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Why Are Aircraft Referred To As 'ships' In The US?  
User currently offlineEDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 11117 times:

The topic heading really says it all....

I've always been curious about this rather inappropriate description.

70 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePilotboi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2366 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 11042 times:

Cus it's fun.  Smile

But really...I think it's just the fact that aviation got a lot of it's terms from the maritime industry. For example:

Nautical Mile
Knot
Abeam (literally meant 'on the beam of the ship')
Aft
Beacon
Bearing
Captain
Cabin
Hull
Starboard/Port (not to mention the green and red nav lights)
Trim
Yaw


User currently offlineLeej From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 293 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 11028 times:

Not inappropriate at all. Ship/shipping just refers to the vessel and the carriage of goods or people to a destination - not unique in the nautical term to which i assume you think it refers to? Think about it - you can ship by FedEx, travel by airship, one day by space ship, shape up and ship out! I would have thought though that the origin is certainly nautical though - port/starbord, knots etc.

User currently offlineBohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2715 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 10892 times:



Quoting EDICHC (Thread starter):
I've always been curious about this rather inappropriate description.

Why is it inappropriate?


User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3594 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 10841 times:

Considering that alot of the original international passenger air transport was done by flying boats, I don't think it is inappropriate.

Why is the camel know in the middle east as the "ship of the desert"?


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 10832 times:

It's been summed up to I won't add my two cents.

Quoting EDICHC (Thread starter):

What inappropriate?



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineDaBuzzard From Canada, joined Sep 2007, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 10832 times:



Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 1):
But really...I think it's just the fact that aviation got a lot of it's terms from the maritime industry. For example:

It did indeed  Smile

Add in:

Steward(ess)
Purser
Keel
Rudder
Bulkhead
Cockpit
Galley
Tiller
Wake

The list goes on and on and on........


User currently onlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6070 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 10796 times:



Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 1):
Starboard/Port (not to mention the green and red nav lights)

It's pretty rare that anyone will actually say that in reference to the left/right of an aircraft. The same can be said about other nautical terms such as 'going Ashore (Aground,)' 'Embarking,' 'Mooring,' and 'Muster.'

Quite frankly, aviation owes a lot to shipping, and ships on the sea in regards to navigation, but that doesn't mean that aviation has to be an airborne clone of shipping.



Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlineTrigged From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 10774 times:

It is the same as shipping, it just uses aerodynamic principles as opposed to hydrodynamic principles. All moving through fluid, one is compressible, the other is not.

User currently offlineOldeuropean From Germany, joined May 2005, 2091 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 10774 times:



Quoting Bohica (Reply 3):
Why is it inappropriate?

AFAIK it is not used in any other language.



Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
User currently offlineExFATboy From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2974 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 10756 times:



Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 1):
But really...I think it's just the fact that aviation got a lot of it's terms from the maritime industry. For example:



Quoting DaBuzzard (Reply 6):

Add in:

Don't forget the ever-annoying "stow"...

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 7):
'Embarking,'

Actually, I wish the airline industry would use "Embark" and "Disembark", instead of ear-grating stuff like "deplane" and "the boarding process"..would be much cleaner.


User currently offlineOldeuropean From Germany, joined May 2005, 2091 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 10746 times:



Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 9):
AFAIK it is not used in any other language.

Exept perhaps the German "Luftschiff", whereas it is a Zeppelin.



Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
User currently offlineBanjo76 From Italy, joined Apr 2008, 189 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 10729 times:

From www.askoxford.com

Quote:

ship

• noun 1 a large seagoing boat. 2 a sailing vessel with a bowsprit and three or more square-rigged masts. 3 a spaceship. 4 N. Amer. an aircraft.

• verb (shipped, shipping) 1 transport on a ship or by other means. 2 make (a product) available for purchase. 3 (of a sailor) take service on a ship. 4 (of a boat) take in (water) over the side. 5 take (oars) from the rowlocks and lay them inside a boat. 6 fix (a rudder, mast, etc.) in place on a ship.


Maybe to a british speaker that might sound inappropriate or at least not common.

Banjo


User currently offlinePygmalion From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 966 posts, RR: 38
Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 10707 times:

Most early commercial aviation were flying boats as well. Clippers from Pan Am etc.


Early in aviation the only large landing areas were lakes and waterways. Landing fileds made of dirt just cant take the loading from larger craft. it wasn't until later on that fields were improved to take larger loads, WWII really.

