Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Delta Pulling Out Of Kiev?  
User currently offlineJfk787nyc From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 812 posts, RR: 2
Posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 9759 times:

Can someone please advise if Delta is pulling out of Kiev and what other cites Delta is dropping in the near future.

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 3015 posts, RR: 26
Reply 1, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 9636 times:

KBP is becoming seasonal, they aren't pulling out. There was a thread recently on all cities that were eliminated/added/seasonal. I know SVO is becoming seasonal from ATL as well.

Aeroflot777


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4973 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 9455 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

JFK-KBP is being suspended this winter and is currently scheduled to return on March 28, 2010.

Other winter 09/10 suspensions are:
JFK-SNN
JFK-PSA
JFK-VLC
JFK-AGP
ATL-SVO
ATL-PRG
ATL-ARN

Most of the above are currently scheduled to return at the end of March 2010 with the exception of JFK-PSA which has been pushed out to further in the spring.


User currently offlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2727 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 9315 times:

Don't all these seasonal reductions lead to a loss of business travelers and a summer season of mostly low-yield traffic?

User currently offlineOneskyjet From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 85 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 9085 times:

Where are they going to put all the excess capacity created by these pulldowns? Florida?

User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 9071 times:



Quoting Oneskyjet (Reply 4):

Where are they going to put all the excess capacity created by these pulldowns? Florida?

hard stand LOL



yep.
User currently offlineN757KW From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 437 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 8972 times:



Quoting Oneskyjet (Reply 4):
Where are they going to put all the excess capacity created by these pulldowns? Florida?

Located on the South Cargo Ramp in ATL.  tongue 

N757KW



"What we've got here, is failure to communicate." from Cool Hand Luke
User currently offlineAviateur From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1360 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 8942 times:

Kiev is a *very* popular destination with DL crews. It will be sorely missed, even in the cold winter months. Flights are always packed in economy, but yields from BusinessElite are poor. Bucharest was a similar story.


Patrick Smith is an airline pilot, air travel columnist and author
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4973 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 7712 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Aviateur (Reply 7):
Flights are always packed in economy, but yields from BusinessElite are poor. Bucharest was a similar story.

That's the story with many of the Eastern European destinations, and OTP has been worse than KBP. The global economic crisis has hit Eastern Europe particularly hard and premium traffic has dropped significantly. At least PRG (due to OK's pullout) and BUD will still operate through the winter; JFK-SVO will also be daily this winter due to the seasonal suspension of ATL-SVO.


User currently offline7673mech From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 744 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7525 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Oneskyjet (Reply 4):
Where are they going to put all the excess capacity created by these pulldowns? Florida?

Heavy maintenance and Caribbean/South America.


User currently offlineRbgso From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 599 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6596 times:



Quoting Oneskyjet (Reply 4):
Where are they going to put all the excess capacity created by these pulldowns? Florida?

Agree with heavy maintenance for some. Others will be parked IMHO. I doubt DL is going to add a bunch of capacity on low-yield leisure routes.


User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7564 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days ago) and read 6265 times:



Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 3):
Don't all these seasonal reductions lead to a loss of business travelers and a summer season of mostly low-yield traffic?

While they lose they direct business traveler they will move them on their own planes still to europe just via CDG or AMS.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23302 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days ago) and read 6144 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 11):
While they lose they direct business traveler they will move them on their own planes still to europe just via CDG or AMS.

...but that is hard to do. The competitive advantage was the n/s flight. If I'm going to have to connect anyway, I might as well do so on BA or LH.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineAirGabon From Switzerland, joined Dec 2003, 892 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days ago) and read 6048 times:

Since when DL flies to VLC? I knew about AGP flights but not VLC. With a 757? How is the average load?

User currently offlineGecmd11 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 4 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5867 times:



Quoting N757KW (Reply 6):
Quoting Oneskyjet (Reply 4):
Where are they going to put all the excess capacity created by these pulldowns? Florida?

Located on the South Cargo Ramp in ATL. tongue

N757KW

Tell me about it... i counted 4 x 772 this morning with 2 x 767 all on south cargo


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4973 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (5 years 4 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5763 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 12):
but that is hard to do. The competitive advantage was the n/s flight. If I'm going to have to connect anyway, I might as well do so on BA or LH.

Only if you're originating from NYC.
KBP, for example, gets a lot of traffic from SEA. Now instead of flying SEA-JFK-KBP on DL, one can choose to go on KL (SEA-AMS-KBP) or AF (SEA-CDG-KBP). Given the JV between DL and AFKL, DL would get a share of that revenue anyway...


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4973 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (5 years 4 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5748 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting AirGabon (Reply 13):
Since when DL flies to VLC? I knew about AGP flights but not VLC. With a 757? How is the average load?

