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Jetblue JFK-BOS Vs. JFK-IAD  
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5439 times:

I noticed the other day that JFK-BOS has grown to have MANY more daily flights than JFK-IAD with jetBlue. Tomorrow, for example, jetBlue has 5 JFK-IAD flights but 11 JFK-BOS flights.

Are the BOS runs doing that much better than the IAD runs? My guess is because of BOS's central location compared to IAD....If only B6 had DCA slots!

47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16812 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5410 times:

DC is much closer driving wise than BOS, add on top of that Amtrak and those ridiculously cheap Chinatown buses and it's any wonder DC still get's mainline aircraft from NYC. You can drive NYC-DC in three hours, NYC-BOS is at least 4 possibly more.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1988 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5384 times:

B6 has a much larger operation at BOS than at IAD, so that would require more flights.


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User currently offlineDkny From Ethiopia, joined Mar 2004, 714 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5134 times:



Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):
DC is much closer driving wise than BOS, add on top of that Amtrak and those ridiculously cheap Chinatown buses and it's any wonder DC still get's mainline aircraft from NYC. You can drive NYC-DC in three hours, NYC-BOS is at least 4 possibly more.

No way, NYC-DC minimum 4 hours driving and NYC-BOS is 3 hours. I frequently travel NYC-DC I find it a lot easier to do the buses, Mega bus, Bolt bus, they are 15 usd each way, leather seats with a lot of legroom, free wifi. NYC-DC is always delayed. If you take into account that you have to get to the airport at least an hour before, fly for an hour (without delays) and another hour to and from the airport at departure and arrival cities, you might as well do the bus.


User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6441 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5099 times:



Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 2):
B6 has a much larger operation at BOS than at IAD, so that would require more flights.

Jet Blue has a larger operation at Boston BECAUSE it has MORE FLIGHTS, not because it requires more flights. That is like saying an elephant is bigger than a mouse because it requires it.


User currently offlineN770WD From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 126 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5071 times:



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 4):
Jet Blue has a larger operation at Boston BECAUSE it has MORE FLIGHTS, not because it requires more flights. That is like saying an elephant is bigger than a mouse because it requires it.

Yes, JetBlue has more local traffic FROM Boston and that drives connecting opportunities over JFK to the rest of the United States. IADJFK is mostly local plus some limited connections - think about the circuity issues.


User currently offlineWarreng24 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 707 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5047 times:



Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
My guess is because of BOS's central location compared to IAD.

Correct.

IAD is kind of a pain to get to. I-66 is a parking lot most of the day, so it takes a lot of time to get from downtown area to IAD.

Also, getting to IAD via mass transit is a real pain. There's the 5A bus from IAD to Rosslyn that can take from 30 min to well over an hour depending on traffic.
http://www.wmata.com/bus/timetables/dc/05a.pdf

And, there's the WashingtonFlyer bus (also traffic dependent)
http://www.washfly.com/flyer_bus_schedule.htm

Compare IAD's accessibility with BWI (the other DC-Area alternative to DCA). BWI is accessible via TWO non-road options (Amtrak and the MARC train) via the Union Station Metro stop. Additionally, there's the B30 bus that departs from the Greenbelt Metro station.

They've just started construction of a new Metro line to IAD. Once its completed in 2015 (to Dulles), I'm sure carriers will begin to cater to more O&D traffic at IAD.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Line_%28Washington_Metro%29


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16812 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5045 times:



Quoting Dkny (Reply 3):
No way, NYC-DC minimum 4 hours driving and NYC-BOS is 3 hours.

You have it backwards, DC is a 3 hour drive and Boston is at least 4.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineGxman From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 93 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5015 times:



Quoting STT757 (Reply 7):
You have it backwards, DC is a 3 hour drive and Boston is at least 4.

I have to disagree. The only way to make the DC-NYC drive in three hours is during the middle of the night and knowing that all of the state troopers are on a break. Due to a family situation I made the trip four times this summer, it was usually 4.5 - 5 hours with all of the traffic. IAD is another 20 miles further west than my house. I also was going to Bergen County, NJ which is closer than JFK.

Personally when I travel to NY for business, I prefer the DCA-LGA shuttle. I suspect that most Washingtonians would prefer DCA-LGA to IAD-JFK if they are flying and going into Manhattan. That is why JetBlue doesn't fly as much to DC as they do to Boston.



Steve
User currently offlineTharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1861 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4952 times:

Is there any public information on what % of passengers on either leg are local, and which are connecting?

Geographically, it makes more sense for BOS locals to connect via NY than DC ones (for most domestic flying), but with B6 having so many non-stop destinations from BOS, I wonder how much need there is for connecting.

Also, I'd agree that adding DCA to the mix would make a difference.

