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Snapshot: OAG Trivia 1948  
User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6867 posts, RR: 7
Posted (5 years 2 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1860 times:

Another auction, so more trivia, this time from the June 1948 "OAG", which wasn't called that just yet.

PA still has a transatlantic DC-4 six days a week, LGA-YQX-SNN-BRU-FRA-PRG, along with their Constellations. 17 Constellations a week LGA to LHR (no nonstops). I didn't know they flew DC-3s in Europe-- they had one daily from LHR to Vienna with stops. They're all DC-4 across the Pacific-- two a week from Shanghai to California, and they also show a weekly CNAC DC-4. Six daily DC-4s MIA-HAV.

TWA has two flights a week Chicago to Cairo: one Constellation, one DC-4. Ditto Washington to Cairo. No domestic DC-4s, except the DL interchange flight. TWA has recently begun flying to Baltimore, Santa Fe, Worcester and Scranton/Wilkes Barre. UA is about to start Baltimore-- that's Harbor Field, which also gets EA, AA, Colonial, Capital, and three BOAC Constellations a week to BDA. I was surprised to see Harbor Field only opened in November 1941.

BSAA has five flights a week LHR to South America-- doesn't say whether they're Tudors or Yorks or Lancastrians. FAMA has a weekly flight from LHR and another from Rome. Aerovias Guest 2/week MEX-MAD.

AA is just starting CV240 flights, so they've still got lots of DC-3s (and DC-4s-- Cearley says they were all gone by the end of 1948). UA has DC-6 flights SFO-BUR-LNK-LGA and back, and SFO-LNK-LGA and back-- I thought those non-Chicago one-stops ended when the DC-6s arrived.

Looks like UA, NW and WA are all flying out of SEA, but PA doesn't say which airport their DC-4s to Alaska leave from-- probably Boeing Field. Probably West Coast was at BFI too?

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineTharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1865 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1820 times:

fascinating. are SNN and LHR the only points of entry to europe for PA?

User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6867 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1810 times:

What's a "point of entry"?

User currently offlineCactus739 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2448 posts, RR: 31
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1806 times:



Quoting Timz (Reply 2):
What's a "point of entry"?

the point where they enter Europe would be my guess



You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
User currently offlineTharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1865 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1801 times:



Quoting Cactus739 (Reply 3):

the point where they enter Europe would be my guess

exactly. where the plane first lands in europe.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25626 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1789 times:



Quoting Timz (Thread starter):
Probably West Coast was at BFI too?

West Coast (and successor Air West after the merger with Bonanza and Pacific) didn't move from BFI to SEA until around 1970, probably about the time they became Hughes Airwest.


User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6867 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1689 times:

PA's eastward transatlantic flights were the above DC-4, plus a cargo flight, plus Constellations as follows

10/week LGA-YQX-LHR (two onward to Calcutta)
daily LGA-BOS-YQX-SNN-LHR
3/week LGA-SMA-LIS (one continues to S Africa)
1/week LGA-SMA-DKR and onward


User currently offlineAvConsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1657 times:



Quoting Timz (Reply 6):
10/week LGA-YQX-LHR (two onward to Calcutta)
daily LGA-BOS-YQX-SNN-LHR
3/week LGA-SMA-LIS (one continues to S Africa)
1/week LGA-SMA-DKR and onward

OK, I admit my ignorance to the piston days. What type of range are we talking with the DC-4 or Connie's?


User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6867 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1645 times:

PA did claim to schedule nonstop 749s LGA-LHR at some point in the late 1940s-- but maybe they never claimed that with 049s. In about 1949 the Dutch got into some dispute with India and KLM had to detour for a short time-- but they continued flying to Batavia via Mauritius, which is a pretty good trick, especially if they did it both ways.

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25626 posts, RR: 22
Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1636 times:



Quoting Timz (Reply 8):
PA did claim to schedule nonstop 749s LGA-LHR at some point in the late 1940s

If they did, they were certainly stretching the truth to the breaking point.


