 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 10975 times:



Quoting Avek00 (Reply 15):
Merely to point out that cooperation between NWA and JAL is nothing new, that's all.

I am not sure if that counted as a "cooperation", but assuming it is, so what? That current cooperation is more feasible just because there was one decades before?



It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6493 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 10947 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 16):
It also says that the current relationship with AA is not generating the kinds of financial returns that a relationship with DL would return; a relationship with DL would clearly concentrate the market which is not necessarily a good thing.

That is drawing a conclusion from one persons opinion, who is afilliated with neither DL or JL.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7931 posts, RR: 52
Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 10919 times:

Could this actually be an SOS that JL is in BIG trouble and should try and reduce competition with a big competitor, DL?

(I honestly don't know I'm not claiming to know anything)


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9556 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 10889 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 16):
It also says that the current relationship with AA is not generating the kinds of financial returns that a relationship with DL would return; a relationship with DL would clearly concentrate the market which is not necessarily a good thing.

No, No its not. This has nothing to do with AA. Its a good way to get JLs PAXs into markets like SEA(a biggy) PDX, SFO(1 more flight per day) DTW,ATL,MSP. Why do you try to get a fight started on almost EVERY thread? jeesh I forgot anytime someone wants a new codeshare it means some else isn't "generating a financial return".  Yeah sure



yep.
User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined exactly 10 years ago today! , 4405 posts, RR: 19
Reply 22, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 10848 times:



Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 16):
It is a tribute to NW and DL that a Japanese gov't official would suggest that JL would benefit from a DL relationship.

WorldTraveler,

Although we often don't see eye to eye on many issues involving international air transport, I think you and I would both agree that this commentary from the Japanese underscores the fact that US legacies are rising to the very top of the industry yet again, and will be the leaders for some time going forward as they have unmatched experience -- gained through plenty of hard knocks, including much of the past decade --- in building strong route networks and maintaining cost controls within the context of a highly competitive operating environment.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 20):
Could this actually be an SOS that JL is in BIG trouble and should try and reduce competition with a big competitor, DL?

For a variety of reasons, JAL is in the most precarious condition of the East Asian legacy carriers. Yes, it is in BIG trouble, and absent some forced restructuring of the Japanese air market, particularly on longhaul, JAL could well perish.

Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 11):
With this handicap on the local players foreign carriers are able to tap directly into all of Japan in the same way Continental is sending B752s into tiny little airports in Europe because the local carriers are so concentrating on the main hubs.

The Japanese longhaul air traffic market is interesting because it stands virtually alone among the industrialized nations in having experienced an almost complete defragmentation during the past 10-15 years. While most industrialized countries have been witnessing new cities being added as gateways for longhaul service, the Japanese market has almost completely re-centralized back to Tokyo, Tokyo, and nothing but Tokyo. Even Osaka and Naggoya find themselves with less longhaul (though perhaps more regional flying) than in years past.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineAirbuseric From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 4273 posts, RR: 51
Reply 23, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 10180 times:

JL's mismanagement at various fields in the company, and the old-fashioned way of thinking about customer treatment and IT matters towards the customers, hurt that company more then a lack of codeshare with e.g. DL.
JAL still attracts mostly Japanese citizens on their planes, a large minority is foreigner. Because, their sales is mostly towards the Japanese markets (also abroad). Sometimes it seems that they don't want to have the non-Japanese people on board their planes... Just a feeling and something I clearly notice at some routes. And there must be a reason for...



"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7690 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 10025 times:

Id be all for it if KE would codeshare with AA in return (I know it has nothing to do with it, but I can dream). Then I could earn aadvantage miles on the DFW-ICN flights.  cloudnine 

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 16):



It is a tribute to NW and DL that a Japanese gov't official would suggest that JL would benefit from a DL relationship. It also says that the current relationship with AA is not generating the kinds of financial returns that a relationship with DL would return; a relationship with DL would clearly concentrate the market which is not necessarily a good thing.