Quoting Gxman (Reply 8):
I have to disagree. The only way to make the DC-NYC drive in three hours is during the middle of the night and knowing that all of the state troopers are on a break.

Be that as it may, NY-BOS is also impossible to do in three hours. For comparing driving times on the two legs, it really comes down to exactly where you are starting and going.


User currently offlineStyles9002 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 526 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4949 times:

I drive between NYC and Boston frequently and from White Plains to Boston is 3 hours 15 minutes on a good day. From Manhattan to downtown Boston would be at least 4 hours, probably more.


It is what it is.
User currently offlineRichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4242 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4847 times:



Quoting Gxman (Reply 8):
The only way to make the DC-NYC drive in three hours is during the middle of the night and knowing that all of the state troopers are on a break. Due to a family situation I made the trip four times this summer, it was usually 4.5 - 5 hours with all of the traffic.

I agree.
Driving from, say, Manhattan to central Washington is at least a 4 hour proposition except during ideal traffic situations (i.e., middle of the night with no road construction).

Quoting STT757 (Reply 7):
You have it backwards, DC is a 3 hour drive and Boston is at least 4.

NYC-DC in 3 hours would be really moving!
Per mapquest (not the true authority but close enough), Midtown Manhattan (I picked on address on West 57th Street) to the White House is 230 miles. In three hours, that would be averaging about 75mph... not impossible but certainly not very realistic for most times of day.
Mapquest says this trip takes about 4 hours 15 minutes but you have to keep in mind this would also include some city driving.

Quoting Styles9002 (Reply 10):
I drive between NYC and Boston frequently and from White Plains to Boston is 3 hours 15 minutes on a good day. From Manhattan to downtown Boston would be at least 4 hours, probably more.

Per mapquest, the same midtown address above to a random Copley Square address in Boston is about 210 miles. In theory this should be quicker than driving to Washington but the roads are not any better or faster. Mapquest estimates just under 4 hours for this journey.

I think it is safe to say that NYC is approx. halfway between Washington DC and Boston. Obviously exactly where you are going in any of these cities will add/subtract some time and mileage. IAD to BOS, by road for example, would require an additional 25 miles.

The answer to the original poster's question has been spelled out on this thread: JetBlue has more operations at BOS than IAD; BOS airport is just more accessible to the city of Boston than IAD is to Washington.

Somebody mentioned the DCA slots - can we take guesses how long it will take before JetBlue finally gets some and starts Reagan service? My guess is inside of two years, perhaps sooner...



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineCOEWR From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 273 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4772 times:

I grew up in the NY/NJ area (Central Jersey to be exact). I lived very close to the Interstate and about 30 miles due West of Manhattan (right down Route 78). From my house to DC took 4 hours. No matter which way I went, or how fast I seemed to drive. That of course is assuming no rush hour traffic. I made this trip just about every weekend when I was living just outside of DC for an internship, so I know the route well. 4 hours is about par for the course...fastest I ever made it was 3.5 hours and I was really hauling that day...

On the flip side it takes me about 4-4.5 hours to get to BOS from my house in NJ...that said, I am about 45 minutes to an hour outside of Manhattan (based on the time of day and traffic flow)...so cut that off and you are right in that 3-4 hour range for that trip from Manhattan. Also keep in mind it takes me a good solid 1.5-2 hours to get to JFK...thats why I usually always take the train when I travel anywhere near NYC...

Back on topic, there are more flights to BOS over IAD for one simple reason (driving aside)...there are many more connecting opportunities from BOS since JFK is just about "on the way" anywhere else in the country. No sense to back track from IAD to JFK to go to places in the Southeast, and we all know B6 has a huge concentration of flights down there.

So additional connections probably fill the extra planes. I know if I lived in DC I wouldn't want to connect in JFK only to have to fly south over IAD again...besides the fact that B6 probably doesn't even offer those fares since it is not an efficient use of the seats.

-C


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21508 posts, RR: 56
Reply 13, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4705 times:



Quoting STT757 (Reply 7):
You have it backwards, DC is a 3 hour drive and Boston is at least 4.

No way. If you can drive DC-NY in four hours, that's an accomplishment. I routinely do NY-Boston in three and a half.

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 4):
Jet Blue has a larger operation at Boston BECAUSE it has MORE FLIGHTS, not because it requires more flights. That is like saying an elephant is bigger than a mouse because it requires it.

But even if you take the NYC flights out of the equation, B6 is bigger at BOS than IAD, which means they have a larger customer base to draw from when it comes to NYC flights. Thus, there are more of them than there are to IAD.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineKGAIflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4229 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4664 times:
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Quoting Richierich (Reply 11):
NYC-DC in 3 hours would be really moving!