User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6867 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1561 times:

They could make it nonstop some unknown percentage of the time-- enough so that some PA timetables explicitly claim the eastward flight was "NONSTOP". No reason to make such a claim if it weren't true on at least a fair minority of the trips-- it's not like the passengers were demanding a nonstop and would turn up their noses at anything that stopped at Gander. What other airline would such passengers choose?

You remember PA's inaugural 049 flew nonstop to Hurn; dunno if any other 049 trips did.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1544 times:

I find threads like these very interesting.

To put a little kick/ spin on things. How much would a ticket (average ticket) cost to fly say:

Quoting Timz (Thread starter):
LGA-YQX-SNN-BRU-FRA-PRG

or

Quoting Timz (Reply 6):
LGA-BOS-YQX-SNN-LHR




What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6867 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1533 times:

As I recall it was $375 one way NY to London. Just one class then.

User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12516 posts, RR: 35
Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1519 times:



Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 11):
I find threads like these very interesting.

Ditto - and thanks, Timz, for creating the thread!

My dear old Granny, God rest her, used to tell me how she and my grandad - and their kids (including my mother) used to go out to Shannon and they'd see all the old aircraft - Sabena, Swissair (remember them!); of course, she wouldn't have known one plane from another, but they were great days. A few years after that, my grandfather, who was a garda (police) sergeant in a nearby village, was involved in the rescue operation after a KLM Connie crashed into the mudflats shortly after t/o from Shannon.

1948 was a very interesting year for Irish aviation - and not in a good way. Aer Lingus expanded quite significantly after the war years and made a significant loss; back then, they were operating DC3s and Vikings. The former Irish PM, Dr. Garret Fitzgerald, who was an economic planner for EI at the time, once said that he persuaded the airline to give up the SNN-Paris (Le Bourget) route after no pax were carried in about two months!

It was also remembered because that was the year that EI planned to begin its t/a operation, using five Connies; the airline was all ready to start the route, but there was an election and the incoming coalition govt cancelled the route and the five Connies were sold to BOAC. Many EI pilots who trained on the Connies later went on to other carriers; quite a few ended up with KLM. From a "heart" point of view, it was a real setback, but from a "head" point of view, it was the right decision; t/a operations didn't actually start until 1958 and even then they took a while to get going.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1472 times:



Quoting Timz (Reply 12):
As I recall it was $375 one way NY to London. Just one class then.

My, airfares sure haven't changed much...then again, $375 so long ago is many thousands of dollars today I guess.

BTW, looking at the "similar topics" section, you seemed to do this quite often. Hopefully we can see a weekly thing again time permiting along with Enilria's weekly OAG update  Smile



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6867 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1438 times:

I remembered wrong: NY-London was $350 one way. SF-Tokyo was $650, SF-Sydney was only $640 for some reason. Round trip was 10% less than double one-way; no 15% US tax on international flights.

User currently offlineTharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1865 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1426 times:



Quoting Timz (Reply 12):
As I recall it was $375 one way NY to London. Just one class then.

that's $2900 in today's dollars, roughly, if i'm not mistaken.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1393 times:



Quoting Tharanga (Reply 16):
that's $2900 in today's dollars, roughly, if i'm not mistaken.

Well then for fares on the higher side in coach, they can be as much as $1200 or $1300 round trip so that's a huge difference I guess.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2244 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1318 times:



Quoting Kaitak (Reply 13):
A few years after that, my grandfather, who was a garda (police) sergeant in a nearby village, was involved in the rescue operation after a KLM Connie crashed into the mudflats shortly after t/o from Shannon.

If you want to learn more about this crash, be sure to get a copy of MacArthur Job's excellent "Air Disaster, Volume 4", which has a chapter about the crash and recovery effort. Apparently, some of the passengers died due to asphyxiation from petroleum fumes - but a much more serious disaster was averted when one of the survivors tried to light a cigarette, but his quick thinking seat mate grabbed his lighter out of his hands before he could ignite the lighter, and the aircraft!



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