And DL could offer somthing AA doesnt in this case? I dont think so.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
25 DeltaHolland : Code-sharing with a compteter is a no no. I think JL is the only one here that would benefit. The long-term plan for them is to kick DL out and take t
26 Doug_or : Interesting I assumed the opposite. As you stated, there isn't much opportunity to feed DL domestic flights with JAL's current transpac schedule, so
27 DeltaMD90 : NRT-LAX NRT-DFW NRT-ORD NRT-JFK on AA vs NRT-ATL NRT-DTW NRT-GUM NRT-SGN NRT-HKG NRT-HNL NRT-LAX NRT-MSP NRT-JFK NRT-PDX NRT-SLC NRT-SFO NRT-SEA NRT-
28 DeltaL1011man : well as i said the only reason JL would codeshare with DL is for A) the routes like NRT-SEA that JL or AA don't fly and B) if/when DL cuts down the N
29 Anonms : Nice try, there, but I think it has more to do with DL/NW's route network out of NRT as opposed to AA's. The Japanese government seems to just want J
30 ExFATboy : Well, it might not force them to change alliances, but it would raise the question of why DL would undermine their own flights and those of their all
31 Avek00 : That could depend in part upon what the Japanese offer in exchange for Delta "developing a newfound interest for codesharing with JAL". If the Japane
32 Ha763 : JAL doesn't need to codeshare with DL to expand their network. All they have to do is expand their codeshare with AA. Right now, only AA's Japan fligh
33 DeltaMD90 : Maybe they can codeshare together and in return JL can give up a bunch of NRT slots to DL
34 LAXdude1023 : And JL already flies all of these except DTW, MSP, ATL, PDX, and SEA. SLC is a goner so no reason to bring it up.
35 DeltaMD90 : agreed, but I already said I meant if they codeshared they would time their flights or cut some so they would not be competing against each other as
36 Centrair : I think they are just going to revisit the agreement JL and NW had up until last year. I think it was hold over from JAS. When JAS and JL merged, NW l
37 Jetlanta : Amen. Wow. Delta's enormous presence in JAL's home market is an enormous competitive issue for JAL. Compete or cooperate? That's the question being p
38 CYasutomo : US legacies at the top of the industry? In terms of what? Certainly not service. US carriers are generally regarded as having the worst service in th
39 Commavia : No it's not. It's a tribute to the stupidity and inexperience of a government bureaucrat with the realities of the airline industry. Nothing more. No
40 DeltaMD90 : Haha yeah, I'm alluding to the US/DL slot exchange. It was a joke (hence the pot)
41 WorldTraveler : thank you. The US carriers not only have learned from their years of intense deregulation but Americans have yet to be as rattled by any disease as E
42 Cws818 : How, exactly, do you reach that conclusion? Unlike DL or UA, for example, AA only has ATI with AY (and SN for not much longer, probably).
43 MaverickM11 : DL's hub at NRT is a dead man walking without a local partner. A JL partnership would certainly change that and turn the hub from a perpetually loss m
44 DeltaMD90 : Then how has NW made it all these years? That was a joke sorry
45 MaverickM11 : NW was more than just TPAC. Plus where else would you put a bunch of 747s when you're hubs are all in the Midwest more or less?
46 Bobnwa : I believe NW has used 747's to NRT from LAX,SFO,SEA, HNL and JFK in the past and none of them are in the mid-west. What does it matter to you, what s
47 MaverickM11 : None of those US cities were hubs either. I think that's exactly what I and others have said
48 SQ_EK_freak : You can add BKK, SIN and MNL to that list too, all from NRT.
49 Mpdpilot : I think another way to look at this, and what the Government Official was trying to say. There really isn't a lot more places for JAL to expand to in
50 ExFATboy : Because government officials should be neutral, as policy should be, and since it can be difficult to distinguish between official positions and pers
51 Commavia : I'll give you Seattle, which actually is a decently-sized market to Japan, and Detroit, to an extent, which also has a somewhat large local market to
52 DeltaL1011man : Or DL could get a JV with KE(and make ICN into a CDG/AMS type deal) and do to NRT what UA......well that may not work UA does have NH. hmmm But if De
53 Jetlanta : Except the Japanese government just provided a huge bailout to JAL. It has a right to suggest the carrier examine alternative strategies.
54 Commavia : That's a big if - so big, in fact, that I just can't see it, for two reasons: 1) Part of all this "end-to-end networks" P.R. blather that Anderson &
55 ExFATboy : A good point, but again, neutrality is key...for the official to say "JAL should explore partnerships with other airlines" would be a neutral stateme
56 Avek00 : I agree 100% vis-a-vis domestic air transportation, and disagree 100% vis-a-vis international air transportation.
57 Bobnwa : You asked where else you would put 747's and I answered you with cities that NW did put the 747's.
58 MaverickM11 : Skyteam has one of the best hubs in Asia, and it ain't at NRT. Yeah, my point was if you don't send them to NRT, where do you send them? NW hubs didn
59 Cws818 : I doubt that this comment was intended as a tribute. That being said, if it were intended as a tribute, it seems clear to me that it would be a tribu
60 Aaron747 : The bailout money was actually provided by the Japan Development Bank, which is a public entity that functions in a non-governmental capacity. This i
61 Naritaflyer : That's because you may not be grasping fully how business is done in Japan. JAL has been told, according to this article, to code-share with Delta by
62 ExFATboy : Interesting, but I'd say that makes the statements by Mr. Maeda even worse since the bailout came from a nominally "non-governmental" entity. And why
63 DeltaL1011man : IMO NRT falls to number 3.......ICN(KE), CAN(CZ),NRT(DL),PEK(CZ). Mav. I don;t know whats going on but it seems like me and you are starting to agree