Not to be disrespectful, but of course you'd be really moving.

Who these days does the New Jersey Turnpike or I-95 at 35mph?

When I do that trip by car, I do it after 11pm and have the 3 hr experience
-- even with a rest stop.   

[Edited 2009-08-17 11:06:40]

User currently offlineTharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1861 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4664 times:



Quoting COEWR (Reply 12):
there are many more connecting opportunities from BOS since JFK is just about "on the way" anywhere else in the country.

exactly.

and even if some place is on the way (starting IAD, connecting JFK), UA or US probably has a non-stop from IAD or DCA, so why bother connecting in JFK?

Quoting Mir (Reply 13):
I routinely do NY-Boston in three and a half.

Depends on where you mean by "NY" and "Boston". It can be 3 hours, it can be 5 hours, depending on the exact spots. So the time optimization between air, train and bus will be different for everybody.


User currently offlineDALMD88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2533 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4645 times:

The Chinatown, Mega and Bolt buses also run on the NYC-BOS route with very cheap fares, so I don't see that adding to the equation. Aclela runs very full on this route I've heard. My guess is there is just more traffic here than to IAD. I would bet most of it is O&D.

User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1988 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4539 times:



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 4):
Jet Blue has a larger operation at Boston BECAUSE it has MORE FLIGHTS, not because it requires more flights. That is like saying an elephant is bigger than a mouse because it requires it.

That was worded poorly.

Quoting Mir (Reply 13):
But even if you take the NYC flights out of the equation, B6 is bigger at BOS than IAD, which means they have a larger customer base to draw from when it comes to NYC flights. Thus, there are more of them than there are to IAD.

That's what I was getting at. With a larger customer base, BOS requires more flights than IAD.



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User currently offlineAussieindc From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 437 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4516 times:

WOW - I am totally envious of those who are able to do New York - D.C. v/versa in the 3hr time frame. Unless you are going from the Lincoln Tunnel to the top of the I-495 beltway around College Park or something, you're doing some serious low level flying.....

To do our trip from Alexandria 395-295 onto 95 to get to Staten Island, I leave between 3 and 4am so that I don't encounter too much traffic. Even that takes me 3 1/2 hrs on a good run without stopping and using the Ez Pass.


User currently offlineTharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1861 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4510 times:



Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 17):
With a larger customer base, BOS requires more flights than IAD.

But even if B6 was able to build up market share and presence at IAD, for the reasons given in this thread, you would maybe not see a ton of IAD-JFK flights. Only as much as the O&D would support.

DCA-JFK would be an interesting twist, on the other hand. Still O&D, but more of it.


User currently offlineContrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4503 times:

BOS with its many flights has turned into a large "focus city" aka Hub but the company doesn't like to use the word hub. Anyway, from what I see when doing the JFK-BOS flts, many more people these days are using BOS to connect from even a year ago. The early morning flts are mainly business people but as you get higher up into the day you see ALOT more connecting bags. SEA, LGB, MCO ect ect. So plain and simple, you bump up BOS as thats really a second hub compared to IAD which really is a "focus city" and not a Hub.


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User currently offlineTharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1861 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4470 times:



Quoting Contrails15 (Reply 20):
Anyway, from what I see when doing the JFK-BOS flts, many more people these days are using BOS to connect from even a year ago.

This is counter-intuitive. If BOS is built up with non-stops to almost as many destinations as JFK, wouldn't there be less need for people to connect through JFK, not more?

Or is it just that as B6's market share rises in BOS, some people will still find schedules/fares via JFK to be attractive compared to the non-stop from BOS?


User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6441 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4469 times:



Quoting Contrails15 (Reply 20):
The early morning flts are mainly business people but as you get higher up into the day you see ALOT more connecting bags. SEA, LGB, MCO ect ect. So plain and simple, you bump up BOS as thats really a second hub compared to IAD which really is a "focus city" and not a Hub.

Are you saying that passengers are connecting in BOS to get to SEA,LGB,MCO etc on Jet Blue or are they departing BOS and connecting in JFK to SEA,LGB,MCO etc. The city they are connecting in is the hub, the city they are flying from to connect is the spoke and if large enough could be called a focus city.


User currently offlineRichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4242 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4449 times:



Quoting KGAIflyer (Reply 14):
Not to be disrespectful, but of course you'd be really moving.

There are many sections where I'd be happy to do 35mph.... especially by the bridges and tunnels around NYC.
Leaving at night helps and perhaps makes 3 hours a little more realistic but that is hardly the yardstick to use.
By the same measure then, Manhattan to BOS would be under 3 hours (2 hr 30min or so) but that is under the most ideal of conditions. Realistically it can easily take 3hr 3min or 4 hrs to make that trip.