Also the folks doing the early airplane designs were for the most part boat/ship engineers. Most of the part names on airplanes come from ships as well. Longerons, stringers, frames, waterline, buttocklines, stations ribs etc.


User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3594 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 10538 times:

[quote=EDICHC,reply=0]The topic heading really says it all....

For the same reason some people call the trunk of a car by the same name as a piece of footware, or the hood of a car the same name as a frilly girl's head covering.

I would think those are much more inappropriate.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15780 posts, RR: 27
Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 10526 times:

Most of aviation terminology seems to have come from either the maritime industry or railroads.

There was a somewhat similar discussion in this thread.

Usage Of The Terms "upgauge / Downgauge" (by Kleinsim Aug 17 2009 in Civil Aviation)?threadid=4521239&searchid=4521245&s=upguage#ID4521245



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 10515 times:

I never call an aircraft a "ship". To me, it does not make sense. The aircraft does not go into water (except for the US Airways A320 in the Hudson  duck  ) at all. I always call and aircraft by its true name: an aircraft.


A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25409 posts, RR: 86
Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 10491 times:
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Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 17):
I never call an aircraft a "ship". To me, it does not make sense.

So - what do you call an airship?  Smile

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 10462 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 18):
So - what do you call an airship? Smile

Blimps!  Wink



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25409 posts, RR: 86
Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 10445 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 19):
Blimps!

Good one!  Smile

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineMSYtristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 10419 times:

Juan Trippe and Pan Am also contributed a great deal to this...from what I recall it was Pan Am which started using the terms "Knots" and "Bells" in an aviation context. The airline also introduced the naval-style attire for the pilots, and of course, the name "Clipper" for their aircraft.

User currently onlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6070 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 10397 times:

Now, to fair technically accurate, airships of old were true to definition, in that they carried another aircraft onboard for evacuation purposes, on the premise that a boat cannot be called a ship unless it is large enough to carry another vessel. In this regard then, the Guppy could technically be called a ship, because it carried parts, including whole fuselages for other aircraft in its belly.


Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15780 posts, RR: 27
Reply 22, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 10322 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 17):
So - what do you call an airship?



Quoting Mariner (Reply 17):
Blimps!

All blimps are airships, but not all airships are blimps.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineJunction From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 769 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 10307 times:

I don’t know of anyone who calls a plane a ship (except certain airline personnel who know them by tail number), but everyone including Europeans use nautical terms in aviation don’t they? (port, starboard, rudder, stow, etc,)

User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 10280 times:



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 16):
I never call an aircraft a "ship". To me, it does not make sense. The aircraft does not go into water (except for the US Airways A320 in the Hudson ) at all. I always call and aircraft by its true name: an aircraft.

Guess everyone and everywhere's different. In ramp class, were were taught to say ship for all a/c movement/ activities. Especially over the radio for some reason. "Ship 636 is ready for the D28 T".



