Carlos1979 From Canada, joined Dec 2003, 108 posts, RR: 0 Posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 16935 times:
I was doing some spotting at AMS today. Around 13:45 an NW A330 took off from runway 24. The strange thing is that the landing gear did not retract. I watched the plane climb until it disappeared into a distant (at least 3 miles from the rotation point and a good couple of thousand feet up) and the landing gear remained down......wondering if this is an unusual occurrence or if its something not out of the ordinary for the 330......any feedback would be appreciated.
Sevenheavy From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 1165 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 16867 times:
This is usually to allow the brakes to cool before gear retraction.
If the aircraft has "hot" brakes on take off - through excessive use of brakes during taxi, or even on landing if the turn was short the crew will leave the gear down for longer than usual during the intial climb to allow the airflow to cool down the brakes before they retract the gear.
Often the crew will announce this to the passengers in case any get concerned by the increased noise.
AvroArrow From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 1046 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 15557 times:
Saw this same thing at YYZ a few weeks back with a UA A320, they delayed takeoff by almost 20 minutes holding short of 05. And when they did takeoff the gear stayed down until after they disappeared above the clouds. All because of hot brakes (according to the conversation on the scanner). Certainly not an everyday occurrence but apparently necessary from time to time.
Give me a mile of road and I can take you a mile. Give me a mile of runway and I can show you the world.
Jalapeno From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 15188 times:
I saw the same thing here at DFW when a Lufthansa A340 took off. It took off to the north, and I watched it fly all the way out past Lewisville with the gear remaining down. I thought they were gonna turn around and come back.
Jokestar From Australia, joined Apr 2008, 123 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 14537 times:
Yeh, i saw the exact same thing happen to an Aerolineas Argentinas A340-200 when it took off from my home airport of Sydney Bound for Auckland and Buenos Aires. I watched it until it disappeared and the landing gear were never retracted. I was waiting for it to come back. But it didnt.
All i could think of was. Another Aerolineas fault....
Gunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3516 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 12603 times:
When I flew AMS-SEA on NW in 2005, our A333 actually re-extended the landing gear during climbout over the sea because the brakes weren't cooling off fast enough. Is this common at AMS? Lots of heavies with full loads...
CX flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6705 posts, RR: 55
Reply 14, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 12329 times:
This can also happen if one of the brakes are not working for one of the wheels. Keeping the gear down allows the wheels to spin down before the gear is retracted, since twisting a gear sideways into the gear well during retraction while a wheel is spinning fast puts enormous strain on the gear.
UPSMD11 From United States of America, joined May 2003, 823 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 9852 times:
Flying out of XNA to MEM a few weeks ago we had this same issue on our NW CR2. The gear stayed down until we were well over 10000F. I was quite surprised but not sure if it was a faulty sensor or a hard landing and braking that caused it.
DH106 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 627 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 9541 times:
Obviously in these cases the brakes are considered too hot to be retracted safely, but presumably they're still cool enough to be able to perform to full RTO certification standards or the take off wouldn't be allowed?
...I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tanhauser Gate....
Azjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4176 posts, RR: 26
Reply 17, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 8747 times:
UPSMD11 - you're not even supposed to take off with "hot" break temps on the CRJ200. Depending on weight and other variables, if your brake temps go into the "white" or "red" zone with their corresponding number, there would be a certain waiting time to cool the breaks on the ground. And then when you eventually take off, there is no procedure to cool them in the air. So... your Pinnacle pilots were likely having some other issue.
Regarding the OP - I had this happen on a NWA 330 once. It sounded very routine and the crew did a nice job explaining the situation.
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12276 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 8540 times:
For most airplanes with steel brakes, they are considered hot at 500 C and above, and in the cautionary range at around 400 C. I don't know what the temp ranges are for carbon brakes. But, why would you TO with brakes at or near the cautionary range? A RTO would blow tires, or at least melt the tire fuse plugs so they deflate.
that is what happens when the MLG Overheat loops are not working. The MEL procedure calla for the gear to be down for ten mins. You thought the 200. Climbed poorly. Try it nearly full in the summer with the gear down at 17000ft.
YZFOO7F From Canada, joined May 2005, 158 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 8485 times:
Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 13): When I flew AMS-SEA on NW in 2005, our A333 actually re-extended the landing gear during climbout over the sea because the brakes weren't cooling off fast enough. Is this common at AMS? Lots of heavies with full loads...
Sort of off topic a bit, but is there a maximum gear down speed? I assume there would be for most aircraft. Does anyone know what it is for the A330?
What would be the detriment of putting the gear down above 21,000 feet? Not like you'd ever need to, but if say your speed was below 250 kts at a high altitude, what effect does it have when the gear is lowered?