DL started JFK-VLC with the 752 4x weekly this June. Loads were slow in the initial part of June but picked up towards the latter part of the month and have obviously been quite strong during peak season in July and August. Yields of course, like everywhere else, are not great.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23302 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (5 years 4 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5710 times:



Quoting Panamair (Reply 15):
Only if you're originating from NYC.

Not really. For many small to medium-sized markets east of the Mississippi, JFK was the only one-stop option to a lot of these secondary European markets.

Let's look at the 5 types of passengers on these flight...

1) NYC originators. As you point out, DL is going to lose much of its advantage.

2) People in relatively large cities (Chicago, Los Angeles, Miami). DL is going to struggle here; the direct US-Europe link was almost certainly a competitive advantage for some passengers. Now, DL has no advantage over other carriers in these markets.

3) People in markets with relatively little TATL service (SEA, PDX, PIT if DL ever starts it). In those places where DL/AF is one of the few TATL players, their advantage will continue. This group is small, but it's there.

4) People in small markets in the western part of the country. No effect. These have always required a double-connect to get to secondary European markets and will continue to.

5) People in small markets in the eastern half of the country. Many of these pax have no lost their only single-connecting itinerary, and DL will now fight with all other carriers for double-connecting itineraries.

In 3 of these 5 ((1), (2), and (5)), DL is going to lose the advantage it had.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4973 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (5 years 4 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5663 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 17):
2) People in relatively large cities (Chicago, Los Angeles, Miami). DL is going to struggle here; the direct US-Europe link was almost certainly a competitive advantage for some passengers. Now, DL has no advantage over other carriers in these markets.

Disagree....Why would a direct link from JFK be a competitive advantage for people from ORD or LAX or MIA...it's all still one stop for them no matter where they connect.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23302 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (5 years 4 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5643 times:



Quoting Panamair (Reply 18):
Why would a direct link from JFK be a competitive advantage for people from ORD or LAX or MIA...it's all still one stop for them no matter where they connect.

There are people who like their international flight first or last. DL offered a different product than others here, one that cut out security screening going east but added immigration going west. That trade was probably attractive to some pax. DL was already splitting those that wanted to do the TATL flight and an intra-Europe flight with OALs.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineMdavies06 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2009, 387 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 4 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4915 times:

I am not sure what sort of LF and yield DL had on JFK-KBP but there are a lot of things that limit the flights potential for DL:

1. KBP is located right at the far eastern corner of Eastern Europe, so a lot of traffic on this flight cater for pax. travelling to and from Ukraine only. There are of course Moldova and Belarus to the north+south of Ukraine, but how many people travel between Moldova and Belarus and the US? There are also Russia to the east of Ukraine but Moscow is already on DL's network.

2. The main terminal B in KBP is very small and has only several contact gates, and this is the main international gateway for Kiev! Clearly not geared for large scale pax movements. The check in area for this terminal is very small, you'd feel like you walked into a crowded train station lobby rather than an airport terminal!

3. If LH/AF/KL/BA only serve KBP around 1-4 flights daily each on A320, demand for TATL may not be sustainable, and

4. DL is not alone in JFK-KBP. There is also Aerosvit.


User currently offlineAviateur From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1360 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (5 years 4 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4652 times:

KBP and OTP are both interesting cities for layovers. KBP is going to seasonal, but apparently OTP is being cut permanently. That's too bad.

Here are some photos if you're innerested...

Kiev:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/globetrodden/sets/72157594378848476/

Bucharest:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/globetrodden/sets/72157604375233375/


PS



Patrick Smith is an airline pilot, air travel columnist and author
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Delta Pulling Out Of DFW? posted Sun Aug 1 2004 06:31:24 by Kanebear
Delta Pulling Out Of Slc? posted Thu Apr 15 1999 20:45:29 by NYC Int'l
Is Delta Really Pulling Out Of Ord? posted Fri Nov 22 2002 12:52:57 by Boxsmasher
Is XJ Pulling Out Of FOD (Fort Dodge, Iowa)? posted Thu Jun 4 2009 19:19:45 by Evanbu
BD Pulling Out Of LBA? posted Fri Apr 10 2009 07:44:54 by Sam1987
Delta 747 Out Of Hangar At VCV posted Sat Dec 13 2008 11:48:31 by FX1816
AA And DL Both Pulling Out Of Asap Program posted Fri Dec 5 2008 13:37:23 by Apodino
NWA Pulling Out Of DFW In 60 Days? posted Sat Nov 1 2008 14:36:52 by N839MH
Is DL Pulling Out Of LGW? posted Wed Jul 16 2008 18:44:48 by Swissair4ever
Why Are Carriers Pulling Out Of OAK? posted Mon Jun 23 2008 13:38:52 by IrishAyes