What gets measured gets done.
25 Borism : Nautical terms are used with regards to aviation in many other languages besides English. We certainly use some in Russian. Plane is called Vozdushno
26 FlyASAGuy2005 : I will give you that. To me, I saw it more on the MTC and ramp side. I always got a chuckle when the gate agent you say "airplane 712...". Steward(es
27 KELPkid : A flight in my dirigible, anyone?
28 Micstatic : I think ship is appropriate. The worst is when people say finals as in short finals.
29 Suprazachair : I always say "aircraft" or "tail": Aircraft 424, Tail (number) 424.
30 Trigged : We used to, but in the 80's it became politically incorrect to do so. Same for the reason for the change from secretary to adminstrative assistant, m
31 TransIsland : Not that I know all the terms mentioned in German... but... Kabine Kapitaen Steward(ess) Ruder are also being used in German. Probably a whole lot mo
32 Spectre242 : What about aeroNAUTICAL? Ocean liner - Dreamliner? Not only Captains, but also First Officers, Navigators, etc Also, partly as a result of the strong
33 BMI727 : The US Navy operated two airships, the Macon and the Akron, as flying aircraft carriers. Each one carried a complement of Curtiss F9C Sparrowhawk fig
34 ABpositive : If it leaves an airPORT it must be an airSHIP
35 HorizonGirl : I've always wondered about this one, but it makes so much sense now. Devon
36 AvroArrow : Don't forget that the nautical references used in aviation continue all the way to Star Trek!!
37 Lightsaber : Do recall that in the early days of aviation, well run airlines were trying to distance themselves from the 'barn stormers' and stunt yahoos that wer
38 Antoniemey : Some people today would consider "Steward/Stewardess" politically incorrect... Ah... now we get to my area of expertise... a large part of the naval
39 ThirtyEcho : The word "blimp" stands for "airship Category B, limp."
40 Smi0006 : I have only ever herd Deplane in the U.S when I was at flying with QFLink its was always Boarding and Disembark (although never embark funily enough)
41 Decoder : As I see it most people here have misunderstood the question. It wasn't about why nautical terms are used in aviation, it was about a single word that
42 ThirtyEcho : And why is a cookie called a "biscuit" in the UK? A biscuit is a lump of bread served split in half with lots of butter on it and the possible additi
43 TheCol : I've never heard anybody call an aircraft a "ship". Referring to an aircraft as a "bird" makes more sense to me.
44 KGAIflyer : Geez guys. I'm going to recommend all of you to Garrison Keillor for his Association of Professional English Majors.
45 Post contains links Borism : As I said, http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Воздушное_судно Why!? What is aircraft's waterline? I don't recall hearing it...
46 BMI727 : It's the Z portion of the coordinate (?) system for planes. The wingspan is the wing station or butt line, The length of the plane is fuselage statio
47 Jonjonnl : It's the height at which you'll find the cabin floor. In Portuguese you use these two words: 'embarcar' and 'desembarcar'. However, most passengers w
48 PBIflyguy : My Mother-In-Law ??
49 Fn1001 : Why do we say spaceships, will we "sail" to the moon? The aircraft ant the ship are moving inside a fluid, water or air, but the spaceship...
50 SEPilot : I think Juan Trippe had much more to do with this than most people realize. He was fascinated by all things nautical; he was the first to call the pi
51 NZAA : Ship is just one of many nautical terms taken from the days of the flying boat.
52 Jgarrido : Reminds me of a story of my mom's friend. She was flying with her daughter who was about 4 or 5. One of the flight attendants came with a trash bag a
53 SWABrian : It's funny that the OP is a victim of what he accuses others of engaging. The title of the thread itself is a nautical reference. Craft refer to boats
54 Md80fanatic : Actually "flying" is the inappropriate term. Airplanes "float" on a very low density fluid. Airplanes adjust their buoyancy (lift) by moving panels in
55 Spacecadet : What, you mean in all those English-speaking middle eastern countries? This is either a translation error, or an attempt at a turn of phrase by a wes
56 Borism : Aircraft Captain is too a little more than someone who simply turns the wheel and adjusts the throttle, yet we still call them Captain. I've research
57 Lightsaber : The waterline is the height of the cabin floor. There is an x (axial distance), y (distance from aircraft centerline, and z coordinate (height above/
58 SEPilot : You may be right; unfortunately he is no longer with us to ask. We can speculate on his motives till the cows come home, but we can't know for sure w
59 BMI727 : I'm not being difficult, just being more specific. As I understand it, a dirigible is a lighter than air craft that can be steered and propelled, as
60 SWABrian : No a Zepplin is a brand name like Boeing, Airbus, etc. It primarily refers to rigid airships built by the Zepplin Company or by GoodYear under a lice
61 BMI727 : You are right, I should have made the distinction.
62 Rongotai : There are two historical strands that explain this wide use of nautical measures and terminology in aviation. 1. In the very earliest days nautical te
63 Ba6590 : Actually DLPMMM is right, camels are refered to as the "ship of the dessert" in Arabic. This was due to their ability to cross long distances through
64 Viscount724 : Should also keep in mind that Pan Am's original routes used flying boats as many of the destinations served in the Caribbean and Latin America didn't
65 EDICHC : Well that is a matter of perception. To me a ship is a large, heavy, relatively slow moving object that never leaves the water unless for major servi
66 MEA-707 : Why do Europeans refer to aircraft as 'bus' . At least ships, think of Pan Am's Clippers names, have something magical and globbetrotting around them.
67 Apodino : We have a maintenance controller at my company who has been with the company a long time. Often times Pilots will radio write ups and refer to themsel
68 StuckinNog : I remember reading that in the UK, the Board of Trade (who oversaw shipping) was the only body prepared to take responsibility for the fledgling airli
69 Rafaelyyz : Well, it's certainly better than refering to it as "she".
70 SEPilot : Perhaps, but you overlook the other reasons for Juan Trippe adopting nautical terms, most specifically his love of all things nautical. But we certai
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