Quoting Aussieindc (Reply 18):
WOW - I am totally envious of those who are able to do New York - D.C. v/versa in the 3hr time frame. Unless you are going from the Lincoln Tunnel to the top of the I-495 beltway around College Park or something, you're doing some serious low level flying.....

Indeed.



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User currently offlineKGAIflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4229 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (4 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4414 times:
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Quoting Aussieindc (Reply 18):
To do our trip from Alexandria 395-295 onto 95 to get to Staten Island, I leave between 3 and 4am so that I don't encounter too much traffic. Even that takes me 3 1/2 hrs on a good run without stopping and using the Ez Pass.

A lot of this non-aviation discussion assumes we all will be traveling from *our* homes to *our* destination. And we all know that traveling from Alexandria VA to Forest Hills Queens will be differently affected by traffic and time-of-day than -- say -- Greenbelt MD to Madison Square Garden.

So . . . as everyone gives their experiences and travel times -- let's *not *assume they're talking about traveling from the same DC neighborhood to the same New York neighborhood.

Okay, back on topic -- when I travel NYC to BOS or the vice versa, I do it on the USAir Shuttle -- they have a much nicer Boston terminal. And some say it's way easier to get from LGA to Manhattan on public transportation.

Does anyone disagree?


25 Mir : Even nicer than the DL one? I could see that in LGA, but I would think that DL's Boston terminal would be nicer than US'. That I can't agree with. Th
26 Tharanga : If I'm aiming for Manhattan or NJ, I take Amtrak. I think total time, doorstep to doorstep, is less. If I'm aiming for Long Island, it would be B6 to
27 Contrails15 : Both really. Now BOS doesn't have nearly as many flts as JFK oviously however pax are using both cities to connect from. I consider BOS to be one of
28 RJpieces : Indeed. I wonder what expansion jetBlue might have at IAD...There is a lot of potential there.
29 AmtrakGuy : " target=_blank>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_...ro%29 Well, when the Metro line open to IAD, you can assure I will NOT take the Metro from Cap
30 Tharanga : Even that depends on precisely where in NoVA you are. There are points for which DCA and IAD are equally convenient. And I'd consider Arlington to be
31 Contrails15 : I never really hear anything about IAD. Its an important city for us but there really isn't any focus there right now, thats at least the feeling I g
32 KGAIflyer : The USAir *Shuttle* concourse and the USAir *mainline* concourse *are in different locations* The Shuttle concourse is much newer than the Delta Conc
33 KGAIflyer : Maybe it's the exotic lover in me -- but I take the Q33 from LGA into the Jackson Heights Transit Interchange -- cuts across the neighborhoods and ve
34 KGAIflyer : I know that works for some. But I live in Rockville MD and work in Germantown MD. If I leave work at 4pm -- it's actually easier to get to DCA since
35 Bingo : I feel that the people that take the bus to NYC will typically stay in the NYC area. When you figure the airport arrival time and security process, t
36 Mir : I did not. I knew the Shuttle part was newer than the rest, but I didn't think it was newer than the Delta terminal. You learn something every day...
37 Contrails15 : Thats what everyone says about IAD. Its out of the way and a pain to get too and out of. I've work in IAD once and never again. There is NOTHING arou
38 RJpieces : Indeed. I'm surprised WN and B6 don't expand there with more flying...There is plenty of room in Concourse B....
39 DCA-ROCguy : Given the relatively good weather and lack of ATC Delay, I'm kind of shocked that IAD is as underutilized as it is. Readers' Digest version of my theo
40 RJpieces : When was the last time B6 added a new route at IAD?
41 ScottB : The new section of US Airways' half of Terminal B at BOS is not newer than Terminal A; it was completed around 2000 or 2001. And having been in both,
42 KGAIflyer : That's why they have horse races. I've been in *all three* -- (1) Delta's (only) terminal, (2) USAir's mainline service terminal, and (3) USAir's Shu
43 DCA-ROCguy : When was the last time B6 added a new route at IAD? Don't know. I guess I was thinking more of what they actually have at IAD, regardless of whether i
44 RJpieces : That is quite a lot of connecting passengers, considering they have about 10-11 JFK-BOS flights daily! Do you have the O&D numbers for JFK-IAD?
45 Contrails15 : I can't give out numbers to you do to company policy but there not that high.
46 ScottB : They don't show up in the reports published by DOT, so their O&D traffic for JFK-IAD is probably under 200 passengers per day, each way. NYC-WAS is a
47 N766UA : I've done both. I've done both at 2AM, and I've done both in traffic. NYC to Boston is right around 4 hrs without traffic... upwards of 5 or 6 if you
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