64 Viscount724 : Why is it that JL, based in a huge market like Japan with a population of over 127 million, can only justify passenger service to 4 cities in the mai
65 Ryanair!!! : Simple.... KE markets themselves far better as a 6th freedom carrier than JL does. And KE has over the years aimed to "internationalise" themselves t
66 WorldTraveler : You can simply look at AA's partners and see that they have more, close relationships in AA's largest markets than any other carrier. Even though DL
67 Naritaflyer : Like the US government has ever been shy for telling others not to meddle in its internal affairs. How you even make that suggestion blows me away. I
68 Jetlanta : Oh brother. CAN? Really? CAN is practically worthless as an international hub. It is even more worthless for Trans-Pacific travel, which is the point
69 MoltenRock : Keep in mind the Korean American population here in the US is larger than the Japanese American population, (1.5 million vs. 1.2 million) and their r
70 MaverickM11 : No, it's because DL assumes all the cost of the beyond NRT flying, and has little local revenue to support it. Connecting revenue from their Transpac
71 Jetlanta : Mav, not really fair there. H1N1 and the economy have hit ALL T-Pac carriers. You're implying that the market will always be this bad. When is does i
72 MaverickM11 : True, but no one knew what an H1N1 was before May 2009; DL had long written the epitaph for ATLPVG and ATLICN by then. H1N1 may have been the coup de
73 Jetlanta : I completely disagree regarding ATL-ICN. The merger and 2x daily NRT service was what spelled the end of that ICN. I defended that market many times
74 ExFATboy : I don't believe the US government has ever told its airlines to favor an agreement with one foreign carrier over another, at least not in the modern
75 MaverickM11 : I don't think any of these ever fundamentally worked, nor will they for quite some time. True, but DL essentially has the Pacific hub on the wrong si
76 DeltaMD90 : But on the other hand I don't think he cares about DL or AA (or UA, US, CO, etc for that matter). I think his major focus is on the survival of JL an
77 Aaway : Like other 'old-line' Asia based carriers with business models predicated on another era, JL suffers in the current economic climate. Adaptability is
78 Jetlanta : Which great carrier hub? SFO? Maybe. Next? ORD? I'd rather have a fortress hub at DTW than share ORD with multiple competitors & foreign flags. Next?
79 MaverickM11 : DTW just lost almost half of its Asian capacity, fortress hub or not. ORD is flat. And you think there are a lot of foreign flags at ORD.... You're g
80 WorldTraveler : The sole problem with NW's strategy to Asia has been that they don't have the right aircraft. The 744 is too big of an aircraft even for the big hub
81 MaverickM11 : You think a country that builds airports it doesn't need in order to keep people employed is going to let a Japanese carrier fail? DL has operated ev
82 Jetlanta : But Mav, no one carrier owns ORD. Exactly whose great Asian hub is it? UA's? AA's? What do the P&L's look like? DL has flexibility to adjust DTW capa
83 MaverickM11 : I think we can both agree you need a hub to sustain major Transpacific service. But the hub works because of a combination between local and connecti
84 Post contains links Aaron747 : There would be no such stink as all the Japanese automakers stood to lose a lot from any GM meltdown. The entire US supply chain depends on the exist
85 Jetlanta : Come on, should I list all of the ATL international markets that DO work with little O&D traffic? You think there is more ATL-DXB local traffic than
86 WorldTraveler : actually, industry statistics say that premium revenue across the Pacific has indeed been down as much as 2/3. It is a dramatic reduction in demand.
87 OP3000 : Power, prowess and virtue are not the words that come to mind when I think of DL's ATL as an international hub. It may be the largest int'l hub outsi
88 Jetlanta : So let me understand this. "Most people" do not consider it a "top-tier" hub to anywhere but Africa? Funny, I thought "most people" considered it the
89 WorldTraveler : And to add... DL has a true 5 continent hub at ATL. How many airlines have that at any airport?
90 MaverickM11 : That's the point of a hub, to leverage the connecting traffic with a broad schedule in order to get the local traffic, and preferably make money doin
91 OP3000 : Nice try, but what you're saying and what I said are two different things. Most airlines have not have that very high on their priority list. Perhaps
92 WorldTraveler : yet somehow DL has had some of the best financials for the last several years. CO has been up there as well and, like DL, they have a strategy of hav
93 FlyPNS1 : Your bias is so bad its almost hilarious. The reason the gov't official suggested DL is that DL is the ONLY carrier left. UA/US/CO are Star and there
94 MaverickM11 : We're all waiting for that, especially seeing as SQ and TG have had such a difficult time with ULH flying. Judging from DL's 77L performance so far,
95 Post contains links Aaway : Not directly related to thread topic, yet is indicative of travails facing JL: JAL, Nippon Yusen In Talks To Merge Cargo Units -----------------------
96 WorldTraveler : But obviously not doing enough to help JL generate enough revenue. Perhaps the Japanese gov't is saying that its time to bring in the big dogs now. J
97 MaverickM11 : That's one route out of how many? DXB was and can be flown with the ER. Right, so what are all these money making 77L routes going to be?
98 Jfk777 : With teh question of hubs Delta must also answer another question, how is it going to fly to the western Asian cities, HKG, SIN and Bangkok ? A prese
99 WorldTraveler : Kinda like all of AA's 777 routes in Europe and S. America could be flown by lighter aircraft too? The only current DL routes which must have a 77L t
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